Banned for a bad joke...
So, 05/15/2011 - 01:42
Ok ok... i know my Bazaar title: "Auctioning Teslacoil" was definitely misleading into thinking that i was selling off my account.
But basically, i just wanted someone to take over//share my account, cause im thinking of quitting...
Is there anyway that i can leave my account to somebody without breaking the TOS? It would be quite a waste if its not utilised...
So, 05/15/2011 - 03:47
#2
oh darn, sorry to see you go,
oh darn, sorry to see you go, never got to work with you in game. I remember seeing your name in one of the team up threads.
oh but hey feel free to give me all your crowns and energy 8D
[is this Spiral Knight's first beg for stuff from someone who is leaving post??]
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:55
#3
From my understanding and
From my understanding and last time I checked, it's not against the ToS to share your account for FREE, with someone who has obtained a licence to play according to point 5 of the ToS. As long as they are permitted access to the game already (6.2.). (edit: update: if your password counts as disclosed by telling it to someone trusted, then you need to notify OOO of this (9.))
Try finding a point ruling out account sharing explicitly, or a point linking the licence to play, granted by the ToS, exactly to the account registered. Then it might actually be forbidden. (couldn't find either yet)
So, 05/15/2011 - 04:30
#4
you do not have a license to
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:08
#5
The ToS fails to mention the
The ToS fails to mention the need of a licence to use any particular account though. A licence to "access the Site and to use Spiral Knights" should be enough to use any other person's account with the owner's consent. But I'm no law professor and don't live in the usa. So it might be implied and legaly cemented by precedent case. (Link please)
edit: every player needs their own licence to access the game clearly (stated in 5.; the wording of "reminds you" clearly refers to this, as that's all the reader could be reminded off). Furthermore the player is "encouraged" to maintain the confidentiality of your password. (he's solely responsible for the associated account after all) Not required. A closed circle of people knowing the password doesn't constitute "lost, stolen, (disclosed)(I'm not a native speaker so I can't make a definite statement on the implications of this one)* or compromised" either.
*you have to notify 3rings in that case that you disclosed your password then.
Or if somewhere somehow that licence and each particular player account are linked explicitly, like I noted before. (link please)
Not saying that's an unlikely case, I just couldn't find such a passage yet.
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:07
#6
You know what OOO means,
You know what OOO means, don't try to dance around it. More over, all your hair-splitting doesn't make any difference, OOO can do anything they want and can define basically any term the way the see fit. Your only recourse is to sue them in court, but based on the broad powers granted in the ToS, you probably will have a hard time even finding a lawyer to take such a weak case, let alone have a chance to win.
The ToS isn't that long and contains mostly obvious stuff. Read it.
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:28
#7
Indeed OOO reserves the right
Indeed OOO reserves the right to terminate your licence, account, their service, etc, at any point for any reason.
Rather than reading things into the ToS that aren't there you should actually stick to the text.
edit: Either they allow account sharing on the outlaid conditions or the ToS needs a revision is all I'm saying.
(edit2: "Three Rings encourages you to maintain the confidentiality of your password" perhaps switch the "encourages" for a "demands"; which would, of course, change the whole thing from what it means now)
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:33
#8
Morons
Section 6.2:
You agree not to permit any other person (including but not limited to a former member whose account Three Rings has terminated) to access Spiral Knights, or create or provide any other means through which the Games may be played by anyone besides you (e.g., through server emulators);
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:56
#9
I refered to that part
I refered to that part already... "As long as they are permitted access to the game already (6.2.). "
You cannot permit such access granted by the licence awarded through the ToS (5.) on your own obviously. If you could, the people you permit access wouldn't need to follow the ToS as they were never required to agree to it.
So, 05/15/2011 - 05:56
#10
I don't think 'any other
I don't think 'any other person' refers to 'people that haven't agreed to the ToS'.
I think it means 'any other person'.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:07
#11
Indeed.But 5. grants "access
Indeed.
But 5. grants "access the Site and to use Spiral Knights"; not under the condition to use a specific account, already. You cannot permit access to something you don't own obviously.
edit: 6.2 is in no way explictly banning revelation of access data, which then may be used in accordance to the ToS. Furthermore 6.2 has to stand there, because if it didn't, it'd create a loophole to allow people to bypass the ToS.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:15
#12
You're a troll right? Are you sure you're not a troll?
Section 5:
Three Rings hereby grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to access the Site and to use Spiral Knights... Three Rings may revoke this license at any time and for any reason. Specifically if you breach the terms of service we will ban your account.
Section 6.2:
You agree not to do any of the following prohibited actions:
2. permit any other person (including but not limited to a former member whose account Three Rings has terminated) to access Spiral Knights, or create or provide any other means through which the Games may be played by anyone besides you (e.g., through server emulators);
Section 9:
you do not have a license to let others use your account.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:19
#13
ITT: People try to find loop
ITT: People try to find loop holes for Three Rings to close.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:22
#14
Really?
I don't think anyone would put in all this legal effort just ot give away their account. It isn't really efficient.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:42
#15
Freedom of choice
I do agree that it was implicated in the TOS not to share an account but there is abit of a paradox here:
9. "You are solely responsible and entirely liable for all activities conducted through your account and/or your User ID, even if your account has been compromised through no fault of your own."
and
9. "encourages you to maintain the confidentiality of your password"
against
9."reminds you that you do not have a license to let others use your account."
Hmm, as TiVVV34 did point out: "encourage" already assumes the freedom of choice. How can you be solely responsible for your account, "encouraged to maintain the confidentiality of your password" and yet not have the license to let others use your account?!? WTH? So what are we responsible for exactly? Definitely not the choice since there is no "license".
Besides, what I am quite dissatisfied with is the way they (GMs) banned my account based on some rule they didn't state explicitly. Selling an account for money, in-game or otherwise; I would understand perfectly. Sharing an account ,however, there is no specific rule. It was indeed quite a rude shock to me. My "auction" did not in any way, involve money. The "bidding price" for the account was basically an interesting forum reply post that reflected a reliable person.
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:59
#16
Shoebox, you are trolling
Shoebox, you are trolling right?
I think we can establish that all of us were granted a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to access the Site and to use Spiral Knights (5)
I think we can establish that you cannot permit any other person access Spiral Knights (6.2)
I think we can establish that you do not have a license to let others use your account (9). (You don't even own your account to begin with)
You can't award licences to play the game nor use your account. as either would imply bybassing the ToS entirely.
However this does not rule out revelation of account information in any way shape or form.
Nor does it revoke your license to use spiral knights.
Also, the op asked a question about the policies of this game. I'm elaborating based on the ToS (which may be incomplete) and would hope to see a statement of a person in charge on the topic.
Rather then talking to people who like to jump to conclusions and try to make a neutral document seem to share their subjective interpretation of it.
edit:
9:
A) "Three Rings ENCOURAGES you to maintain the confidentiality of your password"
implies choice
B) "REMINDS you that you do not have a license to let others use your account"
refers to 5.
C) You agree to notify Three Rings immediately in the event your password is lost, stolen, disclosed or compromised
actually requires you to tell OOO about account sharing. (unless disclosed can be interpreted in a way I'm not aware of)
I'd hope to see these things changed to be more in line with each other in a future revision of the ToS. (edit 2: and perhaps a more well defined concept of account; "account" is not put in relation to any license obtained or anything else)
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:45
#17
...
@Deslare
OOO is not going anywhere if they don't release something new soon -.-
@DrLequack
You did be surprised at what some crazy ppl do. E.g. suing macdonalds for making fat people
So, 05/15/2011 - 06:57
#18
So true about the content
So true about the content 1dinosaursqw.
At least I get to do something productive when I'm not reseaching curious matters on the forums.
So, 05/15/2011 - 07:12
#19
How is this not common sense?
However this does not rule out revelation of account information in any way shape or form.
If you can't give out licenses to other players, and if allowing any 'other person' to access Spiral Knights is against the ToS.
How is giving somebody your account information, to access Spiral Knights, not a breach of the ToS?
They are not you and they are accessing Spiral Knights.
If that person is using your account and they have not agreed to the ToS, it doesn't matter, they're not EXEMPT from the ToS.
It just means YOU get punished instead.
YOUR account gets banned.
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACCOUNT.
There's no 'loophole' that can stop accounts being banned.
If the account was created, somebody had to have agreed to the ToS and that person is liable for what happened, with or without their knowledge.
Also, keep in mind, "Three Rings' failure to enforce at any time any provision of this agreement shall in no way be construed to be a present or future waiver of such provision, nor in any way affect the right of any party to enforce each and every such provision thereafter."
This doesn't mean that because you share account and haven't been banned, that you are allowed to share an account. All it means is that they haven't enforced the Terms of Service.
Which is why they ENCOURAGE and REMIND you that it is YOUR account and YOU are responsible for the things that happen on it.
So, 05/15/2011 - 07:56
#20
"If you can't give out
"If you can't give out licenses to other players, and if allowing any 'other person' to access Spiral Knights is against the ToS.
How is giving somebody your account information, to access Spiral Knights, not a breach of the ToS?
They are not you and they are accessing Spiral Knights."
because they are allowed access to Spiral Knights by OOO in accordance to point 5.
this (their personal) license is not bound to any account in any way shape or form.
is that so difficult to see?
"If that person is using your account and they have not agreed to the ToS, it doesn't matter, they're not EXEMPT from the ToS.
It just means YOU get punished instead."
It'd be a loophole in the regard that legal consequences, based on the ToS, could not be pursued. Getting an account banned isnt a legal consequence when OOO reserves the right to terminate any account anyway. It's their game their rules. They can ban your account and pursue legal consequences against you who perhaps knowingly gave a license to someone with malicious intent, sure. but said person couldn't be pursued based on the ToS and was allowed to use the service in any way shape or form his local legal system allowed him to. So that has to get ruled out. No one could be allowed to use this service without compliance. That's why you cannot permit access or give away licenses. Neither of which you do by revealing your password to someone who is licensed to access the game already.
This doesn't mean I share accounts or would see a need to do so. You should just read the ToS or wait for an official statement.
So, 05/15/2011 - 08:37
#21
ITT: Disagreeing with someone
ITT: Disagreeing with someone = trolling.
Also, Shoebox is right.
So, 05/15/2011 - 08:40
#22
Not allowed, period
There really is absolutely no point in this discussion.
No player is under any circumstances allowed to give anyone else access - temporarily or permanently - to one of their accounts, no player may use (with or without the owner's permission) another player's account, and the only person ever allowed to log in an account is the person who created the account.
And to be perfectly clear: Should we be aware that an account was "sold", both the seller (should he have other accounts) and the buyer (likely also an all accounts) will be permanently banned.
</thread>
Mo, 05/16/2011 - 08:04
#23
Yeah, it all comes down to
Yeah, it all comes down to the policy of each individual company. That's what we get for having prephrased ToSes in every second game.
Saying account sharing is forbidden based on this ToS is a fallacy though.
edit: oh right the post above mine is by an admin. so that's a decisive statement. Took me a day to notice lol..
So, 05/15/2011 - 08:53
#24
@Shoebox for making common sense
1. It is not common sense cause they first state that you are encouraged and responsible. Then state you don't have the rights (license) - contradictory?
YOUR Account. YOUR Responsibility. YOU'RE encouraged to not to share. YOUR freedom of choice(wait... am i missing something here?). Ah... YOU'RE banned.
2. Of course there no loophole to getting banned! Its just questioning of the justification behind it :)
3.You have just violated the ToS too. Under 6.3 - vulgarities. Hypocrite Haha
So, 05/15/2011 - 09:18
#25
@Deslare
OOO is not going
@Deslare
OOO is not going anywhere if they don't release something new soon -.-
- This has no relevance to my post.
Mo, 05/16/2011 - 06:45
#26
Awww...
Don't quit Telsacoil! I've been looking forwards to dungeoning more with you. Remember earlier today when we were in that fire stratum and were absolutely annihilated? Good times... Spiral Knights is just growing, and I'm sure bigger and better things are on the way. I would love you to be there when they are released. Think about all that fun you could be missing out on...
Mo, 05/16/2011 - 06:56
#27
Where did that come from
Woah, didn't see that comment about the permanent ban. This is like the 4th time I've seen an admin post outside of the announcements, the account thing must be pretty serious.
No