The very RADICAL suggestion to improve Damage Versus Monsters

6 replies [Last post]
Grandish

Good evening.
In this thread, I'll be talking about DvM, my current issues with this series of perks, and how I think they could be improved.
But first, a disclaimer: throughout this thread I will be referring to Damage vs. Monsters as shortened down to just DvM to save time and space, keep that in mind.

So, DvM. Most people nowadays only recognise it in the current game as a waste of gear stats and an obstacle during Punch-rerolling. And while I DO think that DvM has some redeeming qualities and can ABSOLUTELY save a loadout if people just tried to branch outside their BK/Chaos sets, that doesn't mean I disagree with the general sentiment. I recognise that innate DvM on weapons is an undeserved trade-off for damage, I recognise that DvM and universal damage buffs are part of the same stat system, and I do think these are problems that need to be tackled

That being said, I'd like to propose a rather unusual solution: to add innate DvM to as many weapons (and other pieces of gear like armour and shields) as possible, if they don't already have one, and ideally, every last one of them.
Below I'll try to explain my reasoning for this, and address some of the other sentiments I hear in the community.

"How does this help any weapons at all?"
Right now, in my opinion, I think the biggest reason why DvM is considered such a useless stat is entirely the fault of Black Kat and Chaos sets; universal damage is made extremely accessible thanks to them, and is set to be the current norm.
Only other option would've been to decrease their damage bonus, however that's completely off the table, given how integrated these two armour sets have become in the META, but we can instead introduce ways to encourage people to experiment with gear variety, so we'll be taking the opposite route instead.

Remember: redundancy is KING in this situation. I believe that with enough DvM on as many gear pieces as possible, people will simply be safely covered for MOST of the game's content, even if they choose to try other armour sets that don't necessarily boast the same offensive buffs as BK/Chaos.

"But why not just uncap weapon damage? Make all damage bonuses stack independently with DvM, since that's what people have been suggesting for years!"
I have many issues with this suggestion, as it would simply not fix anything. BK/Chaos would still reign supreme.
With about the same level of success, you could just raise the base damage of ALL weapons across the board - sure, it helps you kill enemies faster, but it does not address the current stagnation in the meta. As BK/Chaos are still the most accessible sources of universal damage, people's preference towards gear would effectively stay the same, while optimized loadouts would also have the added pressure of needing to seek out DvM perks on top of their maxed-out weapon damage. This META stagnation, paired with an already overboard damage output, would effectively homogenise gear variety, and make PvE content easier than it already needs to be.
Slightly beside the point, but even ignoring the META, this simply would be hard to implement given the specifics of gear stats - universal buffs like ASI, CTR, and damage, should be treated as their own entities separate from damage versus monsters, as the entire stat system is carefully built around the 12 point environment.

With that out of the way, I will now list off all the DvM additions that I could come up with down below, and try my best to explain my reasoning behind each of them. If you have something you'd like to add to this list, please feel free to suggest, and try to explain the reasoning to your best extent. If you've read all of this so far, feel free to also congratulate yourself. And join me next week as I go into detail about nerfing Brandishes.

Sat, 10/10/2026 - 06:12 #1
Grandish
List of damage bonuses I'd give to weapons:
  • All Antiguas: RAISE the base level of damage as if they've never traded their damage for any perks.
  • Glacius: DvM Undead High, this is simply because Basil recommends it as a craftable weapon in the King of Ashes mission lobby.
  • Combuster: DvM Construct High, just to cover the other monster family that's weak to Elemental Damage
  • Barbarous Thorn Blade and Dark Briar Barrage: DvM Beast Very High to both, given the boss lair they're associated with, and Snarbolax being viewed as a formidable apex predator among other beasts.
  • Final Flourish: DvM Fiend Very High, as a direct mirror to Barbarous Thorn Blade. This would also fit Deadly Candy Poker quite well, given that it's a Winterfest-exclusive weapon, and Winerfest missions are known for their prominence of Fiends.
  • Deadly Splinter Bomb: DvM Beast Very High, as a counterweight to Sun Shards which have DvM Fiends. The Beast damage bonus could arguably be higher as well, Ultra or Maximum, given that this weapon has no status effect unlike Sun Shards.
  • Deadly Dark Matter Bomb: DvM Gremlin Very High/Ultra/Maximum. Just like Splinter Bomb, this is to cover the other monster family that Shocking Salt Bomb doesn't cover. And if that's not a good enough reason, killing Gremlins is mentioned at least TWICE in this bomb's crafting tree.
  • Deadly Crystal Bomb: DvM Undead Very High/Ultra/Maximum. Self-explanatory, it's mentioned in the description, just like with the other Shard Bombs.
  • Furious Flamberge: DvM Beast High/Medium. I feel like fire status is just a better choice against Wolvers; due to their dodge move being an instant teleport, the value from Stun's slowing effect doesn't get to fully shine.
  • Fearless Rigadoon: DvM Fiends High/Medium. Devilite's dodges consist of only taking a few steps to the side, making Stun a much more reliable way to hamper their movement. On top of that, all Fiends have resistance against fire, making Flamberge a less desirable option.
  • Arcana: DvM Construct AND Undead Medium. Blasters have a reputation as the generalist, all-rounder handguns that are suitable in any situation. I think it's logical to pay homage to that by giving them a slight kick in damage to BOTH monster families they're effective against. The similar logic applies for Phantamos and Riftlocker.
  • Phantamos: DvM Gremlin AND Slime Medium.
  • Riftlocker: DvM Beast AND Fiends Medium.
  • Valiance and Leviathan Blade: DvM against Beast, Fiend, and Gremlin Low. Cobalt-line weapons are viewed as being the most basic weapons in the game, that are usually consistently reliable throughout the ENTIRE game regardless of missions, so picking proper damage bonuses for them was difficult. I eventually went off the judgement that 1) Blaster and Calibur are awarded just before Shadow of the Beast, a largely Beast themed mission. 2) Gremlins are the main opposing faction of Spiral Knights, so giving the main weapons an advantage against them feels natural, and 3) Blades of the Fallen is the mission they were awarded in. Plus, 2 other Cobalt-themed weapons (Final Flourish and Callahan) deal piercing damage, so paying some sort of homage to anti-Beast anti-Fiend damage without replacing it feels logical.
  • Nitronome: DvM Construct, Undead, and Gremlin Low. Damage against Gremlins was chosen for a similar reason as stated above, and damage against Construct and Undead is added as a slight HINT at elemental damage, without replacing the bomb's current damage type, since the explosion still is a highly compressed burst of energy, qualifying it as an element.
  • Volcanic Pepperbox: DvM Undead High. Many people have been suggesting to make this weapon elemental, and this is simply my solution to give it some viability in FSC without replacing the existing damage type

EDIT:

  • Divine Avenger: DvM Undead (and possibly Fiend) High. This one should be obvious, Divine Avenger is very much sold as a sword intended for slaying the undead. I also think that giving it a damage bonus against FIENDS could work to keep up with its heavenly theming, despite dealing neutral damage.

My list of DvM suggestions ends here, for now, if anyone has any ideas of their own, you're more than welcome to post them in this thread with explanation for why they were chosen.

Thu, 10/08/2026 - 23:43 #2
Cetta
Sounds Really Good

Many items could get a real glowup, i mean, using bombs and guns only has support is not that funny, considering irl they´re more dangerous than actual swords.

Part of this could be fixed by creating more weapons, shields, helms and armors... the devs should also look into that, would love to see deluxe vitakits of 5 stars, maybe based on gremling menders or silkwings.

Also i hope they add more split evos for other items to fill these lack of options and to help homogenize the options

Thu, 10/08/2026 - 23:43 #3
Kyiia
this wont change much unfortunately

so yeah im definitely annoyed at chaos and BK having such high universal damage bonus, i honestly dont think universal damage/ASI/CTR medium or high should exist on any item. but universal damage max isn't the only thing they offer - maxing your damage already isn't that hard, but chaos and BK are meta because they're unique in other ways

MSI is almost completely inaccessible outside of black kat specifically (and the almost strictly inferior and still difficult to acquire mercurial armors), and there are no redundant options to get to +4 or +6, so anyone wearing BK outspeeds anyone who isn't and it generally just feels bad to be wearing anything that isn't BK

meanwhile chaos is the only armor set with CTR med for swords/guns; guns have only CTR low armors while swords have no CTR armors at all, which likewise makes chaos difficult to replace as the budget option when the meta consists mainly of charge attacks. BK is still preferred over chaos once you're no longer on a budget because MSI is truly unique while CTR can be maxxed through more expensive means (UVs and colosseum trinkets), but among the cheaper craftable gear chaos is also unique

even when you already have damage max against the relevant monster types, BK/chaos are still the preferred armors, and that'll always be true no matter how accessible damage max becomes; at best you could make people consider mercurial mail. the only real way to change that is to make CTR and MSI more accessible

(on a tangent, i wonder if high universal damage/ASI/CTR could be fine paired with damage/ASI/CTR penalties? that could be interesting! the only gear that really plays in that space right now is Armor of the Fallen balancing out universal ASI with damage penalty fiend, otherwise all armor only tries to do damage/ASI/CTR vs. health/defense/status resistance tradeoffs)

Fri, 10/09/2026 - 08:14 #4
Queen-Hathena
I agree with Kyiia

The main issues are that the two META Armors you do not want to change are the problem and the only way to change that is giving MSI to more sets as well as sprinkleing CTR in some places..

Sat, 10/10/2026 - 06:09 #5
Grandish
Thank you for the feedback so

Thank you for the feedback so far guys, Kyiia raised pretty valid points so I wanted to address those:

"This won't change much because BK/Chaos offer perks that other armour sets don't have."
The idea was not to immediately solve fix the situation with only one change. Rather, I think this is the first of many steps in balancing the gear and addressing currently the most under-utilised game mechanic, being Damage Bonus versus Monsters.
I agree with weapon-specific perks being limited outside of universal. That being said, I think CTR and movement speed are mostly a problem of other armour sets, rather than specific weapons, I also do agree that increasing them on specifically Merc Demo and Merc Jelly from Low to Medium would definitely give them competition against BK.
Off the topic, but I also just believe that MSI is an overrated stat in regular gameplay, that doesn't provide much combat benefit beyond "smoother level navigation".
I also disagree with the notion that CTR is what keeps Chaos relevant, at least beyond early gameplay, as there are plenty of ways to get this perk. Not only from UV rolling and Trinkets, but also from the fact that a fully heated weapon already gets CTR Medium by default. Making it more accessible is not AS important in my opinion as DvM, considering that getting any amount at all already makes the weapon equally more viable against all 6 monster families compared to just a single DvM perk.

Sat, 10/10/2026 - 06:33 #6
Cetta
Idea

Hello, is this the Krusty Krab? Id want to order a Shadow/Normal Bombie Bombier whit a high Damage and Focus bonus whit no debuff weakness but whit a very high debuff for fiend or ghost type monster in likeness to the fallen set. Pair it whit a Shadow/Elemental defense Greedy Kleptolisk suit whit a Swift buckle type of bonus and Focus whit a Fallen set debuff for Beast or Construct.

Hey, Squidward hhas already tried to make Bonus damage against monster being appart from global damage bonuses? id like to make hyper specialist sets Instead of reliying in the BK Bucket.