Thoughts on bash and dodge...

3 replies [Last post]
Of-The-Deepers

So to make up for yesterdays mispost which didn't really belong in the testing section, here's some info regarding my experience with the bash and dash mechanics. All testing done in tier 3.

ENEMIES
--I have managed a number of times to stun enemies as I jump by them using bash. This is particularly potent on slow moving enemies such as lumbers/redwards, who can not turn around fast enough to pose a threat before you can off them.

--Dash is extremely useful for getting away from a group of charging greavers. These enemies are obnoxious (although perhaps outdone by gorgos).

--Both dash and bash are useful for getting behind trojans. With a final flourish or BTB, trojans really stand no chance one they're alone.

TERRAIN
--Travel is much easier over long distances with dash; if I need to backtrack quickly because I missed something it's nice to have.

--I've found numerous places during testing where I could jump over long sets of spikes without taking any damage. To put it bluntly (har har), this is broken. A mechanic should not allow me to completely disregard a floor hazard.

GLITCH?
--I saw someone posted a tip to combine the bash and dash. I played with this and found it very interesting. If this is accidental, I would urge OOO to keep it. It doesn't seem to be game breaking, and it can be useful to move towards distant enemies quickly.

DISCUSSION
I think that while dash and bash successfully bring entertaining mechanics to a fight, monster AI needs to be improved to keep things balanced. While some have suggested that invulnerability be scrapped, I do not think this is the answer. Both mechanics will suffer if invulnerable frames are lost; however, floor hazards are another story. These mechanics should be implemented such that spikes (etc.) still pose a threat to players. While I am giddy at the prospects of having a another useful tool for time attacks, if it is detrimental to team play it needs to be altered. Do I think that is the case with every puzzle I can think of off the top of my head? Nope. However, it is definitely something to think about.
The bash has about 1.5s of null frames upon completion and this is reasonable. The dash has slightly less than 1s of null frames and then a player can attack. If enemy AI improves, this is fine. If enemy AI does not get upgraded, the null frames at the end of the dash should be at least the same as the dash (see note on trojans above).

Hope this is useful, let me know your thoughts everyone.

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 01:56 #1
Flawedknight
hmmm

Regarding the monster AI; the game has been nerfed over and over again... I just continue to hope that the difficulty will be restored in the next tier. Trojans and lumbars are already just about the slowest monsters out there -- the super slow recovery time for everything they do already leaves them super vulnerable, and alone they never stand much of a challenge...

I'm intrigued with your review on the bash though... I'll have to give it a few more shots before passing judgment. I always found that the stun / damage wasn't worth the time it takes vs just using an attack, and in addition that the only good use was that you could break through a wall of monsters with it.

thanks for the ideas though I'll try using it as an additional dash to see how it works out

Cheers

Fri, 05/10/2013 - 07:24 #2
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

The dash has slightly less than 1s of null frames and then a player can attack. If enemy AI improves, this is fine. If enemy AI does not get upgraded, the null frames at the end of the dash should be at least the same as the dash (see note on trojans above).

Excellent suggestion!

monster AI needs to be improved to keep things balanced. While some have suggested that invulnerability be scrapped, I do not think this is the answer. Both mechanics will suffer if invulnerable frames are lost;

IDK how OOO has planned the future with upcoming Battle Sprites, I hope they realize that people will get better with those mechanics and for people who could already solo SL, those mechanics will make them even BETTER.

At least now I can see more timing in our future and more calculus, I'm always up for this. I love math ^ ^

Sat, 05/11/2013 - 18:33 #3
Of-The-Deepers
Thanks for the feedback you

Thanks for the feedback you guys.

@Flawedknight: Yeah, unfortunately there seem to be a lot of balancing issues. I cosntantly get swamped by endless swarms of minis but have no trouble taking out a couple trojans quickly. I also expected the bash to be less useful but I started using it more when I realized I could stun enemies without actually landing right in front of them. That can be convenient sometimes. Please enjoy yourself with the bash!

@Shamanala: Thanks! Yes, I feel that these mechanics really aren't game breaking in and of themselves as some people have said. Some tweaks are definitely necessary though. I still have faith in OOO and believe they are working hard to make the game challanging while still keeping it fun for casual players. I'm sure they will take monster AI into consideration when introducting sprites. Also, yeah! Math is a great tool to have!

Cheers