Except Vog cub (and maybe snarbolax)
You know, wolvers are weak to pierce, then we get wolver armors rsistant to it, wolver armor should be elemental resistant instead.
Im not saying that gonna happen or i want it to happen
That thing has been in my head for d i just wanted to point it out
Wolver Armor set makes no sense
"then we get wolver armors rsistant to it, wolver armor should be elemental resistant instead."
Vog Cub set.
Yes, this has been noted many times over the years. While we're at it, the description for Skolver suggests that it gives you ASI, but it doesn't: "The ultimate in Wolver-hide clothing, this coat has been expertly crafted to give your melee attacks blinding speed."
I laugh when I think about the fact that people think that for the High-Tech Knights to make armour out of an animal we just wear the animal's pelt without making ANY modifications whatsoever underneath to increase its durability like adding chain mail or making it into a brigandine.
This thread is not about real life. It's about the internal logical consistency of the game world. In the game, wolvers resist elemental and are vulnerable to piercing. So Wolver, Dusker, Ash Tail, and Skolver armors are not consistent with the rest of the game.
Redesign priority: Low.
Do the slime armors make you resistant to piercing though?
That's because the slime armors are almost entirely made out of the monster they are named after .
There's an explanation for everything you just have to be open minded.
The Knights knew of the wolvers piercing weakness. So it made sense for them to make "modifications" to the wolver pelts which got rid of the piercing weakness and instead made the armour resistant to that damage. Wolvers deal piercing damage so why wear armour which is weak to monsters which they probably fought on a constant basis.
Now we also have to take into account that the wolver armours provided the wearer comfort and warmth. It may have been a popular piece of "clothing" for the knights, thus being stranded on an unknown planet they had to make these modifications to the wolver armour for survival.
@Arcknightdelta: That is still unwarranted. Wolver armors are weak to piercing naturally because of their hide. An animal's skin is relatively easy to perforate. It's even more silly to make them actually lose their natural elemental resistance. Thing is, Wolver armor sets aren't meant for defense, they're for the thrill of the hunt and engaging close combat. Swapping the resistance type is trivial if we're trying to make sense out of the Wolver armors in the end, the point that's being discussed in this thread is that elemental defense is more natural for them. The only Wolver set that would be remotely reasonable for providing piercing resistance would be Iron Wolf Helms and Armors, but alas they're merely costumes.
I would also argue that Wolver sets should have Sword ASI bonuses instead of Sword Damage bonuses for balancing purposes, but that's a treacherously sharp double-edged topic.
Scaly skins can be perforated, though it's hit-or-miss depending on wheter you hit the scales or thrust in-between them. It makes (most of) the Scale sets very logical with their dual-defense setup, since they are built to take advantage of the scales' defensively tight armoring. They are also well suited for fighting Beasts in general thanks to the two resistances types considering the occasional elemental damage on some Chromalisks' spits.
On a lengthier end of the spectrum, you don't simply make Jelly armor sets resistant to Shadow because dark matter trumps their entire fabric.
That's your opinion. I just gave mine. There isn't a right or wrong answer. This isn't real life so things that would make sense in the real world doesn't HAVE to apply here.
Btw this should be in Arsenal forum. Please move it.
@Arcknightdelta I'm not sure wheter you're escaping my affirmation or trying to apply a counterpoint to it, since you're sounding rather defensive and conclusive over it. Do you inquire that you have no further comment to bring up on the matter?
Virulisk/chroma isn't resistant to elemental either, but piercing instead. Worth noting.
Dread Skelly makes sense though, as do the Kat hats and salamander set and presumably fallen set (it makes you like a fiend).
No it's you who is being defensive. Counterpoint, affirmation, conclusive, inquire, I particularly love your use of fancy words, very cute :)
Lol we are talking about something that is hardly as important as what I had for breakfast this morning. Do we need to have full on discussions on every little topic here? If you couldn't tell in my first post I gave an opinion in the form of something fictional, I clearly opened with a line telling everyone to be open minded, there are millions of reasons why wolver armour is piercing resistant, there doesn't need to be a right reason though.
I normally base everything I say on fact/evidence. What I wrote was a made up short story on ONE possible reason. If I believed my version to be the ONLY version, by all means I would defend it to the death. I'm not escaping anything, I got nothing to do or say to what you think as it's irrelevant to anything I have said. Your point could be right, who cares. This is general discussion not the arsenal so we don't have to go into armour stats and nerdy debates.
Do you really think I was basing my entire defence on the thought wolver coats were in fashion in the early days hence why the knights took extra precaution to modify wolver pelts to have piercing resistance? Please liven up :)
I'll be more than happy to discuss factual information based on the Spiral Knight Wiki if this thread was in the right forum.
Yep, I thought of this too. Wolver armor and jelly armor don't really make sense (if I submerge myself in jelly, I'm pretty sure you could stab me with a spear if you wanted to. The jellies themselves can resist pierce though cause they dont have any vital organs to poke.), but it's probably just because the makers decided it to be that way, nothing more, nothing less. You'll find in society people do things that don't make sense or they do things for little to no logical reason.
It's all about how you feel and if you're the maker you can bend logic all day son.
This is a good idea. Why would I do this? The chaos set is literally a hazard to my health, and yet, it's delicious. This makes no sense, but VIDEO GAME.
The argument here is suspension of disbelief, and I think the whole wolver pierce thing crosses that. I vote we move this to the arsenal, and have a lengthily discussion about it.
That there doesn't need to be one factual reason why wolver armour has piercing defence. It's a game. There could be any reason for it and it doesn't need to make sense.
You had it dumped in your lap earlier, but you decided to just be a #&@! about it.
What? Please do say.
Edit: please don't tell me you're another one taking a topic that is in General Discussion that should have been in Arsenal, seriously. Explain to me what I am missing and maybe I can correct you if I'm wrong.
That there doesn't need to be one factual reason why wolver armour has piercing defence. It's a game. There could be any reason for it and it doesn't need to make sense.~Arcknightdelta
It is there that you're missing the point entirely. People usually don't expect a game to make sense according to real life, but they often do expect a game to make sense according to its own laws and logic that it has established. It's a minor flaw, but technically Wolver armor should defend against whatever damage type that Wolvers are resistant to. I suspect that the reason is because OOO didn't have an armor design for an enemy that has resistance to piercing, but I'm not going to take the time to check a lot of armor variants and enemy types.
Okay... Let me throw this out here:
Wolver sets are not supposed to emphasize defense, rather offense. The piercing defense is probably to encourage usage against beasts.
Under this same logic, Snarbolax armor should be invincible unless the player is stunned. It makes sense lore-wise, but is completely unbalanced in the game.
I didn't miss the point, because there is no point to miss. Some of you are taking things way too seriously.
Because this is general discussion any point raised as to why wolvers have piercing defence is a just a reason, it doesn't need to be wrong or right. That's the point some of you are missing.
At the end of the day we can come up with a 100 reasons why Wolver coats should or shouldn't have piercing defence based on logic and the laws of Spiral Knights. It's only OOO who know the answer and therefore the thought that went into making the wolver line what it is.
@Arcknightdelta What is it about this thread being on General Discussion and not Arsenal? We heard you the first time, but until it does get moved to a more proper forum section this doesn't make the thread less discussable.
And just to get back to you on older requests...
"Do we need to have full on discussions on every little topic here?"
Of course. It adds activity to the forum, even if it's merely invested attention and debating toward things with a fair deal of ambiguity or little background. And personally I don't mind, since the forum isn't as productive as I hoped it would be in the past few months, but that's only my point of view. I don't berate you wanting to keep a distance from the discussion if the depth of the digging irks you, however, that's your call and I respect that.
"I'm not escaping anything, I got nothing to do or say to what you think as it's irrelevant to anything I have said."
Then why reply with a hook if it doesn't pick back up the subject to begin with? It's highly susceptible of derailing a thread into discussing about discussing things.
"Do you really think I was basing my entire defence on the thought wolver coats were in fashion in the early days hence why the knights took extra precaution to modify wolver pelts to have piercing resistance?"
I was rather thinking you were basing your entire defense on wanting to get the matter dealt with as fast, plausibly and clear as you could before you'd grow weary of it out of repeated retaliations, but since it's just a guess I'll leave it at that.
"I'll be more than happy to discuss factual information based on the Spiral Knight Wiki if this thread was in the right forum."
That's fine, but the thread is still open and going. Wheter people discuss the matter or not as it is won't change wheter it'll be moved to the Arsenal.
@Rothni-Alias "I suspect that the reason is because OOO didn't have an armor design for an enemy that has resistance to piercing, but I'm not going to take the time to check a lot of armor variants and enemy types.
There definitely was Jelly, but slimes didn't generally do piercing damage at first. What was the damage type distributions at the time, what about Wolvers? I'm curious.
@Fangel "Wolver sets are not supposed to emphasize defense, rather offense. The piercing defense is probably to encourage usage against beasts."
We have the Drake Scale set and above for that. I'd argue that the Wolver line is for a more broadly general swordsman mindset than having a particular focus for fighting beasts, so defense isn't much of a concern on the base. But above that base, Wolvers have natural resistance to Elemental damage. And that's where the contradiction with the Piercing defense starts to clash for some, starting with the original poster.
As it is, though, the standard Wolver armor line indeed makes it more efficient to fight Beasts, as well as Slimes. Especially Slimes.
Piercing armor isn't meant to be used against piercing monsters? You also ignored the snarbolax point.
wow you don't like thing
good job
here's a prize
Ok you're saying the wolver line should have elemental defence because wolvers themselves are resistant to elemental damage. It would make sense and the logical course of action for them. It feels more natural. Opinion.
You're also saying wolver lines are not meant for defence. They are naturally fast creatures focusing on speed to close the distance between themselves and their prey. Then focus on quick CQC. Therefore wolver armour should really have ASI rather than DMG. Opinion.
I don't disagree with you. Neither am I agreeing with you. I'm not ignoring or deliberately missing the point. Your opinion on the wolver line is sensible and we'll thought out. I just gave an opinion, you responded to it and to me it sounded as if you took what I initially said seriously. Which I can't understand why, seeing as it clearly wasn't meant to be serious. I stated no fact or made any logical argument.
I gave my opinion through a short, sort of fan fiction. A made up story. It's something that I would like to BELIEVE to enforce the decision OOO took to make the wolver line piercing defence. (I'm not counting 5 star). What I am saying is there doesn't need to be one clear cut explanation to why things are as they are regardless of the most logical or natural based argument anyone throws out. Opinion.
I would like to see the jelly line get elemental and shadow defence. In a game, such things doesn't need to make sense for them to be used. Personally I think every set should have piercing, elemental and shadow defence. So you can have a much wider selection of gear with different styles. So for all the jelly lovers they could get an elemental defence and fire resistant set, perfect for Vana. Opinion. It doesn't need to be right unless I base my opinion on fact, which I normally do, but not this time. Seeing as this is a fantasy game with thousands of possibilities.
By all means discuss this at will. I didn't come on this thread to state facts or logical explanations. If I could be bothered I would not have wrote a small story explaining the Spiral Knight sense of fashion. It's a good thing I didn't write an essay I can only imagine the reaction I would get from those who are seriously trying to make sense of things. Don't get me wrong I didn't come here to troll either. I just don't see the point of discussing this topic as I'm happy with how things are. I could have started my own thread and wrote a small fan fiction on why wolver coats have piercing defence, but then I would most likely have to defend my reasons (people take everything you say way too seriously here) when in fact the purpose of a fan fiction isn't to make everything sound right and logical. Or is it?
Now if you don't mind I don't want to have to come back on here and think too hard on this. Kind of stressed over exams, these little short episodes help relieve stress, so thanks but I had enough :)
Edit: just as I finished, this gets moved to Arsenal :)
@Arcdeltaknight "Ok you're saying the wolver line should have elemental defence because wolvers themselves are resistant to elemental damage. It would make sense and the logical course of action for them. It feels more natural. Opinion."
An argument pushed by an opinion, but yes.
"You're also saying wolver lines are not meant for defence. They are naturally fast creatures focusing on speed to close the distance between themselves and their prey. Then focus on quick CQC. Therefore wolver armour should really have ASI rather than DMG. Opinion."
Indeed.
"I don't disagree with you. Neither am I agreeing with you. I'm not ignoring or deliberately missing the point. Your opinion on the wolver line is sensible and we'll thought out. I just gave an opinion, you responded to it and to me it sounded as if you took what I initially said seriously. Which I can't understand why, seeing as it clearly wasn't meant to be serious. I stated no fact or made any logical argument."
I didn't disagree either in the first place, I simply found the method of reply questionnable out of suspension and cluelessness of my part. This caused a split in the discussion. Or is it a bottleneck?
"I gave my opinion through a short, sort of fan fiction. A made up story. It's something that I would like to BELIEVE to enforce the decision OOO took to make the wolver line piercing defence. (I'm not counting 5 star). What I am saying is there doesn't need to be one clear cut explanation to why things are as they are regardless of the most logical or natural based argument anyone throws out. Opinion."
That depends on your definition and extent of "there doesn't need to be", but I see where you're going with this and that's fine.
And your thought on the matter as it is is also plausible and agreeable. Of course, that leaves the plothole of the materials used to make the armor that do not exact the description or the actual properties of the actual armor, but since most other sets suffer from inconsistencies of this sort I'll not indulge.
"I would like to see the jelly line get elemental and shadow defence. In a game, such things doesn't need to make sense for them to be used. Personally I think every set should have piercing, elemental and shadow defence. So you can have a much wider selection of gear with different styles. So for all the jelly lovers they could get an elemental defence and fire resistant set, perfect for Vana. Opinion."
A novel idea. A wide variety for mix-matching makes it all very entertaining, but simplicity in assets and purpose is also crucial...
"It doesn't need to be right unless I base my opinion on fact, which I normally do, but not this time. Seeing as this is a fantasy game with thousands of possibilities."
...as the large scale and the risk of stagnancy can weigh down severely on the game. This will require cautious elaboration.
"By all means discuss this at will. I didn't come on this thread to state facts or logical explanations. If I could be bothered I would not have wrote a small story explaining the Spiral Knight sense of fashion. It's a good thing I didn't write an essay I can only imagine the reaction I would get from those who are seriously trying to make sense of things. Don't get me wrong I didn't come here to troll either. I just don't see the point of discussing this topic as I'm happy with how things are. I could have started my own thread and wrote a small fan fiction on why wolver coats have piercing defence, but then I would most likely have to defend my reasons (people take everything you say way too seriously here) when in fact the purpose of a fan fiction isn't to make everything sound right and logical."
I have no problem with this whatsoever. I have plenty of my own, but never went around nor full circle to expressing it. No pun intended.
"Or is it?"
Fandom can have a significant impact on (re)shaping the background, characteristics and purpose of existing assets (or lack thereof), it's only a matter of how well it appeals and holds up.
"Now if you don't mind I don't want to have to come back on here and think too hard on this. Kind of stressed over exams, these little short episodes help relieve stress, so thanks but I had enough."
Seems fair.
"Edit: just as I finished, this gets moved to Arsenal"
How convenient.
On another note, I insist we wrap up those multiple quotings soon.
So for all the jelly lovers they could get an elemental defence and fire resistant set, perfect for Vana. Opinion."
Ah, how about no?
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Volcanic_Plate_Mail
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Volcanic_Demo_Suit
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Volcanic_Salamander_Suit
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Vog_Cub_Coat
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Arcane_Salamander_Suit
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Divine_Mantle
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Dragon_Scale_Mail
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Perfect_Mask_of_Seerus
Piercing, Normal and Fire resist, yeah. Seeing as there's only one piece of equipment that defends against Piercing and Fire, and it doesn't have normal resist.
I've been thinking this too, it's the same with some of the chroma armors. Where is the gremlin armor, if we have Salamander/chromalisk, Wolver, Slime and such armors?