Spiral Knights - I don't like the lore on the new gilded griffin

I don't like the lore on the new gilded griffin

20 replies [Last post]

Sat, 04/26/2014 - 22:33

Fehzor

I don't know where to put this, as it relates to guns but isn't about balance. Move it wherever if you'd like.

Why it is bad

Because its exactly the same as the lore for argent peacemaker, but centered around fiends instead of fiends:

Argent Peacemaker:
"An ancient handgun forged from sun silver. Its bullets serve as ushers for those that refuse to leave this world."

Gilded Griffen:
"A beautiful pistol named after a great, noble beast. It's* golden frame was believed to provide light within the impenetrable darkness of the Underworld."

So let me get this straight. The antigua gun can be upgraded into a positively driven, destroyer of evil, a maligned, hell bent variant, or a positively driven, destroyer of evil. That kind of destroys the dichotomy that was established before, whereby you had to choose between good or evil, almost like picking a side. I know its silly, but that was kind of awesome and I really appreciated it from you guys.

*And yes, the "It's" was used in the description on the testing server. I.E. "It is golden frame was..."

What to change it to

You gotta add to the story a bit with this! Find some kind of middle ground. The third line could easily represent some kind of grey area, or even just abstaining from religion on the whole.

Another thought is that the model is golden, and shares much in common with another weapon- the wild hunting blade. Why not make it have to do with beasts?

An example of the above:

Raptor- "An ancient pistol crafted from the bones of beasts. Its owners were said to have been driven from their homelands and forced into a life of solitude by angels, left to fend for themselves."

Gilded Griffin- "A beautiful pistol originally crafted from the gold encrusted remains of beasts. Its intended purpose was to fight off invaders from the Underworld while surviving in the wilds."

This makes it very clear that it wasn't the "good guys" that made the weapon, but some party in between. Something like this, would be a lot more magical in my eyes.

Sat, 04/26/2014 - 22:41

Draycos

I find it weird that it's called the 'Gilded Griffin' when the creatures on the top and bottom of the barrel look more like dragons than griffins. They even share the design of the Drakon sprite..

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 01:04

Drischa

I somewhat agree with draycos - the 4* being called 'Raptor' also lends to a more reptillian name.

To be honest I dislike permafrost's description more. I used it and things thawed pretty darned fast.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 06:30

Skepticraven

@Drachronos

Raptors are a family of birds of prey.
They also refer to dinosaurs which are bird-like from the Cretaceous Period (ex Velociraptor).

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 12:09

Dibsville

@Drachronos

You're thinking of a Velociraptor, a dinosaur that is generally thought to be reptilian (although it's actually not); which is different from a raptor, a bird of prey as Skepticraven noted.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 14:09

Fehzor

Generally speaking, I'm not sure that the knights really even have actual raptors OR knowledge of griffins, as these are very human centric/earth related things. But things that give off the same vibe, such that the humans playing the game can relate to these concepts and get the beastly vibe from the weapon? That seems likely enough, that the Spiral Order has encountered such ideas.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 17:24

Skepticraven

@Fehzor

The common justification that I use in most fantasy games is "It is all just a translation into English." No, they probably don't have actual raptors, but they have an equivalent that would be translated to what we understand.

It is possible this complaint over the lore could also be explained in this manor. There are three things fighting : good, evil, and one we dont quite understand because we only have two (ancients).

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:16

Fehzor

True, but it would be AWESOME if they made it clearly distinguished from argent peacemaker as a third kind.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 18:29

Retequizzle

not only does the name kind of not even fit in this particular case for what the devs seem to be going for in terms of utility, but the weapon design as a whole seems rushed and incredibly flip-floppy; the name's supposed etymology and the gun design both suggest that it should be more thematic towards beasts anyway, but somehow it goes right into being vs fiends instead?

so yeah i'd be completely fine with changing the description but for entirely different reasons - this is a level of consistency that just really does nothing to help the game in the long run, and props to fehzor for taking it upon himself to provide a few suggestions for the devs to consider copypasting.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:53

Dibsville

"the name's supposed etymology and the gun design both suggest that it should be more thematic towards beasts anyway, but somehow it goes right into being vs fiends instead?"

This was basically my initial thought, but I assume they gave it a damage bonus vs Fiend for balance reasons. I mean let's be honest, beasts are an absolute joke whereas fiends are hated by a large majority of the PvE population.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 19:55

#10

Fehzor

I never said they had to remove the fiend buff from it.. just that they should embed it with more beastly goodness <3

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:19

#11

Draycos

Anti-fiend also fits how the gun handles, too. Devilites are dodgy, and they flinch on taking any damage that isn't from a status effect.

[edited edit] What if they were supposed to be the ranged equivalent of a WHB, but for fiends instead of beasts, beating an enemy at their own game?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:13

#12

Dibsville

@Draycos

What about Shard Bombs?

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:17

#13

Draycos

...It's pretty sad that I've totally forgotten that the new Shard Bombs ever existed.

I feel like Shard Bombs are just like every other bomb except with a bigger delay and more bugs.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:57

#14

Retequizzle

@ fehzor: oh no i wasn't suggesting they remove the buff entirely, it's just that the lore and gun design in terms of name and physical attributes really don't line up comparatively, so the buff just seems out of place by comparison as well. apologies for not clarifying that before.

but at this point we're crossing the line from lore into gun balancing so i'll leave it at that; i'd just like to see some consistency between the lore and application of the gun to a supposed role is all, and that can go in any direction.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 20:59

#15

Fehzor

@Rete

I was talking to Dibsville, I should have clarified. And I agree. The fiend buff is totally fine and the lore should be wrapped around it in some way. I just don't like that the item is basically a second argent peacemaker that does piercing this time for some reason. This makes no sense.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 21:15

#16

Thunderskull

Crack at it no?

My own take...

Raptor:
"A signature handgun once adorned by a mysterious group that defied the rights to the heavens whom also escaped imprisonment within the underworld."

Gilded Griffin:
"An archaic firearm that is said to be crafted using an alloy infused with the blood of a relentless being that once shattered the gateways of both the heavens and the underworld."

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 21:33

#17

Dibsville

"I was talking to Dibsville"

Oh my apologies if I came off wrong there-- the fiend bonus is great, it just seemed like it should have done more damage vs beasts. Considering what antiguas are capable of, it only makes sense that it does damage bonus vs fiends, however all signs point to it doing damage bonus vs beasts (the looks and the name have already been mentioned).

On the note of it being a second Argent Peacemaker; lately Three Rings seems to be pairing heavenly/light/divine stuff with piercing damage rather than elemental (the Celestial Shield being one of the first things that I can think of). I guess Gilded Griffin just follows this trend.

EDIT: Sorry if I say something extremely dumb, I'm really tired...

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 21:52

#18

Draycos

I'll give it a shot, too, why not?

What if the piercing antiguas were tailored to fit the old Gunslinger sets?

Raptor: A gun fashioned for those who fight for themselves. Each shot is quick and stinging.

Gilded Griffin: Designed by a nameless hero, its bullets pierce through tough hide and dark hearts with ease.

@Dibsville You haven't said anything silly, as far as I can see.

Me, I've been stupid all day. I've had to edit about 3 posts now because I've said something silly that I only catch after I hit Save.

I hope nobody noticed.

Sun, 04/27/2014 - 22:42

#19

Fehzor

Nameless hero = Clint Eastwood = The good guy from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly = "Epic Hero" in the game's files.

Mon, 04/28/2014 - 04:44

#20

Draycos

Eh, yeah, I guess it could be a little different. That'd be three times the same kind of text would appear.

"An ornamented design from a forgotten time. Its bullets are especially powerful against those with dark hearts, making it the prime choice of would-be heroes... or villains who want less competition."

"A single shot from a golden gun is painful enough. But what about six?"

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I don't like the lore on the new gilded griffin