Spiral Knights - Krakob's fair and square pure skill 1v1 tournament

Krakob's fair and square pure skill 1v1 tournament

55 replies [Last post]

Sat, 07/05/2014 - 14:34

Krakob

Edit: we now have an official tournament logo, designed by Theirillusion!
Hey all! I'm pretty tired of all the imbalances found in this minigame and the competitive community doesn't really care much for any of the imbalanced aspects, except auto target for some reason. Therefore, I've decided that it's time to host a tournament purely about skill, unlike Contri's tournaments and whatnot.

Tournament structure:

There will be 16 participants.
All participants will be grouped in groups of four.
In the groups, all players fight each other once. The two players with the most wins in each group proceed. If there's a shared 2nd/3rd place in a group, the one who won the battle between the two is the one who proceeds.
The tournament will, after that, have eight players left. It will be played as traditional tournament from that point on.
Before the final, the losers of the semi finals will fight a best out of 11 battle to determine the 3rd and 4th places.

Match procedure:

All battles preceding the semi-finals are fought best out of 9. 5 wins means victory.
Semi finals are fought best out of 11. 6 wins means victory.
Finals are fought best out of 15. 8 wins means victory.
In case of the players being on different servers, they will fight one more duel, with half being on the US servers and half being on the European servers.
If both players die, the duel counts as invalid and will be replayed.
Posthumous deaths count as deaths so if you are set on fire, kill the opponent, and then die, it's a draw. Therefore, you may not heal until any shock or fire has faded. The exception is guardians healing with their shield.
All participants must record their duels and show gear and settings before the duel. Cutting the video is not permitted, but speeding parts between duels up is permitted to reduce video length and thus filesize. The video must, at some point, contain the official tournament logo, designed by Theirillusion.
You must be able to maintain 60fps when recording, as you're put at a disadvantage if your PC is slowing down.
Playing with arrow keys limits your movement and is inferior to gamepads and keyboard+mouse. If your video clearly shows you playing with arrow keys, you'll be disqualified.
All participants are required to always auto target ON and must show this in the video. They must also show that their auto target toggle key is disabled so that they cannot bypass this rule. This is because some players suffer from worse connection than others, and auto target can, to an extent, counter this as the aiming is handled server side in the end.

Gear restrictions:

Because weapons that inflict statuses introduce an element of luck into the game, all participants are required to only use status weapons to make it fair for everyone. If any of their weapons only inflict status on charge, they may only use the charge of said weapon.
Since trinkets completely screw the balance of Lockdown, all participants must use two 5* trinkets.
Likewise, having four weapons is a pay to win issue, one must use four weapons so that no one is put at a disadvantage due to lack of slots.
Since Unique Variants introduce an element of pay to win into the game, all participants must be able to prove that they have spent at least $100 on the game throughout their career. Additionally, all weapons must have at least one Charge Time Reduction or Attack Speed Increase Very High UV so that the poor are not put at a disadvantage.
Likewise, all armours and helmets must have at least one Max UV. This may be against any status, or against any damage type as long as the defence in question actually has effect. For more information on that, please see this thread, which details plenty of info about the defence mechanics of LD.

Failure to display that you are following these rules will result in disqualification.

Prize money:
Each participant is required to pay 150 Energy to enter the contest. The four top players will be given prize money. 1st place gives twice as much as 2nd, 2nd gives twice as much as 3rd, and 3rd gives twice as much as 4th.
Thus, 1st place gives 8/15 of the prize pool, 2nd place gives 4/15 of the prize, 3rd place gives 2/15 of the prize pool, 4th place gives 1/15 of the prize pool. Don't know how much each place gives? Neither do I, but I can calculate it. If you can't, I recommend studying fractions!

How to join:
Please post here or mail me in game (IGN: Krakob). You must also provide proof that you have at least one loadout that follows the gear restriction rules.
Do not send me the entry fee until at least 16 participants have been found.

Participants:

Sat, 07/05/2014 - 14:43

Meep-The-Bank

Meep.

+1 Finally, a tournament for pros where you can prove how P2P you are. (Too busy to participate in)
Just remember to get the Almighty Contri to verify the need of this thread.

Sat, 07/05/2014 - 15:31

Theirillusion

What I imagined when clicking this link:

No AT.
No UVs.
No trinkets.
1 or 2 weapons only.
No "boss token only" - gear, has to be available in supply depot standard gear list.
No weapons inflicting status on basic attack.
Nothing but level 1 gear because I cry at night because I have no radiants.
Matches must be recorded and video must include video proof of following the rules.
All participants must be informed with how to do performance tweaks.

What I encountered: A small t**d curled up like in cartoons.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 05:58

Krakob

Maybe some day Illu, maybe some day. Good point, though! I'll draw an official tournament logo!

Edit: finished logo, updated OP.

Sat, 07/05/2014 - 16:11

Deleted-Knight

Bah, I was hoping for proto

Bah, I was hoping for proto sword, ancient plate mail, guardian only tournament.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 02:57

Valtiros

Why don't the rules

Why don't the rules correspond to the title? :o

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 05:59

Krakob

But they do! How is it not fair and square and purely skill based?

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:17

Diisasteer

Purely skill based ?

So in this turnament at = skill ?

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:00

Krakob

Exactly! By forcing all participants to use AT, the disadvantage caused by bad connection will be made less significant, putting more emphasis on actually being a good player instead of having a good connection!

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:24

Diisasteer

For me a turnament based on

For me a turnament based on skill only is no statut sword/gun/bomb, no uv, no at, (maybe same stuff for see who is the best) and lvl 10 stuff.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:45

#10

Bleyken-Forums

''Therefore, I've decided that it's time to host a tournament purely about skill, unlike Contri's tournaments and whatnot''.

AT = pure skill?

I hope this thread is a joke.

PS: AT works better on good connection players than bad connection players.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:00

#11

Krakob

It most certainly isn't a joke! As I explained in post #8, forcing participants to use AT means that the connection advantage some gain is made less significant.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:48

#12

Bleyken-Forums

It's not pure skill if they are not aiming!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:50

#13

Valtiros

"All participants are

"All participants are required to always auto target ON and must show this in the video. They must also show that their auto target toggle key is disabled so that they cannot bypass this rule. This is because some players suffer from worse connection than others, and auto target can, to an extent, counter this as the aiming is handled server side in the end.

> this is obviously a source of unskill based game. First of all , it won't compensate for people who have a bad connection : the people with a good connection will use AT too and them become better than they are and so they will be able to crush easily those with a bad connection, specially with AT brandishes for instance.
Then, I don't really think that we can call auto-aim , skill since it helps you to aim, so to compensate lack of precision, thus lack of skill.

"Because weapons that inflict statuses introduce an element of luck into the game, all participants are required to only use status weapons to make it fair for everyone. If any of their weapons only inflict status on charge, they may only use the charge of said weapon."

>I don't really understand the reasonning behind. Since status effects add a part of luck in the game, it would be more logical to forbid them instead of making them mandatory in order to make it skill-based. Or maybe , I missed the point.

"Since trinkets completely screw the balance of Lockdown, all participants must use two 5* trinkets."

>the best would be to forbid trinkets in order for every skilled player to be able to participate. Nevertheless, trinkets are not that expansive and most of good players can buy some. Furthermore, trinkets don't really modify the game ability of the player, it only makes the fight longer. So, I m ok with this rule.

"Since Unique Variants introduce an element of pay to win into the game, all participants must be able to prove that they have spent at least $100 on the game throughout their career. Additionally, all weapons must have at least one Charge Time Reduction or Attack Speed Increase Very High UV so that the poor are not put at a disadvantage."

>If we want all skilled players to be able to play in the tournament , we'd rather as illusion said ban every Uv, or at least overpowered Uvs ( high and very high)
regarding the 100£ , this rule excludes those who ardently play to get their stuff and skills in lockdown.

"Likewise, all armours and helmets must have at least one Max UV. This may be against any status, or against any damage type as long as the defence in question actually has effect. For more information on that, please see this thread, which details plenty of info about the defence mechanics of LD"

> Same, and as a nutshell I would say that your rules proposed a stuff-based tournament rather than a skill-played one.

Theirillusion and auto-target ideas look much more skill-based to me.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 03:52

#14

Diisasteer

oh !

It's a troll right ?

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:06

#15

Krakob

@Bleyu
I see you edited your post. AT is processed server side, and will therefore give a laggy player a better ability to hit, so it does help laggy players too. I'm not talking about 1000ms ping players, of course. Those are doomed. Unless they're Fayeth.

@Valtiros

this is obviously a source of unskill based game. First of all , it won't compensate for people who have a bad connection : the people with a good connection will use AT too and them become better than they are and so they will be able to crush easily those with a bad connection, specially with AT brandishes for instance.
Then, I don't really think that we can call auto-aim , skill since it helps you to aim, so to compensate lack of precision, thus lack of skill.

So you're actually proposing that I should let people actually not use AT and let their connections decide the winner?

I don't really understand the reasonning behind. Since status effects add a part of luck in the game, it would be more logical to forbid them instead of making them mandatory in order to make it skill-based. Or maybe , I missed the point.

You missed the point.

If we want all skilled players to be able to play in the tournament , we'd rather as illusion said ban every Uv, or at least overpowered Uvs ( high and very high)
regarding the 100£ , this rule excludes those who ardently play to get their stuff and skills in lockdown.

But UVs just raise the skill cap! If you have good UVs, you can attack much faster and what not, which means you can have better execution while you're also required to react faster as your opponent will be more fierce. I suppose the $100 limit isn't necessary, but I think it's good to have so that people can't get in with items they've been gifted and such, as such people are probably not dedicated to the game enough to have the skill this tournament demands.

Same, and as a nutshell I would say that your rules proposed a stuff-based tournament rather than a skill-played one.

But if we don't have this rule, people may be put at a disadvantage because their opponent has better gear than themselves!

@Diistaster
Not at all, this is 100% serious!

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 04:14

#16

Bleyken

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 04:41

#17

Valtiros

So you're actually proposing that I should let people actually not use AT and let their connections decide the winner?

Wth AT , the connexion will also decide the winner. In a fight of 2 pro players with a similar level the one with a good connection will always win ,AT or not.
Using AT doesn't allow low ping people to prevent when the ennemy is attacking, since latency make them see it after they have been hit already.
Actually , AT will only enable people who have the connection advantage to take advantage of it by hitting their opponent to death easily and quickly, being helped in their aiming.
At will only make people who already have the "first hit advantage " to carry on and finish their opponent who doesn't even see the hits coming.

You missed the point.

Then, explain please how adding a luck aspect in the game will make it more skill-based.

Actually, you won't react faster, you will only hit faster. If your opponent doesnt hit that fast ( with no asi ) you will have time to react before he hits by dodging or attacking back. Asi vh often exceed human reactions ( or at least the speed of the character) and this is not really a source of skilled fights.
Regarding the 100%, I don't really agree but I understand your point.

But if we don't have this rule, people may be put at a disadvantage because their opponent has better gear than themselves!

Sure, but I think that people who get involved in this kind of tournament are aware of what awaits them. If they don't have a suitable stuff, they won't be angry because of this.
What's more, as illusion and auto-aim said a really pure skilled tournament would be with a weak ( relatively) stuff so that everyone can have it and be equal regarding the set.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:05

#18

Krakob

@Valtiros

Regarding AT...

So you think that connection is the determining factor either way? Then there's no point in not having AT, because it's server side and does help high ping players to even out the connection disadvantage.

Then, explain please how adding a luck aspect in the game will make it more skill-based.

Having status weapons completely banned would be viable too, but since status weapons aren't actually random since there's nothing random in the world, allowing status weapons raises the skill cap as it puts RNG manipulation into the game, which is one of the hardest things you can do in this game and requires so much skill that no one has actually mastered it.

Of course you won't react faster, but you're less limited. ASI VH may be faster than human reaction speed with the quickest weapons but one should note that Lockdown is also a lot about mindgames and prediction. Planning your moves is also part of LD combat.

Sure, but I think that people who get involved in this kind of tournament are aware of what awaits them. If they don't have a suitable stuff, they won't be angry because of this.

While I do agree, I don't think that it's fair to let people who aren't pay to win participate, as it makes the tournament unfair. They may expect it but it takes focus away from the skill and puts it on the gear instead.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 06:05

#19

Whimsicality

This is the finest can of bait I ever done witnessed, and it hooked on perfectly.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:05

#20

Krakob

Are you suggesting that this is a troll thread? Whimsicality, I am offended. What in the world could make you think this isn't serious?

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 07:36

#21

Whimsicality

You are correct. I was wrong. I am but a lowly casual who cannot comprehend the greatest.

But you forgot to mandate that all who wear Chaos must equip at least one CTR VH Haze Bomb.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 08:39

#22

Zkpc

maybe you are serious about this tourney thread, i don't know really. but status affliction itself isn't 100% guaranteed, making everyone use status inflicting attacks still does not eliminate the luck factor.

i know you aiming to eliminate putting poor people at a disadvantage, but why not go to the other end and make everyone use the same cheaper gear? (with AT if you wish to reduce server side lag issues) if everyone has the same weapon, same armor, same trinkets, then other than server side lag there aren't many other important factors (luck, etc.) to get in the way of skilled play.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:04

#23

Krakob

I'm without a doubt 110% serious about this. The luck factor is non-existent, using statuses is actually the extremely complicated art of using RNG manipulation. Therefore, this tournament allows its participants to reach skill levels beyond what any other tournament allows.

I could make people use cheaper gear, but then they'd die faster, move slower, and matches would have a lower skill cap. Therefore, it's only logical to exclude people who don't have the best gear as they are unable to reach the highest level of skill, which is what this tournament is all about. I don't want people who are disadvantaged, and I don't want people who aren't reaching their full potential.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 08:58

#24

Zkpc

if status attacks inflicted

if status attacks inflicted their status 100% of the time on hit there would be no luck. but that is not the case here. both people using polaris can both land 1 shot, yet only 1 person might be shocked. explain to me how that is not luck based?

ok i see your premise now for the gear selection. but i think this kind of play won't really be representative of what most people consider "skillful" play unless you are using your own definition. when i imagine status attack abuse i imagine polaris spamming and CTR VH brandish charging which to me are both generally unskilled ways of playing lockdown.

edit: do you mean status generation is pseudorandom?

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:04

#25

Krakob

Yes, there's no thing such as true randomness in computers. Random numeric generation is often handled by using the current time as a seed for the number generation and therefore, it's possible to flawlessly execute status infliction, should you know how to time it perfectly. There could be other factors involved as well but nothing is truly random so manipulation is possible.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 09:34

#26

Zkpc

i'm no programmer but timing status attacks to match a pseudorandom number generator definitely does not sound like typical, practically possible skill in SK to me, or something that even 1% of the SK population has the knowledge to do. in effect i think this aspect of RNG is not sufficient to support use of status-only attacks. but ill see how the tournament goes :)

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 11:26

#27

Theirillusion

Is Gran Faust allowed even though only the second swing has a chance of inflicting curse?

Theoretically if someone wanted to join and had spent $100 on opening boxes and winded up with nothing more than 500k cr from the profit. But also has all the required UVs but gotten from merchanting and farming. Would that person be able to join without proving having spent $100?

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 12:40

#28

Deleted-Knight

Since we now know Krakob is serious.

1. I do think the $100 rule is silly. Spiral knights is designed so that (with the exception of OCH weapons), every weapon a p2p player can acquire a f2p can acquire as well. Besides, the amount of time/money you put into the game as a whole is not necessarily related to your performance in Lockdown.

Restrictions should only apply when only one player has access to something that both players agree is an advantage. The idea is nobody wants to give themselves a disadvantage. So if you make a valid argument for why none of your equipment can compete with your opponent's, he will have to accommodate. Otherwise, you will pick the loadout that is most suitable and go with it.

EX:
One guy has a Storm driver and the other guy has a valiance. Storm driver guy says valiance has more range, more bullets per clip. Valiance guy says storm driver deals shock. Both are valid points about how the other guy has an advantage.
However, if the Valiance guy owns a Storm driver himself, then he must use the Storm driver instead. Likewise if Storm guy owns Valiance he must use that instead. This is because they have no right to complain about the other person's advantage if they can access the same advantage.
If they both agree that the Storm's status is balanced against Vali's dps, then there's no reason to force them to ditch either.

3. I don't think AT will do much to mitigate connection differences. In my experiences, connection hurts the defender/dodger more than the attacker. Your best shot would be to encourage the use of trinkets and ban uber damage dealing weapons. This will make connection hiccups less significant on the overall outcome.

Alternatively you can have a third-party judge give bonus points for attacks that demonstrate strategy over speed. For example, hitting someone from behind rather than just outspeeding them from the front. The bonus points will be translated into extra damage that is subtracted from the opponent's health after the match is over.
The problem is the judge may be biased and there's a lot of human error.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 12:47

#29

Valtiros

Having status weapons

Ok, I understand what you mean. Yet, I think that nobody has unknowledged the parameters of status inflincting.
Besides, SK is no turn-based strategy like pokemon. During the fight, every frame is important and you have to focus on the ennemy , you cant pay attention to other parameters. I think that all pro players focus on fighting skill rather than RNG manipulation.

The real problem with asis is that they enable you to combo the opponent very easily.
If you have an asi vh DA/GF or even acheron ( since you want to allow auto aim) once you gave the first hit, it will be totally impossible for the target to escape the combo , no matter how skilled they are.
I don't mention AT acheron asi vh which are one of the worst thing in lockdown regarding skill and frustration.

I don't really agree but I understand your point of view. Ok.

Regarding AT...

As Bleyu said, AT improves more those with a good connection than those with a bad one.
And the problem with AT is that you call it a "skill-based tournament" and Auto aim is absolutely everything but skill-based!

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 13:08

#30

Theirillusion

It's funny when people give examples of theoretical matches in this tournament with weapons that are not allowed.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 13:28

#31

Holy-Nightmare

A truly even match would have

A truly even match would have everyone in 4star mighty cobalt sets (master blast bomb, master blaster, and ascended calibur) as the same class with no UVs/trinkets/AT on a map that doesn't show recon footsteps or have floor traps/snowballs.

This would remove the AT argument, RNG status argument, Pay to win factor, and type advantage factor.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 13:45

#32

Retequizzle

krackerjack you should put this in the OP so all the spanish kids know it's okay, i actually think one of them volunteered to pose for this one

also can i enter, i mean if you need proof i broke into fort knox to afford to play SK i can go find the newspaper clipping or something?????

if it makes any difference batman and robin almost caught me, you can even ask them yourself

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 15:06

#33

Mitzhawk

Me like what me see XD.Maybe i shall join the tournament :).But sadly lately the latency had been very bad @_@

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:03

#34

Krakob

@Zkpc
Exactly! This is why statuses are a must: the very few who know how to manipulate RNG are those who are the most skilled, and those are the ones who deserve glory.

@Theirillusion
Yes, GF is allowed. That said, you must always see a combo through, otherwise you're putting yourself at a disadvantage and you will be disqualified for not having the sufficient skill required to participate in this tournament.

If you can convince me in any other way that you are one of the absolutely best players around, you may participate. I feel like purchases in game would be the easiest way but other ways can work, too. Proof could be something like the following:

Being known to always use AT, as we all know AT helps fight even the slightest latency, and makes you preform objectively better in 98/100 1v1 situations, when speaking of swords.
Showing video proof of you being able to consistently manipulate RNG and inflict statuses several times in a row.

I shouldn't say too much, though. Be creative!

@Auto Target

O:CH is available to free to players, too. It's been for quite a while, really.
I do think the time and money affect your ability to play. Yes, one can have played not so much and be skilled and have played much and not be so skilled but generally, playing much makes you a better player. Since we all know that time is money, and skill comes with practice, which takes time, we can conclude that people who spend a lot of money on this game are skilled. It's simple logic, really!

2. I don't think the equipment specifics matter (UV, AT, etc.) as long as there is agreement. That is, both players have to agree to a standard for their match. If someone believes they can do better without AT than with AT, they should be allowed to go without. However, they can't force the other person to do the same.
Restrictions should only apply when only one player has access to something that both players agree is an advantage. The idea is nobody wants to give themselves a disadvantage. So if you make a valid argument for why none of your equipment can compete with your opponent's, he will have to accommodate. Otherwise, you will pick the loadout that is most suitable and go with it.

Once again, we return to my argument about the skill cap. The better UVs you have, the higher is your potential. Faster weapons means faster counters, etc. That's why I'm only allowing absolute top tier UV'd players, because those are without a doubt the most skilled.
More or less the same goes for AT. Since AT more or less enhances your capabilities in 1v1 situations, it allows a player to come closer to their full potential, which is what this tournament is about. I don't want any ignorant fools who actually think that they can aim better than the server!

EX:
One guy has a Storm driver and the other guy has a valiance

Let me stop you right there. Valiance is banned from the tournament since it doesn't inflict a status.

Well, just because you have worse connection doesn't mean you can't be an attacker. Anyway, at high level striker v striker, the attacker/defender roles are entirely blurred out.

I think this is a bad idea. The tournament should purely be about providing results, not providing ideas for playing. Besides, it's hard for a third party to enter the mind games of two players.

@Valtiros

I disagree. Attention is one of the most important aspects of being a good player in a competitive game and being able to pay attention to how to time RNG manipulation in addition to everything else that takes place in the game.

DA and Acheron are banned. Any other Brandishes may only be charged. As for GF, the rules require you to always combo so why is it a problem? Anyway, that adds further depth because the opponent must predict your moves. Playing the game before it takes place, y'know.

I disagree but at this point, we've said what we have to say and we're just comparing opinions so let's not go further. It's not like people play better without AT, anyway.

@Holy Nightmare
That's arguable. Having such lowly gear limits your execution heavily, if you ask me.

@Retequizzle
Sorry man, you'll have to supply the newspaper yourself.

@Mitzhawk
Good to hear, but keep in mind that you must qualify for it. Please see the OP for rules.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 16:06

#35

Blue-Flood

I love you guys :) Put me

I love you guys :) Put me down as participating! I love dominating people with my AT status inflicting carbine. It's pretty skill based.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 16:18

#36

Whimsicality

But wait! What about control schemes and framerates?

Certainly having the highest frame rate is a definite advantage over someone playing on a toaster. All participants should prove that their build can run at least 200 FPS at any given time, specifically when there are at least 8 Polaris bullets on the screen. And having the chat overlay the team UI? Disgraceful. Your computer can't possibly be optimized for full skill if your display size is as small as a deck of cards. The better your PC is, the more potential you have. Bonus points for macros and other ToS-breaking programs!

And having full analog control with a gamepad or mouse turns those poor arrow key players into a stick in the mud! Arrow Key players are still left with only 8 directions to Auto Target as opposed to the full 360 degree spectrum. Tell me, how will you accommodate for this display of pure skill?

I would love to participate, but alas my gear doesn't meet these top-tier true pro standards. Don't even have a working PC to begin with. What a horrible display of skill.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:02

#37

Krakob

@Blueflood I can do that, as

@Blueflood
I can do that, as long as you have the gear for it and proof of skill!

@Whimsicality
You have a good point. However, I believe that 200 FPS is a bit excessive, as few monitors are able to output such a high refresh rate either way. 60 should suffice.

Macroing and breaking the ToS should not at all be permitted. This tournament is about skill, not cheating!

Good point about the arrow keys, also.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 16:48

#38

Holy-Nightmare

@ Krakob's response

Limited maybe, fair yes.

Besides, since no one is bringing HP trinkets in my theoretical match people would still die in 3-6 sword hits (varies by class choice).

@ whimiscallity

I have to agree, being a veteran player in AQW I have noticed that whoever's character has the better connection in PVP usually lands the first blow (and stun) and wins the match.

The AT argument about ping is pretty much like this, better connection equals more hits.

Sun, 07/06/2014 - 23:20

#39

Mitzhawk

Hmmm

I think i didnt spend 100$ flat on game thought ...maybe 75$ or sumthing...I dont have any ctr vh or asi vh but i have asi high on my 3 swords i usualy use ...does it counts?I also have nameless with normal max and bkc with normal high but both have 3UV on them.
So my usual gear would be:
bkc 3 uvs (norm high) ;
nameless 3 uv(norm max)(it frikin make me very tanky i can say);
(shit i dont usualy use status weapons except gf)
GF(duh)(asi high);
polaris(lets make it fair and sqare)(asi high);
(now what?... uhm....)
hail driver(asi low);
storm driver(asi low);
dual 5* hp trinks(yep...);
Id use ff and voltedge but both with asi high and polaris asi high so it would be a whole asi high loadout ...but it has to inflict status effect >.>
Well this is it ...maybe i am allowed(hope so).

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:03

#40

Krakob

Sorry, Mitz. Your UVs are not up for the job.

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 01:18

#41

Deleted-Knight

Krakob, So I originally wrote

Krakob,
So I originally wrote a legitimate response then realized your tongue may be so firmly planted in your cheek that it would be a waste of time.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:02

#42

Krakob

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but this tournament is not a joke.

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 04:42

#43

Valtiros

@ Krakob How many people do

@ Krakob How many people do you think can fulfill the requirement to get in the tournament?
Most of classic pro weapons don't inflict status such as ff btb GF/DA or brandishes for the AT users because pros don't rely on status to be good. You are expecting people to use weapons they are not used to and to have them with Vh Uvs let alone!

Weapons allowed:
Hail driver
Storm driver
Magma driver
Polaris
Callahan
Obsidian carbine
Biohazard

Fang of vog
Saduraska
Triglav
Flamberge
Rigadoon
Dread venom striker
Glacius
combuster
voltedge
Mighty frozen cleaver
frozen great cleaver

Sscintillating stun shards
shocking salt bomb
Big Angry Bomb
Irontech Destroyer
Graviton Vortex
Electron Vortex
Obsidian Crusher
Ash of Agni
Scalding Hot Cocoa
Shivermist Buster
Jack Froster
Stagger Storm
Venom Veiler
Humbug Hazer
Voltaic Tempest

As you see, regarding sword no weapon but brandishes are viable in lockdown ( with AT )
so, about swordmen you will only have ctr AT brandish charge fights which is really not what we can call the most "skilled" of even " pretty"
Then, you will have only gunners who practice RNG manipulation. admittedly, it could be a interesting tourney but it will exclude all those who are not crazy about guns.
And about bombers they will be totally disavantadged against all those gunners.

Also, it looks as if you have your proper definition of "skill".
Skill has absolutely no link with equipement. Skill is not battle efficiency. by giving better stuff you absolutely don't increase the skill part, you just increase the battle efficiency of the player. And you even decreases the skill part because you make the game easier.
The harder the game is, the more skill-based it is.

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 04:51

#44

Valtiros

I mean.. a tourney Mitzhawk

I mean.. a tourney Mitzhawk can not join it...
I wonder who can..

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 05:52

#45

Bleyken-Forums

Contri can

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 05:57

#46

Theirillusion

I could join if I wanted I think. Oh wait, I didn't spend $100.

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 05:57

#47

Zkpc

i agree w/ valtiros. you are not augmenting skill with all of this gear, but only your playing ability and there is a huge difference between the two.

Sat, 07/12/2014 - 06:02

#48

Krakob

@Valtiros
You seem to be forgetting GF, as well as the fact that there are several other weapons that are entirely viable for the highest level of play. But hey, you already listed them!

Of course bombers will be disadvantaged, bombs are inherently bad for 1v1.

The harder the game is, the more skill-based it is.

I agree entirely, and if people have gear that allows them to act quicker, the game reaches a higher level of play.

@Zkpc
Let's make two examples.
A: two players with regular 5* gear are fighting each other with the same weapons
B: two players with perfect gear are fighting each other with the same weapons

In A, the players aren't required to react as fast due to the lower speed that worse gear comes with.
In B, the players are required to act faster because their opponent is able to act faster just as well, which makes execution speed a crucial step in the combat.

Is it not clear as the day? Clearly, good gear means you're a better player and I want the best in this tournament.

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 08:46

#49

Mitzhawk

@Krakob

that rly is some Science

Mon, 07/07/2014 - 17:47

#50

Deleted-Knight

I just want to point out:

@Valtiros
You seem to be forgetting GF, as well as the fact that there are several other weapons that are entirely viable for the highest level of play. But hey, you already listed them!

When the rules state:
If any of their weapons only inflict status on charge, they may only use the charge of said weapon.

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Krakob's fair and square pure skill 1v1 tournament