@Sonosukes want to join me on the couch then?
/shakes a bucket of marshmallows
@Sonosukes want to join me on the couch then?
/shakes a bucket of marshmallows
Alright. *hops onto couch with Pi*
Oh no doctor! The patients don't need anymore ranting gas!
If this 'soul' you are asking me to descibe is consciouness itself. Then it is simply the eletrical bombardment of the millions upon millions of neurones in your brain. It is a complex sensory organ, evolved over the years to give human the advanced level of self awareness.
Now before you say 'something this complex cannot exist due to mere chance', let's just look at the facts, human is by no means the pinnicle of evolution:
-Human eyes are more poorly constructed than that of an eagle or owl, yes, our eyes have an inferior resolution compare to theirs.
-There are useless organs on the human body, such as appendix and the male nipples. (yes, if you are a guy, your nipples litterally do nothing)
-Human are not capable of biological immortality, something which Tardigrades and Lobsters are capable of. Yes, they can in theory live forever.
-Human's nose, I think you already knew this one, are far less powerful than dogs' and sharks'.
-Human females have the hardest time giving birth in all mammals. It is not the ladies' fault, it is just the price we paid for walking on two legs.
-Human cannot survive suspended animation or hybernation as our ciculatory system are not like that of a frog or a bear.
-Human cannot hear super sonic frequencies while fruit bats can and they can use it to guide them in the dark.
I know many christians out there like to brag about the fact that we are made in god's image and we are somehow superior to all other animals on earth. But let me just remind you this, all the facts above are true and they shows that human are by no means special. Ants and Bees have built great underground colonies and hives long before we even built a mud hut. Dolphins and monkeys can also express themselves with sound and facial expression when our ancestors were just doodling in a cave.
If you still believes that soul exist, than please tell me how it interact with our body, what interface does it use to manipulate us to do what we do? And where was this soul millions of years before I was even born? Dwelling this realm I guess?
This thread is pretty much wall of text simulator 2014. I wish I had the patience to read through all this but I really don't.
And honestly in the end, does it really matter? We live, we die. All of that we know. We don't know what happens afterwards, and each person should have their right to believe what they want as long as it doesn't directly affect the wellbeing of others. Radical religious persons are as destructive as radical non-religious persons.
More or less it boils down to this: why are you nice to other people? Well, my reason is because I like when people are nice to me. In my own personal opinion, if you need faith, community, or laws to be a reasonable person, that's an issue that you need to sort out with yourself. If you enjoy community, seek faith, or love the safety of laws while still being a decent human being, then good on you.
"If you still believes that soul exist, than please tell me how it interact with our body, what interface does it use to manipulate us to do what we do? And where was this soul millions of years before I was even born? Dwelling this realm I guess?" Well first we would have to know the definition of the word , "Soul".(Not a rant against you.)
Maybe It is just a metaphor.
My two cents, or perhaps two dollars:
You can't get faith by logical reasoning. You can't get faith by someone convincing you. You can't get faith by going to church, performing special rituals, etc. Faith is a personal conviction, and no matter what somebody else or what you yourself believe or want to believe, you can't willfully generate faith. This applies to faith in anything, including God.
Religion is not the same thing as faith. Religion is a human institution in which people who claim to share the same faith associate themselves. You can be religious and not have any particular faith in God. You can also have faith in God, but don't have a religion to identify with.
If faith were a passion for reading, religions would be book clubs. Every club has its perks and downsides, but people tend to choose the one that fits most closely with their passions. People who don't like reading can go to book clubs and end up acquiring a passion for reading. People who like reading can go to book clubs and lose their passion for reading, perhaps because they don't like how club members treat the reading process. Finally there are people who just don't read unless they really have to. Naturally those people dislike book clubs.
There is no point in discussing and comparing religions (from a metaphysical point of view). I think a more interesting question is "where should people put their faith? and why?". Because let's be honest, you must have faith in some things, or you won't be able to participate in the argument.
For the record: My faith lies first in God, and then in my own intuitive capacities. Whether that is true in reality is still unclear, and perhaps never will be.
Hey, sorry I’ve taken so long to post responses. This is all stuff for page one. Not sure how much I will do for page two. Anyways, here it is.
sonosuke, I know your not ignorant and stubborn like that guy with the SK is bankrupt thread, PLEASE graveyard this
making this was like giving people blitzes , setting them in vana, and they're not supposed to kill him
Voh, I would graveyard this, but then one of two things would happen (or both (or option 3)):
1. People would continue posting even though it's in Graveyard. As that is, for the most part, not allowed, then there's option 2
2. They would go back to having these discussions on threads that aren't meant to be discussion pools for religion, like some of the Roleplay threads.
But what about option 3? It could be anything, but the most go-to choice after 1 and 2 would be making another thread like this, for this. So I'd rather have something be discussed in a more controlled enviroment than have it be all over the place.
Okay, I am not sure what you are trying to get out of me, but still, the fact that you responded to my posts deemed you atleast better than Thinslayer.
How can philosophies completely opposite of each other, so radically different and opposed to one another both be equal?
I can't answer this question unfortunately, just like I will never understand why a black man will get so angry when a non-blackman says the word 'N*gger' or why Muslims deemed pigs filthy and even unholy when the Chinese considers them a necessity in daily meals. There are things in this world that you will never be able to understand (like women). I cannot crack your skull open and dig into your brain to see what you are thinking just as much as the next guy (unless the next guy is Yuriko Omega), so in the end, even if 'Right and wrong' is real and they are needed for a society to even exist, this moral will always be different from person to person.
You claim right and wrong do not exist, yet you continue to contradict yourself. If right and wrong do not exist, how did Hitler commit crimes and why should anyone care if he committed atrocities? If right and wrong do not exist, what makes someone a monster?
Again, you are trying to argue with a post that wasn't responding to you, if it says @XXXX and that name isn't yours, you don't need to get out of your way in order to give me a hard time. When I am arguing with you, I am assuming 'right and wrong' do not exist, and even if I am right, why wouldn't you think Hitler is a monster?
This guy is small, deformed and crazy, any sane human being would want to stay the hell away from this guy (Hitler) or at least make sure that he never harms other normal people, again, Moral does not need to apply here. Hitler is different from us, and we as organisms have developed this natural defensive instinct when it comes to things that are different from us, I don't need to go into the details but isolating or killing a mutant can assure the specie's survival and a stable genome, survival of the fittest, again, no right or wrong was ever involved in deeming Hitler a monster. I can also classify any US/Ally soldiers who ever participated in combat a monster too, which in some people's eyes are true.
Also, the UN was created with the hope of helping to prevent another global conflict like WWII –something Hitler helped to start.
And let's not forget who were the ones that laid a massive debt and the treaty of versailles on Germany after her defeat in WWI, the French and the English. The ones who rejected Hitler into Art school, the Jewish school officials at the time. Hidenberg, the chancellor before Hitler who was dumb enought to give Hitler the power he needed to become a dictator or the likes of Goring, Himmler, Geobble and his entire Waffen-SS unit, who enabled him to commite the atrocity that we now know as holocaust.
Yes, you can say that most of them are indirectly responsible for WWII, but even then they are all just as guilty as Hitler for enabling such a man to succeed in ending so many lives, Alucard puts it the best, "The only thing required for Evil to triumph, is for Goodmen stoodby and do nothing."
However, doing some good things does not just diminish the evil we have done.
Yes, and I never said once Hitler is a saint for the things he have done and his good deeds somehow whipped out his bad deeds from my head, but even then, Hitler is dead, we can't resurrect the guy just to beat him up, there is no point in cursing a deadman any further when his corpses have long decayed into ashes. Instead of remembering Hitler's atrocities, remember the lives he ended, from his own soldiers who were only following orders to the innocent civillians.
There can only be one truth; that’s what makes it truth.
So why is there Yaweh, Allah, Zeus, Vishnu and Odin? Surely if like you said that there is only one truth, then shouldn't we all believe or disbelieve in a single god instead of having all these variations? Just like me saying, 'I like chocolate cake! it is my favourite!', I made this statement thinking that it is the truth without tasting all the cakes from every corner of the earth, so who am I to say that chocolate cake is my favourite? Maybe there is a cake sitting in the corner of the world that will fit my taste even better than chocolate cake did.
Or heck, if God one day revealed himself to us and then we realized that he had Yaweh's voice, Allah's temper, Zeu's beard, Vishnu's skin colour and Odin's hair style? Wouldn't we all be somewhat correct about god? Or rather, the fact that all of us were decieved in one way or another.
If everything is grey, then choices and their consequences lose their importance.
How can greys be easier than black and white? Say if you and your sibling are determined to end each other's life and the one who survives gains their father's favour. Which one is it then? Kill your sibling? Sure, you get your father's approval, but you lost your own flesh and blood in the process. Intentionally let your sibling kill you? That is rather noble, however, you are going to pay it with your life. Pacifize your sibling and stop the fighting? That is probably the 'best' outcome but still, your father will not approve neither of you and your sibling may grudge you for that. So in the end, all three grey choices have severe consequences involved.
Perhaps there is a moral I hold above another that will influence my decision. Nevertheless, the existence of right and wrong is still present even if the choice is not purely right on one side and purely wrong on the other.
Fine, I will give you that one, but I hope you also realize that this 'best choice' in your mind may not always be the 'best outcome'. In some cases, a 'best outcome' simply cannot be achieved or it came at the expense of others (or your self), there will allways be elements that are out of your control, or someone within your group had other opinions and you made the choice based off your companion's influence and tried to achieve an outcome that will equally benefit both you and your companion(s), this applies to Marriage, fighting in an army or working in an office building.
Nevertheless, the (Hitler's) poison is still there, just like it is in our own pots.
Humanity make mistakes (lots of them), but who are we to let these mistakes hold us back? We can always make new soups and pour the old ones away or simply filter them, together, we can count on each other to make a better future, not best, but better.
Then it isn’t a Christian’s fault if they do the same to a homosexual or a Muslim. Neither is it a white person’s fault if they profile a black person, or a Mexican, or an Asian. Likewise, the opposite is equally okay. Stereotyping police officers, political candidates based on party affiliation, cultures –not anyone’s fault then
This is indeed not anyone's fault, it is our fault as a whole, all of us. Stereotype happens when one group lack the understanding of another group and until we begin to understand others better, stereotype will always present, whether it is between, Gender, Age, race or nationality. But we can lessen the effects of these stereotypes by learning and get in touch with those who are not within our group.
Living in the multi culture country that I am in currently (hint: it is not USA), I always have the impression that Indians (not to be confused with native americans) are always convinient store owners and cheap scapes in general, this stereotype was removed when I worked in the local Pizza Hut where most employees were Indians, they were hard working people and all of them are far more skilled and experienced than me. We all working under the same roof, there were no prejudices.
@Anyone else
OMG, Midnight, stop your ranting!!! These wall of texts are killing me!!!
I learned from the legendary wall mage himself, Arcknightdelta, I think I am his best apprentice :)
Well, I am almost done anyway, if noone else have anything more to say, then I think it is time to put this thread away and move on with our lives.
I initially thought this was a thread dedicated to the discussion of whether God exists or not. I now know this is not so.
This thread is actually about Midnight sharing his (her?) philosophical beliefs in a way that ended up offending others. Eventually it digressed to people nitpicking at Midnight's points and Midnight nitpicking back.
@Everyone debating with Midnight
You aren't going to change his mind. From his posts I can tell he's one of those extremely logical types (I would guess INTJ personality). Arguing in this manner is not productive whatsoever. Neither side gains any new insight because both sides are thoroughly convinced the other side is wrong. There's also no practical implications to the argument. Midnight kicked off the thread with a sarcastic statement of his philosophy. That's not a debate. That's just him saying his opinion. If you disagree, just say so and move on.
In summary, I agree with Thinslayer on this one. This thread has been a philosophical discussion in which the participants are arguing instead of bouncing ideas back and forth.
@Midnight-DJ
If you would like a legitimate debate, please state your premise clearly. Is your premise "The world will be a better place if religion was eradicated"? If it is, then please state that explicitly and make arguments only pertaining to that premise.
Right now you are just coming off as an angry person. I mean angry in the psychological sense, not emotional. You're telling people you have a strong disdain for religion, but you aren't telling them what you want them to do about it. It's like saying "I hate burgers" to everyone you meet and listing everything you hate about burgers. Okay, but what's your point? Lots of people hate burgers. Do you want to shut down all the fast food restaurants or something?
@Everyone
I think we can all agree that when a debate devolves into rebutting every point your opponent makes, it is no longer worth talking about. It's not about proving the other person wrong, it's about showing them why you think you are right.
If someone says something that offends you, say so then leave the scene. The worst thing to do is saying something that could potentially offend them back.
Is your premise "The world will be a better place if religion was eradicated"? If it is, then please state that explicitly and make arguments only pertaining to that premise.
The thing is, I don't know, and neither am I to judge whether or not the world is better off without religion. And even if I do have substancial evidence for the fact that religion is ruinning our world (there are plenty, and I have already listed them in the past.) I doubt any of you here will change your mind. So all I want the Christians to do, is to judge their religion like they judged Hitler, it has done both good things and as well as bad things for mankind.
Right now you are just coming off as an angry person. I mean angry in the psychological sense, not emotional. You're telling people you have a strong disdain for religion, but you aren't telling them what you want them to do about it.
I am angry, I am angry at the fact I cannot change everyone's opinion on religion, in the end, everyone is jsut a narrow iminded ndividual with their own two cents on everything. And I have made it quite clear on MY FIRST POST here that I never wanted to have this conversation with christians, it is pointless and I already knew from the get go that people like Markus and Galax will cut in and make this thread longer than it had any reason to be.
Even if I do tell you want I want to do with religion, will you conform to my will? Of course you won't, you have your own opinions and your own philosophies, I detested Thinslayer's philosophy and I sure detest Markus's as well, but they still believe in their philosophies even at the end of the day. Nothing changed, nothing was improved, all the talks were for nothing, NOTHING.
--Final word--
I have no distain for religion, I won't get upset over a fictional story or a fictional character, just like I won't draw my self trying to rape Gwen, a RP character Thislayer created just because he offended me IRL. Her character should be judged seperately from her creator. So likewise, I don't hate religion, but I do hate what some people make of it.
@Midnight:
What you just wrote was a lot more insightful than everything else you wrote on this thread!
For what is worth, I agree that Christians should acknowledge the negative impacts Christianity has had on the world. If it gives you any comfort, many Christians do (myself included). However, as I mentioned in my first post, Christianity as a religion is not equivalent to the Christian faith.
Hitler, as a person can be judged however which way you want, but the ideology that there is a "superior race" is a black/white undebatable issue. You must make that distinction with religions as well. The people and the ideology should be separately considered.
That being said, you can see why people like Thinslayer and Markus could get offended by your first post on this thread. Your satire was not directed at the institution of Christianity but at the basic tenets of the faith. Regardless if you intended it that way or not, it was trolling.
Also, I want to point out that "talks" will always be "for nothing" if you don't even have a premise. Since nobody knows what you're arguing for, of course you won't be able to convince them. You just end up spouting opinions back and forth. It's like making a sales pitch without giving any hints that you're trying to sell something and end up selling none of your product.
Since Thinslayer offended you, I think he should apologize. However, since you later offended him, you will need to apologize as well.
@Sonosuke
I think you should change this thread into "Thinslayer and Midnight-DJ burying the hatchet thread" then graveyard it.
If you want a real thread for discussing religion make one that has a specific claim to be debated. Even something as loaded as "Religion is for Idiots" is better than having no structure.
Ah yes, you have a point there, DK. Then again, I probably should have worded it better, saying this is more for ranty people.
I should graveyard this and have someone else make a new thread.
@Galax
He said "people like Thinslayer and Markus", meaning you as well. Don't go assuming you aren't important if you aren't mentioned by name.
And don't post in the Graveyard on a thread that was moved to the Graveyard.
@Sonosuke's LOL.