I need an elemental weapon...

37 replies [Last post]
Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite

Not really a new recruit, but I can certainly use some help. As the title implies, I need an elemental weapon, but I don't know which I should go with.

So far, I have Faust, DBB, Plasma Capacitor, and Silversix as my primary weapons. I also have the Volcanic Demo set as my armor.

I know I already have a Silversix, but my aim is terrible, and I usually turn AT off because it interferes with Faust. I also know that I already have Plasma Capacitor, but that bomb can't really be used in Shock Themed levels.

Preferably, I'd like something that isn't a gun, but I don't know what.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I'm going to go with combuster or glacius. The alchemers require even more aim, and polaris/mixmaster are shock themed weapons which you already seem to have covered. Deadly crystal bomb....... would not be a good experience, and you would be better off using nitronome or dark briar barrage, given your charge time reduction. Divine avenger is the only other real option, and it would work out if you preferred it, but the brandishes are a bit easier to use and more damaging.

Own-Deschng's picture
Own-Deschng
Voltedge is good cause of

Voltedge is good cause of shock status
If you are playing shock theme lvl you can get combuster

Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
Okay, so basically, my

Okay, so basically, my concrete choices are either Glaicus, Combuster or Avenger. (I don't have the patience to get a Voltedge). Since I prefer ice over fire, that narrows my choices to either Glacius or Avenger.

Ice status is really useful, but I'm already pretty used to using heavy swords. Also, DA can bypass chasms. But the Glacius is a whole lot faster and the overall combo does more damage.

ME AM CONFUSED.

Own-Deschng's picture
Own-Deschng
Well i tried both glacius and

Well i tried both glacius and avenger
Well avenger is quite good for its knockback
So its pretty good for firestorm citadel and those presitge missions like black kat event
But
I prefer glacius cause the charge deals lots of damage
But combuster is better because it rides the full wave of explosion

Bopp's picture
Bopp
obligatory

If you're looking for a sword, then you might want to give my detailed sword guide a read.

The elemental bombs are not really damage-oriented, although they are useful for spreading statuses, etc.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
The Divine avenger is a great

The Divine avenger is a great sword especially when paired with your Shock Bomb since the shock status slows down monsters and gives you time to charge up.

While it is true that brandishes do deal more damage vs single targets there is no brandish that can deal more damage to the huge hordes of slags in FSC.

Out of 20 slags a brandish can hit about 7-9 even if they are grouped up, a DA charge can hit just about all of them.

Tip: The charge attack hitboxes spawn behind you so keep you back off the wall, other than that this weapon has no outstanding flaws

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

It really doesn't matter which one you choose out of the three, as they all basically fulfill the same function. So just ask yourself which one seems most awesomest to you and go with it.

Glacius = strong charge, capable of freezelocking them forever, works well with other ice weapons such as shivermist buster

Combuster = strong immediate damage and fire damage, better for strafing with a hit and run tactic, lets enemies "ride the wave" for more damage

Divine Avenger = good knockback, when used correctly is very safe and reliable, charge attack is one of the most damaging but gets stuck in walls.

Almond-Riddle's picture
Almond-Riddle
This is Keepscaite

I think I'm going to go with the Divine Avenger. As I've said before, my aim sucks total balls, so the Divine Avenger's triple swords gives me more leeway. I already have 20 Jelly Gems at the moment anyway, so making a Divine Avenger would save me chump-change (4.5k) and some orbs.

Also, the DA's swords can cross chasms and hit switches. Which is pretty useful.

Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

warmaster rocket hammer
5 hit possible combo with a swing, 3 hit dash (you catch up to the enemy you just hit and push them), and final spin hit with good knockback (and high flinch if you hit with most or all of the combo) and gets switches over gaps

if youre in a tight situation the dash can get you out pretty easily
(hint: cornering/wall slamming enemies gives them no chance of escape from the combo flinch)

it takes a bit of saving to get if you're free to play though

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Vohtarak

WMRH is very powerful no doubt but in FSC you aren't going to need high damage output vs single enemies, you want high damage vs crowds and the hammer can't pull this off as well as a brandish or a DA.

Krakob's picture
Krakob
@Holy Nightmare

I find this somewhat disagreeable. While it is true that it's quite hard to pull off any decent crowd damage with WRH when compared to Brandishes and DA, you can definitely get 6 hits with the dash quite consistently if you get the hang of good positioning and midstepping before the dash. Combined with the huge range of the 1st and 3rd attacks, it's definitely very potent for damaging crowds even though it probably can't outdo Brandish charge spamming.

Something popular among skilled players with weapon slots to spare is to bring a Brandish for charging against big crowds and then taking out the hammer once they start getting smaller or more concentrated damage is desired.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Oh wow, I totally forgot the rocket hammer. That's an option too, it focuses on single target damage more than the others.

Still relatively inconsequential, though I'd plan to get it eventually because of how different out is. Oh, and OCH is an incredible get.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Krakob

WMRH is a good weapon but for players who don't always have extra slots a DA or Brandish covers the desired areas quite nice, they provide solid DPS and crowd control, finishing off the stragglers in a few seconds faster isn't a real selling feature. (that doesn't mean it's any less fun)

If you have been spamming DA charges for a while and there are only 2 slags left odds are you can finish them off rather quickly.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Warmaster rocket hammer is probably the "best" elemental sword, to be honest. You can kill a bunch of slags without using a source of crowd control, but you're going to have a much harder time killing a single deadnaught without some source of high single target damage.

----------When it comes to Firestorm Citadel---------

No one cares how you fight your slags, and all methods will get the job done. The difference in time it takes to kill slags with any elemental sword is less than the time your party is probably going to waste mysteriously going AFK. These weapons aren't there for you to succeed, they're there to entertain you. You can just as easily kill slags with combuster, glacius, warmaster rocket hammer... you name it as you can with the normally requisite blitz needle that you're probably bringing entirely for the boss and trojans anyway.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
quite so

I completely agree with Fehzor. And I'm a fan of her recent rants about disorganized FSC parties.

Almond-Riddle's picture
Almond-Riddle
WRH, totally forgot about

WRH, totally forgot about that one lol. In that case, nvm the DA. I'll save up for OCH, get Dark Retribution too while I'm at it.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
sad

WRH, totally forgot about that one lol.

So I guess that you didn't check out the detailed comparison of elemental swords that I mentioned in post #5 above. :(

If you're more interested in entertainment than information, then start a forum thread. If you're more interested in information than entertainment, then try using the wiki, Steam guides, Google, etc.

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
Hooray! Bopp loves me!! <3

I think it's because people don't like the copy pasted link with predefined information, even if it's basically what we're saying verbatim. I do think that your sword guide is a good read though. Perhaps you could link to it and copy+paste the correct part of it to get people to actually look at it and help themselves... As goofy as that is.

We also never brought up the elemental tortofist. I think that it would be a good enough option if you like the attack style. So if anyone is interested, they can try out the 3* version and see if they want to invest.

We didn't bring up the fang of vog either. I think that it's a decent option as long as you have the skill to use it, and frequently use fire resistance. You'll probably want to get and keep a fov as a trophy from FSC anyway though.

Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
@Bopp

Aww, don't be sad. I did see that list once before, so I didn't bother reading it again. I just sorta assumed I still remembered most of what I needed.

No, I'm not just looking for entertainment. I really am asking for other people's opinions, I just have a really lazy and sorta lighthearted kinda personality. I'm not really looking for hard numbers so much as I'm looking for other people's thoughts and opinions.

Sure, WRH can do the most damage out of any other weapon, but it's also dangerous as f*ck to use in rooms with a lot of spikes and/or hazards. I also can't exactly imagine how I go about using something I don't even own, so that's why I'm asking other people.

Don't be sad Bopp. Turn that :( upside down ):

...wait a second....

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

Yeah the rocket hammer can be dangerous, especially at first... But it wears on you, and once you get it down safety isn't such an issue.

It's also one of the most versatile weapons- you can attack with all parts of the combo, skip the middle part of the combo, really it's whatever you need it to do.

Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

full kamikaze works well on crowds with the hammer (know when to stop though)

also to solve the deadnaught issue just stun them with a callahan first, then smack them with the hammer
alternatively run next to them as they charge and hammer them

the dashing into traps was never a problem for me, and is too easy to avoid to be counted as a danger imo

also the way to avoid the dash is first swing, tap shield, combo
so you can make it work like a normal heavy sword
that solves your dash into trap issues if you're too lazy to look around before you dash

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Vohtarak

Deadnaughts are a piece of cake, yesterday I went though at T1 legion of almire (in one of my alt accounts) with a level one calibur and a prismatech alchemer. All you need to defeat them is to bait them into charging, sidestep, and then lay a calibur charge into their back 2 or 3 times.

Vohtarak-Forum's picture
Vohtarak-Forum
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

im not the one who said they were hard, I find them easy

it was fehzor who said it would be hard

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
More the merrier

Probably the best idea would be to collect a bunch of elemental weapons

Shock/fire alchemer switching for maxing DPS and DOT

Nova driver makes a good sniping weapon

Polaris is so easy to use a Zombie could do it

Omegafist is insanely fun and excellent for constructs and slow undead

________________________________________

WMRH is great for chasing down enemies and dealing high 1v1 DPS (perfect for apocrea)

DA has heavenly area control and mass DPS

Brandishes can inflict a variety of useful statuses and have solid and quick damage

FOV can inflict fire on any of its attacks and is great for single target elimination

_______________________________________

Haze bombs are perfect for dealing a variety of status and if you can dodge ou can just melt your enemies under a mass of shock/fire/poison status combos

Deadly crystal bomb has a quick charge time and keeps enemies from getting so tightly packed that you can't move around (or through) them

Electron Vortex works great with the 3 haze bombs mentioned since a shock spasmed enemy does damage to nearby enemies the more tightly packed they are the better this works and nothing packs them better than a vortex, plus vortexes make easy setups for teammates that pay attention

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

I said very specifically-

You're going to have a much harder time killing a single deadnaught without some source of high single target damage.

I was referencing the last wave of legion of almire, where the knight must face 2 deadnauts, 4 respawning almirian cruasaders, 1 respawning silkwing, and a fist full of other zombies and turrets. This situation is marginally harder than say, any one fight in firestorm citadel.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

Too many people ignore the Leviathan blade, not only does it deal pretty high damage in an instant (up to 1k in stratum 6 without a sword boost) but it works wonders as a defensive sword, you see a brandish/DA/WMRH all leave you open to attack from behind and the sides, the Leviathan blade charge offers you (but perhaps not your teammates as much) some very appreciated protection.

In LOA the key is to finish off the Deadnaughts fast, if that isn't possible do your best to pick off the zombies and howlitzers outside the Deadnaught ring.

In FSC you can ignore the Trojans for the most part provided you can predict their moves ,which is easy in the wide open FSC rooms (wide open compared to LOA at least).

If you have an extra weapon slot then a Leviathan blade (or any spin sword) makes for a nice addition

FOV can be risky for the common Skolver and Chaos sets but works great as a hit and run weapon due to the fire damage over time.
CIV allows you to use more defensive armors while not giving up too much power plus the lack of instant knockback actually means you get more hits on charge than Leviathan charges vs mobile targets
Celestial Saber is better but it's such a pain to get
The Leviathan blade is reliable and cheap

Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
"but perhaps not your teammates as much"

That's the keyword, do not attempt to leviathan if you don't have enough damage bonus to also shut down their attack charge in party. It's far more risky for your other teammates when you're trying to save your own butt, as their slap attack evolved into dashing-slap line-attack. Unless, you don't mind giving spark to them because of your mistake (back then, I don't mind with health sharing because of my silliness).

If you're open to attack from behind and sides, then you're not really kiting that well.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Poopsie

In the last part of LOA you have enemies respawning around the deadnaughts and crusaders popping in from both sides of the room. Kiting well or not you are going to end up with enemies on all sides, even more so in a 4 man team where there isn't just one monster agro point (you in a one knight party).

There are just some places where having a defensive blade covering your back is a huge benefit to you

Much like my "surviving a blast bomber" thread staying alive with a spinsword user is pretty similar, all you really need to do is take heed when they have a charge and just shield if you feel like an enemy could get knocked towards you, if you are good at kiting then you should have full shield HP anyway (unless you run with SSB all the time you shouldn't worry too much).

____________________________

Back on topic

The only elemental weapons that you probably shouldn't get is the Hail driver (unless you plan on playing LD)

The Deadly crystal bomb is fair but you can get more damage with DR or DBB

The Stagger storm is outclassed by the Shivermist and the VT but it still has it's niche use as the only haze bomb that gives an unresisted status (since enemies can be immune to shock or freeze) (well only 4 enemies are immune to stun but that is better than nearly all themed monsters of a status type).
Note: it is a Status symbol to the community that you play LD (whether you are good or just persistent it doesn't show)

There aren't any really bad elemental swords but if you are going for heavy damage then the Glacius isn't a good choice since it's status hinders knockback on enemies that aren't immune (and combuster outdamages it on enemies that are immune to freeze). That doesn't mean being able to insta-freeze nearly any monster is bad, but in large parties freeze is usually quickly broken.

FOV is only bad if you don't plan on using the charge, the Combuster outdamages it on the regular attack (even with the lack of fire chance). If you use Chaos or Skolver (or any set without fire resist) don't aim for the FOV unless you plan on getting fire resist.

Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
FoV has always been an

FoV has always been an interesting choice for me. Since I'm wearing the Volcanic Demo set, I have a lot of fire resist on top of my VH CTR. The FoV would be a great weapon for taking out Deadnaughts and Lumbers.

But I have trouble taking down Vana. I don't have Blitz or Shiv lol, taking down Vana with just DBB is a long and painful process. I can only really fight Vana when my friends are online.

WRH comes with DR. And I reaaaally want to have DR. I really can't imagine how to use WRH at all though, I just can't imagine it. Like, how does the dash trigger? How far is the dash? Where is the dash's hitbox? Can I still do the lunge trick with it? And how do you cancel the dash?
Vohtarak already said how to cancel the charge, but I still don't get it. Doesn't shielding break your combo?

Turn-Me-On's picture
Turn-Me-On
@Keep Alright, prepare your

@Keep

Alright, prepare your tokus:

Press attack once: First swing
Press attack right afterwards (in like a .5 sec timeframe): Dash
Press attack 3rd time (.5 sec timeframe approx)

So its Swing - Dash - Swing

Dash's hitbox is literally your knight's. Its basically the knight propelling himself into the enemy. Dash hits 3 times.

Lunge trick? If you mean midstepping, then yes you can!

And to cancel the dash, just do this:

Attack - Shield - Attack - Attack

Ao it would be First swing - Shield - First swing again - last swing

Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
@Octaslash

Wow, thanks for the in-depth explanation. I think I get it now. I'm definitely getting the WRH, that dash seems really useful.

Lol yes, by lunge I did mean midstep.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
Silversix should work on Vanaduke

I think that Blitz Needle became popular for Vanaduke due to Shivermist Buster. If your goal is to keep Vanaduke frozen as much as possible, then you want to break the freeze as seldom as possible. That means delivering rare but big charge attacks, and so Blitz Needle is the obvious choice. Later, people realized that knowledge of Vanaduke's AI lets you skip the freeze altogether.

Actually, my point is that any (non-shadow) gun can be used on Vanaduke. I'm not an especially good gunner, but I've soloed Vanaduke with Argent Peacemaker, Callahan, Hail Driver, Storm Driver, Nova Driver, Polaris, Valiance, and Blitz Needle. Some just take more time than others, and hence offer you more chances to screw up. But it is definitely not true that Blitz Needle is required. Try your Silversix.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Keepscaite

Your Plasma Capacitor pairs very well with the WMRH, in fact before I got my VT I would bring my Plas cap and WMRH to the Apocrean mission, it made gathering tokens easy and it made dealing with those scarabs sooooooooo much easier.

Keepscaite's picture
Keepscaite
When I said I can't solo

When I said I can't solo Vanaduke, I mean I'm really not that good a player. It's totally possible for me to solo Vana with DBB, sometimes I actually DO manage to solo him on normal. But that's only ever happened once, and even then I had to spark twice.

Anyway, I'm going to start saving up for OCH. I already have 30k, I only need 230k more DX

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@Bopp

The way I remember it was that two people made a video where they killed vanaduke using the shivermist buster and blitz needle strategy in record time, perfectly safely... and the rest was history. A few people on the forum made blitz needles for the boss. They spread it in game, and now everyone uses blitz needle.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

This trend was probably helped along by other updates as well.

AP got changed up, Chaos became more viable, Seerus mask came out..... it just snowballs at some point....

Poopsie's picture
Poopsie
@Holy-Nightmare

Last part of LoA is still manageable (easily) with good party. It seems that you just run into too many random parties. A good party member, when taking Deadnaught / Crusader's agro, would not let deadnaught dashing loose out of their sight, instead agro him dashing in nearest corner where nobody's around, and let other party members has easier time to attack when their charge is ready to kill Deadnaught / Crusader.

There's also a role where you keep most monster's agro (which is the definition of kiting, you keep the monster attention). And other party members would follow the monster mobs slowly from behind and kills one by one using single target burst damage (mostly one shot kill it) without distracting other monsters agro (this is what I usually do, even when I accidentally takes enemy agro that I am not supposed to, I could easily dash away to reset the agro back to kiter).