Spiral Knights - Permanent Weapon/Trinket Slots And Multiple-Use Personal Color Change Usables

Permanent Weapon/Trinket Slots And Multiple-Use Personal Color Change Usables

38 replies [Last post]

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 17:17

Pawsmack

Just as the title states, I believe it would be a nice addition to the game to have permanent weapon/trinket slots and multiple-use personal color change usables. They wouldn't be replacing our current temporary weapon/trinket slots or one-time use personal color change usables, but they would just be more efficient versions available for a higher price basically. OOO's you can decide that price yourself and suit it to what would be best for you to maintain profits as well as keep the economy balanced. Overall I believe that this would make a lot of people happy considering it's a bit tedious to have to keep on getting new weapon/trinket slots every 30 days or to have to keep changing your personal color every now and then just so it will fit a new costume of yours.

You really should consider doing this as it would really help out your one of your main marketing strategies with promotions bringing in new items and accessories to the game.

Here's another cool thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/107077/

IMPORTANT: Before you post anything to argue against these ideas, read post #7.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 17:18

Pawsmack

Also...

If you're a forumer reading this, then please respond to the ideas above with your thoughts on the subject. The more support this thread gets, the more likely the chance it will be introduced and implemented into the game.

Fri, 12/19/2014 - 18:36

Imorri

@Paws +1

Nice suggestion bruh

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 19:22

Sir-Shadow-Striker

@Pawsmack GENIUS

My addition to this idea, is to be able to select a primary personal colour, for larger sections of armour colouring, and a secondary colour, for trimmings and smaller details.
Trinket/weapon slots definitely need to be made permanent.

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 19:31

Gbot-Vtwo

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 20:36

Pawsmack

@Sir-Shadow-Striker

Eh, it would take OOO's quite a bit to work on such an idea. They would have to redesign many aspects of many armors, costumes, and accessories. I think you should make another thread for that idea though. It could go somewhere if you put a little more information and thought into it.

Sat, 12/20/2014 - 21:08

Holy-Nightmare

Good for players not OOO

Perma trinket slots would definitely be put in the pay to win area. Not to mention the fact that OOO couldn't get CE from you on a monthly basis.

Even if it could be earned by the F2P's (like the OCH) I don't think OOO would do it.

Tue, 12/30/2014 - 03:16

Pawsmack

@Holy-Nightmare

"Perma trinket slots would definitely be put in the pay to win area."

Temporary weapon/trinket slots are already somewhat in the category of pay to win so your point is?

"Not to mention the fact that OOO couldn't get CE from you on a monthly basis."

And that's exactly why I stated this: "OOO's you can decide that price yourself and suit it to what would be best for you to maintain profits as well as keep the economy balanced."

"Even if it could be earned by the F2P's (like the OCH) I don't think OOO would do it."

Anything in this game is somewhat achievable without having to pay any money at all. It just depends on how hard you would like to work for it. The same could easily be applied here. I for one believe that OOO's should have done this ages ago. It's a shame that it has to even be a suggestion right now. Why is it a shame you ask?

Mainly because they release promotions quite frequently and most of them include a variety of new gear/costumes/accessories that many players flourish after. These players would be pleased to know that there are options out there like permanent weapon/trinket slots and multiple-use personal color change usables that would go along with their newly achieved promotion gear/costumes/accessories. So guess what they would do? Flourish after those too.

OOO's could really make much more profit than they currently are if they decided to do this. And once again, the price is entirely up for them to decide. I would imagine that they would go with a price that would benefit them. And when I say "benefit them" I mean they would pick a price that would last them enough years until the game died so that way they wouldn't lose any money in the end.

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 10:47

Almond-Riddle

No, it's impossible. You're

No, it's impossible. You're thinking under the assumption that there exists a price that will forever, till the end of time, permanently keep the economy balanced. There isn't, any amount that will 'supposedly' keep the game's economy afloat will not withstand the passage of time. At BEST, you'll just force OOO to push out even more promos in the long run to make up for the money lost from people buying their monthly slots.

Yes I know the current system is incredibly inefficient, but it keeps people paying. Do remember that this is OOO's job. They need money to keep the game running as well as to pay their salaries. No MMO is ever truly 'free to play'.

So even though this idea would improve the game for the players, it will make the Devs job much worse, as well as increasing their future workload (to make up for the money lost).

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 15:08

Nethergrim

Agree

Agree with Almond. There's a reason they're temporary, to keep people paying. The color changing is annoying, but hey, it's inspired some pretty cool costumes. Being forced to make the best out of the situation spark creative ideas.

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 15:38

#10

Fehzor

If they make the permanent slots costly enough, they'll make more on average than selling temporary ones.

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 18:18

#11

Nethergrim

Hmmm.

I'll still post this, but in retrospect, all I had to say was that for them to make more, all they have to do is charge > 4,800CE, but let's say it's something you have to buy right off the Supply Depot and pretend all of this wasn't for nothing.

Weapon slots, for example, cost 250CE and they last ~1 month. The same applies for trinket slots, although they cost 150CE.

*Cue Fancy Math*

250 x 12 = 3,000

150 x 12 = 1,800

Total = 4,800CE
According to the chart at http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Billing_FAQ...

The difference between 1,600CE ($4.99 USD) and 750CE ($2.45 USD) is 850CE. The difference in CE per dollar is 17CE.

The difference between 3,500CE ($9.95 USD) and 1,600CE ($4.99 USD) is 1,900CE. The difference in CE per dollar is 29CE.

The difference between 7,500CE (19.95 USD) and 3,500CE ($.9.95USD) is 4,000CE. The difference in CE per dollar is 24.CE.

The difference between 20,000CE ($49.95 USD) and 7,500CE ($19.95 USD) is 12,500CE. The difference in CE per dollar is 24CE.

The difference between 45,000CE ($99.95 USD) and 20,000CE ($49.95 USD) is 25,000CE. The difference in CE per dollar is 50CE.

The big question is where should we place 4,800CE? I made the chart, but there doesn't seem to be any pattern! So much for that. I guess we'll just estimate. I'd place it at $12.50 USD, since OOO likes round numbers. Why? Well, the last two are outliers, due to the exponential increase both price and difference in CE. That being said, 3,500/1,600 = 2.1875. 2.1875 x $4.99 = 10.915625. The difference between the original price for 3,500CE (9.95) and the calculated price is .965625. Let's try it one more time. 7,500/3,500 = 2.14285714. 2.14285714 x 9.95 = 21.3214285. The difference between the original price for 7,500CE (19.95) and the calculated price is 1.3714285. Now, let's try it with 4,800CE!

4,800/3,500 = 1.37142857 (Odd. Is there an explanation, or a coincidence?)

1.37142857 x 9.95 = 13.6457143.

The average difference between calculated price and actual price is 1.16852675, therefore, we can estimate the 'fair' value to be ~$12.50 USD.

x = what Fehzor suggested (more than they would normally make)

x > $12.50 USD

Sun, 12/21/2014 - 17:52

#12

Holy-Nightmare

A better idea would be to

A better idea would be to make multi month slots available or bundle packs of regular slots.

Tue, 12/23/2014 - 02:44

#13

Fehzor

Lol, you guys are missing the point.

The beauty of this is in what you are selling, rather than in the math. People don't play for ever, but they play like they do and that commitment glorifies and validates them as well as their drive towards completion. That quality of respect and the promise of being complete forever, is what you are selling. Not just weapon slots.

If big name players play for 3 years on average, sell the slots for 20k ce a pop. As long as you make them feel like they're making a smart decision, they'll do it and never look back, regardless of how much you're scamming them for.

MMO players are stupid like that.

Tue, 12/23/2014 - 06:04

#14

Nethergrim

Yes. I totally missed the

Yes. I totally missed the point on this one. It's an awesome idea.

Tue, 12/23/2014 - 11:35

#15

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

maybe allow you to only get one slot permanent
like you get a third weapon slot that lasts forever, but for the fourth you still need to buy temporary ones

Mon, 12/29/2014 - 07:55

#16

Pawsmack

@Fehzor

Thanks. Figured it was pointless to try and repeat myself from my previous points in this topic, but I guess all I needed to do was just a little rewording. Anyway, you guys got any opinions on the multiple-use color change usables? It feels like that half of the topic has barely received any feedback. :P

Mon, 12/29/2014 - 08:25

#17

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

Maybe make the reusable color changes cost more then single use
Like maybe 120k or 140k, as is usual with this game, there always needs to be huge price spikes

Mon, 12/29/2014 - 12:51

#18

Holy-Nightmare

Internet, Water, Electricity, phone, etc

There is a reason why several companies give you monthly/yearly bills and not permanent service for a large price, in the end it is more profitable to charge on a regular basis than just once.

Tue, 12/30/2014 - 03:15

#19

Pawsmack

@Holy-Nightmare

"There is a reason why several companies give you monthly/yearly bills and not permanent service for a large price, in the end it is more profitable to charge on a regular basis than just once."

I already defeated that argument in post #7: "And once again, the price is entirely up for them to decide. I would imagine that they would go with a price that would benefit them. And when I say "benefit them" I mean they would pick a price that would last them enough years until the game died so that way they wouldn't lose any money in the end. "

You know what I mean by that right? I mean that they would select a price that would last them for years still giving them profit. And let's face it this game is only really going to last a few more.

Tue, 12/30/2014 - 10:44

#20

Fangel

Ehh...

As of right now, the 800ce per month price for playing with all slots unlocked isn't unreasonable. That's like, a ~$3 monthly subscription fee.

Trinket and weapon slot upgrades could have extended slot upgrades though. Having 180 day and 360 day slot upgrades at about 5 and 9 times the price of the current slots would work. "Permanent" slot upgrades in this game wouldn't work too well.
The starter pack should also be upgraded with a 6-month weapon upgrade and two 1 month trinket upgrades.

Reusable colors wouldn't be a bad idea. Having them be equipped items instead of usables would allow them to show up in more places, and adds potential for personal color "effect" costumes to be put over whatever personal color you've chosen originally as a base. This mean temporary ones choose what effects can be used (thus are not obsolete), otherwise you use a costume color.

Tue, 12/30/2014 - 13:37

#21

Fehzor

Why wouldn't permanent slot upgrades work too well? Provided that it isn't ever a reasonable thing for you to buy into..... I explained above how they could be marketed and sold at unreasonable costs.

Tue, 12/30/2014 - 13:56

#22

Holy-Nightmare

Discussed in WOW apllicable here

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2416192256

Thu, 01/01/2015 - 21:21

#23

Pawsmack

@Holy-Nightmare

Are you still trying to argue that this wouldn't work or are you just expanding the field of discussion? If you're still trying to argue that it won't work for the same reasons that you stated before take one glance at half of the posts on that WoW thread.

"I'm sure they would consider it a few months before they shut their servers down."

"If Blizzard does do a lifetime subscription, I would assume that it's because they expect to die before I got my money's worth."

"If they did, it'd cost more than the anticipated lifespan of wow. That's how those things always work."

And from the very start of this thread I stated towards OOO's that they could adjust the price to however they would wish in order for it to benefit them. We keep going in circles. Just know that your argument is invalid with the points that I've raised time and time again.

Thu, 01/01/2015 - 21:46

#24

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

I like how no ones made any conversation out of my comment, makes me feel useless as usual

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 00:57

#25

Fehzor

Well if it benefits them to sell one slot, it would benefit them to sell two, and yes, of course the permanent colour changer would cost more than the single use one. I would expect them to cost an entire magnitude more... I think that five to ten thousand energy for each colour would be perfect as well as fair. The ability to log on and choose your colour for your outfits whenever you felt like it, no reoccurring fees attached, would be in high demand... making it affordable to average players that don't just blow 50K crowns would be a must as well.

The reason I didn't comment on yours was because there was a much more significant idea to contend with- "But this is basically many players' subscriptions, and people probably pay for that over and over and Three Rings of SEGA would lose money and that would be bad..." which is absolutely a good point, but also a relatively fallacious one as I explained above.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 04:31

#26

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

My point about only one of each slot isn't that "it works for both"
The point was to keep the "subscription" but lessen it by a certain amount

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 08:48

#27

Holy-Nightmare

You don't get it SK doesn't

You don't get it

SK doesn't need a one time dump of cash, they need a fixed reliable income. For every player that gets a Permanent slot set there is one less player doling out Monthly CE. In the long run a steady cash flow wins out.

Perma Accounts are handed out either early to help with Development costs or as a last effort to grab cash before the ship sinks.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 16:15

#28

Pawsmack

@Oohnorak

I didn't respond to you because my thread states that OOO's could adjust the price to whatever they want. It's not up to me to decide the price. Only them. They know how Spiral Knights is doing and I don't. If I were to try to calculate a set price for them to use on either of these usables, it would most likely be flawed due to me not knowing anything about how Spiral Knights is truly doing currently. I know for a fact that it will be dead a few years down the road. But I don't have the data to measure the specifics. Therefore I can't come up with a set price that I know for sure would give them promising results in the end.

@Holy Nightmare

You don't get it either.

"In the long run a steady cash flow wins out."

But what is the long run going to be? A decade or two away? Spiral Knights won't live that long. Honestly I think the only way I think I could get you to stop raising that vain point time and time again would be for me to whip out accurate calculations and estimations. I can't do that for the reasons stated in my response to Oohnorak above. The only thing I could produce without such knowledge is rough and most likely desultory calculations. It's all up to OOO's to decide the price.

P.S. If you get the urge to respond to this with the same argument again read over all of my other posts towards you multiple times please. I honestly don't even know why you can't catch my point and understand how it disproves the one that you've brought up about four times now I think. We're going in circles and it's making me dizzy.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 16:33

#29

Fangel

It just doesn't really work

Slots are a way for the developers to snag additional income. That's fine and dandy, and what should be expected from any MMORPG. In fact, the upgrades are super cheap in comparison, and the game isn't unplayable without them.

Extended slots fit into the same system that is currently in place. It's like buying slots in bulk, and being able to add more onto them later. Some of the energy packs could even come along with them so the player is hooked longer. A permanent slot means a paying player pays once but never again. At the same time, people are much more likely to buy things many times in small doses rather than one large purchase(People will hate on you for spending $20-$30 on some cosmetic item in a video game, but then spend the next week buying $5 worth of coffee every day. $20 vs $35). Three Rings can continue to "nickle and dime" their users because that's what people are more comfortable with. However, buying in bulk would be another strategy that would have more loyal players purchasing.

By making longer slots cost less than if you bought that many alone, it would make those who plan to be around for 3 months to spend money on that 3-month pass.

The idea is that Spiral Knights has a subscription system in slot upgrades. $3~ a month, maybe $8~ for 3 months, $14 for 6 months, or $26 for a year. That's a 10 dollar saving on slots with a year of full slots. It's not even $26 a slot, it's $6.5 per slot per year. That's like, 2275CE for a year-long slot. A year is a long time to have those slots, and you can increase the time they last even more when the dark harvest or winterfest events come around with those prize boxes having 30-day slots in them.
With this system in place, players continuously pay, but since the payments are more spread out, it's less of a headache and reminder that "you're paying for this". In the end you're paying only 758CE per month, which is about a 5% discount, but it's still there. Old slot upgrades are still relevant, new ones allow for bulk purchases with a discount.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 16:48

#30

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I didn't read to thoroughly, but here's what I'll say:

If you want to make a balanced price, maybe aim for a time which is a little longer than average player retention time. Let's say a year, so that's 12 months. So you have 150 * 12 = 1800 Energy. Sounds good. Then you only make use of this if you play for over a year. If you play less than that, you're wasting your money.

I suggest that players can only use one of each. This way, a player will still have a need for monthly slots.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 17:22

#31

Vohtarak-Forum

I'm vohtarak, call me by that name

I give up
Paws, you ignored my main point completely

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 20:05

#32

Pawsmack

@Fangel

Really tired right now. I'll read and respond to that wall of text some other time when my brain isn't dead. e-e

@Autofire

"I suggest that players can only use one of each. This way, a player will still have a need for monthly slots."

Same idea that Oohnorak has had. Not gonna lie it could be potentially better than both being upgradable.

@Oohnorak

I was replying to post #17 and #24 in post #28. Everything I said responding to you in that post was relating to multiple-use color change usables. I really just glanced at your other posts besides those two in the past and that's why I only really responded to the two and them alone.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 23:34

#33

Holy-Nightmare

moving on

Color change would be nice but make it so that you have to buy more than one Palette pack. Each with, say, 4 reusable colors.

Lets just agree to disagree on the slots though, I'm not changing my mind and you aren't either.

Fri, 01/02/2015 - 23:48

#34

Fehzor

Ok Holy- what if it cost the same as ten years worth of slots? And people would buy it because of how they could be marketed- as a completeness type of thing.

Sat, 01/03/2015 - 06:21

#35

Sloveniangirl

If you still can see don't look at me!

(Yes, I was not active on forum for a while) +1

Sat, 01/03/2015 - 11:56

#36

Holy-Nightmare

@ Fehzor

Prices fluctuate over 10 years so a slot based on 120 X the current price might end up off.

It would also be hard to calculate each month's price for the next 10 years and then make it one price.

A 12 month slot would be better and easier to work with.

Sat, 01/03/2015 - 14:24

#37

Fangel

Well in all honesty...

Energy to crowns will fluctuate, however energy and the things you buy with energy will never have a price increase. Also it might be smarter to refer to them as 360-day slots (Don't think I always called them that, but it's there) as month lengths vary.

Crown cost to slot is neglectable. Energy cost is better.

Slots should remain temporary, just give us longer times. 30 day is great but you dread when it expires. With a year you'll forget that it could expire, but it wouldn't be unfair.

Onto color changes, that's just a good idea in general. If we have costume "modifiers" and personal color changes, it would be wonderful. Make it be an item restricted to Haven. Costume modifiers (shine - makes colors shine brighter. twinkle - makes your colors sparkle a bit. pulse - makes your color pulse like a node slime) would be great as well. Both these items can be thrown into different lockboxes and prize boxes.

Sun, 01/04/2015 - 05:10

#38

Fehzor

@Holy-Nightmare

You aren't wrong but you aren't answering my question or evaluating my point either. Let me reiterate-

What if the price point for a lifetime weapon slot was far more than it could possibly be? Ten years = 30,000 energy under the current situation, and would be appropriate if target players only played for around two years, maybe a year and a half at a time. Since that could fluctuate, lets say 60,000 crystals energy per slot. So without dodging the question, how would a statistically high price point effect things, and what would sliding the bar down to encompass more and more players accomplish on a smaller scale-- all the way to around 5,000 crystal energy? What would basic economics tell us about this situation?

Another point you make is that the current price scheme provides SEGA with a much needed constant supply of money. Wouldn't this behave similarly, as all new knights circulating into the player base would become the target audience for this? Knights that are just getting established for example, could be a prime target for such a thing. There's nothing wrong with paying 60 dollars for a game if it's incredible enough, and what I'm proposing would be a slower but just as steady reward for getting players to the point that they desire to spend such a sum on Spiral Knights. There might be a burst as the current wealthy players all invest in this, but that doesn't mean that a permanent package like this would dry up all of the money people are spending on the game for their weapon slots.

Lastly I want to take this a step further. From your observations, how much are the richest of the rich players spending on weapon slots versus costumes?

Search

Permanent Weapon/Trinket Slots And Multiple-Use Personal Color Change Usables