Worst Weapons and how you would improve them
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 09:30
Sort of an Arsenal/Suggestion forum game.
Name a weapon that is "Bad". (whether it is Over or Under powered)
Put in how you would fix it.
Feel free to discuss your suggestions.
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 09:58
#2
Cautery Sword
Reduce raw damage by 20%, lower Damage Bonus vs Slime to Medium. It's just too OP
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 10:27
#3
Catalyzer lines: Revert Gunner Update changes.
Troika lines: Change the attack speed to be identical to Sealed Sword lines. Their attack combo both deal the same damage, yet the speed and dual damage type of the latter makes it superior. Either make Sealed Swords slower, or Troikas faster.
Cutter line: Remove damaging hitbox of ghost swing, add the lost damage onto the first swing. Either that, or fix the hitbox of the ghost swing so that it actually hits.
Spur line: Faster charge time, faster deployment of attacks, the elusive 5* variant.
Cold Iron line: Freeze, because why not?
Shard Bombs: Invincitinks still happen. Make this not happen.
Antigua line: Improved, but not perfect yet. More mobility with the charge attack would be beautiful.
Grey Feather set: Increase the status resistance to make it so wearing the full set makes you immune to Moderate Fire+Shock, instead of just Minor.
Volcanic + Ironmight Plate sets: Same as Grey Feather, but with Stun+Fire/Stun respectively. Alternatively, more bonus health to compensate for the offense nerf.
Mad Bomber set: Higher health? No status penalty? Damage bonus High instead of Med per piece? I don't know. Something, anything.
Acheron: Basic swing does too much damage. The charge is passable, but the basic swing combo could be brought in line with the other Brandishes.
Skolver set: Too defensive for an offensive set. Lower the status resist just enough to make it lose Minor Freeze immunity, or slap on a status weakness similar to the Gunner Update armors.
Vog Cub set: Not so problematic as Skolver, but for consistency sake with Snarbolax, make it so you're just shy of immunity to Minor status.
Jelly set: Sleep isn't a threat. It's not going to be a threat any time soon. Throw something else on.
Iron Slug: Doesn't one-shot Darkfire Vanaduke on Elite with a full party. Is this what Nick would have wanted?
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 11:15
#4
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
magnuses and tundruses, fix the charges knockback and buff normal shots
gilded griffin line, make them deal effective to vana, theyre pierce guns, make them act like it
hammer, make the last hit have an actual flinch rate, you shouldnt need a full combo to stop a single attack
seerus mask, remove freeze weakness
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 15:42
#5
I had kind of hoped everyone
I had kind of hoped everyone would just do one per post....... that way discussion of each weapon and fix could take place between suggestions.
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 15:47
#6
Wild Hunting Blade - buff yelp chance
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 19:12
#7
@Holy: That's unlikely to
@Holy: That's unlikely to happen.
Catalyzer line: Do NOT revert changes, but give the tags the ability to trigger other tags again. Also, reverse the damages between Neutralizer and BioHazard, why the hell does Bio's tags do more damage neutrally?
Gran Faust: Either buff the normal damage, nerf Acherons, or remove the self-curse infliction.
Troika: slightly increase damage (at least enough to beat DA/GF against neutral enemies), decrease charge time and increase movement speed while charging.
Antigua: remove 2 of the charge's shot, increase damage on the last shot.
BAB: Remove MSD, triple it's damage. So that it's finally worth waiting for that stupidly long charge time.
Irontech: Remove MSD, increase range. So that it can finally be considered THE utility blast bomb.
Jelly set: Remove sleep resist entirely, add some kind of trinket boost. Something like CTR low.
Ironmight set: greatly increase piercing resist.
Volcanic set: greatly increase elemental resist.
Fallen set: remove fiend damage penalty.
All shards: remove invincitinks, increase charge time OR keep the super fast charge time but add MSD. See? Such a simple solution OOO.
DVS: Put the shadow blades in front of the attacker dammit. Increase overall damage.
WHB: Increase overall damage, increase the charge's flinch rate.
FoV: Slightly increase normal attack damage. Increase range of the first hit.
Spur: add a 5*, add another damage type variant.
All shadow lair armors need a buff, except for the Mercurial Demo/Snarbo set.
Heavenly Iron set: Increase both damage bonuses to med OR keep the sword damage to low but increase fiend damage to high.
Ice Queen: add a gun damage bonus med because why not?
Arcane Salamander: since I can't increase both damages, or else it'd overshadow the other 2 chroma sets, I'll just add in another status resist. Add poison or shock resist.
Almirian set: add a small freeze and shock resist.
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 19:43
#8
I kind of think we should make individual threads for these. We're typically out of ideas to talk about on the arsenal, so having these kinds of discussions while we wait a year and a half to discuss the newest variant on some existing weapon would be nice. I guess we can have this AND the individual discussions? But then it feels like what we're saying just gets lost, as if that isn't already the case.
------
My take on the catalyzer was always to make it more of a precision instrument than a spam cannon. I mean, it would be balanced and even desirable if it had the potential to deal the most damage out of anything.. but do we really want to just cause mindless explosions with it, when the attack style could offer so much more? So what if-
+Bullet speed travels faster than antigua's on all shots
+Normal shot tags them, does old charge shot's damage
+Charge shot animation sped up greatly
+More knock back, more radius
+Slightly longer range
+Explosion damage and detonation shot are added together for the target the orbs are rotating around (making it work in lockdown)
-Normal shot clip size reduced to a single bullet
-Detonation shot damage reduced greatly
This way, the weapon focuses on single explosion blasts at a distance, and controlling enemies with that sort of thing at a distance. This would make the gun offer something that no other weapon can.. because right now, it offers about the same thing as winter grave and iron slug, but is just worse.
Tue, 12/23/2014 - 20:22
#9
Fine then. Let's have an
Fine then. Let's have an orderly discussion. First weapon to talk about, Catalyzers.
An old idea I've always had is to have Catalyzer tags come from the center of the target instead of circling around it. Each tag's explosion is fixed, so spamming tags won't increase range in any way, however it's still possible to stack multiple tags to increase damage. This way you'll also be able to maximize damage against shielded enemies.
I agree with Fehzor on the single bullet clip and high speed, however detonation should cause more damage if anything, because of the overall slowed DPS. I also think that the charge shot should retain it's current high damage and flinch rate, so that it still has some utility.
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 10:29
#10
>:D
Shard Bombs
Remove hit limit, or at least increase it.
Wall bug! I hate how I lose Shards just because I'm in a hallway! I understand them falling off of cliffs, but when Im next to a wall, it should just clump next to it.
I don't want to have to use my CTR Max! Damage Max! just to do decent damage with my Shards.
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 10:31
#11
Woops
Oh yea, Cat line.
I actually think now, with the gunner update, that the Cat is actually super powerful. You can stack just so many on enemies now, and then then kill a whole swarm at a time.
I see no issues.
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 10:38
#12
Catalyzer could be much better
Catalyzer
Buff stacking damage, increase bullet speed to Valiance levels. Reduce charge damage but let the bullet move faster and pierce through enemies, increase the detonation range on charge.
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 21:05
#13
@Holy: Giving the Catalyzer
@Holy: Giving the Catalyzer charge a buff to it's detonation range will make it's current problem even worse.
First thing's first, when do we want to detonate the tags? When enemies are clustered together of course. Having a charge shot with a big detonation range has a tendency to prematurely trigger explosions, therefore not maximizing the damage.
So here's my fix.
-Catalyzer tags come from inside the enemies, instead of orbiting around them
-normal bullets are the tag and they come with a one shot clip, but they do NOT root you to the ground
-the charge shot detonates the tags, but the detonation only occurs if THE ENEMY ITSELF IS HIT
-The charge shot itself has a big AoE and can go through enemies. It also has a high flinch rate (equal to a Magnus charge) but no knockback and low damage
-Normal tag shots travel as fast as Valiance shots and can go for 8 tiles
-Charge shots move as fast as Polaris shots and go for 9 tiles
-a normal tag making contact stil' does 1 damage
-this is very important, a tag's detonation WILL TRIGGER THE DETONATION OF OTHER TAGGED ENEMIES
Here is how I imagine the damage in the 28th floor at full heat level
--BioHazard--
=tags=
Weak: 200-220
Neutral:120-140
Resist: 20-40
charge=
Weak: 110-130
Neutral: 40-60
Resist: 5-10
--Neutralizer--
=tags=
Neutral: 160-180
=charge=
Neutral: 80-100
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 21:46
#14
@ Keepscaite
For lag free non AT players the new catalyzer works fine. But for those with higher ping or those who can't predict monster movement that well a larger area of detonation on the charge would be helpful.
Anything to boost the effectiveness of the charge's useability.
As for Clumping... well that's why I use a Vortex with my Callahan.
"a tag's detonation WILL TRIGGER THE DETONATION OF OTHER TAGGED ENEMIES" This would be excellent. Might want to make it so that it only affects those in each other's blast range.
Wed, 12/24/2014 - 22:02
#15
Does anybody else have any
Does anybody else have any other thing to say about the Catalyzers? If not, I'll move on to the next weapon type in severe need of a buff.
(Some people may argue that the Spur line is weaker, but that one is IMO only weak because of the lack of a 5*. The Winmillion is still relatively easy to use)
The Cutters.
Thu, 12/25/2014 - 23:23
#16
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
hammer: single swing charge, double the charges damage
Fri, 12/26/2014 - 07:09
#17
Status Flourishes
Buff status
Status Flourishes
Buff status chance and guarantee it on the charge swings
Sat, 12/27/2014 - 16:54
#18
@Vohtarak: that would kinda
@Vohtarak: that would kinda violate the Hammer's high risk high reward playstyle. The charge is meant to be that dangerous and unwieldy. The hammer is strong enough as it is anyway, it doesn't need a buff.
@Holy: y'know what I think would make the status flourishes great? Of they had BTB's charge instead of it's current one. And then increase the status rate of that one hit to good (50%).
In the normal hit combo, neither of them should get a boost. Flamberge already has a fair chance (25%) per hit, and Rigadoon has slight chance (5%) per hit. No weapon should ever be allowed to consistently deal out stun, and increasing the Flamberge's proc rate anymore would make it overshadow the FoV's niche.
I know the FoV does elemental damage, but the Flamberge's hits are much faster, so overall they have a pretty similar proc rate.
Cutters are THE weapon in need of a buff. What I think would really help them is for each of the combo's lunge to not propel them forward as much, allowing the low slashes to hit the target. Either that or to just make the low slashes appear in front of the player, to guarantee the hit.
Another thing to add is to increase the speed of the charge attack. As it is, you'd need a minimum of ASI +7 to use it safely.
I would also be really happy if there was a shadow damage cutter. Because fighting gremlins with a cutter is crazy fun.
Sat, 12/27/2014 - 23:46
#19
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
@almond, the second swing was removed from the troikas, why not this, and in what world is it high risk?
(an actually reasonable argument against this would be it would remove the part where it can move AFKers)
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 02:15
#20
The hammer's charge can miss
The hammer's charge can miss enemies unless they're in a vortex or you have really good aim. For a pro like you, they're perfectly safe, but for those new to the hammer's fighting style that sends you flying all over the place, it's a real pain. The dash in the charge is also a lot of fun, even if it is stupid. I'd argue for a slight increase in it's AoE instead of removing the dash entirely.
Though I admit no longer allowing moving other players is a pretty good argument.
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 07:37
#21
WRH not one of the "worst weapons"
Warmaster Rocket Hammer is one of the strongest weapons in the game, due to its crazily powerful (and fun) regular attack. Balancing this strong regular attack with a weak charge attack is reasonable. I would not make its charge attack stronger.
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 09:17
#22
:3
Nah, letting the hammer move players is part of makes it fun to use. Its literally one of the only direct troll weapons in the game, the others being Big Angry Bomb and Polaris in LD.
Its DPS is actually off the charts if you can get its normal combo to connect with the dash. I would say decreasing its charge damage would be justified.
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 09:40
#23
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
i dont see how its hard to use in any way, as soon as I picked one up I figured out how to play with it and I dont see how someone could mess up, its a really straightforward process to use
but the main reason I wanted a charge buff is from a few days ago when I saw someone brandish charge a battlepod, the initial swing dealt 1012 damage,and both hammer hits (at level 10) deal only a small amount more than that
lastly @almond I am definitely not a pro, im not sure if you were attempting to mock me or if you were serious
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 10:38
#24
^
Maybe it was a complement...?
I would honestly never use the Hammer's charge due to it being unreliable. Its a Suda charge, but it does it twice. The longer the charge animation, the worse I like it. The first swing bashes everything away, the 2nd just hits a couple staggerers.
Sun, 12/28/2014 - 10:47
#25
I'm vohtarak, call me by that name
actually the second hit can get enemies that were knocked back almost directly away from where youre facing, and it has enough flinch to keep you safe from the other enemies that might have attacked, the only risk is the same as a sudaruska, if you miss the first swing
BAB
Reduce Charge time to just barely longer than Irontech, buff radius a little and the power of the Stun.