Spiral Knights - The Pauper Test

The Pauper Test

32 replies [Last post]

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 08:14

Menilos

Legacy Username

Right then, with all of the arguments about CE prices and the main point being that new players are being priced out of the game, it's about time someone tested the theory.

Say hello to Pauper. He's my new alt, armed with nothing more than mist energy and a Positive Mental Attitude (tm).

I'm not the best player, been here a couple of weeks, and I prefer guns so my swordsmanship isn't the best. I'm not going to elicit any financial or material help from anyone, however I will be using the add friend function and maybe a guild to help on runs and maybe skip a few early levels.

I'm not expecting miracles and will not be playing every day, but I will be using the full range of things to make money such as crafting to sell, recipe selling, selling mats and all that good stuff.

I do work, and have other commitments, however I'll try to document my travels here and hopefully either help to end the arguments or maybe help some new players by setting an example in my race to be self sufficient.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 09:45

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

Godspeed. For science!

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 09:46

Eurydice

Community Manager

Looking forward to your

Looking forward to your updates!

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 11:52

Algol-Sixty

while this is interesting,

while this is interesting, and could provide some much needed data, it doesn't sound like you are going to be that much like a real new player. New players are still learning about the different parts of haven, they won't know the differences between driftwood, redwood and ironwood and what each would sell for. Having friends carry you instead of jerks that kick you can make a world of difference. New players are still learning the key bindings and dying a lot when the fumble the keyboard. New players (and the vast majority of old players) don't craft for resell. (And, that is good for us resellers since if even 10% of the players did it, there would be far to many items on the AH than could possibly sell.)

Now, if you *can't* do it with your couple of weeks of experience already, then that is really bad news from completely new players. On the other hand, succeeding doesn't mean that a real new play could.

I'm just saying to take this with a grain of salt, but please keep us informed how it is going.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 11:57

Splinter

Looking forward to you

Looking forward to you enjoying the game immensely :) Better get up to JK status real quick!

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 14:04

Menilos

Legacy Username

To try and make it as

To try and make it as accurate as possible and to provide info for new players, I'll log most of what I do, probably ending up with some kind of new player guide. As for crafting and selling materials, I'll be just browsing each item on the AH, something anyone can do and putting things up at a competitive price according to what's there. I'll also be using a new character, Pauper, not telling anyone who my other character is, and as my IGN and acccount name are different there shouldn't be any carrying by friends, as the only friends I will use are ones I make through playing with Pauper, not to mention the high chance of getting a spam guild invite in the town square.

This should be a learning experience for me too anyway, as I played for an hour the first time then threw a couple of quid at it so I haven't actually tried it the normal way, so I could end up getting frustrated and throwing everything at a big gun straight away then gimping my progress.

Thinking about this, I'll change the name to something else, in case anyone sees this and it causes any bias in the friend/guild thing.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 14:08

Crimson-Cat

Curious

Thinking about this, I'll change the name to something else, in case anyone sees this and it causes any bias in the friend/guild thing.

I was just thinging the same thing. You don't want to taint your results by having people recognize you from the Forums. I am curious to see what you discover.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 15:32

Sniperjoe

You could still call yourself

You could still call yourself Pauper in this thread, though!

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 18:42

Menilos

Legacy Username

Day One

Right, first day done.
Well on my way to tier 2, Now have a Calibur with a Wolver Cap and Coat, all the required Tier 1 runs done and I'm one token short of the Snarbo shield.

Started off by smashing straight through the Rescue Camp to Haven, 15ME down and I'm in with the big boys.
On to the Clockworks.
Joined a party on level one of the Snarbo Gate in my nice shiny Proto kit and did a full run through to the boss, generally staying out of the way of the rest of the group, in 2 and 3 star gear and not getting killed. Mainly due to them kicking off in chat every time I killed something, "Don't need your help noob, stay out of the way" was the order of the day there. Held my tongue all the way through and went on my merry way, 3 tokens and 2.5k richer. Another 60ME gone but I've gained a couple whilst in the clockworks.
The AH.
Went to the Auction House to buy me that sword. First thing I did was check what materials I had, then put everything worth more than 25 cr on auction with a buyout 10-15 cr lower than the lowest to get a quick sale. Saw a Calibur for 2000 cr buyout with my name on it, bought it then went to bash stuff with it.
To cut a long story short, did another two full runs, using my free mist tank when I ran out, added a few friends on these runs and came out with about 2-2.5k cr from each. Went to the AH after each run to sell mats and had a steady stream of sold emails coming through the entire time.

The Numbers.
Used all ME and a mist tank, had about 15 left at the end.
Bought a Calibur, a Wolver Coat and Cap for 2000, 2400 and 2850 respectively and still have 2.2k in the bank. All of the mats sold, not for much but I reckon there was 1000-1500 cr there and as iI said, I'm one token away from the boss shield, so things are looking good.

Thoughts.
I was a little disappointed with the elitist attitudes in the first run, honestly wasn't expecting it, as I got hit once during the entire run and killed quite a bit in the end, but it started as soon as they saw my gear.
The AH. With a bit of patience, it would have been easy to squeeze another 1.5-2k cr from there, both with selling and buying, but I'm trying to go quite quickly so I just went for the fastest options.

So, I made just under 10k from 200ME. In today's climate, that isn't quite self sufficient, but I need to do two more runs in T1, one for the shield, 1 for the gate, then I'm killing jellies. T1 isn't sustainable, but it'll only take me two days to get out of it so it doesn't really need to be sustainable in the long term.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 19:08

Sanzenin

This is interesting. Good on

This is interesting. Good on you for doing it and logging your progress in such a detailed manner.

I'm a little disappointed to hear about the elitist attitude too. That kinda attitude should be left at the door in an open group imo. If you only want certain types of players then make a closed group and invite them.

Whenever I'm running T1 and get a new player I try to split the kills as evenly as I can. Often I'll just stand and watch them hack at something a couple of times when I could end the fight with one swing. I try to let them know by my actions that I'm not going to carry them and they will have to do their part. Doing everything for them early on just fosters bad/sloppy playing down the line.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 19:43

#10

Daystar

Legacy Username

Sounds great, just make sure

Sounds great, just make sure you buy a few horribly overpriced vendor 1* and 2* gear, get a few recipes you'll never use, craft gear that's terrible for you, equip a few upgrades as costume only and keep them that way for a few days before equipping them for real, open a few energy doors, and quit at least half of your runs before reaching the end.

That might be a liiiiittle more accurate for the experience of a new player :)

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 19:50

#11

Njthug

YOU CAN DO IT

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 20:35

#12

Flameberga

Legacy Username

U'll do fine, just dont buy

U'll do fine, just dont buy Swordstones for 1400 each like when I joined this game

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 20:58

#13

Rommil

lol

@daystar

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 21:27

#14

Gwenyvier

Lol, daystar is actually

Lol, daystar is actually pretty accurate though. Need to die several times and energy rev yourself with party members alive too. I know we all did it as newbies.

~Gwen

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 23:09

#15

Fallout

I started something like this

I started something like this on monday. I found the easiest way to get to tier 2 is to solo snarby (im assumming you did to) (i managed 2 runs a day, and aquired a shield on the 3rd). this tends to generate around 2100cr.... so with the money from the 4 runs i bought 2 alchemers and a brandish. just gotta manage getting armour... so a few more snarb runs. i'm planning on ending up with silvermail, graviton stone tortise and whatever i get (if) from drops. this means i don't have to use CE for any part of the game!! here's to 1 year of getting to t3....

whether your doing this for fun or to just prove your fun, gw at doing this and fighting the system =p.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 23:17

#16

Sunless

It's easy to get Crowns

It's easy to get Crowns without purchasing CE. It's mostly that people aren't patient enough to try.

Wed, 06/08/2011 - 23:30

#17

nearo

Legacy Username

Pretty cool! c:

No doubt about the elitists.. jeez. they're that bad?; maybe if you visibly sucked at fighting, had 13545453 in your name, bad spelling, and proto gear, but..

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 04:52

#18

Menilos

Legacy Username

Regarding the

Regarding the comments.
Elitism.
That was the gist of what happened, dont want to go into specifics for anonymity sake, but as with everything there was more to it.
Newbie mistakes.
After the three main runs I still had about 35 energy so I joined a couple of gates just on the off chance that I got lucky and hit Snarbo. By this time it was about 3 in the morning and I was on a comedian after I found out they were selling Mountain Dew in England again. Playing one handed trying to speed run through a couple of levels just bashing everything that moved.2 rezzes and an energy gate once I realised I wasn't going to get him. So that should cover some of that.
Soloing.
All of my runs were joined groups, more forgiving, more realistic for a newbie to do, and the best way to get a friends list. Doing this hit home what a good guild and list really does for your game. I missed that more than my Callahan and Levi.
Kit.
I want a better gun, however the kit needed for advancing is priority here, so I went for the armour first. Plus the damage bonuses help a bit. The lowest priced buyout was a Cryotech for 3200 which is a bit rich for me yet. I did almost ragebuy a ragecrafted owlite shield for 2000, to get to tier 2 faster but common sense took the upper hand and this way, after the next run I'll get my shield and gun, then it's party time.

I know I'm taking a pretty methodical approach to this, however this is pretty much how I did it the first time, I usually come into games after a bit of research, and everything I did can be found in one of the many guide threads on here, which, if someone's reading this, they have probably already seen, with me just putting it all into practice.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 01:22

#19

Menilos

Legacy Username

Day Two

Two days in and it's going well. Reached the heady heights of Tier 2 and chugging along nicely.

With my 95 mist energy I went for the Snarby Shield, joined a group at level 3, fired through and with the profits and tokens picked me up a shield and a cryotech. 55 left and all that's required is a trip to see the warden. Joined another PUG and this time hit level 5, only 3 to go to freedom. Bish bash bosh, job's a good 'un, Bob's yer uncle and all that and I'm in.
I'm now in full Wolver, Calibur, Cryotech and Snarby Shield, which seems to be the default loadout for starting Tier 2 now, as it is a) the cheapest on the AH, and b) a bloody good set.

Just had a thought, bear with me.
I've spent about 10.5k on gear and have 3.2 left over. This's cost me 270ME all told. That's enough to buy 200CE at 7k/100, so with optimised runs and a friends list in T1, there's no reason really why you can't make a profit in Tier 1. As long as you don't die too much. I think I'll need nother alt...

Back on track.
Joined my first group at level 10, did ok, got to Basil then forgot to use my mist tank. Back to Haven we go. Bugger. There really needs to be a 'Use Mist Tank' option if you don't have the energy on a gate. Done this twice now. Appear in Haven, click on the mist tank then join game as quick as I can to see if I can get my place back, appear in level 2 deconstruction zone. Rage clicking is not for winners. Leave at the end of that then rejoin..
Result. Back at Basil with a nice new group. And they were. Nice, that is. Completely reaffirmed my faith in the game playing public and humanity in general. Got to the penultimate level after much drama, mainly with chain revives due to oilers but once we were past the first two waves of the first arena it was all plain sailing. Had a bit of a break after this. Put some mats on the AH, had a brew, that sort of thing. Came back, there was a join invite from one of the previous players so back to the palace we go. Get to Goo Garden and the 'Red Message Of Doom And Wasted Progress' came up. Finished the level then came out and logged off for the patch.
After the patch, logged back on, checked my bank and my auctions and there it was. 15k. Put in a couple of bids, about halfway down the list then waited for a buyer. First lot sold. My red numbers turned blue. All good so far. Then I recieved 'The Brown Message Of Morale'
'You have been refunded 87 crowns due to your listing selling for a lower price' or words to that effect.
One is now a happy bunny.
So, in two days I'm in Tier 2, have met a few good people to run with and have 200CE. That's the upside. The real challenge will be to carry it on vs. lightning bolts and staplers without the jelly palace.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 01:56

#20

BiggestLoser

Legacy Username

Zelda

just a tiny comment

on my 1st day it said revive for energy and i was like wtf is energy, just spammed revive and found out i need weird numbers down there to use elevators ._.', yet i wasnt even sure why thers 2 numbers lol

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 05:08

#21

Algol-Sixty

Interesting

Interesting perspective.

While I knew the AH made some things really cheap, I really didn't put it together just how easy that makes it for new players. My first sword was also a Calibur. I bought the recipe, then bought swordstone for 500cr each, then crafted. That 50 energy needed for crafting really put a damper on what I could do in the game. Yeah, CE was much cheaper, but still too expensive for me. A while later, I accidentally crafted another Calibur and was able to very quickly sell it for 3k via /1 spam (no /2 back then). There is no way I could have quickly sold the mats I collected.

So, the AH not only makes progression *MUCH* faster for new players, but *MUCH* cheaper too. Now, I suspect that for T2, the AH won't be a huge amount cheaper, but it will still be *MUCH* faster.

I wonder how many people look at the costs of upgrading their stuff via buying recipes/mats vs just buying a new one at the AH. I suspect that a lot of the time, the AH is cheaper, and certainly a lot quicker.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 05:39

#22

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

"on my 1st day it said revive

"on my 1st day it said revive for energy and i was like wtf is energy, just spammed revive and found out i need weird numbers down there to use elevators ._.', yet i wasnt even sure why thers 2 numbers lol"

There's two knights in Haven with the bucket-looking helmets that will happily explain what Energy is and how it works.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 07:33

#23

Trouser

@Gigafreak

But that would require them to stop and read a wall of text as high as their hand, and everyone knows that more than a finger's worth is too much.

TL;DR Reading is boring.*

*Satire, what would life be without you?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:06

#24

Menilos

Legacy Username

Days 3 and 4.

In a post Jelly world, there is only darkness.
This will be a bit long winded, as it seems to have fell off the radar.
Basically been smashing the fiend levels in T2, and whilst not doing too badly, I ended up spending quite a bit of ME on revives, with a couple of double revives just to clear a level. However, these levels seem to be quite profitable, with a decent return even when wiping. The loss of the jelly run hasn't hindered me too much but if it was any level but shock or fiend I reckon I'd have done better, as the biggest detriment to my earnings was not finishing levels and revives, 3 wipes an 30 ME worth of revives is about 20% of my total mist over the two days wasted. I also did two short Snarby runs and now have the bomb.

Money.
With selling all of the mats from Friday, I ended up with about 15k cr which I spent on another 200 CE. I have also saved all of my mats from today as I now have enough CE to Craft 4 x 3* items with ME. I checked all of the recipes and worked out what I need to craft all of my next upgrades and everything I don't need will be sold tomorrow. I decided that I'll find all of my own recipes through Basil and use this to determine what I craft first, with making 100CE on average a day so far, with only one Jelly run, I should have full 3* in a fortnight at the latest.

Although this is sort of a new player thing, I am pretty good at not dying, and there are mistakes which I didn't make that some would I have passed a lot of opportunities up that I would take now as an experienced player, it also makes a point in all of the other threads about free players, and playing just on mist. I have made my 100 energy up every day, just by not wasting it, or wasting money on things I don't need. I've had a lot of fun playing through the clockworks, breaking every box and bush looking for more money and met some good people, and if going through to make the crowns to buy the CE is n't fun for you, or you see it as grinding, then maybe this isn't the game for you. If you're reading this then take a look at the sticky in the new player forum with links to numerous threads on how to make crowns and CE.

I think this'll be the last post for now, I may check in next weekend with my progress depending on feedback, but I'm going to continue the experiment, at least up to full 3*.

Thanks for reading

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:38

#25

Tisiphone

Interesting

I'm apparently not the only one who does this then... I've started a new character named Lawbringer. The only difference however is that I'm using recipes available on my main character, mostly Calibur/Tempered Calibur, and an Angelic Helm/Raiment set. I used the Mist Tank to help me craft those. I'm only running off Mist Energy for playtime, crafting with CE.

I'll move this to my new thread, won't hijack yours. I'm interested in seeing your purer results though.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 17:49

#26

Loki

Legacy Username

I just recently started a new

I just recently started a new character on another account named Grief.

I'm getting everything on him 100% without any help from my 5* main account. I bought some 2* recipes conveniently for pretty dirt cheap from Auction House, and now I only need a 2* Shield to gain access to Tier 2. Not sure if I should go for the Bristling Buckler or the Defender though. Defender only because it's conveniently sold at all times through Kozma(name?)

Once I get there I'll be raking in much more crown and be able to make more progress, though CE prices as they are now means it'll take me more than 100 ME to get what I could in 70 ME before, but I'll manage, it's just a side-project anyway.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:29

#27

Captain-Teemo

My main concern with the high

My main concern with the high price of CE isn't that players cannot advance. EVENTUALLY they can, at a rate of maybe 1 gear every other week. Not actually a bad rate of advancement compared to "real" mmo's. SK is a casual mmo so really this isn't even that big of an issue to me.

My issue with the cost of CE being higher than the profit from a dive is that using ce to dive is a complete waste. Buying CE to grind is throwing away money, it profits no one but the energy seller. The only use for CE is to craft and unlock weapon slots, all of which must be offset by mist.

CE is just too expensive to actually play on :\

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 18:42

#28

Tisiphone

Agreed with Shosuko

I completely agree with Shosuko. At the rate I'm going, all I am doing is trading ME for CE. Given, ME recharges, I eventually will make enough for my armor and such. It's taken me about a week to get to my current T2 clearance. I have one recipe for a 4*, but I'm 400CE away from actually upgrading it. I hope running JK will be more profitable than Snarbo.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 20:33

#29

Loki

Legacy Username

@Cantus

Jelly King runs -are- more profitable. Higher level monsters, and more monsters = More profit

An average Jelly King run will net you around 4~5k, however that's if the gates aren't ''in your favor''. It's possible to make more but you'll need some Arenas and Danger Rooms in there to help you out.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 06:32

#30

Wire

Legacy Username

This is my favorite thread.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 06:58

#31

gell

Legacy Username

There are actually quite a

There are actually quite a few people doing this, all who have a 4-5* gear character and want to test/prove something. Daystar may have been posting tongue in cheek, but he's actually right. This won't really prove anything, except what we already know, which is that on ME alone (and no $$), you can slowly advance in this game.

Buy some gear from Quillion and Greave, craft a 2* item you realize is useless, buy a swordstone for over 600 crowns, use weapons against enemies who are strong to them, and return to haven before you even get to Basil. Maybe buy some energy from a player in town (had to tell a few newbs to stop buying from some greedy opportunists and to instead use the energy market as they had no idea it even existed!)

I do think the 2* gear and crowns you get from the Snarbolax stratum will help quite a bit though. Fight him 3-4 times and you'll have a 2* sword/shield/bomb without having to cough up anything of worth.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 07:20

#32

novareid

Legacy Username

I started a similar quest a

I started a similar quest a month ago, and here are my findings: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/11105

It's a little more "mathy" than your approach, but I think we have the same goal.

Cheers.

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The Pauper Test