Spiral Knights - Let's talk speedrunning! Leaderboards, rules, etc.

Let's talk speedrunning! Leaderboards, rules, etc.

58 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 08:47

Krakob

Relevant links:
Open Broadcaster Software, a top notch recording and streaming program.
LiveSplit, a timer program designed for speedrunning.
Spiral Knights on splits.io, where you can save your times from LiveSplit with others. Note that LiveSplit can download runs from Splits.io so that you don't have to set up floor names yourself and whatnot. To do so, open LiveSplit --> right click --> Open Splits --> From Splits.io... --> search Spiral Knights --> download the run you want to do.
Spiral Knights on Speedrun.com, where the leaderboards are hosted! If you would like to participate, go here!

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I've been a speedrunning enthusiast for years. Surely you all know what a speedrun is. If not, check out this Ocarina of Time speedrun and maybe you'll get a better idea. Speedrunning translates quite well to Spiral Knights, although people don't really play through the entire game. Rather, people play through specific missions to maximise their income to time ratio. An example of this is people aiming to do Firestorm Citadel in as short time as possible, which gives a ton of Crowns while being up to twice as fast as regular runs with randoms.

Speedrunning as a competition in Spiral Knights is something less common, though. While there have been competitions through the years, there's been nothing really consistent. I'd like to change that, but I'm wondering how much interest there is. How many people are truly interested in competitive speedrunning in SK? Should there be enough interest, I'll be happy to set up leaderboards for us.

Now, let's talk rules. My idea of a standardised ruleset:

The runner must show when they start the mission so that the difficulty isn't lied about. Although cheating can be done anyway through video editing, this will at least make it harder with livestreams. If cheating happens anyway, it can be pointed out by looking at how much health enemies have.
Timing starts when loading the first level (not the depth 0 lobby) has reached about 90%, as one can move before loading is 100% done.
Timing ends when the token of a boss run spawns for boss missions, when enemies disappear and the exit opens in the Seerus fight for O:CH, or when the final elevator is reached for other missions.
To clarify in the above reasoning, I think loot areas and floors should not be timed since speedrunning them is trivial (merely running past the loot is not a challenge) and loot is largely the reason people speedrun in this game when not doing so competitively.
While cutting out mid-run loading screens could be a good idea, I feel like in the end, it would be problematic due to inevitable disagreements about exactly when a loading screen ends as well the effort required by a third party to verify how much to actually cut away from a run.

Agree? Disagree? Want to add anything?

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Current ruleset: http://www.speedrun.com/sk/guide/ztn27
Feel free to propose changes!

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 08:59

Khamsin

I feel like speedrunning in

I feel like speedrunning in this game leads to somewhat degenerate behavior. You lose time off your first death while you wait for your auto-revive, but all other deaths increase your damage done and therefore your speed, so to optimize speed means slamming sparks. The difference between waiting for traps and blowing past them and rezzing later is pretty large as well.

I guess if you divided into sub-categories like no-death and no-damage (my preferred ruleset TBH, I did Mr. Perfect in MM9 and it just feels so intense at the end of a run) you'd have competition that I think would be more interesting, but then you start getting into all sorts of shenanigans like what is considered the definitive ruleset etc.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 09:12

Krakob

I don't agree with that entirely. Intentionally dying, unless from traps, involves spending time taking damage instead of defeating enemies or moving towards your objective. I don't think a no-deaths category is actually needed, because even if you could use sparks to save time, it'd be miniscule and very costly. One should also note that deaths can save time in cases such as skipping the wings of the first RJP level.

But yeah, adding a no sparks rule might be a good idea due to abusing traps, as you pointed out.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 09:43

Khamsin

"involves spending time

"involves spending time taking damage instead of defeating enemies or moving towards your objective."

No it doesn't. Invincibility frames don't prevent movement or cause knockback in Spiral Knights, so you can take "free" damage while moving along hallways without slowing down your run. If there are enough fights where repeatedly gaining the damage boost from dying outweighs the loss of time from the first auto-revive (which is like, 2-3 seconds?) then it becomes advantageous to take damage whenever you can. It's completely degenerative behavior. Taking some damage to progress faster is natural (in normal Megaman speed runs you'll see some people get hit and move through an enemy blocking the way rather than fighting if it would take too long to fight) but being rewarded for taking damage and dying is completely counter to the spirit of the game.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 09:58

Krakob

It most certainly does. Unless there's damage everywhere, i.e. traps, then you'll need to actually make sure to get hit as opposed to just running as fast as you can. In combat situations, taking damage is a problem because it will slow down charging and interrupt combos.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 10:28

Khamsin

"In combat situations, taking

"In combat situations, taking damage is a problem because it will slow down charging and interrupt combos."

Unless arenas are already so completely optimized the time advantage from gaining a damage boost is less than the 200 MS here and there while moving through hallways to intercept bullets or light yourself on fire with a fire tile and then the 2-3 seconds it takes you rez yourself from your "free" death, it becomes advantageous to strafe a little out of the way to hurt yourself.

You're thinking in terms of splits, but it isn't exactly like traditional speed run games because losing some time in one split could result in gaining time in another split (ie you hurt yourself in split A so you can gain a damage boost and reduce your time in split C). In Megaman, it takes a little while for people to figure out the optimal boss order because the order you do the bosses may cause one stage to become longer, but cause one stage to become shorter enough that it effects the preferred boss order. It is a matter of cost-benefit, if the small amount of time spent hurting yourself becomes an advantage when you get a damage boost in an arena, it is worthwhile to hurt yourself. It is especially a problem when you look at FSC because you're most likely already wearing chaos for speed runs, so lighting yourself on fire even a single time can be enough to kill yourself and end up gaining you a damage boost later.

It's just degenerative and really not appropriate for this game at all anyways.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 12:33

Mergu-Md

I believe this is a great idea and would encourage some nice competition. If players find that killing themselves in certain situations saves time, so be it. That's their strategy.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 13:50

Skepticraven

↓

"Timing starts when loading the first level (not the depth 0 lobby) has reached about 90%, as one can move before loading is 100% done."

Why not when the player leaves the 1-way mist gate?

When I was timing stuff (Boss Token Runs), I recorded the times when I stepped on the elevators (before clicking to go to the next depth).

Loadscreens are a really big issue, especially if you're going to be "validating" via video evidence. One could easily chop off a couple seconds by just deleting a good deal of frames during the loadscreen.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 16:18

Krakob

@Khamsin
I never claimed that it's not beneficial in the long run, I just said that looking purely at the moment when you're taking damage, it's not beneficial because it will probably require extra effort. Not quite sure why you're going such lengths to pretend that we disagree when we largely don't.

@Lunarias
The problem is that spark revs will simply give you more damage and just become plain beneficial in some situations, essentially rewarding players for neglecting skillful play and would make speedrun attempts very costly if you're going for the absolutely best times.

@Skepticraven
Good point, didn't think about the gates.

Maybe a fair solution would be to let people chop off loading times if they like, but if they don't, through video editing, loading screens would be counted as part of the run?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:01

Mergu-Md

Because we can't separate the runs based on categories, I'd say anything goes. The video you posted is full to the brim of exploits and shortcuts. My understanding is that if you want to be skillful and conserve health, you shouldn't be speedrunning. It's a different playstyle altogether.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:18

#10

Krakob

You're right in saying that it's a different playstyle to play for survival as opposed to speed. That's not the issue here, though. I have no interest in promoting survival based strategy for speedrunning. The problem is that if sparks are allowed, the quickest player will possibly be the one with the most sparks to blow on a single run due to how immense the damage boost from them is.

There's nothing preventing us from having categories which don't permit spark revives. Why would think not?

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 17:25

#11

Finale-Flare

If you got a speedrun

If you got a speedrun category for RT, I will definitely participate in that

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:15

#12

Mergu-Md

My fear is that if we dilute the idea into multiple categories, competition gets thinned out. Not many players visit the forums as it is. Take LD for example - players looking to maximize their score can use sparks, and there is a large pool of competition because it's all contained in one single feature. Another example is that T3 LD is the most popular form of PvP, with other Tiers and Blast Network garnering much less attention.

There's also the issue of judging submissions and determining a category to stick them into - does someone who kamikazes to the point of 1% health through traps deserve to be in the survival-based category and kick others who played with skill to the curb, or should they be placed somewhere else? Do we separate it all the way down to different sprites or MSI bonuses? Keep in mind users with a Seraphynx can walk over anything using skills and users with a Drakon can practically launch themselves across a map.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:19

#13

Krakob

@Nefariousity
Good to hear! :3

@Lunarias
As I've mentioned several times, the problem is use of spark revives as a means of pay to win. This is getting pretty tiring.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:34

#14

Holy-Nightmare

.........

MSI boosting or reducing items or sprite perks should not be allowed as they give an advantage or disadvantage. In fact sprites should just be removed as some are superior for certain missions.

Maskeraith gives an advantage on floors with healers countering your damage.
Seraphynx allow you to traverse traps with ease and can extend a player's life with increased health drop (reducing penalties from death).
Drakon can provide a very large speed buff with it's second ultimate.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:44

#15

Mergu-Md

I brought up new problems you failed to address. If discussing potential issues is tiring, why continue with the idea?

I agree with Holy-Nightmare on this one. Players shouldn't be allowed to bring along sprites or MSI boosts if this becomes a thing.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:48

#16

Krakob

I find that a very bad idea. Choice of sprite is important strategy for speedruns. You can pick Maskeraith to make combat easier and manage aggro, Drakon for running faster and tanking a bit more, or Seraphynx for tanking even more. Which is the most valuable often depends on how a player chooses to handle different situations and is mostly about preference.

All in all, if you want competitive speedruns where no one is advantaged or disadvantaged you shouldn't be looking at an MMO.

@Lunarias
You're not bringing up actual issues, I get the impression you're just ignoring me and going on about whatever you wish to when you say stuff like
*does someone who kamikazes to the point of 1% health through traps deserve to be in the survival-based category and kick others who played with skill to the curb, or should they be placed somewhere else?*
when I've clearly stated multiple times that this is not about playing style, it's about not making any potential competition a matter of spamming spark revs to handle combat and traps.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:49

#17

Mergu-Md

All in all, if you want competitive speedruns where no one is advantaged or disadvantaged you shouldn't be looking at an MMO.

As I've mentioned several times, the problem is use of spark revives as a means of pay to win.

Aren't these the same? It's been my point this whole time. Players with Sparks would have the upper hand, and if we're considering splitting up that advantage and not others then I don't see a point in splitting it at all.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 18:52

#18

Krakob

Sure they are, the difference being that things such as sprite and gear are consistent and can be achieved through grinding whereas sparks require a constant increase in supply. Either way there's no problem with having separate categories for spark spamming, I just don't think there's any significant amount of effort in it nor an awfully large amount of players interested in doing it.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:00

#19

Mergu-Md

Sparks are arguably easier to obtain than specialized gear/sprites for different runs through the supply depot. It's not necessarily pay-to-win. Everything costs in-game currency. I do understand your point of them being separate from gear in that they don't stay forever.

I just wanted to clarify that I do see your concern, and my points are for legitimate discussion to help work out kinks (or in the least help me understand your vision).

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:03

#20

Skepticraven

↓

Personally, my opinion would be to let anything allowed in the game [read: no computer assisted runs - thats against the ToS] be allowed for speedruns. The best speedrunners will use a variety of advantageous tactics in the game to increase speed.

Do I think someone could use sparks to beat IMF faster than I did a could years ago? Nope. Dying would waste any time gained from damage boost.
Do I think MSI boosts could beat my speedrun? Nope. Lots of the traps are destructible walls or traps you have to wait for.
Do I think some of the gunner update changes could increase my own speed? Yup. Winter Grave could probably shave off a bit more time (I used AP charge for boss. Magnus line is much better).
Have I used things discussed above to reduce time? Yes. There are multiple areas where I used a drakon barrier to walk over a shock trap without getting damaged. I was pretty much suicidal when I plowed through all rocket traps. That 12m57s elite solo full-clear IMF run (including all load times) was extremely fast.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:19

#21

Krakob

@Lunarias
That's a decent point but realistically, I don't think there's a lot of players who have chosen to hoard sparks instead of investing in gear.

I appreciate that you're trying to keep it constructive, either way!

@Skepticraven
I agree with you almost completely, but sparks are still a bit of a concern. The thing is, though, I doubt anyone is actually interested in blowing 10 sparks per attempt on some run to get a record on it. Right now I'm leaning towards either a no sparks permitted leaderboard or just calling it free for all with rules primarily being about recording/timing.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:33

#22

Mergu-Md

Personally, I'd run whatever mission/stage I wanted to get a record on a few times casually before even recording. I'd prepare my gear, my strategy - make sure everything was in order. If I felt I could use sparks to complete a forced battle faster, I would save up 20 or so and use them only when I was recording. This would probably be a rare occasion because I would have to plan out where I die, and the initial death shaves off time that I'm not sure later sparks could recover. There are what, a maximum of 3-4 forced fights on a floor?

EDIT: I would love to see a video of one of your runs, Skeptic. Sounds very interesting.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 19:33

#23

Zincamania-Forum

The game gives no extra

The game gives no extra reward for completing a mission as fast as possible, apart from a better loot:time spent ratio. This is also stated in the OP as the main idea behind this competition. It doesnt make sense to burn sparks when speedrunning for loot, so it shouldnt be the focus of this competition either.

Not allowing sprites or any other type of gear for that matter is silly. The point of the competition is to see how fast people can complete a certain mission. Not how fast those people can complete a certain mission with certain gear. A lot of the fun comes from the creativity you can have with your loadout and there are many combinations you can do with sprite abilities. Just let the players decide what they will use for gear and may the best team win.

That said, I'd rather see a speedclearing competition than a speedrunning competition. In the end, the main goal is to farm crowns, which means killing the monsters, not running past them. Forcing players to kill all the monsters will also provide more room for creativity. On a speedrun, most players will choose as much MSI as they can get. On a speedclear, the same MSI will still be very useful, but there might be other combinations that work better. For example a more defensive loadout might do just as fine as a MSI+4 loadout, because more defense means less time spent being careful while killing monsters. Krakob could make exceptions for certain parts of a mission though, for example on depth 25 in FSC, he could agree that the players only have to clear 6/8 or 7/8 of the rooms, because some rooms - the room with all the wheel launchers in particular - simply arent worth the time when going for the best crowns/hour ratio.

Sat, 05/23/2015 - 20:26

#24

Hexzyle

Why not just apply an 8 second penalty for every death? That's how long the damage increase lasts, and you shouldn't be dying in a speedrun anyway because that doesn't prove that you can play well & fast at all.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 00:17

#25

Uberer-Alt

Sparks

Sparks can be easily used in boss battles. Lets take vana as an example. You defeat the mask and then die on purpose, you have time to rev when vana walks back to the middle and then you have a huge dmg bonus. I would like to see sparks banned because I feel like speedrunning would be a little bit pay to win with sparks allowed. You can abuse sparks in missions with battle pods too, just die when the pod is immune and have a huge boost in dmg when you can hit it again.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 02:37

#26

Dutch-Oven

If you can get a fast speed run using sparks then record it and post it! Nobody has said doing that is against the ethics or "rules" of speedrunning. Sparks are part of the game and fair play. If you aren't using a some kind of hack what's the big deal.

If you wanted to do a no deaths or sonic-mode speedrun then that's different thing, but getting the absolute fastest run time in SK does involve ignoring mobs and loot, and abusing game mechanics in the most intelligent way possible.

I'm all for having a speedrun leaderboard, but it does need a separate bracket for no-death runs and sonic runs, or at least labelling the runs with an "A" or "S" class speedrun.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 07:49

#27

Finale-Flare

@Skeptic12m57s on elite? A

@Skeptic

12m57s on elite? A solid attempt. Not good enough I'm afraid ;) Looks like we would be competing...

@Krakob
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but what do you think about eliminating load times as part of the overall time? I like the idea of starting the timer once the blue mist gate was passed, and stopping it perhaps once the person steps on the elevator?

This would eliminate any time discrepancies from:
-Loading speed (uncontrollable factor)
-Heat at end of each level if unheated gear (takes time to fill)

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 08:16

#28

Skepticraven

↓

@Nefariousity

I'm sure I could speed it up quite a bit since the gunner update, but it is still a solid time (given that it is an elite-solo-fullclear run that includes loading screens on a computer below minimum recommended specs). I've also gotten the Gauntlet down to under 15mins. Never actually timed, but I often do <15 min runs when I decide to bake some cookies. You can tell when there is ~5-15 min delay between runs that I was baking cookies during those runs. Sets of 4-5 runs with little time in between were when I was baking bread.

@Uberer-Alt

Yes, sparks can be "abused" like that. In fact, I suggested multiple times for Grinchlin Assault is to use sparks on the boss. I still view this as a strategy, in the same way I would view Auto Target being used. I'm in agreement with Dutch-Oven's idea of labeling the runs with A and S to clarify if that criteria was met for the run.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 09:51

#29

Krakob

If you all want a vid and don't mind a shameless plug, here's me doing IMF in 11:37 ;3
As a side note, I've sent a submission for SK to be added to speedrun.com. If it's not accepted we can just make our own leaderboards with blackjack and um, kissing booths. I'll be updating OP to reflect on what's generally been agreed upon so far.

@Waterbeat
Since we discussed in-game somewhat I'll just point out that unless you're a godly FSC solo runner, it'll be very hard to actually get more CR from speedclearing FSC than speedrunning O:CH, where you can generate more than 500 cr per minute.

@Hexzyle
This could be done, yes, but I think it would simply be easier to just separate spark and non-spark runs as mentioned several times.

@Nefariousity
It's been discussed slightly but no generally agreed upon solution has been found yet.

I'm not very fond of the idea of pausing when you hit the elevator. Exactly when to pause in this case is a quite muddy matter, and the elevator isn't actually part of the loading screen. If you have items to heat, they're something you should consider removing or heating then. Instead, pausing once the screen turns black just before you start loading the next level might be a better idea. Resuming should be done around 90% loading, since not all mid-run stages have a very clearly defined start, such as a barrier or a button. For example, FSC D26.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 12:06

#30

Poopsie

Leaving some tips notes here.... Since I am reluctant to compete

Saw the video krakob, here's few that I could think of:
1. Let yourself get hit by rocket while in dash animation, instead of using seraph. You'll be thrown few more square forward.
2. On first depth of roar, you can activate one of the two switches early (like immediately after finishing the right side with vials/vase) before stomping two buttons. This would prevent some messed up a little bit better.
3. The moment you start hitting roarmulus twin is actuallly when it got hit by rockets. You don't need wait the animation where it got knocked down.
4. I wonder why you don't use divine avenger charge to kill it? this video -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZpMtDkDLWk (though it needs duo to be this fast, side by side)

5. On my personal experience on most clockworks adventures, wasting emergency revive for spark exploit is a waste of time (especially for solo), except you have nothing to do than waiting for animation (like vana wakes up) to finish. So I don't think it's significant. Also, using mask's cloak cancel the spark damage boost?

On OCH,
6. Let yourself hit by barbed wire instead of waiting of other traps/obstacles. Since, it only damage you less than 1 pip.

I would leave more tips if you want to. (and when my memories works better)

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 12:15

#31

Krakob

The run I linked was actually the first timed run I did of IMF solo. It felt like a decent first attempt, though, so I saved it. I'm aware of some of those improvements, but not even close to all of them. Thanks!

Edit: this just in, SK has been approved for speedrun.com. I'll set it up within a few days!

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 13:29

#32

Mergu-Md

Out of curiosity, what do you use to record? I'd love to get this set up for myself and start doing runs.

EDIT: Woops, noticed you edited front post. Thanks!

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 15:13

#33

Corinthmaxwell

Krakob
That's a decent point but realistically, I don't think there's a lot of players who have chosen to hoard sparks instead of investing in gear.

And why wouldn't there be? That's a bit of an erroneous assumption about who does what during gameplay. I, for example, have more than 100 sparks, and I only use them whenever the situation demands it (i.e., the "Purr Terror" or "Dreams and Nightmares" missions). I've also been "investing in gear" for the past few years, because unlike most players, I don't have hundreds of dollars to throw at the game every month or so. >_>

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 18:32

#34

Finale-Flare

@SkepticOh I did my runs pre

@Skeptic

Oh I did my runs pre gunner update as well! Avenger, nightblade, and blaster were all that was needed. Though I am sure there is a more effective method now...

If this ever becomes a thing, I look forward to competing with you man

Hknestly, I don't remember if my runs were complete or if I skipped something here and there (7 months ago), but if theze leaderboards start I guess its on!

@Krakob
I see!I just think it would be nice to eliminate the indeterminate errors from the leaderboards, but hey, its your idea and your rules, so either way I'm in

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 18:48

#35

Skepticraven

↓

@Nefariousity

Killing everything definitely tacks on quite a bit of time. I would really be surprised if someone else's full clear times (using the same timing methods that I used) was significantly faster than my runs. I find it funny that Krakob's "decent first attempt" speedrun is only 1 minute faster than my average full clear.

@Krakob

Using your video, I kill the boss a full minute faster than you. Sanic Fast.

@Poopsie

There's a whole lot more changes that can speed things up. There's a big one that involves using a large blast bomb (nitronome).

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 19:01

#36

Zincamania-Forum

You should not count loading

You should not count loading screens for 2 reasons.

1) Its unfair because its something that is out of the player's control. The difference can be substantial as shown in your duo run for IMF with Scirio (Your channel went autoplay on me and I kept watching), he loaded about 6 seconds slower than you did, that would be an 18 seconds difference after the 3 depths.

2) Ive never made a video before so I dont know much about video editing, but I doubt it's hard to speed up certain parts of the video. People would just speed up their loading screen if you were to force them to include loading times.

A simple solution would be to start timer when you pass a blue gate or pass any other barrier (like a fence that drops down after stepping on a party button, I think this is the case for some danger missions). If there isnt any barrier, then you need to stand still until you load, the timer starts when you start moving. The timer stops when you go on the elevator and get locked in place. If everyone follows the same rules for timing, there shouldnt be any problems and at least we wont have times that are 18 seconds slower just from having a slightly slower computer or internet connection.

Sun, 05/24/2015 - 20:03

#37

Finale-Flare

@Skeptic Now you really got

@Skeptic

Now you really got me thinking...looks like I have to remake the set and try it all over again. YAY MORE VANA FARMING

@Waterbeat

Your problem...and solution...sound strangely familiar...(post 27)

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 00:59

#38

Zincamania-Forum

I missed that post sorry

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 02:44

#39

Krakob

@Corinthemaxwell
I meant hoarding sparks as in investing resources in sparks as opposed to gear. I really doubt you choose to get hundreds of sparks instead of buying the gear you need.

*I've also been "investing in gear" for the past few years, because unlike most players, I don't have hundreds of dollars to throw at the game every month or so. >_>*
I think you have a pretty bad idea of how the playerbase of SK and f2p games in general look.

@Nefariousity
I may be the one arranging this but that doesn't mean I'll be going purely with what I want for it. I'm doing this to spark life in a pretty unorganised part of the community which has a lot of potential, not just for myself!

@Skepticraven
As I said, "decent first attempt", not "first decent attempt" ;)
I assume the blast bomb is for the final puzzle of the 2nd depth? Stop talking in riddles!

@Waterbeat
That's a good and simple solution to when to unpause the timing! Removes any form of subjectivity about it.

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 09:55

#40

Krakob

I've set up SK on speedrun.com now, although there are still some things to fix (handling of groups). There are no restrictions on submissions, though I'm gonna deny quick runs without video proof to keep the competition going properly.

For those interested in participation, sign up for speedrun.com and go go go!

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 15:29

#41

Qwez

I tried IMF just now, but I couldn't avoid skipping boxes that I were walking by... I ended up with ~12:10 from start to picking up the tokens.
(I got an Elite orb. boxes wurf)

EDIT: again still ~12:10 derping with boxes... but another orb so who cares :D

Mon, 05/25/2015 - 20:50

#42

Poomph

Damn, I never thought about how fun it would be to speedrun SK missions.

As far as loading screens go, I'd imagine the most fair rule would be to exclude hopping on the elevator to the end of the loading screen, but not the small amount of time between the elevator landing and the one-way mist gate. This way, people with worse PCs aren't screwed because of longer loading times, and it comes down to skill, speed, and optimized equipment.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 00:47

#43

Krakob

I wrote a final ruleset here: http://www.speedrun.com/sk/guide/ztn27
One thing a friend thought of was that it may be better to start timing when you start moving on the first level as opposed to when crossing the first one way barrier or hitting the first party button. What do the rest of you think about this? Any other changes you'd like to see?

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 06:46

#44

Whimsicality

If only my laptop wasn't poop I'd love to participate

Question. For Royal Jelly Palace runs, would timing begin after the one way gate or the party button? I would wager starting time when passing the one way gate, as it's possible to activate the switch before stepping on the party button, therefore circumventing the first puzzle in the room and shaving valuable seconds off the clock if time is started on the party button. A bit of a silly question, but it helps to clear up silly things like this.

Another question, are these runs to be done solo? Or could they be done with partners? If the latter, could one person use alternate accounts to utilize some speedrun strats? Multi-clienting is already enough of a grey area to begin with, but still. You mentioned skipping the side rooms of RJP.

EDIT: Looks like I have quite a bit of work to do.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 06:51

#45

Novot

I find it funny that people

I find it funny that people are talking about whether or not to allow something in the game for the runs... Have any of you really watched speed running videos?

Try watching the Ocarina of Time runs nowadays. "Basically", if you can do it with your controller/keyboard, it's legal. Watch a Megaman 2 run, where they zip along the top of the screens by forcing themselves into the ceiling...

Not allowing sparks or sprites is...well I don't even know why it was brought up in the first place.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 06:59

#46

Krakob

Right you are, whichever comes first would be ideal if we are to keep this ruleset.

You can do runs solo or in a group, simply add all players in the name fields, leaving empty entries for empty spots and specify. IMO multiclienting should be counted as the same as group runs - it's indeed quite the grey area.

@Novot
I'm not speaking for everyone, but my personal vision is not at all like that. I'm interested in creating a fair competing environment without discouraging players with worse connections or computers. If look at the leaderboards, you find that it's explicitly stated that all gear and sprites are allowed and there's a separation between runs using sparks and no sparks.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 07:16

#47

Whimsicality

I see. Thank you for clearing that up! Not that I intended to do anything wacky with multiclienting (because my laptop struggles with just 1 client...)

Practicing for recording/streaming sessions (Vog bless my craptop) is proving to be fun so far.

Input optimization is going to be one heck of a ride.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 08:14

#48

Skepticraven

↓

For linux users, llanfair works well as a timer.

That being said, skipping all non-essential monsters (best of 2 runs for me) puts my IMF runtime at 10m16.6s. Maybe if I ever get a computer that can record video without dropping to 10fps...

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 08:55

#49

Novot

I'll definitely be giving

I'll definitely be giving this a go. I'll try streaming it too. I dont have the proper weapons or armor bonuses to be competitive, but I have streamed before (OBS with Twitch), and have recording software (Dxtory).

I'll have to see if any of my fellow guild members want to participate too.

Tue, 05/26/2015 - 09:15

#50

Skepticraven

↓

@Novot

My 10m16.6 (removing loadscreens) IMF solo elite run was with Acheron, Iron Slug, Swiftstrike Buckler, Chaos Cowl+Cloak, Drakon (+MSI perk). No special UVs/rare equip, or even Trinket/Weapon slots. I could have easily gotten the run under 10m if I didnt stop for boxes.

I'm fairly sure the only 2 speedrunning armor sets are going to be Chaos and Black Kat, given their excessive bonuses. I personally don't have a Black Kat set.

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