Adding damage-/defense numbers to the wiki
mer, 06/17/2015 - 03:55
This goes exspecially to Skepticraven but also others who may have data about this:
I noticed that you already messured the defense Points of certain shields and probably have an idea of how much damage in numbers (not hearts) Monsters are dealing.
I want to ask you: Can you please add These numbers into the wiki aside the Amor/shield parts?
It would be also cool, if we can have damage Charts on the wiki on the corresponding item's page about how much damage a certain enemy is dealing in each deapth (w normal, x elemental, y shadow, z pierce damage), in the case there are some stats solved yet.
(Sry for capitalizing. Autocorrecting hates me and for certain reasony I can't disable it here)
mer, 06/17/2015 - 12:13
#2
Offtopic:
One question that bothers me is how did you got an actual number for the defense-value after all? How do you know that the Proto shield's defense is 50? Why 50 and not 500 or 12345,67? Or did you just count the pixels shown after epquipping it?
Ontopic:
Best user-friendly endresult would be an actual chart where there is (in e.g. for shields) an integer number (even if it is rounded) that displays the defense and health value for each deapth and the damage from monsters in numbers on the otherside.
So players can directly compare epquipments in numbers how good a certain amor piece works here and there.
Also one thing: you posted on that certain other topic ( http://forums.spiralknights.com/de/node/110324#comment-1000892 ) which made me curious about how far your testing has been gone till now and what mysteries are solved, whose not and exspecially: Was that kind of trojan damage vs ASP useful or are results already existing otherwhere? If not and it would really help in advancing some riddles, then I would gladly valunteer to use the shields I got to screen some testing versus various monsters in various deapths.
TBH I was surprised that this topic wasn't instantly spammed with APS results, because so many people play vana each day and so many vana-token-trades are done that I simply think that everybody got his own APS-sidekick already and it takes no efford to make a screen after gotten hit once...
So if I can help by such a trival thing as like this, i am gladly willing to do it, but tbh I can't believe that this hasn't been done already.
mer, 06/17/2015 - 14:48
#3
↓
Offtopic response:
That's HP, not defense. I haven't gotten to the defense value yet. However, these equations seem to hold up to my battery of tests for all variations of proto sword damage (lvl 1-10 with all damage boosts, and poison low) for D23 training hall.
I did all the calculations in 3 stages:
1. Figure out exact damage of monster (using armorless damage).
2. Mismatch damage with shield you're testing against (pierce shankle vs proto shield, since proto doesn't protect against pierce. Be sure to also use armor that doesnt protect against pierce) and record number of hits and damage after shield has broken.
3. Minimize "extra damage" down to an exact number, either by healing known values or taking additional known damage.
A lot of the actual shield HP testing can be found in this spreadsheet. You should be able to click on the cells to see the equations I'm using.
Ontopic:
That's the endgame for my testing. I built the wiki call-framework that would be able to handle all the "dont-want-to-see" values and just spit out the final number. Ideally, this would get pushed into a comparison chart, where you could pick 2 weapons, a monster, boosting equipment, and have it spit out the number for the two weapons (and possibly even integrate in DPS using LancerKnightz' data).
The unfortunate part is that I'm too thorough with my assumptions to move fast on this project. There's odd things like me not accepting the 40 hp per pip of health until I figured out that respawning crystal blocks dealt the same 1 damage to everything (proto, chaos, full almarian with normal high pet UV). Adding a health trinket added the correct multiple of 40. [This was also the point at which I decided damage had to be rounded up.]
As of right now, the "next step" for me is confirming Gear-Storm's equations, specifically when the values come close to the "flip" state.
I do have some useful calculation sheets set up for finding the armor values for a long list of weapons against a single monster. The key aspects of that sheet are:
1. Weapon Raw damage is known (these are the ones I know).
2. Armor "guess" must be tinkered with manually (cell B8) to not have any other cells highlighted in red.
Finally, the most recent thread on this topic that wasn't me talking to myself is this one. I went overkill on the relational precision using Zeddy's data to try and convince him the errors he was getting were machine-rounding-errors.
He did a lot of data-recording minimization over in this thread, which I haven't gone through with a fine-toothed comb to confirm personally.
TLDR:
You're right. All this information is scattered around. I've done my best to put links on my personal page for where all my stuff is located.
mer, 06/17/2015 - 18:10
#4
I did read your post, but I didnt get to the links till now. I am buisy next days but I will add to this topic once I am through it.
Thanx for answering so far!
I added some of the data on the wiki already. It's just on my personal page because it's not done yet. You'll notice I had made an example of the end objective here . It just takes a lot of time to finish off all the little measured ends to be complete.
I think zeddy has put in most of his status results, and his preliminary armor testing onto the wiki.