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Suggested Prices for the Supply Depot

4 replies [Last post]
Wed, 10/05/2016 - 13:35
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

All prices not listed are relatively fine in my books.

Fire Crystals

Warm Fire Crystal x50... 10 E
Glowing Fire Crystal x50... 50 E
Shining Fire Crystal x50... 100 E
Radiant Fire Crystal x50... 200 E

Fire crystals were never a part of the original Spiral Knights, and have increased the price of gear by 10x. Players, unfortunately, do not value gear by 10x more than they used to.

Old price of gear in energy, from 2* to 5* = 800+400+200+50 = 1650 CE
New price of gear in energy, 5* level 1 to 5* level 10 = 6,300 E
What I'm proposing as the price of these fire crystals to heat 5* gear: 1,800 E

The tax is still there. Every 5* weapon still requires heat... the difference is that with cheaper prices, more players will consider paying the tax, and more tax in total is likely to be paid, and more weapons get crafted and used. It's a win win situation.

Keys

Shadow Key x4... 1,800

Shadow lairs aren't what they used to be, and could be used to farm in. The only issue is how pricey it is to visit said shadow lairs. If these prices were lowered substantially, I'd be much more inclined to buy shadow keys on the double. Perhaps, as compensation, only the primary key user could receive the shadow lair material. That would make shadow lair materials cost the same as they always have.. in terms of energy needed to forge them.

Wed, 10/05/2016 - 14:48
#1
Fangel's picture
Fangel
hmm

I do believe fire crystal prices should be lowered. However I personally feel like if we wanted to make it balanced, we should use elevator depth prices. Divide the total cost of crystals by 10 and you'll get how many depths we are currently "expected" to completed (under the old system). Pretty easy to see the 5* one being obnoxiously overprice. 70 levels of grinding for 1/9th of a level 10 weapon is not accurate or balanced whatsoever.

Would be better if radiants were closer to, say, 30 levels. 30 * 10. So 300 energy per 50. That's 2700 energy for one 5* item's heat, making buying orbs + all the radiants needed be equal in price to the supply depot 5* item. It's cheaper than buying it however, since you'd have to buy crystals and the item, but it makes for a familiar number.

Next up, I don't think crafting prices need to change. The 4* grind already is severely offputting to players, making them more reliant on grinding will not encourage anyone to stick around longer.

Shadow Keys really ought to be something we can buy with guild money as well as from the depot for energy. Give officers and higher the ability to purchase shadow keys in the guildhall which is then placed in officer storage, and any officer can take them from there. I'd say give them a price like 200k crowns so that it's more expensive than buying it from the depot, but it's the work of a guild for something rather than individual effort (also gives a reason for guilds to stockpile crowns and acts as an additional crown sink. Guild bonds can also be played with more).

Making shadow keys cheaper is sorta eh. I like the idea of more shadow lairs, but the artificial keeping them rare prevents endless grinding. Sure, more end-game grinding areas would be wonderful, I just don't think shadow lairs should become an easy normal instead of being a difficult end-game challenge that players new and old can look at with anticipation.

Wed, 10/05/2016 - 17:23
#2
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

"We should use elevator depth prices."

I'm not opposed to this, although to me it makes more sense to use the direct costs since those are paralleled and we're talking about real money put in, not levels completed... especially with mist out of the picture. Regardless of what you use, the result is the same- radiant fire crystals, and all fire crystals for that matter, are vastly over priced.

"I don't think crafting prices need to change."

I'll take it out because I didn't think of that argument and you're right. That being said, the radiants are going to scare them off anyway.. we're talking a magnitude of difference; can you really see them getting to rads and not leaving or at least being rather troubled?

"I just don't think shadow lairs should become an easy normal"

I feel like any cost and the sheer difficulty of the lairs will prevent that. Try going on random runs through the danger missions. Let whoever join you. They fail so easily it's not even funny... now ask yourself, would they really pay to go on anything like a shadow lair? Yes but only for the armor. That fact wouldn't change. Shadow lairs as special content may change a bit for us old timers, but I think to a large extent it already has.. which is truly a shame. For the uninitiated, I have a feeling they'd still be magical.

Thu, 10/06/2016 - 12:03
#3
Fangel's picture
Fangel
eh

The moment we can readily and reliably farm shadow lairs is the moment we separate the elite endgame players from the mid-tier ones. Players would learn how to farm UFSC at maximum efficiency.

Essentially, shadow lairs are special because of their difficulty... And it not being a cheap slap-to-the-face difficulty like the final arena in grinchlin assault. Shadow lairs have genuine difficulty where each movement counts due to the cluster of enemies, not praying to RNG that the mender doesn't place down a rune and reverse all the effort you've put forth in a single move. Because of this, the levels will be attractive and farmable.

This makes these levels lose that fearsome charm. Every time I stand outside of a shadow lair gate I get giddy. I know what I'm getting myself into, but I also love to watch other people's reactions to the new level setups.

Additionally, such a price change for shadow keys will encourage players to play solo. Shadow lairs are one of the last remaining group exercises we have in the game - no-one wants to go into one alone because they don't want to spend 1,800 energy just to lose. They are willing to go in with 4 people paying only 450 energy with a good chance at winning. Having this content be exhilarating, rare, but also an investment so that completing it feels good rather than just feels empty(like how danger missions feel)... I think we should keep that.

TL;DR - having hard content cost an entry fee makes completing the content feel good, and making it expensive alone but fair in a group makes players want to team up in a game where we have little motive to play with other players anymore.

Thu, 10/06/2016 - 12:23
#4
Fehzors-Forum-Alt's picture
Fehzors-Forum-Alt

You know what? Forget it. My ideas are useless and so am I. I get it. You don't have to tell me. Good bye.

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