Teach Me How to Be A Brick Wall (Or, Why Traditional MMO Tanks Don't Work)
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 02:18
NOTE: The theme of this thread has changed drastically since the first post. I would suggest reading through the entire thread so far so that you know what's going on. TL;DR version: starts off with an MMO tank mindset, changes mind with help of forumgoers, becomes better player, and is still learning how to be a better player so you should totally help him.
EXTRA EDIT: I've received a lot of in-game praise from people about this post, and how my decisions in this thread have influenced their decisions on equipment. To me, this is wonderful--I have helped people like me get better at the game. However, everyone plays differently; as such, I would like to make clear that my decisions here don't exactly reflect the best decisions available for all players. I ended up becoming a mutation of swordsman, bomber, and gunner, utilizing all three weapon styles in unison to suit a playstyle completely custom to myself, and relatively defensive in style. At this point, I would not consider myself "tanky" in a traditional sense but I do notice that I die less frequently against enemies I initially dreaded. My point is, the decisions to make on your armor are yours to make and yours alone, and they are no one else's. That said, I'm glad to be a starting point for many of you. Thanks for reading this thread through, and thanks to the posters who helped!
The running theme of this game, from what I've seen so far, seems to be that the more damage you have, the better off you are; defensive characters are sort of left in the dust. My friends are building for attack speed and damage and maybe a little bit of armor on the side, but mostly everything seems to be for damage. See, I'm not a big fan of that--I like being that guy that refuses to go down for any reason ever. If the Core ends up collapsing on itself and blowing the entirety of Cradle apart, I want to be able to log in after the fact and watch as my character drifts through space with his health bar still mostly intact. In fact, if his health bar is 50 blocks long, that's even better. I don't need extra damage, or to move faster, or wear a silly flaming dog hat; I have Faust, a blaster, and a graviton bomb, so armor tough enough to survive atmospheric re-entry is all I need.
There are some armors that give something like what I want--the plate series is nice, for sure--but it leaves me vulnerable to elemental and shadow damage, just wearing it. The crazy hodgepodge I have now (Wyvern Scale Helm, Mighty Cobalt Armor, Sinister Skelly Shield) is decent, but I'm still seeing more than one health block pop off at once. Slow is fine, status weaknesses are okay (it's what those nice blue-green pills are for), and the only mission is to make a character as hard to put out of commission as possible.
The title says it all, folks. What are your builds and practices for making a character into a walking wall of unstoppable metal?
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 03:45
#2
That's true, if you want to
That's true, if you want to be hard to put down in this game, its more of a case of being able to either get out of the way of incoming attacks, or to block them with your shield, trying to act like Ye-Olde-and-Generic-e Tank of Azerothian/Norrathian times will only get you killed, which depending on your team-mates can be a good (oh hey they get some of your heat for you just rushing ahead to take all the initial aggro, thinking your Alistar.) or bad (Why did the only person in our Jelly King run that bothered to bring a Faust have to be an ex-WoW Addict?)
That said, if you can prepare accordingly for what your about to face against, you shouldnt be able to take too much damage from attacks, but for the love of whatever Divine Snipes that exist, Dont act like a Heavy, there's no Medics here to ubercharge your butt, only Spies, Snipers and Demomen exist in this game, unless you mean the enemy side, they get Menders >:(
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 04:19
#3
Dodge don't tank
The question is not "how can I be an unstoppable tank." Instead the question should be "how can I be an illusive rouge?" Dodge is your best defense. Your second best defense is a good offense. It doesn't matter what your equipment is, rushing in will only get you killed.
There's an excellent thread on this topic posted in general discussion. Go ahead and give it a read.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 13:30
#4
Alright, then, a slight
Alright, then, a slight change of question: Tell me how to build a nice, resilient character while not sacrificing the ability to dodge efficiently, or better, give me more openings to escape from a bad situation. Make this into a learning thread for those of us used to building heavy defensive characters, with a nice title that draws in some folks acquainted with the MMO status quo, as it were. Perhaps it will end up a story about a knight who gets stuck at tier 3 with one mindset, talks to other knights who change his mind, and then becomes that unstoppable character anyways but in a completely different way than he imagined.
Obviously, if that means that a good offense is the best defense in this game, a change of offensive equipment would be desirable. Here's what I've got, tell me about making it better.
- Primary Weapon: Faust
- Secondary Weapon: Master Blaster
- Tertiary Weapon: Graviton Bomb
I'm definitely dropping the graviton bomb, but holding onto it for later. It will get buffed or changed, and it will need it, because right now it's just too much of a low-damage, enemy-flinging mess to use in party or even solo play. Some of the more conventional explosives I've seen give me plenty of options to escape, though I also see the benefits of a status-causing explosive, so I'm kinda between the blast bomb series (likely Nitronome or Irontech Destroyer) or the Haze Bomb branches. Faust, though, I'm not letting go of. I've gotten good with it, and it hurts all of the monsters I particularly hate, plus that whole "curse monsters so that they deal 300 damage to themselves" thing. I'm flexible with the gun, but enjoy the mobility it gives me, so I was thinking about an alchemer of some sort.
If I were to throw away everything and start over (save for Faust), I'd end up probably with one of the two bomb sets listed before, plus probably a Magma Driver for setting things on fire or a Cryo Driver for making sure particularly bad things don't get too close.
As for armor, which is clearly a secondary goal:
- Helmet: Wyvern Scale Helm
- Armor: Mighty Cobalt Armor
- Shield: Dread Skelly Shield
I like the idea of the demo suits due to the elemental resistance and my ever-growing fondness for bombs. Everything else is pretty flexible, and I have no decisions one way or another on what to replace. Played with the idea of a Vog Cub Coat for a bit as well.
So, folks, tell me all about playing a more defensive (or I guess dodgy) character. Equipment ideas, escape plans, and bombs accepted.
Also
thinking your Alistar
I prefer Singed, actually.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 15:32
#5
Singed, heh, some days I just
Singed, heh, some days I just feel like running head first into an enemy team with poison and win trailing behind me and a W in my eye with an E following it up.... ahem. Anyway, back on topic, I may be incredibly new here, but So far I've seen that the only way to truly tank is to avoid the hits or block them. I'm currently on T2 with 4* armor a 4* sword and the rest being 3* or 2*, so I'm afraid I can't give you any real information on how to build a character who's able to get out of situations except to say, that knock-back is your friend and will save your skin many times.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 21:27
#6
Graviton bomb is ok for
Graviton bomb is ok for keeping enemies away from you, but nitronome is best for when you're backed into a corner and shivermist is best for when a huge mob is following you. (Don't use shivermist when you're surrounded. You'll just get yourself trapped and killed.) Demo gear is definitely helpful if you plan to use lots of bombs, but you'll miss the shadow and piercing defense in a lot of places if you go with a full demo set.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 22:11
#7
Also, i dont know if you know
Also, i dont know if you know this, but armor bonuses are added together, then halved, meaning that the combination you have going right now makes you good against piercing, but leaves your elemental and normal(!) defenses suffering.
If you do want to get bombing though, I would reccomend a Spiral Demo Set, either a Skelly shield or a Defender, alongside using either Skelly Charms if you picked the defender, or Jelly bands if you picked the Skelly Shield, this should give you a nice spread of defenses outside of UVs popping up.
Speaking of which, most of the items in this list start off at 2*, making UV farming a possibility if you have Crystal Energy to burn.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 22:28
#8
With the advice given in this
With the advice given in this thread so far, here's what I'm thinking I should switch up to:
Weapons
- Melee: Faust (totally recommend that thread elsewhere in the forums about heavy weapons, by the way)
- Ranged: Cryo Driver
- Bomb: Irontech Destroyer or Nitronome or ??? (suggestions needed)
Armor:
- Helmet: ??? (it was stated that my normal defenses are too low. I used this helmet due to a feeling that my defenses were uneven in those two categories. Suggestions needed)
- Armor: Vog Cub Coat or Spiral Demo Suit series (love the appearance on this, which variant is best though?)
- Shield: Dread Skelly Shield (I don't see shadow defense mentioned much--do I need to ramp it up higher or is this shield effective enough?)
I am just full of questions now, but I can already tell I'm starting to get better at the game.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 22:48
#9
Hey Steelfoot. I came into
Hey Steelfoot. I came into the game with much the same desire, to play a tank, and had the experience which others have described in this thread. The best defense in Spiral Knights is a good offense plus dodging. Your weapons play a crucial role in your play style, and determine whether you are a "defensive" player or what not.
For the tank mindset I will comment on a few weapons. Most armor feels pretty equal from my experience, I mean I have mitigated similar damage wearing Volcanic Demo Helm and the cloth one, so I would go mostly for the look if I were go. Stuff like Volcanic Plate Mail will really give you that tank "feel". And if you feel it necessary you can hide your mis-matched armor geared for taking the correct damage underneath later on. I know at least one person that wears his and kills vanaduke with ease, so it's a fine armor for playing.
As far as defensive play is concerned, some items are better than others.
Faust/DA = Defensive oriented due to their knockback ability with the double swing. One does shadow, one does elemental. Both excellent choices.
Khorovod = The normal-damange variant of the two above swords. HUGE knockback and the charge attack feels like a beast. Highly recommend playing with this unique sword if you want to feel like a viking and play in a defensive style. 4* cap isn't that much of a detriment, since it's charge attack can still 1-shot teir 3 gun puppies (if aimed well).
Calibur series = Excellent charge attack for defensive play styles. If you go with this line I recommend getting Charge Time Reduction: Medium since you will be utilizing the charge attack most often, as swinging the sword itself does not feel very powerful or "tank-y"
For guns, I don't know. Tanks don't use guns. I guess I'd recommend Volt Alchemer since it doesn't freeze enemies, it slows them down a little, and it looks cooler than cryo. But blaster series looks great and the Valiance final gun has a knockback ability.
Bombs, I do recommend a knockback (nitro or big angry) or a graviton bomb. The most "tank like" characters I see are bombers, especially in mad bomber suits" who run around planting bombs and taking hits (since they can never shield). You might consider going that route and forgoing swords entirely. It's a super fun playstyle, takes a bit of skill though.
Sun, 06/26/2011 - 23:50
#10
Hm
Volcanic Plate set & Shield. (Or Ironmight depending on the stratum)
One sword.
One gun.
One bomb.
That gear got me through a lot. I would still use it if I didn't absolutely need max bomb ctr for what I'm doing.
I ran Leviathan/Hail Driver/Agni(or Shiver) for weapons.
IMO this game is about surviving, higher attack speed and damage bonuses hardly do any difference.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 00:10
#11
Mad bomber not really a tank.
Mad bomber not really a tank. Given the horrific weakness to ailments (main concern is fire/shock, but stun/freeze too) you'll be sporting, mad bomber is more of a glass cannon than anything. If you take any status hits, you will go down faster than a bag of rocks. It takes some skill but mostly practice to figure out the exact charge times on your bombs, and how to chain them. Once you get that down, you will be basically untouchable, and I think this is where the illusion of being a tank comes in. I've seen skilled bombers taking out whole arenas more or less singlehandedly, and they generally do it while only taking a few hits, if any. Most of the time, any damage they take is from teammates accidentally knocking monsters around or kiting monsters into them.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 03:24
#12
More testing has pretty much
More testing has pretty much confirmed that the Cryotech series isn't what I'm looking for; I was hoping that the freeze effect wouldn't end if I hit something frozen with just the alchemer, but apparently that's not the case for some reason I can't come up with. I'm definitely holding on to my blaster, which has gotten me through just about everything anyways.
I'm beginning to enjoy bombs more and more, however... I think I'm going to go with the bombing gear, possibly with the Mad Bomber Suit so that I have an excuse to plug in my microphone and talk about how the government is putting cans of lima beans I don't remember buying in my pantry to spy on me or something. Also, I'll probably pop another one of my weapon slot tokens so I get two bombs, one with damage and another with just raw crowd control power (graviton for now?).
This is really starting to hurt my energy supply, but I'll be okay. I think. And hey, if I exhaust all of these different paths I go down, I'll probably end up with a sweet suit of armor and weapons out of the pieces I've tried so far anyways!
You all are awesome helps, thanks for all of the suggestions so far. Keep 'em coming, I'm still listening. The more info I've got, the better a player I'll be, which means if you end up rolling me in a party sometime, I won't be a terrible player. See, it's win-win here.
DISCLAIMER: I'm probably not actually going to get the Mad Bomber Suit, more likely the Volcanic one. However, I can only imagine the hilarity of my party members' response when I start on about the rainbows in my water being CIA plants while dropping a constant stream of gravity wells and other forms of pain.
EDIT: To simplify the armor chatter somewhat, I have a better question: what resistances should I prioritize/what order of precedence should I put them in? I'm assuming that this is the priority:
- Normal (gremlins, a lot of constructs, some slimes, Lumbers; everything that everyone hates that isn't Elemental)
- Elemental (everything that does this damage type hurts, especially gun puppies)
- Piercing (most of the monsters that do this type are just annoying, not really damaging, though I hate wolvers)
- Shadow (nearly everything that does this is easy to kite or control in some other way, like zombies)
Though I sorta feel like Shadow and Piercing are kind of in the same bracket and could probably be switched interchangeably.
Also, I hear a lot about upgrading shields. I'm assuming this is because the "block gauge" benefit (as it were) is far more valuable than the defensive benefits of other pieces? If this is the case, why don't I see more Omega Shells?
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 07:49
#13
I'd focus mainly on Elemental
I'd focus mainly on Elemental as a Bomber. Most of the things that will be hitting you will be ranged attacks of one kind or another, and nearly all of those are elemental in nature.
The exception being dilberts and their highly aggravating shadow damage.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 08:33
#14
Shadow (nearly everything
Shadow (nearly everything that does this is easy to kite or control in some other way, like zombies)
This is largely true. Even the much feared Greavers aren't too hard to deal with, and their status-effect Haze is more of a problem than their actual attack.
At least, it's true, right up until you run into Devilites. They spawn in fairly large numbers, sometimes in fairly small spaces, and their mode of attack is to basically spam long range shadow attacks in the form of very fast projectiles. They are the #1 argument for either cultivating an armor set with good Shadow defense (or at least a good Shadow UV), or simply skipping fiend strata altogether.
As for the shield comment:
Until fairly recently I was using a Swiftstrike Shield, which gives increased attack speed, but it's a dead-end 3* shield with fairly pitiful defense. Eventually I had to get a 4* shield to get my T3 clearance, which required me to run with a different 3* shield in order to heat it up to level 5 so I could craft the upgrade. I figured I'd get my clearance, and even if I kept using the 4* for actual T3 runs, I could go back to the Swiftstrike for T2 stuff. 5 or 6 JK runs later, and I haven't unequipped my Mighty Defender yet.
All I will say is: I'm not missing the attack speed increase, at all.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 10:23
#15
yay you enjoy bombing
Experienced bomber speaking here. Currently still wearing Volcanic Demo Helm and Mad Bomber Suit, and not wielding any bombs... Gran Faust and Divine Avenger are just better defensively (and offensively, clearly). My third weapon is some version of the Snarble Barb, it doesn't disappoint.
Bombs I've used in the past: Ash of Agni, Shivermist Buster, Twisted Spine Cone, Radiant Sun Shards. Bombing is just more fun than everything else, except I've grown an aversion to charging weapons before they become useful.
For crowd control I'd recommend the Freezing Vaporizer line. You'll love it more and more up until you craft the 5* version, then you'll want to marry it. It's so good that you'll often see swordfighters carry one. (I wouldn't call Graviton crowd control exactly. Or only for two seconds, after that it's crowd out of control.)
As for your other bomb, there's a couple of good ones to pick from and it depends on your playstyle. If you prefer finishing things off with your sword/gun, then you might like another haze line bomb (poison/fire). If you just love bombing a lot, then I guess Nitronome will make you smile (and laugh) a lot more - just consider that your teammates might go blind from the blast. But if you really like bombing that much, then why would you still carry a sword and gun.
As for shields... since piercing and shadow damage got made more common I've invested in a Drake Scale Shield and upgraded that to Wyvern Scale, thinking I would need defense from piercing and elemental mostly. I must say I'm disappointed with it. I have personally concluded that any shield that does not provide Normal defense is just not worth its crowns. And any shield that does, is basically suitable against only one or two damage types (Normal + something). Guess I'll try a shield with full Normal defense next...
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 13:42
#16
Definitely getting a
Definitely getting a Shivermist. The Cryotech was a good idea in concept, but the Shivermist, from what's being said, is a good idea in practice. On a side note, the Cryotech line shattering its own ice effect is kind of silly. Aren't you shooting balls of liquid nitrogen anyways?
As for the second bomb, I know it needs to be some form of damage device, and I'm leaning towards a straight explosion rather than the needle bombs or the fire damage from Ash of Agni. My question is, which is more effective: the Irontech Destroyer, Nitronome, or the Big Angry Bomb? I know Nitronome is great for making your teammates angry at you, but also extremely effective. I haven't heard much either way about the Irontech or Big Angry Bombs, though. Any users of either want to comment either way?
At this point, my armor is pretty much set. I'll be switching over to the Demo Suit line as soon as I have the crowns for it, and depending on how much fun I'm having exploding things (and how evasive I feel), it'll turn into the Volcanic or Mad Bomber suit. My helmet's a little iffy though, but it will be the only thing that's giving me piercing resistance after the switch, so I figure it ultimately works out in my favor. This will leave me with two things that give normal resistance, two that give elemental, and one each for shadow and piercing. This seems balanced, in my head, though I could be wrong.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 18:13
#17
Helm Over Armor
If you go for only one piece of Volcanic Demo, get the helm instead of the armor. The helm gives medium charge time reduction. The armor only gives low charge time reduction.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 19:52
#18
Advice taken, though that
Advice taken, though that leaves me with a vacuum in my armor slot at the moment. I was going to get the Volcanic Demo suit and then keep my current helmet, but the charge time reduction simply makes a great deal more sense.
I'm going to end up lacking any sort of piercing defense, which despite not being a particularly threatening damage type, is still enough to give me a bit of pause. I could end up with the Skolver Coat, which will give me an offensive bonus, or swap over to Azure Guardian equipment (which I still have available) for a bit more of a defensive boon. I could also go with just throwing out piercing resist altogether and grab more bombing equipment because explosions.
Also, a shield-related question: though I wear a Sinister Skelly Shield, it seems that it's not actually adding any shadow resistance to my stats page. Is this because shield damage resistances have absolutely nothing to do with the character's resistances, basically having a separate health bar and damage reduction stats from the player? Or is it just a bug? The wiki itself is somewhat of a mixed message on the matter. If this is indeed the case, is there any reason why I shouldn't take a shield with piercing resistance (since I block nearly everything piercing damage-related, meaning it will drain my shield less) or elemental resistance (because of gun puppies and various other monsters that everyone hates)?
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 19:54
#19
Is this because shield damage
Is this because shield damage resistances have absolutely nothing to do with the character's resistances, basically having a separate health bar and damage reduction stats from the player?
Yep.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 20:36
#20
Odd, but I guess that makes
Odd, but I guess that makes sense from a real world standpoint. I'll probably swap over to one of the other shield varieties, then. Now that I look at it, that makes the Wyvern Scale Shield a clear choice for me, giving me both piercing and elemental resistance, which as I mentioned are the two types I find myself most often blocking for.
This effectively leaves me with no shadow resistance, however, and I've never been a big fan of devilites... though I still have that vacuum in my armor slot to contend with. What goes there, then?
EDIT: Also just wanted to let everyone here know that you're probably the most useful and friendly forumers on any official MMO site ever. If this were the WoW or the MapleStory or pretty much any other forums, I'd have gotten harassed over my initial judgment rather than aided into becoming a useful, productive player. For the love of Cradle, do not let any of the aforementioned mindsets take over this forum. You have no idea how thankful I am.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 21:40
#21
You could try for a Shadow UV
You could try for a Shadow UV on the Wyvern shield, but since the base model is 3*, it's kind of pricey to ragecraft for UVs.
I wish there was an Elemental/Shadow shield out there.
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 22:07
#22
Actually, I just generated a
Actually, I just generated a demo helmet with a light (but substantial) normal defense UV, so... yeah, looks like the game is rewarding me for learning! Plus I have enough heat to upgrade my blaster to Valiance, which should pretty much be the last handgun I ever need. Completely out of crowns, though. Energy's not so bad anymore, just money's tight.
That said, I think I'll ultimately just give up on shadow resistance. As much as I hate devilites, I've learned how to deal with them using my gun and freeze bombs without taking so much as a single hit. Guess I'm packing on the whole demo suit and grabbing the aforementioned shield after all!
This is looking like the wrap-up point of this thread, actually. I've taken a 180-degree turn as a player, am now dealing substantially more damage without losing any real survivability (and actually gaining some!). I'm still completely out of crowns, but that will change soon--I'm headed off on another Royal Jelly run here shortly to get some more heat and cash. I'm still a touch worried about piercing defense, but I feel like I'll be safe behind a solid shield. At this point, gimme some closing ideas: is there any major issues with the following build?
Weapons
- Melee: Faust
- Ranged: Valiance
- Bombs: Freezing Atomizer and Nitronome or Irontech Destroyer or Big Angry Bomb (I will be asking about the latter three in the bomb thread shortly.)
Armor
- Helmet: Heavy Demo Helm
- Armor: Heavy Demo Suit
- Shield: Wyvern Scale Shield
Again, you all are awesome, thanks so much!
Mon, 06/27/2011 - 22:48
#23
Hmm, i dont suppose we could
Hmm, i dont suppose we could have your In Game Name on here? Would be far easier to talk to you that way than to talk on this forum, plus we could actually show you some tricks!
Tue, 06/28/2011 - 19:58
#24
Same one as it is here!
Same one as it is here! Unfortunately my real account is my Steam account, and for some reason I couldn't access these forums with it.
Also you have literally no idea how awesome it would be to have an experienced player show me what I'm doing, since I have only the faintest clue. At least I read the wiki thoroughly, though.
EDIT: Giving this a quick bump for more suggestions before I start buying more recipes. Last chance to help me change, folks!
Tue, 06/28/2011 - 22:38
#25
I think the advice you have
I think the advice you have received is good. I particularly like Kaybol's kit, since that's the same thing I do. Volc Helm and Mad Bomber Suit is the best compromise for a strong bomber.
I think you are over worried about pierce resist. There are only 4 major sources really: jellies, spikes, wolvers in danger rooms or arenas, and lichen colonies or tier 3 lichens. Jellies and spikes are the most avoidable damage sources in the game. Lichen and colonies are easily handled with a gun or by just shielding when they attack, which is not often enough to break even a weak shield. And as a bomber, wolvers in danger rooms or arenas are not as scary.
I'd recommend using a shield with normal on it. Try out the Plate Shield like or even an owlite, to help offset Mad Bomber. I did play with Wyvern, and it's a cool looking shield, but it left me overall wishing for something stronger. Shield use is a very strategic element of this game so you should pick one that fits the things you will be shielding most, and work on avoiding the rest. Your other option is just to keep skelly shield. It's a great shield, especially for Fiend levels where the projectiles will murder you in moments. At some point in the future you will want a 5* shadow shield probably anyway. (you were correct in noting that shield stats apply to the bubble of the shield).
As for nitro vs the others, there are several discussions highlighting the pros and cons in various threads. Personally I use nitro because I don't like walk speed reduction. I'm not averse to trying the others. Fuse timer is the biggest issue after walk speed, but if you drop them in sequence then after the first they go off at the same time. The next factor after that is blast radius, which is not as important as some would think, but it does demand a riskier playstyle around spike-traps in FSC.
Tue, 06/28/2011 - 23:01
#26
Where does the Omega Shell
Where does the Omega Shell fit in in all of this? It has a boatload of health and resists normal. In my mind, that makes it a good all-around shield. Is that the case, or is there some crippling weakness that prevents its extra health from being effective?
Further, what does the Volcanic Plate Shield have that the Ironmight one does not? It seems like the Ironmight shield is effectively the same shield as the Volcanic, but with additional piercing resist, making it an obvious choice over the Volcanic, plus it also looks better. Is there a benefit I'm missing?
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 00:16
#27
You are not missing much.
You are not missing much. The bars are EDIT: NOT!! always completely accurate. Volcanic has more normal defense than Ironmight and it has fire resist on the bubble so you can stand in fire longer and it won't break through.
Omega has the most normal defense I think. If you get hit with an attack that is 50% normal and 50% elemental then you will do better with a mixed defense shield. But that only matters on things like Vanadukes mace that can shatter a shield in one hit. Ironmight looks cool :D
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 00:24
#28
For your shield choice (and
For your shield choice (and armor) keep in mind overlap between defense and resist. There are 4 damage types that get reduced in severity by defense; shadow, normal, elemental, and pierce. Then, there are sub-catagories of elemental damage that can be resisted: fire, shock, poison, freeze. Having the resist on your shield bubble makes you able to stand that particular element more before it bursts. Having it on armor reduces the amount of time the status affect will apply to you (and maybe reduces damage? maybe lets you possibly resist it completely? not sure).
Since elemental is the second most ubiquitous damage type after normal, obviously the most powerful shields tend to be normal & elemental shields. However, that doesn't mean it's the only option.
In the case of Volcanic, it has normal and fire, which makes it OK for FSC but not so much for other elemental damage types. Ironmight has enough normal to make it through FSC as well, but it's not ideal since if you get caught in zombie flame, on a grate, or criss-crossed with gun puppy flames you won't have the bubble strength to last safely through the effect. That's why volcanic is popular. It's like an omega shell but with the ability to stand fire.
So an Ironmight with max or high UV fire resist would be quite similar. As would an Omega Shell with the same.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 05:57
#29
"Then, there are
"Then, there are sub-catagories of elemental damage that can be resisted: fire, shock, poison, freeze."
Those are not elements. Those are status effects. They are completely unrelated to Elemental damage. Zombies, Greavers and Spookats can inflict any and all of those status effects but their attacks are Shadow-based. Lumbers can also inflict any of those status effects, but their attacks are Normal-based. Slimes and Beasts can inflict any of those status effects but their attacks are Piercing-based...
...What on earth convinced you they were tied to Elemental damage to begin with? ._.
A shield with resistance to a status effect will take sharply reduced damage from attacks that can deal that status effect.
Increased resistances on your armor reduce the severity of a status effect, and can even render you immune to weaker versions of that status effect.
Owlite Shield is often recommended because if its Normal and Elemental defenses, plus its resistances to the two most annoying status effects: Shock and Fire. The downside is, it's ugly until 5*. Don't go with the "element"-break shields, they only go up to 3* so you'd have to replace them very quickly anyway.
Until you've beaten Vanaduke several times, the only Shadow-based shield is the Skelly shield. After you've collected enough Seals from Vanaduke, the Blackened Crest --> Crest of Almire is a pretty sweet shield, and in fact it's just about as perfect as it gets for Firestorm Citadel.
If you're looking at a Piercing-based shield, try collecting tokens from the Snarbolax to get the Bristling Buckler for its bonus to sword damage.
The Plate Shield, due to its Stun resistance, can withstand prolonged beatings from a Lumber or Trojan. Only problem is, it doesn't survive many hits in Tier 3 against pure non-Normal attacks.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:18
#30
Think I'm going to hold on to
Think I'm going to hold on to my Skelly shield for the moment, mostly because I've already run up a huge tab switching an entire equipment set over to the bomber gear and leveling it up. I can definitely see the merit in using it for Devilites, and I hate Greavers with a passion, but I tend to encounter elemental damage far more than shadow damage. I am definitely considering the Owlite shield series (ugly and expensive as they are). The Wyvern Scale shield is somewhat recurring in my head because of the elemental and piercing resist, but at this point the only things that do piercing damage in any quantity are slimes and wolvers, both of which I just smash a couple times with Faust and watch as they poof into purple clouds; pretty much the only reason I think about it is so that I don't have a stupid-looking owl glued to my arm. The silly owl looks like the best decision at the moment, however, much as I hate to admit it; the only other decision in my head is the Volcanic Plate Shield, which will give me some decent survivability in Firestorm Citadel. As far as I'm aware, everything in there sets people on fire, so the shield reduction against such effects would give me a lot of bang for my buck.
I swear, though, f there was an elemental/shadow resist shield, I'd drop everything and craft that right now.
Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:24
#31
"I swear, though, f there was
"I swear, though, f there was an elemental/shadow resist shield, I'd drop everything and craft that right now."
I had that exact sentiment about a month and a half ago.
...And y'know what? I still do.
Not enough Shadow shields in this game. The Crest of Almire is Normal+Shadow with Fire+Shock resistances, but you need to save up 35 boss tokens from Vanaduke for it-- and by that time, you've pretty much proven that you can survive without it.
Your gear loadout is sounding battleworthy: your only unprotected damage type is Piercing, which comes from largely-predictable foes, and a shadow shield allows you to better stand toe-to-toe against Phantoms in Graveyards: you can have your team run forward and clear out the zombies for loot, crowns and heat while you corpse-camp those pesky phantoms and keep them knocked out, and out of your team's hair. Plus I like bombs. Blast Bombs are fun and Haze Bombs are useful.
Now go forth and plant your Steel Foot into Snarble's Bottom.
Mon, 07/18/2011 - 11:58
#32
get the owlite line. it has
get the owlite line. it has good elemental defense
That doesn't really work in this game, especially in tier 3. The key is to AVOID hits, since once you get to tier 3, losing six or so bars of health from a hit isn't at all unexpected. This isn't the sort of game where you're expected to trade blows with the enemy.