Spiral Knights - Ask another Master Gunslinger Anything

Ask another Master Gunslinger Anything

398 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/27/2011 - 23:10

Master-Gunslinger

So many have seen the thread Ask a Master Gunslinger Anything by FossaFerox, but seeing as how he hasn't really came back I decided to take it upon myself to start up another. All credit goes to him for the idea (and much of the original layout), I'm just starting another. Who knows? Maybe you'll get a viewpoint that Fossa wouldn't have noticed. Either way, you should check out his thread for questions already asked and answered.

If you have any questions or concerns about guns, now's the time to voice them. I'll do my best to respond to every question posted here throughout my time on the forums.

A bit about me so you know who's fielding these questions. Some of you know me as Dirty-Harry. I've been gunslinging ever since I landed out of the drop pod and found a Protogun in my arsenal. I've used, sold and traded a large portion of the guns in the game, and while I have not crafted all of the 5* guns, I know enough about that gun line that a couple bigger numbers that show up may not change my point of view. The only gunslinger set I have not touched on yet has been the Justifier set. I've run through T1-T3 with many different combinations of guns and have tried out using many lines against different enemies and what's the best tactic to deal with certain areas or monsters. I've slaughtered Snarbolax, have done Royal Jelly Palace runs to a days end, and had several unsuccessful Vanaduke attempts.

My current loadout is as follows:
Helmet: Nameless Hat UV Freeze Resistance Low.
Armor: Nameless Poncho UV Shadow Defense Medium.
Shield: Dragon Scale Shield UV Normal Defense Medium.
Primary Slot: Callahan UV Damage Bonus vs Beast Very High.
Secondary Slot: Biohazard UV Damage Bonus vs Gremlin Medium.
Tertiary Slot: Storm Driver UV Increased Attack Speed Medium.
Quaternary Slot: Valiance UV Increased Attack Speed Low, Charge Time Reduction Medium, Damage Bonus vs Gremlin High. or Shivermist Buster UV Charge Time Reduction Medium.
Primary Trinket: Elite Trueshot Module.
Secondary Trinket: Elite Handgun Focus Module.

For Vanaduke/Firestorm Citadel runs my equipment varies a bit.
Helmet: Perfect Seerus Mask UV Shadow Defense Medium.
Armor: Shadowsun Stetson UV Fire Resistance Medium.
Shield: Swiftstrike Buckler UV Shadow Defense Medium
Primary Slot: Blitz Needle or Callahan UV Damage Bonus vs Beast Very High.
Secondary Slot: Storm Driver UV Increased Attack Speed Medium.
Tertiary Slot: Nova Driver.
Quaternary Slot: *same
Primary Trinket: *same
Secondary Trinket: *same

Now, ask away!

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 00:04

Patchumz

Legacy Username

I might as well get multiple

I might as well get multiple opinions :P

Is there ever a reason to get one of the Antigua series' guns? I have spare tokens from heat farming and was wondering if the weapons were worth a damn, or if I should just go for another sealed sword instead. Currently use a Cryo and Volt driver.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 00:45

Master-Gunslinger

@Patchumz

Antiguas are very situational guns, they are great because of the long range, quick bullets and mobility. The Blackhawk and Sentenza are fairly bad because of the enemies it's good against happens to be the enemies that dodge like crazy. I've seen some people use the blackhawk to corner menders or split them up, but that's about it for where their uses are.

Now the Argent Peacemaker and Silversix are a different story, in Firestorm Citadel it is slightly good against most of the enemies there, and because of it's range it's a real good way of dealing with Vanaduke's (weak against piercing) late stages without having to risk getting hit by the fire orbs. If you only are bringing one gun to FSC then the Argent may be a great sidearm. But, considering that it's pure-typed ranged companions gain the full benefit of the type damage bonus, bringing a elemental alchemer and a Callahan (or even Needle shot for those that can make it work) will definitely do more damage, and may even be more useful because of their ability to inflict status ailments.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 00:50

Patchumz

Legacy Username

That's what I figured, but

That's what I figured, but didn't know if the speed and clip size were good enough to warrant using it. I might get it one day for aesthetics :P.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 06:06

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

The Antigua series is

The Antigua series is probably the only gun that can keep up with the Royal Jelly's regeneration, due solely to its large magazine size and that the Royal Jelly doesn't actually resist Piercing.

...I am not making this up. It blew my mind.

(It's not really weak to Shadow either though, so the Sentenza doesn't suddenly gain more purpose than the Argent Peacemaker.)

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 07:04

Hexxy

Antiguas

Speaking in a single-target damage sense, antiguas (4*-5*) actually do more damage per relative clip size than 2-shot guns do. In most cases, 3 shots of an antigua tends to end up with 5-15 points more damage than if you fired 1 shot using a 2shot with appropriate weakness. 6 shots (all hitting) beats 2 shots by a lot. This holds across T2 and T3 but haven't really checked T1. Of course, this also means you need to have great aim and actually not miss your shots. Now, when we're talking multiple targets, alchemers win because of the splitting bullets.

There's nothing wrong with using antiguas anyway if you have a decent amount of skill with them. You will never do bad damage, you just won't do super massive damage like everyone wants. The big difference here is that you can keep a constant state of dps going while sword and bomb users have downtime while they dodge or shield around enemy attacks, which you don't have to do (so you end up doing more damage than them anyways).

It isn't difficult to hit dodgers with them either. Dodgers don't dodge the first shot. Gremlins and beasts have such a weak dodge it's not even worth mentioning. For wolvers you just wait until they yelp (you can force them to by shooting once or twice) and then spam them when they're down. T3 wolvers actually tend to warp INTO your shots, not sure if anyone has noticed but I find it hilarious. Devilites have a more difficult dodge, but you can still do one-shot-per-dodge and even cancel out their attacks. Remember, if an enemy is dodging or shielding, they're not attacking you. You don't have to spam it to annoy your team, but you can do it if people are getting ganged up on.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 07:33

Dynamod

Legacy Username

@ hexxon

thats precisely why I use the Antiquas series. it may not deal as much damage per shot, but it is by far the most reliable gun, the safest weapon you can possibly use. it's definitely a weapon for those who like to play it cool.

there is another reason why I prefer Antiquas series over magmum series... with the magmum you have to sit still to shoot! that's incredibly dangerous with some enemies, and the time you have to reload you're also open. so just to even use it properly you have to position yourself and take only "safe" shots. that actually significantly lowers it's dps.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 17:05

Master-Gunslinger

@hexxon With Max IAS I found

@hexxon
With Max IAS I found I could shoot 3 volleys of the Alchemer series in around the time it takes to shoot 2 volleys of the Antigua line, DPS =/= Damage Per Shot, more so Damage Per Second. Even with a 1 on 1 I find an alchemer to be more handy because of the status effects. Yes the gremlins and wolvers have gotten their dodges nerfed, and yes, the first shot of the gun will most likely hit, but you don't do nearly as much damage spamming the trigger than with carefully placed shots with smaller clip size guns. Keep in mind that even if you manage to track where the enemies dodge, they have invincibility frames while doing so. In T3 digging wolvers do tend to go right on front of you into your bullets, but that's when the strong shots come in handy since right after the first shot or two they are popping up somewhere else.

I don't feel that the antiguas have more skill involved simply because it's pretty much the only gun you can effectively spray with, which is what I see almost all the time when people "use the longer range to their advantage". I have mentioned that the uses of an antigua are situational, so when being surrounded by 10 mecha knights and 2 menders will put it's use out there, it's not enough reason for me to carry it all the time.

For the record my first 4* gun was the blackhawk, and my 5th 4* gun was the Silversix. I have tried to make them work, so don't make it seems like I'm just hating on them because I don't use them.

@Dynamod
Standing still to shoot with the Magnus is why most people do not fire both shots back to back, firing one shot then shielding is much safer than firing 5 shots with an antigua in many cases. Think of the Magnus as the heavy swords that are generally going to be safe if you know how to use the second hit and when not to.

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 17:26

Sunless

Ask another Master Gunslinger

Ask another Master Gunslinger Anything

How does it feel to be inferior to a Master Swordsman?

/schoolyard taunt

Tue, 06/28/2011 - 17:42

Master-Gunslinger

@ Replicant

(while this is most likely a joke) It feels nice to be a small spider than part of a centipede.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 06:09

#10

Tenkii

@ dodging/ also, magnus?

@Revolver
Enemies aren't invincible while dodging, as far as I've seen.

They do seem to have an offset hitbox though, so if you "lead", you'll deal damage to them. It's what I do on gremlins, anyway, since I know their dodge patterns lol.

Speaking of the Magnus line, I've been having a bunch of fun with Callahan. Do you think damage or attack speed is better for Callahan? I've been playing with IAS:Ultra due to fallen+swiftstrike, but most of the time, the main use I have for IAS is so I can shield and start moving earlier. But for enemies that it actually knocks down, I found it's more reliable to keep them juggled by delaying shot1's instead of doing double shots :/

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 08:42

#11

Rangerwillx

Should I upgrade my Cryotech

Should I upgrade my Cryotech Alchemer MK11? I was gonna get an Antiagua and turn it into a Argent Peacemaker for FSC, but perhaps the Cryo driver would be better? or both?

Thanks for the advice!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 13:31

#12

Linteleor

Needlers &c.

@Revolver

Why do you use a Callahan instead of a Blitz Needle?

Does your Callahan UV Low Gremlin actually perform better for sniping menders than your Umbra Driver?

@Tenlki

I've totally seen that offset hitbox thing. It pisses me off to no end.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:22

#13

Master-Gunslinger

@Tenlki, jp12365, jlwfnord.

@Tenlki
Wolvers definitely have invincibility frames, you can lead them and the bullet will explode (showing that it hit) but there will be no damage/numbers or anything. I haven't tried using an antigua after the patch, so maybe that was taken out, I'm gonna come back and edit this once I test it myself, but as far as I can remember, they do.

I would love an IAS Med Magnus, sometimes the little extra millisecond to shield comes in handy, but a VH vs Beast/Fiend is hard to pass up, more times than not that little bit of time doesn't really come in to play. If it's Med IAS vs Med beast/fiend, pick IAS.

@jp12365
Depends what you're using it most for, if you don't have a piercing gun for Vanaduke then it's a lot harder to deal with his last phases because of all the flaming orbs, but for zombies a Hail Driver is excellent for times where you just need to put a monster off to the side so you can grab totems or deal with other more important things. I wouldn't get both because that means you're only going to be using the AP for Vana, which isn't terrible but if I had the choice of a gun specifically for Vana it'd be a Magnus or maybe a Needle shot.

@jlwfnord
I use Callahan instead of a Blitz Needle for many reasons, mainly because Callahan can deal with Wolvers and many dodging enemies because of it knocking them down. When using a needle shot against fiends or wolvers, it's usually going to be the first 2 bullets hit then they are already behind you throwing chairs or nibbling on your ankles. Sometimes enemies will dodge into your line of fire, but it's not consistent enough to make me use it instead of Callahan.

The UV Low Gremlin was actually just from upgrading my no-uv Magnus, I didn't intentionally get it. But I do very like to use it to interrupt menders that are healing enemies, it makes it a lot easier. But If it's a gremlin themed area or arena then I'd use the Umbra since the ricochet will help out.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:06

#14

Malyce

Legacy Username

Have you ever been in a party

Have you ever been in a party with 4 gunners? I'm trying to figure out if it would be awesome or not that great.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:34

#15

Rageleader

Legacy Username

Can I ask a Sword Question?

Can I ask a Sword Question? If so:

Is the Fang of Vog just a trophy sword? Have any sword suggestions as an all around baddie slayer.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:52

#16

stock

Legacy Username

I've been in a party with

I've been in a party with another gunner and myself. We shot a lot of things and it worked out pretty well.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:43

#17

Master-Gunslinger

@Malyce & Rageleader

@Malyce
I have, it's probably the most fun I've had in the game when you can manage 4 people to stick next to eachother and try to stay as close as possible kiting in the same direction, more efficient than 4 swordies picking off guys on their own.

@Rageleader
I'm sorry I'm not the right guy to be asking sword questions.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:46

#18

ABlackGuy

Legacy Username

Surival

alot of gunslingers prefer pistols but I LOVE automatic guns. and since I cant run and gun you got any tips on how to last in a arena with a automatic gun?

(I'm usually the last guy alive when it comes down to it)

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:53

#19

stock

Legacy Username

Well you should run one other

Well you should run one other gun to start kiting and then when you manage to group them up use your automatic. You can't rely on it the whole time and really it would be the most difficult gun to use in an arena. Even harder to use if you have any gremlin healers in the center of those final packs.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:18

#20

Master-Gunslinger

@ABlackGuy

I find it a bit tricky to run with autos in arenas, you need enough space so that once the enemies reach you, you are finished shooting and can continue running or shielding, but you can't try to make too much space or the gun will either not reach them or some monsters may start cutting corners and intercepting you. Just make sure you keep them grouped up and they don't start hitting you while you are shooting, treating it like any other gun that you'd be using. Regardless of gun, you should always shield bump enemies that are infront of you, or way ahead of the pack you are grouping up so that you can keep the conga-line of pain going. It will be very difficult dealing with menders that sit inside spikes or in the middle of the stage, so at that point I would just focus on reviving your teammates to deal with them.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:03

#21

Tenkii

@Rev: The UV Low Gremlin was

@Rev:
The UV Low Gremlin was actually just from upgrading my no-uv Magnus, I didn't intentionally get it. But I do very like to use it to interrupt menders that are healing enemies, it makes it a lot easier. But If it's a gremlin themed area or arena then I'd use the Umbra since the ricochet will help out.
That's funny, the same exact thing happened to me :D

I am not a pure gunman (in fact, I normally carried around just the three main heavy swords - Khorovod and the Sealed Forks) but the Callahan won me over in its utility (sorry Khorovod ;_; ). Knocking things down, stopping/interrupting mobs, shutting up fiends- so fun :D

@ABlackGuy:
A swiftstrike might be of interest to you. Faster attack speed means you can get to shielding and moving quicker, too ;/
Shoot once, tap shield to cancel lag, move for like half a second, repeat. Same idea as slow swords, except you have more range.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 05:31

#22

crazy10101

Legacy Username

Just a question...well, two,

Just a question...well, two, actually.

1) Why does everyone seem to pick callahan > iron slug?

2) Is the Blaster line any good for a gunner, as a general purpose weapon?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 09:37

#23

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

You'd get the Magnus line to

You'd get the Magnus line to deal with auto-dodging enemies like Wolvers, Gremlins and Devilites. Of these three, two are weak to piercing and the other is neutral. That's probably why Callahan's more popular than Iron Slug.

The Blaster line is balanced but a bit weak and has an underwhelming charged shot. However, it deals Normal damage, which is a plus.

Still, if you're bringing a Callahan, you might want to think of carrying an alchemer instead of a Blaster- if you can put up with waiting until 4*, where it really starts to shine.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 09:17

#24

Necr0max

Legacy Username

If you only had 1 slot for a

If you only had 1 slot for a 4 or 5* alchemer, which would you choose in Tier 3? (Lord Vanaduke and non-Lord Vanaduke).

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 12:26

#25

Master-Gunslinger

@crazy10101 & Gigafreak

@crazy10101
People pick Callahan over the Iron Slug because it deals piercing damage, the "perfect" setup would be to have one weapon that deals elemental, one that deals shadow, and one for piercing. The only time I ever really would want a normal damaging weapon would be for Vanaduke's mask phase, which resists everything other than normal.

The blaster is an excellent line for all purpose, Valiance is the only gun with natural knockback (that is actually pretty useful at that) and the bullets speed up significantly at it's 5*.

@Gigafreak
Charge shots aren't why you pick guns, as many aren't quite good enough to use during actual battle. Being that most guns will have you walking at a snails pace while charging or will have you standing still for a very long time during the attack, and that the charge attack simply doesn't do enough damage compared to just firing normally.

Fri, 11/04/2011 - 01:37

#26

Master-Gunslinger

@Necr0max

Ahh, this is the big question that is really up for debate. So this section will be obviously opinionated but I'll give my best viewpoint on each one. You can check Fossa's breakdown of each as well. There isn't a "best alchemer" but some may fullfil a role that you may need it most.

Magma Driver: Good damage vs one monster, great support weapon. The reason why fire is so liked is because all it does is do constant damage, you don't need to change up your play style to deal with an enemy that's on fire, and it dies quicker. It's an obvious no for Firestorm Citadel, everything won't get lit on fire. You can light up oilers, but at this point I'm going to assume you are using a different weapon for fire themed strata and all jellies.

Hail Driver: Great damage vs separated monsters, situational support. This is Fossa's choice, being that it will do great damage to enemies that sit long enough to thaw, you can use it to freeze enemies that you don't want to deal with (make the gun puppy face away from your team and freeze it so it can't do anything) and put out lit oilers. This is my gun of choice for FSC, for one I got a vs Undead Med which combined with my Deadshot will be vs Undead Max. I find freezing enemies so you can do something else is extremely useful during these runs because there are times where you just need to leave a zombie by itself so you can take some totems away, or save a sprite. You will have to change up your play style to get the freeze working correctly though, your teammates need to avoid frozen enemies and you usually shouldn't fire both shots back-to-back so you break your own ice. I've heard complaints that hitting a frozen enemy, while thinking they'd be out of range to hit you from knockback, ends up hitting them because they only broke the ice. Also more times than not, I find that the ice gets broken before doing anything because of ricochet or just teammates attacking.

Storm Driver: Great damage vs grouped monsters, great support weapon. This may be the best gun to kite with being that clumped up enemies will shock eachother, meaning the more you shock the more ticks, resulting in more damage. The big reason I picked this is because it stacks with fire, or with ice. I have a shivermist so I don't have to worry about it removing the status effect, and my bomber teammates usually bring an ash of agni which stacks with shock. The shock does interrupt attacks and movement as well, so if you manage to keep firing on a gun puppy it will usually get interrupted long enough to get killed. Also keep in mind this is the only 5* weapon to deal shock currently. Sometimes I use it against Vana and it interrupts him, but to me it's not as useful as the Hail for FSC. Again you can shock quicksilvers, but you shouldn't be using that for shock themed strata or jellies.

Nova Driver: All purpose elemental alchemer. No bonuses and no weaknesses. You can use it for any strata and for any jelly. But to me, it's not worth it. *Edit: With the update Nova and Umbra Drivers alike gained a damage boost, if you don't care about status effects this is the gun for you.

Umbra Driver: This is more of the gun you get if you are going full gunslinger, it's the only gun that is pure shadow, so it's the only gun you can use to get that bonus damage to jellies. It doesn't have a status effect to it, but it does extra base damage compared to the status effect alchemers.
*Edit: Since the release of the Catalyser (Biohazard line) there are now two pure shadow guns!

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:20

#27

Captain-Teemo

I've been playing as a gunner

I've been playing as a gunner since I started, and have had some really disappointing times in SK. I used the blaster series and felt like the weakest link in every group I was in, I got excited when I picked up the silversix and blackhawk, but quickly realized just how crappy their damage was... I got some advice here and have moved to my new weapon assortment, callahan, volt driver, shadow driver, and bomb x (ice, fire, poison)...

At first it felt great, I could swap to whatever weakness a mob had and go at it. I'd see orange damage numbers (something you don't see on antigua guns) and finally could hit those pesky dodging wolvers and devilites... Then I see the damage output of my friends and I still feel my damage is very low... My buddy hits a fire skell in fsc harder with his faust than I do with my volt driver :\
(for those who don't know, those skels resist shadow (his element) and are weak to my driver (my element) and still his damage is significantly greater than mine)

So is there any purpose to being a gunner? Any area where I can shine where a da or gf wouldn't work? Because so far it seems like there really is no area where you're actually better off with a gun -_-

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 16:24

#28

Tenkii

Placement and positioning

- You are surrounded by gun puppies and you need to wait for spikes to go down
- Gun puppies are surrounded by spikes and you risk losing precious hp to hit them (Grim Gallery, some clockwork tunnel stages)
- The boss is surrounded by orbiting fireballs and you don't want to get hit.

>_>

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 20:59

#29

Captain-Teemo

- You are surrounded by gun

>_>

And to all of these, a divine avenger would do better... more damage, knock back, penetrating missiles...

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 21:26

#30

Master-Gunslinger

@Shosuko

Well, the reason why Alchemers do so much less damage than most swords is because they get the ability to give status effects from a range. Also I want to add that my friend does 240 with 1 DA attack, and I do 190 with 1 Hail shot that has a chance to freeze and ricochet, and I don't need to be anywhere near the zombies in FSC (also the rate of fire is nearly twice as fast as the DA, granted the DA can hit multiple zombies at once when they are clumped up).

You won't be able to charge the DA when you are surrounded by gun puppies or when fighting Vanaduke's final stages, and you will be standing still for a long time while doing the attack animation, leaving you open. Gunners, (along with bombers) have the ability to do constant damage while kiting, where as sword users need to stop kiting to hit, giving them a chance to take damage, then kite after the attack. This makes gunslingers not only safer, but in total you will do more DPS because of it.

Going the gunslinger path isn't for those with a love of DPS anyway, you're more of a support role to help out sword users without messing eachother up with knockback and having to compete for hits. Sure the armor is lackluster and you're not going to be killing things as fast as you like, but this balance issue isn't something we have control over right now, it's up to the developers to decide what roles we play with certain weapons or equipment. All we can do is voice our opinion.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 00:11

#31

gogaa

Legacy Username

Are you sure the Valiance

Are you sure the Valiance bullet speed/projectile speed increases at 5 star? I made a thread and asked whether the Antigua line of guns' bullet speed/projectile speed was faster or slower, and these guys replied that Antigua lines are faster than Valiance's bullet speed/projectile speed. They were also arguing that Magnus's bullet speed/projectile speed was slower/faster than Antogua lines. I am so confused!

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 01:30

#32

Master-Gunslinger

@gogaa

Yes I saw that thread, I'm sure they were thinking of a blaster instead of Valiance, as not very many people use Valiance in general. The bullet speeds of Callahan, Antiguas and Valiance are around the same. The blaster gains a huge jump in speed from 3* to 5* along with knockback. A lot of times the bullets are too quick to really measure correctly, but at that point it's pretty irrelevant. Don't worry about gun speed for 5* guns, even the Alchemers' bullets are fast enough to be used all the time at their 5*.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 05:17

#33

Algol-Sixty

I was one of the commentators

I was one of the commentators on the bullet speed thread. I agree that the mangus and antigua lines both have fast bullets, but there is a critical threshold, if the bullets are just slightly slower than what dodgers need to dodge, you will miss a lot, if the bullet speed is just fast enough to hit them before they dodge, then you have a win. In my experience, I hit dodgers a lot more with my callahan than my blackhawk.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 11:11

#34

Master-Gunslinger

@wrs1864

Actually there's a different reason for hitting dodgers with Callahan more than a Blackhawk, Callahan's bullets knock down wolvers and gremlins so that they can't dodge. Where as even if you hit the wolver with the Blackhawk, they will still dodge out of the way after the bullet hits them, meaning long strings of bullets will most likely miss. This doesn't have much to do with bullet speed, both bullets are fast enough to reach the wolver (from most distances) before they can dodge.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 07:02

#35

DumplingKing

Legacy Username

Complementary guns with swords

I know this has been answered by FossaFerox in the other thread, but I'd like your opinion on this.

What gun would you recommend to someone who is going to main with swords, however pull out a gun in dire needs?

I'm in this exact situation. I'm only in tier 2 and I'm working towards 3* items and I find myself needing a gun in those moments where you need to kite a mob of monsters while the rest of the team is dead, or there is a huge monster/boss that you don't even want to get near to (those big spikey fiery oils is a good example of what I face right now).

Would you recommend the Hail Driver/Callahan or perhaps even the Peacemaker? I just mainly need the gun in moments of despair so what do you think will serve me well even until high end tier mobs?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:54

#36

Master-Gunslinger

@DumplingKing

Well, you do have a lot of choices to go with, as it mostly depends on what you're needing the weapon most for. Almost all of my bomber teammates use a Storm Driver because the only time they can't kite with bombs is against gun puppies or in arenas, and kiting with the storm will be your best bet since the shocks is multiplicative between all the monsters clumped up.

However, if you have problems with Kats, the Hail driver is amazing at keeping some at bay while you deal with the ones attacking you. The Hail is great for those pesky oilers you are having issues with, and keeping gun puppies from turning toward you.

A sword using friend of mine uses the Valiance as his only gun, and I see how that is extremely beneficial. It does normal damage, meaning you won't have to worry about things resisting your shots, it has knockback that is actually strong enough to help you get out of tight situations and a three shot clip that allows you to move while reloading makes it excellent to use for kiting.

I don't recommend Callahan since most people would rather use a piercing sword to deal with beasts or most fiends, and the only time I would ever consider the Peacemaker is for Citadel.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:04

#37

Lortab

CTR Vs. ASI

I've recently made some UV alchemers that I'm pretty happy with. A CTR High Voltech and an ASI Very High Cryotech. I'm trying to decide which to use and which to sell (or if I should just use both).

The difference between High/Very High and freeze vs. shock isn't really what I care about so much as the usefullness of CTR vs. ASI in the Alchemer lines. I've heard some differing opinions and I'd like the input of a Master Gunslinger.

Does ASI affect reload time? Is fireing only one bullet and waiting a tick to shoot again the proper method, and if so is this sped up with ASI? Are charge moves used often with Alchemers?

Can you tell me which is better and why?

Thanks.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 12:54

#38

Master-Gunslinger

@lortab

ASI does not affect reload times, (I'm kinda hoping this will change in the gun balancing update) but it does speed up how fast you can shield after shooting one bullet. Still, I think the shoot-shield-shoot methods are for weapons without ASI, since the big benefit of that bonus is shooting faster (doing more DPS). Unless you've completely mastered the timing of that, you'd be pretty much at the same rate as without any ASI. But yes, firing one bullet and waiting does speed up with ASI, and that's what I use with the cryotech since I don't like breaking my own freeze.

I personally think that charges on the guns aren't good enough to be used during actual battle, you move too slow and the amount of damage you could have done while charging would be a lot more. That being said, the alchemers probably have the best gun charges, if you manage to shoot it in a tight group the damage is devastating. I've never used a CTR High gun, so I'm not sure how much faster the charge will be.

For me, I would pick the ASI VH Cryo, I don't often charge with guns while around enemies.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:37

#39

Lortab

thanks dude

Thanks for your input.

Appreciation all around.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 20:04

#40

Godzy

o_o

So i need to ask something
Which is a "good gun" against Vana? strictly Vanaduke-only gun, disregarding other monsters
Argent Peacemaker? Blitz Needle? Callahan?
o_o

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 01:49

#41

Master-Gunslinger

@thegodzi

Disregarding any other moster, I would say Callahan is your best bet. The Argent Peacemaker is nice for it's range and mobility, but does not gain the full damage bonus to him because of split type damage. Callahan also stuns him, which can help out your teammate that is kiting a lot. If you have a teammate that locks up Vana and all you are doing is standing behind him trying to do as much damage as possible, the Blitz Needle is a good choice.

Though if you are running around avoiding Vana and the collapsing ceiling, I would pick Callahan using the shoot-shield-shoot method.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 03:42

#42

Algol-Sixty

I personally think that

I personally think that charges on the guns aren't good enough to be used during actual battle

I use the charge attack on my storm driver to hit gun puppies. It isn't something you can really do when you have a horde of monsters around, but if you only have a few and can either hid behind blocks while charging or dance slowly around the gun puppy's bullets, you can do it.

Disregarding any other moster, I would say Callahan is your best bet.

Have you actually measured the DPS of the various guns? The Callahan is a slow gun when using the one shot-shield-move method, you can get a lot of hits in with an argent-line gun or an auto-gun line.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 04:58

#43

Godzy

o_o

@Revo, hmm alritey, Callahan for me i suppose
but uhh another thing, optimal UV on a Callahan?
since i haven't looked into Gun UV's, and a Callahan strictly for Vana, what should i get? ASI? CTR?
o_o

@wrs
Bltiz Needle made me think that too as well

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 06:32

#44

DumplingKing

Legacy Username

Optimal UV

While on the topic of optimal UV...I have decided to get a hail driver and I'm thinking of buying it with a good UV as well.

What UV would you prefer on the hail driver? Dmg bonus vs construct? I know you use bonus dmg on undead for your hail driver, but I'm using the hail driver in all circumstances, not just the FSC. I was thinking extra dmg against construct could be quite useful since hail driver works well on turrets.

Overall, do you think increased attack speed is the best UV for most guns?

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 16:28

#45

Master-Gunslinger

@wrs1864
Here's an example of why, in the time it takes to charge up an alchemer you could fire off 4-6 shots off at an enemy. The charge attack's main hit (in T2) will do around 170 damage, and each of the 4 smaller bullets will go off to the side hitting enemies if there are any there, though this is buggy as sometimes you can hit something with the charge and the smaller bullets won't go off to the side and it will hit the main target for crazy damage. Each shot of my Storm driver to a gun puppy (in T2 same area) will do 67 damage, 4x 67 is 268, and all of the shots have a chance to cause a status effect or hit enemies near by with a ricochet. So disregarding the ricochet variables the clear winner is regular fire because of status effects, and DPS. Maybe in a big cluster of enemies and you manage to hit inbetween all of them the charge is worth it, but keep in mind you can't shield while charging, and if you aren't helping the team while charging you're forcing your team to do more work.

I haven't tested the damage of magnus vs antigua, but I have tested alchemers vs antigua and against most enemies the alchemers will win because in the time it takes to fire 6 shots you can fire 3-4 shots of the alchemer, even in 1 vs 1 the alchemer wins (this isn't even bringing up ricochet or status effects). The antigua does have a huge range advantage, but it's not game changing. Like I said, the Blitz Needle will do much more damage, but you are left wide open for the time you are shooting, and you need to take as minimal hits as possible in T3.

@thegodzi
Optimal UV for a Callahan for Vanaduke specifically is attack speed. You aren't going to be charging, and you won't be killing undead with it, so there's really nothing else you would use the UV for. As for not Vanaduke specific a vs Beast or Fiend is also useable for those that shoot-shield-shoot.

@DumplingKing
a Hail driver vs Construct is a good choice, you will find gun puppies and lumbers in almost every strata, and it's a nice little boost to clean them up a bit faster.

I do think that IAS is the best for most guns, unless you have a gunslinger set and it's choosing between Med IAS or VH vs (whatever gun's strength like Callahan VH Beast) then I would get the VH.

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 20:37

#46

Algol-Sixty

Revolver, I think you

Revolver, I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I meant that, even during some battles, I will use a charge attack to take out one single gun puppy. Yes, the charging takes longer than constant firing, but it is a risk reduction thing. If you can hid behind a block or something, you can poke your head out, fire, and jump back. That is about the only time I use charged guns.

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 00:19

#47

Godzy

o_o

@Rev
Thanks for the tip! adding that gun and uv on my to-do list
o_o

Tue, 07/05/2011 - 17:58

#48

vabjekf

Legacy Username

Is ASI really worth it for

Is ASI really worth it for alchemers?

I have been trying to compare, i dont notice a difference in firing speed between bullets for a 2 shot burst, and only a VERY slight difference in the time it takes to shield after one shot.

It seems like a damage bonus would be far more useful. It also makes me wonder about the worth of the asi armor at all. Of course thereis always the hope that asi will increase reload speed some day, but untill them im having a hard time noticing anything between my asi alchemer and my non UVd one.

Is the difference between ASI very high and maximum a bigger jump than medium and very high? As i dont have nameless yet.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 00:03

#49

myrapod

Legacy Username

Wavering Gunner/Bomber

Hi I've been using a Mix of Swords/Bombs, & testing weapons at Tier 2.

What I've done recently.
1. Tried all the NORM Dmg swords, & find the only 2 useful ones are Striker line (which sucks by itself in slime infested areas 15,16) & Calibur.
2. Used Ascendant Calibur / Freezing Atomizer for Tier 2 (Which lets me solo most areas & arenas)
3. Tried a Shadowtech Alchemer MK II UV Contructs Low [Fun :D, but really is slow since its only 3* with little bounce)
4. Used 3* Fused Bomber Helm & 3* Dusker Coat for Tier 2.

What I've been thinking.
For Swords, I don't think IAS armour really does much since realistically, at most you get 1-2 hits off before running and/or shielding.
For Bombs, CTR is everything. But Puppies are bitches.
For Guns, IAS seems most popular.

My Conclusion = I love Bombs too much to give them up (the AOE power is godlike) & Guns seem fun :D.

Most people I bump into are Swordies, & it's really a mess with too many. I find I mostly use my Freezing Atomizer when Swordies are around.

And so, I have a bunch of questions based on my decision.

Q1. For Swords/Guns, I'd like to ask if IAS & Dmg Bonus work off % or Flat amounts?
Because if its % based, using IAS on a fast gun would make it faster comparatively. While Flat IAS on a slow gun would make it faster comparatively.

Q2. For NORM dmg guns, is Valiance, Iron Slug or Pepperbox better? (I'm hoping Iron Slug cuz its a cool big gun like the Callahan)

Q3. Is the Iron Slug "splash" significant? Do the monsters have to be within touching distance of each other, or is it a little bigger/smaller?

Q4. Should I keep a NORM Gun, or a NORM Sword, or just screw NORM altogether (if as 2-slot, 3-slot, 4-slot)?
[ For 2-slot, I'm thinking not all dmg type needs to be covered if you have 2 dmg types. Since if 1 of them is weak, the other will do un-resisted/norm-like dmg ]

Q5. Is Armour type (pierce, elemental, shadow) more important, or the Bonus it gives? [Should i cover all types, or just 1, or 2]

I'd like to keep at least 1 Bomb in my arsenal & 1 Gun. I'm still not sure which side I'm swinging to more yet.
(have Freezing Atomizer, working on Fiery Atomizer)

But if i had to keep a Sword, Calibur/Striker line seems best. Where Calibur seems to work better for Gunners, & Striker for Bombers (anti-puppy, JK).

For now, I think I'll be working on Upgrading my Fused to 4*, and finding some Gunner Armour.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 00:24

#50

myrapod

Legacy Username

Also

Also, nice job with this thread. I've read the other Master Gunner thread, & the Elite Bomber thread.

PS - I think Sealed/Troika line as a main sucks when used with Bombs only (although acceptable with a gun). I don't mind the slow speed in hitting monsters.
But Hitting a Dumb crystal or brush takes too damn long.

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