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Why OOO should implement "Community" Levels

17 replies [Last post]
Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:17
pwkalt3
Legacy Username

Sprial Knights is a great game, but there's just not enough content. By the time you reach tier 3, you've seen every level at least once, and most of them you have memorized to the point that you know that that button will open the gate, and going over to those treasure boxes will spawn monsters. What the game needs is more content, but with the SK team being really small, and mostly focused on creating brand-new content (boss floors, new creatures), how can we get the level diversity the game so desperately needs?

Community Levels

The idea is simple: OOO releases a level editor. It doesn't have to be anything fancy - it can simply be the tools OOO uses to make the game, regardless of how complex it is. OOO would put up a submissions page, much like TF2, where players can submit levels they've made using the editor. OOO would pick out exceptional levels to add to the game, giving their creators CE and some sort of cosmetic armor (This could be done a few ways. Either one single item, or multiple items (1-5 stars) each one slight different/more awesome, and you get them in order as you have your levels accepted).

The best part, is everyone wins. How so? Let me explain:

Why OOO Wins

Why this is great for OOO should be obvious: they get tons of content added to their game, and the only cost to them is the time it takes to polish up the editor and set up the submission system. This is significantly less work than actually making the content themselves, and it frees them up to focus on new enemies/environments, as the community will be mostly fleshing out content for existing environments.

Balance on these levels isn't even a problem because you just choose balanced levels to add to the game, or modify them slightly before accepting them. This especially true if you're just supplying players with your actual game tools, as opposed to some in-game system (like CoH) which would have to have all sorts of crazy restrictions to prevent abuse.

It's not even a gamble, as TF2 has proven that it works, and that it works exceptionally well, as the vast majority of new content added to TF2 nowadays is community-created. And despite valve only creating a small portion of the game's contents, they're still raking in the money on a 4 year old game.

Why the Community Level Makers Win

The community level makers get some CE and a cosmetic item each time one of their maps is accepted, in addition to seeing their work included in a game they play. This appeals to everyone - people who want some sort of special in-game status (the cosmetic armor), people who want something more like actual pay (the CE), and people who just like making stuff (the fact that it's in-game).

In addition, the CE serves as a reason for people to continue making stuff after their first few, and it only takes a few dedicated people to make implementing this sort of system worth it.

Why the Average Player Wins

They get more content than they would otherwise! Additionally, the community maker rewards don't confer any sort of in-game advantage, so they aren't really missing out on anything. And if they're the sort of person who's determined to play the game for free, they may eventually make some content in order to get the CE.

In summary: Minimal effort on the part of OOO, everyone wins!

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 10:09
#1
pwkalt3
Legacy Username
They could do this for other

They could do this for other things as well, such as equipment, but they'd probably have more success with community levels.

Wed, 07/20/2011 - 15:33
#2
Bluemen230
Legacy Username
Do it.

Do it.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 04:07
#3
Talscar
Legacy Username
Good!

I Think it is a good idea for if they want a tool to make more Things that are Wilder than normal!
Good idea pwkalt3!

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 04:14
#4
Duke_Nukem
Legacy Username
@Bluemen Ogres only roar when

@Bluemen
Ogres only roar when they're angry...

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 04:21
#5
Ecyrbb
Nicely done

I think it's an ok idea but the nice format you put it in shows your dedication witch deserves a thumbs up of it's own. Also I think that idea of making equipment would be really cool but Think it might be too hard.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 04:47
#6
Duke_Nukem
Legacy Username
Equipment would be nice. I

Equipment would be nice.
I would make an Elemental/Shadow gun for those that want to go all-gunner and have three slots (AP, Sentenza & and the Elemental/Shadow gun).

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 13:56
#7
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
That'd be cool. Of course,

That'd be cool. Of course, they'd have to make shure any one level didn't have too may crowns.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 16:11
#8
Glaice1982
Legacy Username
I think said levels will have

I think said levels will have to be screened/tested so they aren't unfair to lower or higher equipped knights.

Wed, 08/17/2011 - 19:12
#9
Black75
Legacy Username
This would probably need a

This would probably need a balancing algorithm, to keep the number of boxes and mobs within a certain limit so you don't get "Bob's Loot-O-Rama III" which gives 300% of a normal level's payout.

Maybe limit it to the single "rooms", which then in turn can show up in the randomized levels.

Thu, 08/18/2011 - 00:04
#10
Shidara
Legacy Username
Uh...

While I'd love to create my own levels, I don't think we should be rewarded with anything more than having our level featured in-game. If we got additional rewards you would find that every single player would try to make their own levels just to earn more CE and costume items.

- First of all, costume items are added through special purchase offers.
- Second, CE is purchase-only.

The moment Three Rings give us a way to spawn CE to the game for free, that's when the game is shutting down.

I like the idea of player-made levels, but like Black75 said there has to be restrictions not only for the reason he mentioned, but also so that the level becomes do-able. I would hate to run into a giant room that has three waves, and each wave spawns 10-15 Quicksilvers, 5-10 Voltrodes, 4-12 Sparkies and a lot of Shock-grates in Tier 3. Believe me, people would do things like that - me included.

Overall though, it's a decent idea. Just scratch away the CE and costume rewards and add some limitations to the program and maybe we'll see something like this in the future.

Thu, 08/18/2011 - 05:01
#11
Whistle
Legacy Username
He stated that the maps would

He stated that the maps would need to be approved.

This might be good work for the OOO interns.

Thu, 08/18/2011 - 10:59
#12
SmashBro
Legacy Username
Wow... that's a fantastic idea.

I absolutely love this idea. I would be one of the first downloading the editor, lol. Nice work with the formatting as well!

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 14:08
#13
evanct
Legacy Username
bump

bump

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 00:41
#14
The-Ancient-One's picture
The-Ancient-One
Thoughts.

On the notion of "loot levels"-
As many of the people have said, players (like companies) strive for profits, and will do ANYTHING to make them- including design levels off the premise of giving more loot. However, while you can't stop players from trying to do this, you COULD do one or more of the following:
-place levels in such a way that they make an average cr gain- bob's loot o rama III would dull down the chances of an arena or other high paying stage in the surrounding depths.
-cap the amount of enemys/length of the level on the editor in such a way that you couldn't give out too much cr.
-Forcibly balance the level compared to the surrounding levels via drop chances- a "custom level" would have a set amount of loot in it, and that amount of loot would always drop from it regardless of what enemys people put in them.

On the notion of costume armor being given-
This is a great idea, but only to an extent. The amount of effort people put into things is often dependent on the reason they are doing them. The front-line field recorder hat in TF2(http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Frontline_Field_Recorder), which is earned by getting 1000 views on a youtube video is a good example of this. I've seen videos about literally nothing out on youtube, just so that people can get a hat. This is great for them, but do we want a bunch of low effort, crap maps in the game JUST because someone wanted a piece of costume armor? Energy, as stated by others, is an even worse idea.

On the notion of OOO choosing which levels to add in-
OOO does not have the time to review every single level, decide whether its good or not, test it, and then put it in the game. The easiest way to select them, would be automated. An automated system, however, could only see certain statistics, and could not go through the level as a player, decide if it was fun, rate the amount of rewards/difficulty, or any of the things that go into choosing a good level. Deciding a way to get levels into the game would be harder than anything else as it is.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 09:58
#15
Duke_Nukem
Legacy Username
I went into a Bob's

I went into a Bob's Loot-a-llama III in an Egypt stratum.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 10:46
#16
Hyorinryu's picture
Hyorinryu
@Fehzor Couldn't people just

@Fehzor

Couldn't people just try doing the above average level over and over again? Like do level, go up, and repeat? Pretty sure a lot of people, myself included, do that already.

As for your argument about costume armor, that's not a great analogy because Valve shares loses little in that situation. It's not like each video like that harms Valve. The way people are talking about it here, I was under the impression that it would be more like the polycount contest, where people would submit things and OOO would filter out the crap, and choose from what's left.

While you may be right in that OOO does not have the time to review everything, to make up for that, maybe they would have these "polycount contests" once in a blue moon. Or maybe they can have players be the playtesters. Have some kind of "experimental stratum" that neither costs energy nor gives crowns or materials. It could encourage players to try it out buy giving out some sort of token on completion in exchange for a little feedback. Perhaps they can make it so that the token does not come on repeated completions, though, you can change your opinion on it. I know the idea isn't perfect, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:38
#17
The-Ancient-One's picture
The-Ancient-One
I thought about that, actuallly.

OOO also sells ce as gameplay, not just because it makes them crowns. If they let people play for crowns, it wouldn't work because that would essentially be adding in the levels for profitable gain. If they let people play for free and no crowns, they'd be giving up game time. The way to balance it would be tokens per level or something, so that people didn't get strangely large or small amounts of crowns. However, keep in mind that while it would work, it would still require OOO to see what people have written and thought about the levels- which is no different than them going through all of them.

Costume armor would have the same effect as the TF2 hat, but not the same consequences. If the map editor was harder to use, and required more thinking (like making models of TF2 items), then it would work better, but less people would be able to submit maps.

My point about how they could balance it out, is more of a there-is-always-a-fix-for-this kind of thing than a precisely what should happen one. People do repeat and farm on arenas, if they limited so that arenas were still the most profitable path, then there wouldn't be a problem with it.

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