I was hoping to standardize the damage tables in the wiki but there are several issues...
Would like some input/suggestion on how we should proceed.
Erm... Please provide the reasons & underlying rationale behind your suggestion.
1. Monsters that take extra / less damage than usual. (Most notably gremlin menders)
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Option 1: Include an extra section inside each table dedicated to each of these inconsiderate monsters. (see proto gun's page)
- Pros:
- Easier for other people to contribute. One look at the page & they will know that menders take extra damage & they will have to split up their values accordingly.
- With enough data, someone might find out that menders consistently take x% more damage & include this info in the mender's page.
- Cons:
- It will be a lot of work. Would take 2~3 runs (maybe more) thru each stratum to get all the necessary data.
- We might run into more of these inconsiderate bastards in future.
- We may have to redo some of the damage tables since we do not know whether or not they include menders.
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Option 2: Discard the data on the Main Page, but leave a record on the Talk Page. (see zapper's page for example)
- Pros:
- Cleaner, shorter table.
- Less work to be done. Only 1 run needed per stratum. Table can be considered "completed" w/o having ALL the damage values from menders.
- Flexible enough to be extended later on if we change our minds.
- Cons:
- New wiki editors who doesn't know enough about reading the talk page might decide to be "helpful" & add in the values into the table.
- While someone might eventually figure out exactly what % of extra damage menders take, its a bit harder to do so since the data is hidden & incomplete.
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Option 3: Include the data inside the min/max values in each stratum as & when we encounter them.
- Pros:
- Least work overall.
- No barrier to entry for new wiki editors. People can contribute as & when they encounter a new min/max value in a stratum.
- Cons:
- Data is somewhat inaccurate. We won't know whether the table is completed or up to date when there is a change.
- We won't be able to figure out whether there is a "pattern" to the extra damage.
*Note* Regarding option 3, the rationale behind it is that for most people, a few points of damage does not really make any difference. The important thing that they want to know is how the weapon perform relative to other weapons. Therefore, it should be given due consideration even though the idea of inaccurate data is kind of repulsive to us "OCD types".
2. Special Damage (Fire, Freeze & Shock), & how some monsters within same family seem to take different amounts of damage from them.
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Option 1: Ignore it altogether.
- Pros:
- Less work, less headaches.
- Cons:
- Less information available.
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Option 2: Add an extra row for the special damage, include the min/max values inside. (see Cryotech Alchemer's page)
- Pros:
- Cleaner. A LOT cleaner. I don't even want to contemplate having 1 separate section for each monster in the damage table.
- Less work than option 3.
- Cons:
- Kind of inaccurate. Won't know whether values are "completed."
- Large range between min/max values for weapons that does normal damage but inflict status.
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Option 3: Do not include the special damage in the weapon's page but create a new damage table with a section for each monster in the status' page.
- Pros:
- Consolidation. Special damage seem to be affected by "grade" (weak, moderate, strong) rather than weapon anyway.
- Work is divided. Sword/Bomb/Gun users can all contribute to the damage table in the status page as long as their weapon inflict that status.
- Cons:
- A lot of work. (Although I won't be the one doing it)
- Users have to navigate extra pages to get the "Real" damage done by status inflicting weapons.
3. Decreasing damage values in a stratum. How should we express them?
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Stun gun's charge attack does 19 dmg in Depth 1, 21 dmg in Depth 2, and 20 dmg in Depth 3.
Should we express the values as "19 - 20" or "19 - 21" in stratum 1? -
Its basic attack does 11 dmg in Depth 4, 10 dmg in Depth 5, and 10 dmg in Depth 6.
Should we express the values as "11 - 10" or "10 - 11" in stratum 2?
Your thoughts?
Issue 1: Menders
I like Option 1. It is easy to understand, it will add an additional section to the tables but I think it will be informative for people who are looking for mender sniping weapons.
Issue 2: Status Damage
The data needs to be in the wiki somehow, but what would satisfy people's need for knowledge while not being too complicated?
Shock is super simple since it does pure elemental damage rather than a special status damage to monsters. Option 2 works perfectly for shock.
The other status types are more complicated. Freeze does 5 magnitudes of damage to monsters depending on the specific monster, not just the family. (Freeze might actually be 6 values, need more data to know for sure.) Fire has 6 values. Option 2 would be most complete but it will be a giant table. Might be the only option though.
Option 3 won't really work well, the descriptors "weak", "moderate", etc. are arbitrary. "Weak fire" on one weapon doesn't equal "weak fire" on another.
Another annoying tidbit about status damage is their star nerfing... Ash of Agni shares status damage will all the bombs in the fiery vaporizor line, but only in the first tier. Lower star bombs are nerfed dramatically at different strata.
No idea what to do with Poison >_<
Possible solution:
One way to show this data is to just list the min/max damage at the beginning and end of each strata on the weapon page. Then on the monster pages we can indicate their relative resistance to a status. Like Zombies would have a negative fire resistance, whereas Kats would be very resistant. But they would share the same strong freeze resistance.
That way you know that Zombies should be set on fire, Kats not so much. And don't expect a ton of damage from freeze on either.
Issue 3: Decreasing damage
I really think it should stick to first/last in the strata rather than min/max. Specifically this shows when the weapon begins losing potency. Looking at Khorovod's hit 1 in the last three strata:
First/Last shows:
111-115 169-215 229-225
Min/Max shows:
111-115 169-215 225-229
First/Last shows that damage degrades after Depth 24 whereas Min/Max obfuscates this info. It is weird that the damage decreases after a point, it even looks like a typo. On the weapons where this happens I try to add a note in the damage description such as "Basic attack damage does not increase after Depth 24." to alleviate some of the confusion, also that is a very important aspect of the weapon when deciding what to use in the last strata.