I'm not saying that the new pvp mode isnt fun, and some of the new recipies are neat, but it's overall dissapointing. Let's face it, three rings got too many requests for a Pvp mode, so they threw in a buggy bomberman game. I was hoping for a real, item use, pvp mode: or at least one with some level of custimazation that was based on the same gameplay the depths have. I bought 20$ worth of CE becuase i respected the gamemakers and wanted to encourage them, but now that they are resorting to copying bomberman, they won't get an ounce of respect or money out of me.
Make a real Pvp arena three rings.
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 16:46
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 18:52
#2
Actually...
All of those upcoming "PVP" events may as well be just a copy of this "Bobmerman-style", only with different objectives (and they probably will).
So... Let's wait and see whether it'll be THAT much different or not ;)
Personaly, I am too a little dissapointed by this, but oh well. I will die through my way to something about 300 Krogmo crowns to buy the recipes I want and I'm done with this "PVP" :D
- - -
Real PVP could be nice, but I am 'frad it'd be also very unbalanced.
But hey, if players got some default 'pvp' equip at the beginning, it'd probably work (just like we get default bombs in this bomberman thingy, we could get default sword, shield, armor and helmet in the normal PVP)...
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 19:00
#3
in my opinion
this is NOT the pvp all the people were thinking of...
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Pvp = Super Brawl
this is, and it would probably be there in the future...
this is a special feature of the game to..
1. serve as a minigame
2. serve as another crown sink
3. serve as a change of scenery in an already familiar game...
4. serve as a new way to make items
so again someone retorts by saying im a mole sent to protect OOO's face... NO
its just that i appreciate this new feature...
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 20:46
#4
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
So there's gonna be real PvP!? OMG TY SO MUCH FOR TELLING ME AKOSIJABO!!!! ME AND MY BUDDY HAVE BEEN WANTING THIS FOR AGES AND NOW I CAN PLAY IN ANTICIPATION! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cantwaitcantwaitcantwaicantwait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 20:54
#5
valk... they removed that a
valk... they removed that a while ago its unknown if it WILL return
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 21:32
#6
Why do you want combat PvP so
Why do you want combat PvP so badly? Spiral Knights combat isn't really dynamic enough to entertain such an idea.
Besides the fact it would be unbalanced to hell (unless, as aforementioned, everyone is given the same gear), there will be major lag compensation. Think it is annoying when a monster hits you even though you SWEAR you had your shield up? Imagine it with an enemy that attacks dynamically, rather than on a set pattern of when you are in their line of sight.
But this biggest thing is... Well, what is Spiral Knights combat? Swords? Click, click, shield cancel, repeat. Guns? Click, click (click, [click, {click, click}]), shield cancel, depending on the magazine size. Bombs? Click-hold, drop, shield and run away. With autoaim, this system would be even more boring.
Am I saying Spiral Knights combat is boring? Not really. What I am saying is that it is too stiff to support the idea of dynamic combat between two extremely different variables - two different human players.
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 22:29
#7
Der...
Duh, I read the linked page. I know it was removed. Apparently devs are working on improving it, so it might not even come out.
I can still be excited for if it ever does, can't I?
Besides, if they've already written the idea off, that link wouldn't still be there.
Ryoga, I want to play PvP cuz it gives me opponents who have brains to use. Sometimes I get sick of fighting mindless creatures with one attack patter and several attacks.
With PvP, your players will have to attack, block, run etc, making each player actually think about their fighting style and improve combat effectiveness.
If they had obstacles, it would make this harder too.
Plus it'll be cool to see who can pwn each other.
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 22:36
#8
since when do players
since when do players actually think? i have yet to see this in large enough quantities in the clockworks
that pvp is pretty much one dimensional it would boil down to who as better equipment the only way to make it work is to have a set of arena equipment balanced especially for PVP or else its vog cub, grey owlite, gran faust, levi blade
that aside the other issue is with UVs it wouldnt be fair to players who either dont have them or UV of sufficient strength
Wed, 08/03/2011 - 22:59
#9
I think...
I think when I fight. Thats how I lost to JK. I was trying to survive instead of epic raging at him. I range and power attack with my gun and calibur when low on HP or being swarmed.
Yeah, equipment will have to be toned down like they do in Tiers. Perhaps make several different categories with equipment restrictions like the Tiers and Higher equipment is depowered in the lower categories? SO ppl won't have to use a default set where you look almost the same.
Most UV are Vs monster type, but there ARE some that could affect player play. Need to find a solution for that...
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 00:27
#10
ASI and CTR would greatly
ASI and CTR would greatly [screw] up balance. As far as armour... Well, anything would mess up balance. If you allow personal armour or weapons AT ALL things won't work well. In low tiers, maybe, when only certain items under certain levels are allowed, but in higher tiers, absolutely not.
That being said, you can't rely on the Spiral Knights community to think. The majority of people in Blast Network just spam and kill their team mates, proving that the SK community can't handle friendly fire or anything that involves strategising anything past "What gear should I take?" No offence meant directly at any one person; I am only speaking of my experience when playing with pubs.
If you go into a PvP situation, custom weapons/armour or not, I promise you, there won't be thinking going on. Maybe you will (try), but in the end, the majority of it will just be spamming attacks or doing the same thing you do to monsters: attack and shield cancel. Think about it - if you were being attacked, and had your shield up, what are you gonna do? In Spiral Knights, as of now, there is nothing you CAN do. You have to sit there and take it, hoping your shield withstands the volley or you have to drop your shield and use the moment of blinking invincibility (at the cost of health) to send a combo right back at them.
Swordsmen will end a game if they sneak up on you. Gunslingers will just play keep-away. Bombers will just sabotage the whole screen.
Spiral Knights combat doesn't encourage thinking. It encourages acting on reflexes. This isn't a bad thing when fighting monsters; it makes for a decently paced fighting style for the top-down adventure. But against a dynamic opponent, it becomes too much guess work.
PvP works in first-person shooters because there aren't shields or (ideally) massively overpowered weapon sets. Even CPUs behave dynamically with AI, rather than the preset patterns of enemies in a Java-based game.
PvP works in fighting games because you can see your opponent's health, you can block their attacks but still do things to get through a guard (grabbing or shield-breaking combo moves; look at Taskmaster for anyone who plays MvC3), being hit doesn't make you invincible so you can lay out your own combo.
PvP works in major MMORPGs because fighting is MUCH more dynamic due to many different tools at one's disposal, ranging from status attacks from far away, on-the-spot upgrade buff items, and a lack of shields. That all being said, I don't have much experience with major MMORPGs.
But in the world of Spiral Knights, combat isn't dynamic enough for PvP, not even between two human competitors. The combat is too basic. Hell, Runescape has better PvP potential.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 00:56
#11
Wow, you really thought this out haven't you?
Though I'm sure with a few extra adjustments, it could work. Perhaps the bombs have a limited time use? Use one and can't place for a few more secs or something? As for shields, lets say that a successful block has a attack interruption effect, so a swordsman would recoil and be open momentarily if successfully blocked. Maybe bullet reflection off shields would deter gunners? Though the shields still wouldn't be invincible.
I dunno. Too many additions and changes in the gameplay style could screw up people's way of playing.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 01:04
#12
Causing a swordsman to get
Causing a swordsman to get stunned (I don't mean status, but action-wise) isn't a bad idea on paper. But in practise, it would be too easy. Ever play Assassin's Creed? Combat is no fun in that game if you just stand there and counter any attack the opponent throws at you.
Ricochetting bullets would make gunners useless.
The idea of adding a cool-down on bombs just adds more penalty to the already diminished speed of the style (when against others) already.
Too many changes would be needs to make this work. So much that it would dilute the Spiral Knights feel.
Not to mention it would require massive amounts of coding, which I don't imagine Three Rings would be happy to do, especially if making a system that people will always want changes to.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 05:28
#13
@monkeyman135
First comment, first reply.
I'd first like to say that this wasnt supposed to sound like an idle threat. It is both a plea and a critique, I threw that end part in as a bonus. Noctulle makes a good point, and something I already predicted, that they will all be bomberman style games. Lockdown will probabaly be a copy of that game where you push the block around a bomberman grid, and if anyone get's sealed off ocmpletely, they die. Or not, but still; a valid point.
But as for "geez OOO simply can not win with u people.... " you seemed to have got me. That's really becuase I havent said any of the good things. For example, the new 5 star torkia, and the new trinket alcemy machine. Both new, and only one is laced in with the bomberman copy. I can appreciate that.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 05:41
#14
@Ryoga124
I want it to at least SEE if it's fun. If it came out, sucked, then was removed, I'd be happy enough. I just fell like I missed an oppourtunity when I didn't play the beta. On top of this, allot of other people also want it, including super-brawlers. And they you claim that it wouldn't be balanced, but I think it would, by teir or star level. damage bonuses V monster could be added blank damage (monster weakness) to your weapon. Or you could remove UV's completely. If you wanted it to be more well rounded, you could propose that people only use a PvP only armor type, with normal defense, and weapons that deal only normal, mabey a status, with moveset's simmilar to basic weapons. It might not work, but you can't argue that it isnt worth a shot. If it failed, it would at least stop us from asking them for it.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 05:46
#15
@ noctulle
I realized that my last post copied of your ideas just now. Oops, thought that the last part of your post was a signnurature, since you placed a ------------ thing. I saw the last part as I was scrolling back up.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 14:11
#16
Okay, the problem for me
Okay, the problem for me isn't so much the balance at this point. It is the boring fighting mechanics. When fighting a monster, it tests your reflexes, as aforementioned. But when against another play, it is too much of a guessing game. Not to mention, latency issues will absolutely ruin any hopes of smooth combat.
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 14:37
#17
@ Ryoga124: And what is this
@ Ryoga124:
And what is this bomberman pvp-wannabe? Click (to place bomb), run, hide, click, run, hide, click...
Yeah, much more dynamic than "click click shield click" :D :D
@ DrLequack:
Ah :D Nope, that was not a "signature". It was an edit and I wanted to separate it from the rest of the post :D
@ almost everyone:
you may want to read the suggestions made so you wouldn't know I have a possible solution to this "unbalanced" issue.
Either we could get some kind of a "deafult" pvp gear at the beginning of each match,
or they can add another gear, that would be created for the PVP purposes (= more balanced, without UVs etc.).
Thu, 08/04/2011 - 15:24
#18
I didn't say Bomberman was
I didn't say Bomberman was more dynamic. But then again, it isn't true PvP. It is just a Bomberman remake. (Bomberman is a real game, FYI [it seems many people think "Bomberman" is just what everyone is calling it, rather than making a reference to the game]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomberman and it is played very similarly to Blast Network).
You trying to debunk Blast Network doesn't aid your argument; at least not in the way you tried. You only make combat PvP seem even more stale.
Sat, 08/06/2011 - 08:13
#19
I'm still thoruoghly
I'm still thoruoghly dissapointed in the new pvp they came out with. Ussualy when I see noobs complaining that they want CE removed, or that they think three rings is in it for the money, my ussual response is "no they arent, they are making new things to put into tha game as we speek", but they've proven me wrong, and as opposed to making something new, they just pooped in a bomberman minigame. I fell like this intire game is turning into a minigame for me. I log on allot less than ussual, and i ussaly play Quake live now (a very fun game). It's becoming completely secondary. I can't defend three rings anymore, but I don't wanna be on the side of what monkeyman refers to as "you people". The whiney, complaining people who run around saying "blah blah blah nerf feinds blah blah blah". It mkes me look lie I'm acting like a child, when they are. They're only eating half their carrots so to speak.
Not that I don't like bomberman, Ive sold 4 mod calibrators, and i have a goldenbombhead with a demo suit, really I'm just mad that theyve made a very good game but made very bad progress. They only listen partialy to what people say. It has been asked may times "Can we have PVP with customizeable weapons?" and they cut out the end and tell us "there- it's PVP, good enough, go play".
Sat, 08/06/2011 - 08:15
#20
I also should add that they
I also should add that they did not fix the AFK people, like they said they did >_>.
Sat, 08/06/2011 - 13:22
#21
@OP: If you were there during
@OP: If you were there during the preview, there was a Super Brawl feature which was pretty much what you wanted: basicly players fighting each other with normal weapons with enemies thrown into the mix.
I think if thats not gonna be Lockdown, then Im quite sure its coming back soon, just needs alot of fixing cos it does give players with certain weapon preferences a massive advantage ^^
Sat, 08/06/2011 - 16:28
#22
It certialnly wont be
It certialnly wont be lockdown. I picture lockdown like this: http://www.downloadgamesfree.biz/?game=box-pusher
but multiplayer VS or somehting.
Super brawl sounds fun, having monsters and enemy players never occoured to me, other than blast cubes. But there were problems like 1 hit Ko's that I'm not gonna ignore. Needs weapos dealing less damage, normal only, and no status effects, other than possibly stun. All sortsa good changes. and that's three rings problem, they i dentify what is wrong, but they don't try to fix it. they just throw it out.
geez OOO simply can not win with u people....
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/19009
what part of "and the first of many events, Blast Network, is available to play" don't you comprehend?
your idle threats considering your wallet only makes you lose credibility