so I just won a cool Autogun with both Low CTR and LOW ASI which is pretty awesome i think! and I can't decide which to go for .. the poison Plague needle or the Blitz needle ... both do piercing dmg .
I have zero poison weps so far so I am leaning towards the plague needle but .. if it's the situation where I still get more dmg not bothering with poison then maybe I should just go the normal route?!
help would be appreciated! :D
Someone need to make a Plague Needle and get us damage values for it so we can make an accurate comparison. If the difference in dps between the two isn't massive then Plague may well be better in group situations due to the poison effect, although if it a substantial bonus then odds are Blitz will remain superior simply on account of being more efficent against non-boss enemies and not requiring party support to deal reasonable damage. Blitz will of course also be superior whilst soloing no doubt.
if its the same kind of attack, plague should be better overall
the dmg difference cant be very big and the poison can be useful
needle weapons themselves are rarely useful for pure dmg and easily replacable
I'm currently making a Plague Stinger, I have the 4* version at the moment but need about 90 more coins. I'll give you damage values when I have it.
"needle weapons themselves are rarely useful for pure dmg and easily replacable"
To the noob that made this comment let me clarify -
My Blitz does well over 1500 damg per clip in t3, and does especially well against Vana.
Guns do better dps PERIOD, you take most people in VOG gear and Using Divine Avenger they run around swinging twice every 10 seconds.
Where as a real geared Gunner, Can constantly fire no matter if the Mob is in the screen or not, And out dps any sword player, as well as staying alive better to begin with.
Myself I prefer Shadow catalyzer over plague needle, Both cause mod poison, But I have shadow/poison for slimes JK runs, and Blitz for Pure damg.
My polaris does 300+ damg to mass mobs at once, In T3, with knockback,
My gear is Shadowsun/swiftstrike with max fire resist/ Medium gun damg trinket/ medium gun speed trinket/
Blitz needle/fiery pepperbox/polaris/silersix,
Note I regret getting the antiqua line its damg sucks compared to others, Go with pulsar line for elemental
So anyway I empty 12-15 shots each doing 100-200 damg, But i digress, Big swords can be usefull in staying alive in tight area's
But to the idiots that compare pure damg for gun/sword, the sword may hit harder, but the gun will out dps every sword in game
Hah, hopefully for balance sake they made the poison variants do.. let's say at least 15% less damage than the regular needle shot series, otherwise I can't see anyone really using the regular non-poisonous series at all now.
Theoretically though, looking at any two weapons that are similar but differ in a poisonous vs. non-poisonous version.. if the amount of damage it deals AFTER the poison kicks in is MORE than what the standard version does, then the poisonous weapon will be better for long fights (IE bosses, minibosses, just generally really tough enemies) whereas the one with more base damage will be better for quicker fights. This probably also would apply to, say.. fire weapons.
Apart from that, though, poison weapons in general are also nice because even if you encounter the enemies it does reduced damage against, as long as they aren't poison themed enemies you could attack them JUST to poison them to make them easier for your teammates to kill or even for yourself to kill with a different weapon.
... ... And the entire autogun series, all three upgrade paths in it, are just brutal when you get a really good hit in with their charge attacks. Just don't get counter-attacked in the attempt! :)
i should add that my other weps include:
polaris
umbra driver
fearless rigadoon
divine avenger
shiver
ash
It doesnt really matter. The Blitz Needle deals ø36.667% more damage than the Plague Needle, but the Plague Needle can inflict poison wich increases the taken damage by 10% and decreases the dealing damage by 50% of affected mob. Also the can't be healed and will take minor damage if healed. But the question is: How often will it inflict poison? Do have all 6 shots a chance of inflicting it? Or just a clip? Does it just last 5, 10 seconds?
I prefer Blitz Needle, it just can oneshot the Trojans and thats very important in my option. 37% damage penalty is much. The Plague deals same damage as the Pepperbox.
Against Vana, my level 8 Plague Needle is doing 84 damage per bullet from the charge attack. No UVs or any other damage increasing sources.
Edit:
Sorry that is 84 damage while poisoned. So the damage increase from poison is active.
hey GeminiDreams are you happy with your plague needle or would you prefer the blitz.
it sounds like the blitz needle does a lot more dmg to me.. i'm having trouble deciding which route to go.
Ok, THIS explains everything. Plague Needle is ***** and deals lv8 76 damage to Vanaduke. (76+10%=84) So i guess even if you say lv 10 it will deal 84 witout poison ... I was yesterday at Vana, and with my **** (!) Strike Needle i deal 104 damage. With one more star i will sure come to 120-130.
But take in Mind: a poisoned Vanaduke will get 10% more damage from swords too. Also he will not be able to break your shield, because he has a penalty of 50% at his attack power, aslong he works like other mobs at least.
I really think it doesn't matter. The Plague is more team oriented, while the Blitz Needle allways works. It's just very important that the Plague does inflict poison. It should be at least at every 2nd clip :s
Just to, it is incredibly unlikely for a target not to get poisoned after receiving a full charge attack from my Plague Needle.
very good post Xyonon you helped a lot
and also thanks again Gemminidreams for the replies!
Just to, it is incredibly unlikely for a target to not get killed outright after receiving a full charge attack from my Blitz Needle.
Myself I prefer Shadow catalyzer over plague needle,...
derp.
For the sake of completeness. With my now level 10 Plague Needle I'm doing 100 damage to Vanaduke while he is poisoned.
Autogun isn't the brightest choice of doing Tier 1/2/3 runs. First off, you have no mobility with it, so you'll have to do some sharpshooting if you want to kill some things. Second, it only fires two rounds of bullets, whereas unlike the Firotech Alchemer Mk II, 1 clip (two shots) can destroy any Construct, as Fire is extremely good against Retrodes, Lumbers, Gun Puppies and Scuttlebots. (Just put in Firotech Alchemer Mk II on the SK Wiki. It'll show how much dmg it does in a stratum.) 3rd, it doesn't have anything like ''Fair/Good chance of causing moderate/strong ______!''. Firotech Alchemer Mk II has a good chance of causing strong FIRE, and it doesn't require a charged attack. I rather prefer the Firotech line over the Autogun line, hands down.
does the needle series do more damage than the pepperbox? i'd figure people would be using it since it's more verstile even if it can't set fsc zombies on fire
An Alchemer will always ricochet one it hits 3*.
get Blitz Needle.
1. golden bullets
2. more damage
3. just get venom veiler or dread venom striker for poison. poison cant even hurt you but you cant heal and do less damage
I really am being crazy indecisive about which to pick .. as I still haven't decided.
I think what bugs me is that if my party really does die less during vana runs because he is poisoned then maybe it really would be better to go that way..
another issue is.. I will need another 150 tokens for the 5 star too..
If you can play marginally well in pvp, recipes from krogmo coins are cheaper to obtain than regular recipes. I worked out once an average spread of wins and losses comes to about 3k cr spent per 50 coins, bringing the total cost of a 5* item to 300 coins; 18k cr, whereas the sum of the recipes for a 5* item from 3* is 4+10+25 = 39k. If you win with any consistency greater than 1 win and 1 2nd place per 8 games, that cost goes down.
In my case I gained 30k cr when I was getting the recipe for Triglav, which combined with not spending 39k on the recipes paid for almost all of the crafting bill. Only reason I don't regret it, really, considering how bad Triglav is... but I wanted it for looks, so whatever.
Really, the only issue with pvp coins is putting in the time to get them, which can still be lower than finding the recipes for 3* through to 5* for a normal line, if you're incredibly unlucky.
Oh, also, you're saying you haven't made the choice yet - remember that you need to spend 50+100+150 tokens to get all the recipes to go to 5*. Not just 150 (unless you're saying you have 150 now, in which case ignore this :P)
Edit: In case it'll help sway you in either direction, I doubt (though can't prove) that poison will affect the damage caused by the fire status effect inflicted by vanaduke or anything else in the run, though it will reduce the damage of the attacks that cause it. Considering how easily Vanaduke sets people on fire, it won't half his damage so much as roughly quarter it. If I'm right about the fire not being affected by poison, anyways.
Blitz Needle deals more range than Pepperbox and Plague Needle. Blitz Needle and Plague Needle have more Range than Pepperbox. Pepperbox deals same damage than Plague Needle. Blitz Needle deals more than 50% more damage, WTF DO YOU WANT!?
So the only reason you'd really get a Blitz Needle over, say, the Callahan, is for FSC vs Trojans and Vanaduke himself. And for that, the Blitz is better in the way I tend to run Vanaduke. Basically, we have 1 permashiver, 2 mob clearer/waterboys, and 1 DPS. It's a slow but sure way to kill Vana safely. And in that situation, since there's only one person damaging Vanduke at any time, the Blitz Needle is superior. In another thread, I think the numbers came out to the fact that you had to Make up for about 600 DPS lost from the Plague for it to even break even, and that's a lot your party has to do.
wow?! news to me if the Blitz needle has more range then the plague needle
They have the same range. I said the both got higher range than the Pepperbox ;)
The Blitz Needle and Plague Needle are pretty much just like the Leviathan Blade and Cold Iron Vanquisher. The Leviathan and Blitz deal more damage, but the Plague and CIV could possibly or rarely deal even more damage. So think about this: would you want to get either the Cold Iron Vanquisher, or the Leviathan Blade? If you want the CIV, get the Plaque needle. You'd like that one more. If you want Leviathan Blade, get Blitz.
Why necro a 3 month old thread ?? I guess the OP had is answer a looonnnnnggg time ago.
Yeah sure, the pepperbox may seem like a pointless gun for a pure gunner. It deals pure normal damage, deals significantly less damage then its strike/blitz needle counterpart and is useless on a vana run. That is beside the point. The pepperbox charge attack is its key feature. It acts like a normal autogun charge, BUT it draws in enemies to get hit by more bullets then usual. This can devistate groups of enemies, as you can draw them into bombs/swords etc as well as the fire potentail. This gun works great on devilites as well, as 1 charge bullet knocks them over and draws them in to get smashed. Finally, sure the range is less, making it harder to hit turrets etc. but why use an inaccurate autogun on a turret anyway, unless you're point blank hitting it. IMO the pepperbox is a very underused gun.
Plague Needle increases the dps of your entire party, and reduces damage they take.
Blitz merely does more damage.
Basically, Plague is better in party situations and Blitz is somewhat better in solo situations.