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Tips for using Radiant Sunshards?

16 Antworten [Letzter Beitrag]
Ryoga124
Legacy Username

Yes, I've read the bombing guide on the wiki. I was hoping for some more direct help.
Now, I recently crafted myself some shiny little shards. I got a UV of VHigh Undead, which, coupled with my Radiant Silvermail, gives me a MAX Undead bonus.
Now, otherwise, I carry a DBB around. And I've learned how to use it properly, especially not being a bomber and having no bombing gear outside of a CTR Trinket.
However, the Rads isn't so much a bomb but rather a gun that shoots in 8 directions. But the farther the targets are and the more dispersed, the less likely you are (or rather, I am) to hit something.

So, being sure there are a number of bombers here, I ask for advice. Is there a trick to this?

Bild des Benutzers Bigfootm
Bigfootm
In FSC, you can almost spam

In FSC, you can almost spam plant this bomb. Anywhere else at that matter but, solution- Psam plant in FSC unless Trojan.

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Fallout
^^ lies. spamming isn't

^^
lies. spamming isn't always great.

Since the gunpuppy buff their usefulness degraded a fair bit....
however, the main idea with rads is to strafe and assume where your enemy will step next. You need to be willing to get close to your friends and understand how enemies act. E.G. strafe while a skelly is following and place when he starts charging or when he goes to do a slash attack. Really, radiants tricks aren't something to be explained with words, check the videos of eeks using Rads, or find someone who already uses it alot, and see how they do it. the ice vaporizer really helps when your learning how to use it, and how its best to use it. ;)

BiggestLoser
Legacy Username
Zelda

1.1(free space - suicidal)
i agree to fallout with assuming enemy locations after detonation

2(party members around/low health)
spamming is pretty ok as u constantly deal dmg and on top of that with ease(especially useful when u hav to run, ull hav a gun with farrr reach and without movement penalty, however a lower overall dps)

1.2(free space - suicidal)
to me the sun shards r complementary with the graviton vortex, the combo is hard to pull off, but if u survive ull hav 1 of the strongest weapon combination ingame and a good dodging practice(besides the shards seem to have a little AoE making this combination powerful and actually worth it, note i mean to place the sun shards in the center of the vortex)

if ur good with gun puppies, u can also reach puppies without having them reach u or suspend single or multiple puppies by placing bombs quckly

Morryn
Sun shards by themselves are

Sun shards by themselves are a little bit tricky to use. Yes, you can get by just spamming them, but there's other things you can do to make them more effective.

1. Sun shards > any enemy that charges. Skellies, greavers, even trojans. The closer the enemy is to the explosion, the more shards will hit, and if you position it correctly it will one-shot these guys. What you do is lay the shards down, back up a little bit, and shield. When the mob charges (or leaps), it will hit the shield and bounce back into the shards. The numbers might not appear all at once, but it will probably one-shot the mob if you do it correctly. For trojans, you have to back up a bit, but I've gotten 4 shards to hit before (~1000 damage on t3).

2. Shield cancel after sun shards (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-lhP9q2B3A for demonstration). No other bomb requires it more. It doesn't have any pushback, you have to get close, and there's no hope of a status limiting movement. Bind shield to your left mouse button, and then press both buttons when you charge shards. I can't tell you how many times this has saved me from dying in either fiend stratums or t3. I'm not sure it takes off any recovery time, but that instant shield is very useful.

3. Shivermist is the best (safe) bomb to compliment it (because you'll be able to line up shots easily), graviton the best (risky) bomb. I would recommend, if you're using graviton, that you apply some sort of status on top to be safer. I often do graviton --> glacius (charged attack) and then approach with sun shards.

Times to spam sun shards:
-FSC
-Fiend Stratums (Kats are hard to pin down, might as well spam)
-Sniping gun puppies
-Some arenas

Times to try and maximize damage with sun shards:
-Enemies that charge
-Enemies with limited movement (shivermist/graviton)
-Enemies close together

Ryoga124
Legacy Username
Like I said, I MOSTLY made if

Like I said, I MOSTLY made if for FSC.
Instead of a Graviton, what about an Electron? Being that it does elemental, and will stack some damage onto the zombies while it has them sucked in.

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Eeks
You're kind of boned man.

You're kind of boned man. The RSS is a good bomb in very specific situations but FSC isn't really one of them.

You can try comboing it with a Graviton/Electron Vortex (drop vortex, drop RSS right in the middle and run) but it's super risky since the timing is very tight. If you're not wearing bomber armor you're not going to be able to pull it off; you need max CTR on the RSS.

Alternatively you can just drop it in crowded situations but even with max damage bonus, the DPS is going to be low if you only hit things with a single shard. That's just what it comes down to with the RSS. 1 shard = lower DPS than a lot of stuff, 2+ shards = same or higher DPS against a lot of stuff. The problem I've found with the RSS is that once a crowd thins out you're going to start hitting things with 1 shard and often times no shards at all. It's disheartening to go from dealing 3x damage to 0x damage.

If you're going to be dropping a bomb, hitting 2-3 targets is a huge waste when a DBB or Nitronome can hit 5+ targets consistently for the same average damage. Your single target damage might be lower from bomb to bomb but overall your damage output will be a lot higher and nitronome provides you with a pocket of breathing room on top of it.

The third option is just to use RSS in the support role, behind someone that is pushing but again you're only going to be pushing in a single or double shards with low DPS.

The best thing I've used RSS for in FSC is sniping out trojans since it's easy to put the RSS in a position to hit multiple times with high frequency.

Morryn
Yeah, if it's just going to

Yeah, if it's just going to be for FSC then it's kind of a waste. Without the CTR reduction, the DPS is going to be pretty low even if you hit multiple enemies with 1 shard. I'd say since you made it, at least carry it on fiend stratums. RSS has that built in fiend bonus and even spamming it you can probably do good dps safely (shield canceling vs. a gun).

Ryoga124
Legacy Username
Well, I do have my Med. CTR

Well, I do have my Med. CTR trinket. That in combination with the eventual level-10-CTR-bonus would make it a Very High CTR. Would that suffice?

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Eeks
A general rule of thumb is

A general rule of thumb is that CTR will always be better than damage bonuses for damage bombs.

Damage bonus increases damage by ~6.5% every level.

So say you had a base of 100 damage per second (100dmg/1sec) you'd do 106.5dmg /1sec in one step, 139 dmg/1 second at 6 steps.

CTR bonuses decrease charge time from 7-12% per level. (the breakdown for sun shards specifically is 7.2% from none to low, 8.5% from low to med, 8.8% from high to med, 9.2% from high to vhigh, 9.4% from vhigh to ultra, and 12.5% from ultra to max)

So for a base of 100 damage per second you'll be doing 100dmg/928ms or 107.76 dmg/1sec. At 6 steps you'd be doing 100dmg/557ms or 179.53dmg/1sec

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Eeks
I ran FSC a bit with the RSS.

I ran FSC a bit with the RSS. Unlike the other damage bombs, you want to kite while using it. The best way I found was to bait zombies into lunging and then dropping the RSS and stepping away. This works well unless they do their breath attack in which case you can circle around and drop one next to them IF they aren't in a large group. The problem is zombies are usually in pretty large groups and there isn't a ton of room for kiting. The other (super risky) method is to run up and drop it next to them and bait them into swiping as you run away but the drop animation is long enough where about 10-15% of the time you're going to get hit which is pretty annoying.

The conclusion I came to is that it definitely isn't the best/most efficient bomb for FSC but you'll probably do OK using it as long as you're very careful.

RSS vs FSC [video]

Ryoga124
Legacy Username
Thanks, Eeks, for the

Thanks, Eeks, for the replies.
I have my DBB, which between the Med-level10 CTR and my trinket, I can charge fast enough for areas where I use it. I can chain Wolvers (the timing is a tad tight, but I can).
I am starting to get the hand of the RSS. At least in FSC. It is Level6-ish right now so it has, with my trinket, a High CTR. It isn't too slow, and I've grown used to knowing when to just stop charging and ditch. That isn't to say I'm not dying a bit in the process of learning. With my combined UV of MAX Undead, it is doing roughly 214-240 damage. I don't have any bomber armour, so... :v

That being said, I decided to pick up an Electron Charge since I had some spare crowns. While the EC had a bit of a longer charge and makes me move slower, I have found it is doing not only decent damage, but by the time I drop the bomb, I can switch to my RSS and plant it in the centre, just about when the EC starts to suck in, so I can back away just in time. It does a considerable amount of damage to the horde, to be honest.
I'd record it for you to judge, but I lack the resources (the recording programs and I'd rather not record it in an area that uses a fair amount of computer resources as is). Maybe you, someone with more experience, would want to do some testing on the method for yourself? I mean, it is really just the same as a Graviton Vortex and RSS, but the difference in damage because of the elemental bomb and shock damage seems somewhat significant.

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Eeks
Ryoga, The Vortex/RSS combo

Ryoga,
The Vortex/RSS combo is .. OK but it is extremely high risk with middling rewards. The problem with dropping an EC and then standing in the center of it is that when it starts its suction you have a chance of getting trapped inside of it. To capture as many slags as possible, you have to place the EC's maximum radius right on the edge of slag feet. This distance causes slags to begin their attack charging and by the time you finish the bomb drop animation and start charging the RSS you'll be sucking in slags that are sometimes in the middle of their attack which means that you have a high chance of getting hit as they come in and you're defenseless.

The payoff is too low for me. Because the vortex spins slags around, placing the RSS right in the middle or even guessing and placing if off-center doesn't always result in multiple hits. I found that more often than not, I was only landing a single shard despite "good" placement.

As for the EC damage; it's ok. Shock does ticks between 25-30 in FSC. I wouldn't classify this as significant damage, but in some scenarios (i.e. the right number of players in a party, primary weapon damage, etc) it could make a 1-2 hit difference (but keep in mind you're losing 1-2 hits worth of time setting it up). The damage on the back end of the EC is decent but I wouldn't say it is significant at all; it hits a bit harder than a haze bomb and only if slags remain in the vortex as it expires.

I think as far as theory crafting goes, the combo is delicious. What's better than rounding up 8 slags and one shotting them with a RSS? In practice, I don't find it to be as great as people try to make it out to be. Yes, sometimes you one shot slags but I find that usually there is a lot of clean-up work to do and we know how inefficient the RSS is at handling stragglers.

Ryoga124
Legacy Username
I understand the downsides,

I understand the downsides, Eeks, and like I said, I have died a fair about of times because the spinning cyclone of slags, but the combo is about all I can do in FSC.
I have my Avenger and my Blitz Needle with those two bombs. My only other weapons are my Acheron and my DBB. My DBB does consistent damage and all, but I feel that if I keep giving the combo some work, the max undead UV will pay off.
I understand your argument, though.

BiggestLoser
Legacy Username
Zelda

"I have my Avenger and my Blitz Needle with those two bombs."

lol, avenger and needle is ALL u would need in fsc, i wouldnt even THINK of using those kind of bombs in sword/gun combinations, simply because u already have a good dmg output without having to risk dying

if its just for fsc and u want 4 weapons badly, an argent peacemaker and a shock gun would be a good add up

"but the combo is about all I can do in FSC."

"I have died a fair about of times because the spinning cyclone of slags[..this is getting annoying]"

"[I have died a few times with my avenger and my needle..but im getting better (=]"

if u want to use bombs(because of ur trinket or for w.e reason) with ur swords/guns, the staggerstorm/shivermist(hate this 1)/ash of agni(not useful in fsc, but overall #1)/venom veiler/voltaic tempest are a good choice, too and even ur DBB can do better

Morryn
I can't imagine using

I can't imagine using graviton/electron without the CTR reduction that bomber armor/trinket gives you. If you have your heart set on using RSS in FSC (and I do use RSS as my 'damage' bomb* in FSC), then craft a status bomb as your second bomb. Shivermist is okay (it's the standard, I have mixed feelings about this), but Voltaic Tempest is also really good (nothing like having a trojan stop mid-charge due to shock XD). It will provide a LOT more utility overall compared to graviton w/o max CTR.

*Why do I use RSS as my damage bomb? Because I want the utility that a 'gun' provides. According to this data (http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/13148) it takes me 1.2 seconds to charge it with max CTR for ~280 damage a shard. Sure, it won't do the most damage possible, but I can use it to reach certain spots that are otherwise inaccessible to me. Also, it helps lure the enemies closer so I can plant a VT or whatever.

alitz
Legacy Username
Ash of Angi

Question:

If two players both use Ash of Angi.

Is the Fire status stack up? or it just deal damage like one Ash of Angi.

Many thanks