Spiral Knights - Gate Construction Formula

Gate Construction Formula

25 replies [Last post]

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 00:05

Techhead

Legacy Username

The gate construction formula is AFAIK, horribly wrong. In the last week of the beta, I recorded the top 3 minerals for every stratum of every gate built. I found that the gate operate by mineral permutations, not combinations. This means that there are 60 formulae, not 10. I currently have 13 recorded permutations, and all post-beta gates have been consistent with the beta ones.
I'm posting them by color initials (RYGBP), not by official names. Here goes:
RGY - Beast
RGB - Beast
RGP - Fiend
RBY - Gremlin
RBG - Gremlin
YGR - Fire
YGB - Slime
YBG - Slime
GRY - Beast
GYR - Beast
GPY - Slime
BYG - Freeze
BGR - Gremlin

Note that YGB/YBG is Slime and BYG is Freeze, and YGR is Fire while RGY/GRY/GYR is Beast.
It would be helpful if anyone could 'tip' a gate toward a permutation we don't have.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 01:32

ajericho

Legacy Username

Thank you. I'll see about

Thank you. I'll see about fixing it later today when I'm not worn out if someone hasn't already. I wonder what rhyme or reason will give us the permutations. But the size of that space would certainly keep us guessing.

Apologies for the rather incorrect guess.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 05:34

Saphykun

*sob*

Time to re-design the template again. Does anyone already have any ideas of how to display the info?
And everyone is free to tamper with this template if they like :D

And ajericho - no need to apologize! No one knew that you would be incorrect, plus your combinations weren't unreasonable :) Not to mention that lots of things on the Wiki is wrong now and that we need to update them.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 06:42

Equinox

Game Master

Also, one of the more recent

Also, one of the more recent releases said that Wegner would eventually have more information about gate construction. I'm hoping it's something that will help clarify things.

Possibly just alter it and have tables for each main color and then the next two colors can by x & y axes? Wouldn't be small, but would definitely be a bit more orderly and user friendly than one giant table.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 07:42

ajericho

Legacy Username

Hmmm, how to display this

Hmmm, how to display this info will be important. Maybe the tables should be by stratum type and then the colors?

Saphykun, I still feel a little bad about it. Does make me wonder if now there'll be a patch that changes the algorithm again. For all we know, the devs may have created the list of permutations and then randomly gave each stratum 6. O.o It could even be done for each release.

I look forward to what Wegner has to say!

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 17:00

Pupu

Legacy Username

Can someone record how many minerals of each type generate a level? The exact numbers on a number of cases I mean, as experiment results.
It might help to find a formula if it turns out to be come complicated than "most of these"

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 17:15

ajericho

Legacy Username

Pupu, that's a good idea.

Pupu, that's a good idea. We'll need a good sampling for each stratum type.

I'm not certain what to do about the wiki page, because I don't want to hurt the level generation template, and I'm not super-skilled at MediaWiki parlance. :(

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:11

Pupu

Legacy Username

Just add a disclaimer saying it's not up to date until someone fixes it.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:29

ajericho

Legacy Username

Pupu, good suggestion. Just

Pupu, good suggestion. Just did that now.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 03:06

Techhead

Legacy Username

New figures

I found 3 more, completing the slime category.
YGP - Slime
GYB - Slime
GYP - Slime

We're over a quarter there in the first weekend!

EDIT: Fixed.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 11:41

#10

ajericho

Legacy Username

Techhead, the last two are

Techhead, the last two are the same. Is one meant to be GBY? And also, good job!

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 19:31

#11

Clubsdeuce

Before the server went down

Before the server restarted for a bit, I noticed a construct level was slowly building up on the very last dungeon (Forgot the name of what it was though). There was definitely more purple and yellow in it and less red. However Blue and Green were balanced so I cannot tell what the third color was supposed to be. I'll try to keep an eye on it more and maybe others can too before the day is over.

Correct me if I am reading all of this wrong though.

--Edit--
Well dang it. It already got changed to slim in just a few min.

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 12:07

#12

Jamesh

Mineral themes?

I'll make a comment that'll make me unpopular - I don't know if you can tell which theme the gate will be simply by minerals, at least not entirely. Proof, you ask? Here's the proof for my theory (granted, I admit it's only a theory...)

Onyx Queen Gate (as of right now, about 1 1/3 days from being opened)
Stratum 1: Slime
Mineral Content (ordered): 12,662G; 11,192Y; 10,082B; 9,088R; 9,020P
Stratum 2: Shock
Mineral Content (ordered): 12,344G; 12,141Y; 9,342B; 9,171P; 9,046R
Stratum 3: Slime
Mineral Content (ordered): 16,800G; 15,141Y; 13,481B; 12,405R; 11,565P
Stratum 4: Freeze
Mineral Content (ordered): 17,812B; 15,938G; 13,978Y; 11,423P; 10,241R
Stratum 5: Construct
Mineral Content (ordered): 17,036G; 14,402Y; 13,703B; 13,370P; 10,881R
Stratum 6: Slime
Mineral Content (ordered): 20,933G; 19,037Y; 16,352B; 15,511P; 14,934R

Silver Knight Gate (as of right now, about 3 1/3 days from being opened)
Stratum 1: Freeze
Mineral Content (ordered): 13,834G; 12,037B; 11,773Y; 9,952R; 9,653P
Stratum 2: Slime
Mineral Content (ordered): 13,353G; 13,046Y; 10,759B; 10,070R; 9,821P
Stratum 3: Beast
Mineral Content (ordered): 18,530G; 15,789Y; 14,752R; 14,044B; 13,217P
Stratum 4: Beast
Mineral Content (ordered): 18,910G; 16,181Y; 14,679R; 13,678B; 12,884P
(Strata 5 and 6 not yet complete)

Sapphire Skull Gate (as of right now, about 5 1/3 days from being opened)
Stratum 1: Undead
Mineral Content (ordered): 11,666P; 11,452G; 10,678Y; 9,483B; 8,765R
(Strata 2-6 not yet complete)

Summary:
By theme:
Beast: GYRBP (x2)
Construct: GYBPR
Freeze: BGYPR, GBYRP
Shock: GYBPR
Slime: GYBPR, GYBRP (x3)
Undead: PGYBR

By mineral order:
BGYPR: Freeze
GBYRP: Freeze
GYBPR: Construct, Shock, Slime
GYBRP: Slime (x3)
GYRBP: Beast (x2)
PGYBR: Undead

Thoughts?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 12:10

#13

Saphykun

Nick said that the huge

Nick said that the huge number of slime levels were generated by people mining materials in the first tier.

Can we suspect that the tier which we got our minerals from affects the gate construction?

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 13:11

#14

Ekkosangen

Legacy Username

Saphykun - No, but we can

Saphykun - No, but we can presume that there are more Valestone and Luminite in the first few stratums than there are deeper into the Clockworks.

jlh0605 - You can find all of that information and more on my public spreadsheet Here. :)

Thu, 04/07/2011 - 19:39

#15

ajericho

Legacy Username

jlh0605, not unpopular at

jlh0605, not unpopular at all. We don't know how this all works yet, so the playing field is wide open for all sorts of theories.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 02:36

#16

Trias

@jlh0605

Note that themes of strata 2 and 5 of the Onyx queen gate were modified by the devs to avoid an all slime gate.

Fri, 04/08/2011 - 03:23

#17

Techhead

Legacy Username

For completeness sake.

I'm copying my numbers from the first post, along with ALL of my new findings.

RYG - Fire*#
RGY - Beast
RGB - Beast
RGP - Fiend
RBY - Gremlin
RBG - Gremlin
YRG - Fire*
YGR - Fire
YGB - Slime
YGP - Slime*
YBG - Slime
YBP - Construct*#
YPG - Undead*#
YPB - Construct*#
GRY - Beast
GRB - Freeze*
GYR - Beast
GYB - Slime*
GYP - Slime*
GBR - Beast*
GBY - Freeze*
GBP - Poison *#
GPY - Slime
BRG - Gremlin*#
BYG - Freeze
BGR - Gremlin
BGY - Freeze*
PYG - Undead*#
PYB - Shock*#
PGY - Undead*
PGB - Poison*#

* Indicates absent from my original list.
# Indicates not confirmed by myself, taken from other source.

Sun, 04/10/2011 - 17:32

#18

Jamesh

Older Gates

To Ekkosangen - thanks for keeping track of this, as well as keeping the older gates' information. This will likely become (or already is) the definitive source on gate construction information.

Mon, 04/11/2011 - 15:22

#19

Ekkosangen

Legacy Username

jlh0605 - Thanks, I'm trying

jlh0605 - Thanks, I'm trying to improve it so that it's a little more than just tracking stratum theme permutations, I want to track trends in mineral distribution and generation as well to understand WHY we're getting nothing but beast strata.

As a short-term prediction, I'd say Crimsonite and Valestone are going to switch places in the coming week or two.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 04:57

#20

requiemaeter

Legacy Username

http://i36.photobucket.com/al

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e27/kowsaidmoo/spiral_2011-04-12_20-49...
The mineral count orders for all of these gates are the same, but they have different strata levels.

What do.

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:58

#21

Techhead

Legacy Username

We've been over this.

We've been over this. If "Alloy Count" says anything other than "0" that means it's been modified by the admins to insert some artificial diversity into the system. Those GYR gates all would have been Beast otherwise.

EDIT: Also, since we have confirmed formulae for over half of all the gate permutations (32 by my count), should we just put it up on the wiki page as confirmed and leave the holes for now?

Wed, 04/13/2011 - 10:55

#22

requiemaeter

Legacy Username

Alright, my bad I gotta read

Alright, my bad I gotta read this stuff up some more!
Good work so far though!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:41

#23

dizzyknight

Legacy Username

Attack from Both Sides

All of this is great information so far guys, but what if we attacked this problem from two different angles? I'd like to offer my services in determining how each permutation can affect an individual dungeon.

My theory is that each permutation may provide a set number of levels/dungeons WITHIN a strata. I've already discovered that the layout of each level/dungeon will change every 5 MINUTES, but what I don't know is how many layouts/variations a single level/dungeon will have. I'd love to work at the bottom, while you guys seem to be working at the top - maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle, and discover what each permutation will provide.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 17:15

#24

ajericho

Legacy Username

I think there are a few

I think there are a few levels that are automatically generated (not simply chosen), but I'm not sure which (if any?) ones.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 10:05

#25

Gigafreak

Legacy Username

...Right. Umm. This may be

...Right. Umm. This may be thread-necromancy but I figured it'd be better to post thid in an old thread than post a completely new one.

I looked at the results and it looks like the stratum will simply ignore the mineral in second-place when the Anti-mineral is in third. Instead of the stratum for Mineral1 + Mineral2, it will become Mineral1 + Antimineral.

Green > Yellow > Red would normally be a Slime (Anti: Red) stratum, but becomes Beast instead (Yellow is ignored, leaving Green + Red).

Alloys override it all, of course.

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Gate Construction Formula