Can you get banned for looping a level? (Rejoing a player and redoing one level over and over)
I have been informed that some people have been banned recently and would like to confirm if they are officially clamping down on this.
Thanks
Arena Looping Is Bannable?
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 14:14
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 14:24
#2
I asked a similar question a
I asked a similar question a while ago which basically involved using the split team function in order to redo levels like jelly king, or enhance the chance for rare drops when splitting up in a level with love puppy.
The answer was (roughly translated): "the split function is intended to split up teams if more people want to join than fit into a single team. Any other use is abusing and can have consequences (no further details given).
In short: don't do it, it can get you into trouble."
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 14:26
#3
The original answer in German
The original answer in German language in case you want to run it through a translation service:
[quote]
endymion - Mai 08 at 4:13nachm.:
Wenn man "exploit" strikt verstehen möchte, dann ist es bereits Mißbrauch, einem einzelnen zusätzlichen Knight Zugang zum fraglichen Level zu geben, denn die Funktionen fürs Einladen und Aufteilen von Gruppen sind dazu natürlich nicht gedacht - sondern beispielsweise dazu, dass man sich aufteilen kann, wenn noch ein Gildenmitglied oder Freund online kommt, die Party aber schon voll ist, oder vergleichbare Situationen. In der Praxis ist die Grauzone natürlich zwangsläufig etwas größer, aber erlaubt ist beides nicht wirklich. Ob und welche Sanktionen wir verhängen, hängt aber von vielen Faktoren ab - Ausmaß des Mißbrauchs, Vorgeschichte der beteiligten Spieler und andere Dinge. In der Summe könnte die Antwort auch kurz lauten: Macht das nicht - es ist nicht so gedacht und kann euch potentiell Ärger einbringen.
[/quote]
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 14:40
#4
@ OOO
if this is a bannable offense, we need an official statement stating such. And a fair warning. Given that it is doable, and other "exploits" have been patched away---see crown/heat evaporation--it is only fair for us knight's of the cradle to feel it is a legitimate means of dungeon crawling, and heat grinding. Plus, you knowingly ignoring of this (altho previously made aware of it numerous times) has led to a community where this is common and accepted practices for us knights of knightly endeavors.
Another example of patches taking away exploits would be the basil joining and not being able to buy recipes. Token being scaled for how many floors you engage in. Binding and subsequent unbinding patches. AFK considerations for blast network. and surely other's i am missing. So again, without ever a statement officiall against this, and devs/mods knowingly turning a blind eye and deaf ear and mute tongue to the issue, it has been accepted as "okay" within the community.
If we must needs change our stance on this, please let us know with fair warning.
thank you,
Rommil
p.s. if anyone sends this into support, please link this thread
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:14
#5
if this is a bannable
if this is a bannable offense, we need an official statement stating such. And a fair warning.
You have had fair warning, exploiting bugs is mentioned as a bannable offense in the ToS. That is also an official statement.
If you really think that doing non-obvious things to get around checks that are already in the game is ok, but want to be sure, you need to petition the GMs. Until I hear that is ok, I'm going to play it safe and not do what appears to me to be exploiting a bug. If you want to play it risky, that's up to you, but you should not expect any more warning than has already been given in the ToS.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:25
#6
Considering the number of
Considering the number of people asking about this on a regular basis, a clarified statement seems appropriate.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:32
#7
Zelda
"If you breach this representation, or Three Rings has reasonable grounds to suspect that you have, Three Rings has the right upon notice to suspend or terminate your account and this agreement and to refuse your current or future use of Spiral Knights (or any portion thereof)."
:l
"19. Termination. Either you or Three Rings may terminate your account and this agreement upon notice at any time without further obligation to the other. Further, Three Rings reserves the right to terminate the Site, Services and/or Games, or any part thereof, at any time without notice and without further obligation to you."
:l
"Changes to the Terms of Service Three Rings may update the terms of service. We will notify you about significant changes by placing a prominent link on our site. Questions and Suggestions If you have questions or suggestions, please email us at tos@threerings.net."
i wanted to suggest making it obvious and clearly defining, how far it would be ok to use multiple accounts, but their response in email was so VAGUE, that i dont wana bother with it(for those who wana know, heres their main- problem- quote "case by case basis"), so if any1 feels like it, mail a suggestion regarding this topic to clarify things in the tos or any other kind of official announcement for a more comfortable ban(keep in mind ther is no public prove for any kind of ban, that may have occurred and even then, only players, who dont read through the tos(i dont know who reads through it, but i rarely read it and only parts of it, the intro is good enough, at least its read-able for a regular person with ease), would consider it unfair(knowing the tos is a must, so that beats the whole thing))
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:37
#8
Huh.
I sense a post from Eurydice in this thread's future.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:53
#9
yeah but @ wrs
yeah but is it a bug? I don't consider it a bug. It's a gameplay mechanic.
This is a slippery slope.
I mean is rolling UV's for max ctr and selling them a bug? One could argue you are exploiting a gameplay mechanic for your advantage. In a manner that was likely not the intended purpose for adding the ability to roll uv's.
What about stashing rose regalia? Is that a bug then. Because they never intended for them to be stashed and sold for incredible profit. You are manipulating a gameplay mechanic to profit at the expense of others.
Is manipulating ce market a bug? This helps only yourself and hurts everyone else, including OOO's reputation.
The responsibility to eliminate these things if they are considered ban worthy offenses should fall on OOO if they don't want us doing them. If they consider it a bug, they could patch it any day they wanted. I don't believe any of the above falls under the same category, for example, as the love puppy bug where people would sell literally hundreds of them. That was an exploit. And thus they patched it.
It would be an unethical business practice for them to stand back and say we'll take your money, and let you do this thing we built into the game and have not taken any official stances on even they it is knowingly being done. Then suddenly ban you for it. It's kinda stealing. Plus, not to mention the fact that they would be wiping out literally months of some bodies hard work. Lot's of us have days and weeks of game time. To come in and wipe that out would be unethical from standpoints of business and personal ethics..
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:49
#10
My thinking about this is.
My thinking about this is. They can't make it impossible for you to go solo in a group because not everyone likes being stuck in an awesomely bad pick up group.
So i guess the case by case basis, is it something that you're sitting at and letting people loop through you and doing that constantly? or are you afk and people come in realize you're not there and go solo?
I would just stay away from looping and I advise my guild to do the same.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:52
#11
if this is a bannable
if this is a bannable offense, we need an official statement stating such.
The Terms of Service is our official statement on exploits. In order to create a Spiral Knights account, you must agree to abide by the ToS. "No one reads ToSs" does not negate this.
And a fair warning.
The Terms of Service is your fair warning, also.
Given that it is doable,
Just because something is doable, does not mean our Terms of Service allows it.
and other "exploits" have been patched away---see crown/heat evaporation--
Exploit A having been patched and exploit B not having been patched does not grant you a waiver to disobey the Terms of Service.
it is only fair for us knight's of the cradle to feel it is a legitimate means of dungeon crawling, and heat grinding.
You can feel all you want. Taking advantage of an exploit is still a violation of the Terms of Service.
Plus, you knowingly ignoring of this (altho previously made aware of it numerous times)
To you it may seem as though it was ignored. Again, that does not make it all right to break the rules to which you agreed to abide. Do you see where I'm going with this?
has led to a community where this is common and accepted practices for us knights of knightly endeavors.
Say it with me, Knights! :)
If we must needs change our stance on this, please let us know with fair warning.
You must needs change your stance on this, per Spiral Knights' Terms of Service.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:53
#12
yeah but is it a bug? I don't
yeah but is it a bug? I don't think it's a bug. It's a gameplay mechanic. {...} I mean is rolling UV's for max ctr and selling them a bug? One could argue you are exploiting a gameplay mechanic for your advantage.
The key, at least to me, is that OOO has closed the obvious ways of looping. You don't have to avoid anything obvious as part of the rolling the UV or trading. But, say you found a way around the randomness of the rolling, say via a bug that crafted a max UV at 37 seconds after the minute. If you just roll UVs normally and happen to roll at 37 seconds after the minute, that's fine, but if you exploit this knowledge to get around the randomness, then that is bannable.
Again, if you think it is ok, then go right on doing it, but don't complain if you get banned. Or, if you want to be sure it is ok, as a GM. But OOO requires you to acknowledge the ToS, so you have been given all the warning you need.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:59
#13
delete
delete
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 15:57
#14
agreed dancin
i think the only safe course of action is to avoid until we get an official word on it. But i also think OOO should clarify. (not this vague interpretation of ToS). It would take at most two simple lines of text
Either:
Looping is defined as:
and it is a bannable offense.
or
Looping is defined as:
and will not be considered a bannable offense.
Two simple lines, and their will be no further confusion, miscommunication, or unexpected consequences.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:00
#15
Called it! :D Post from
Called it! :D Post from Eurydice, check.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:06
#16
@ Eurydice
thank you for an official response.
There is now no longer any confusion.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:08
#17
Just in case no one got what
Just in case no one got what Eurydice said, I'll sum it up for you.
Looping is bannable. Don't do it. It's against TOS always has been and always will be... no exceptions.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:09
#18
Two simple lines, and their
Two simple lines, and their will be no further confusion, miscommunication, or unexpected consequences.
Uh, you seriously think that OOO should spell out every single possible exploit that could ever come up? No. OOO assumes you have a brain and a minimal amount of ethics. They closed the obvious methods of looping, do you really need anything else? A list of exploits would cause people without a brain and/or ethics would use any such detailed explanation of exploits to use the exploits.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:14
#19
wrs??
I srsly think your post was unnecessary and childish. I think valid concerns were raised by the community, and there was clearly a level of uncertainty about it, and that the proper thing to do was address this. If you are still unsure why this was a necessary thread, review post#6. If you are still unsure, review post #6 again.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:19
#20
@ philidor
check Eurydice post above.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:25
#21
I'm in no way for looping but
I'm in no way for looping but where do you draw the line with the join a dive in progress option? Is a guy running down to a desirable depth solo then inviting his friends and completing the levels then repeating the process not an exploit simply because it took more time and energy than looping despite also using the same mechanics to make more crowns per elevator fee?
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:30
#22
Zelda
oh yes ther will still be confusion unless the 2 lines get stickied(not the abstract ones from eurydice, but the ones making it evident)
"Either:
Looping is defined as:
and it is a bannable offense.
or
Looping is defined as:
and will not be considered a bannable offense."
this should be stated/stickied/mailed
there are many players looping several maps, ive also done it many times by joining people and sometimes even on my own
i dont recall any of us getting reported, warned or banned
now keeping the tos in mind, still having my own understanding for exploits, the thing above of every1 doing it, and the lack of rewarding f2p gameplay with CE, depending on the CE prices, does in fact not only confuse, but also slightly frustrate me(they get money at the risk of getting banned, which appears to be very little)
the only thing that will keep ME(me, whos read this thread) from looping maps is this: "I have been informed that some people have been banned recently"
i will gladly warn my friends, if i end up joining them, while theyre looping, but thats just a limited amount of players
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:41
#23
Given that this method has
Given that this method has been allowed to persist for six months unhindered and requires no chicanery to pull off it's an entirely valid question.
Instead of a simple yes/no answer as to whether this is working as intended or not we get a load of doublespeak about the ToS, leading me to believe that devs aren't even of an accord on if this is an exploit or not, or that Eurydice doesn't know what is being discussed and just posted a generic "tos says cheating is wrong, therefore cheating is wrong" reponse. Yes the ToS says not to exploit, but the ToS does not define what every exploit is, nor can a customer reasonably expect it to, so that customer is here asking for clarification.
If this is truly not working an intended, why hasn't it simply been changed to disallow a player from rejoining a party he has gone solo from. Seems to me like that would fix the exploit with going solo for crowns and rejoining the party as well without requiring this ridiculous 90 second decay on crowns and heat.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:45
#24
Here's yet another TL;DR of
Here's yet another TL;DR of Eurydice's post:
Yes, arena/JK/Vana/anything looping is against the ToS and is therefore a bannable offense.
Tue, 09/06/2011 - 16:52
#25
I apologize if my post came
I apologize if my post came off as flippant to you. However, the fact remains that we will not be announcing each exploit and saying, "Now remember, this particular one is against the rules." Exploiting bugs is against the Terms of Service, period. That is not doublespeak. If you are unsure if something is an exploit, do not engage in it, and consult a GM to see whether it is an intended feature of the game.
Here: https://www.spiralknights.com/support/#mail
Send a support ticket. It's faster and you will get a more definite answer than one from a player.