Spiral Knights - TARGET LOCK, NO GOOD FOR PVP.

TARGET LOCK, NO GOOD FOR PVP.

73 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:07

Gianfri

Hello admins,

I'm writing for the first time about LD, and it's related to the target locking feature in it. Target lock seems to be a useful tool for most players, but I personally believe it takes away a lot of the fun and complexity of the game. I love how LD can be really competitive, technical, and mental, but sadly this target lock thing just makes a bad player with a piercing weapon a thousand times better than he/she really is.

I keep raging because of lucky kills, and I'm forced to use it myself if I wanna match the spammers.

I'm sure many people won't like this, but honestly, it's a pvp game, and having an auto aim seems pretty unnecessary. It destroys a lot of the fun. I'm not sure why nobody has complained about it by now, I guess they prefer using/overusing/abusing this rather than learning how to wait and space yourself when you're gonna hit..

The worst part is that it's so BORING! I've seen myself doing the most ridiculous kills with a Barbarous thorn blade, hitting my opponent and suddenly I see myself moonwalking all over my enemy and killing him going backwards (I'm sure most players have seen this and felt pretty ehh about it).

My point is that it makes the game less competitive, it makes you a spammer, more than a skilled player, and it's not even fun :/

Please think about it, I'm sure many good players will agree with this.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:38

Shianjox

Legacy Username

Target Lock On PvP

I agree that target lock on LD should be eliminated to conserve the complexity of the game, +1

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 13:25

Antistone

Legacy Username

Even small ping times can

Even small ping times can mean that an opponent that appears to be in the middle of your target area is actually safely outside of it, especially where strikers are involved. It's conceivable I'm wrong, but I would guess that if they disabled auto-aiming, we'd get a flood of posts about how "the lag" mysteriously became much worse than it ever used to be.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 13:55

Gianfri

@Antistone Well I don't think auto aiming is a fix for ping problems, that's just a situational occurrence. What I'm saying is lagged or not, it gives a stupid advantage to unskilled people, making everybody capable of killing you with just a combo.

Comboing shouldn't be easy, and target locking makes it your first option, and obviously the most effective.

Spamming a GF/Avenger/Piercing sword with a bit of skill grants you broken shields and dead people, and target locking makes it even more ridiculous.

You don't fix a high ping with an auto aim, that's just nonsense to me. Then what? Let's all just spam attacks everywhere, trying to move your cursors over some unlucky guy that gets autoaimed with a 3 hit combo..

I'm not saying this is affecting my game, in fact I use it cause it works, but taking it off would separate good players from bad ones.. Auto aim just makes everybody a deadly thread, don't you agree? :/ I want more than just click click click.. It was fun the first day in the testing server, when auto target wasn't enabled yet.

Am I crazy for suggesting this? I think auto aim ruins it really bad. Honestly, isn't it more fun and satisfying to kill someone by reading their moves, by winning cos of strategy and not because of a lucky spam?

Don't get me wrong, I love comboing people on LD, but it's not even satisfying when auto aim is on.

I just want more room for skill and competition, tech skills, mental skills. Don't we all want that?

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 14:57

Antistone

Legacy Username

Actually, far from being a

Actually, far from being a no-brainer, I think the number one way I get myself killed in Lockdown is trying to combo when I shouldn't. When I dash up to a Guardian with a raised shield and perform a GF combo, it doesn't break the shield, it causes the Guardian to block my attacks and then murder me. Admittedly, a Flourish is somewhat safer due to its speed.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 15:09

Dpod

It definitely takes the skill out of the game when you just have to brush your mouse around or near some rcon enemy. It's not hard to find those rcons with auto target, which really puts them at a disadvantage. If i see that dead man mark above my head you'll most likely see me BTB'ing the area and they will most likely find the end of my sword. I realize that auto target may be needed for handguns, but btb is completely OP with a crazy aimbot quality or GF swing in the opposite direction then bam 360 swing to your face.

This would eliminate random 3/2 swing spamming and actually using those tactics you learn in t3 depths.. one or two swings then shield. If it's possible to use those 3 or 2 full combo swings effectively then that's a bonus. Left click left click left click.. dead. Is more of a t1/t2 tactic, t3 should have more skill than that. Maybe eliminating auto target for t3 games and being able to have it for t1 and t2 games to help those newer to the game. Train them with their weapons, loadouts and tactics, but being in t3 matches should require some skill.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 15:31

Gianfri

@Antistone Cause you don't just go and combo a fully healed guardian shield like that, you make sure the shield is damaged before you combo.. Anyway I'm not gonna discuss strategy, that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Obviously target locking doesn't guarantee a kill, or a broken shield, but it does require less skill to do it (way less skill). It makes dodging so much harder, and most of the times not even an effective decision.

For example, you break a racon's shield, and they're defenseless.. If you wanna finish him while he's running away you just move your cursor CLOSE to him, and it will automatically go exactly where he is, and hit where he is, not where you're actually aiming. I hate that, it's too cheap, like it or not, it is cheap.

I would like to see a week of LD without target locking.. It would force people to get better, and not just spam. Comboing shouldn't be easy! At least IMO.

PEOPLE PLEASE TELL ME HOW IS TARGET LOCKING A GOOD FEATURE IN A PVP GAME, HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW? I'm gonna freak out.

Please three rings, think about it logically, I beg you.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 15:52

Gianfri

Nick

"Lock-on added. Should make fighting a lot easier for some players who rely on it in PVE" - Nick

I see why you would do that Nick, but as discussed with a friend in game, I think it shouldn't be used with swords! Maybe for guns it could help in a way.. But still I don't like it.

Why would you make fighting a lot easier? It's not impossible without it, far from that, seems only fair to me (More skill, less luck).

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 16:28

Jalok

You can just turn off

You can just turn off auto-lock on in your options menu.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 17:02

Gianfri

@Matoro

@Matoro Did you even bother to read the whole thing?

-frustrated-

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 02:19

#10

Psychorazer

Guys...

Really, auto-lock is...I really don't know what else to say to you people...

There are ups and downs either way. If you move slowly, in a line towards your opponent, then yes, Auto-lock will become a problem for you. Like someone already mentioned, it doesn't guarantee a hit. It just fires a shot at the closest target you are facing. It can MISS if you run fast enough, or throw up a shield. Otherwise, there is't much else. Alchemers will barely be able to hit anything (ive tried) because their bullets are just too slow. Magnus uses have the capacity to be owned by strikers: they sand still to shoot at some guy who is running circles around him, then dies from a combo attack.

On the other hand, NOT using auto-aim, may make it a little harder to find your target. BUT, it allows you to fire strategically.

Examples: Firing an alchemer ahead of them so they run into it. Firing an explosive box close by to them so it explodes. Singling out the weakened player so he dies instead of attacking the closer guy with full HP.

It doesn't make it any great deal better for other people. There are other factors that influence the effectiveness of auto-aim. Really, auto-aim can easily be mimicked by someone with good enough time judgement skills and a good enough mouse reaction, so you can't really tell who's using it. I managed to hit some Striker who ran past me with at least half the shots from my Antigua. He probably thought I auto-aimed.

Its no big deal. Its ALMOST like saying: swords are dry, you just combo in their direction and they die eventually. If something is sticking up your craw, find another way to deal with it. Find an auto-aimer, team up with a guardian and get up close and personal and see if his auto-aiming can help him.

Auto-aiming just fine-tunes you aim to the target. you have to be at least facing them for it to take effect, and even then, the shot will only end up where the target was when the shot was fired. If you're not there, it won't hit you. Go striker and run around him, or go Guardian and shield. Recon even, although I hear there is a bug where auto-aim can hit cloaked players...

Cheap? Not really. If you want to complain about cheapness, then you may as well mention greavers. Their haze penetrates your shields, doing you damage when technically, you're already defended. What do people do? Adjust. Got an Owlite or other. Killed them before they got hit. Whatever. They did SOMETHING about it.

TLDR; It makes no difference, just adjust to it and find a way to either make it useless, or make you more combat effective against it. Just because there is a slight handicap, doesn't make them over-powered. Anything that can shoot fast enough to make auto-aim even moderately effective in PvP is handicapped (Antigua: Low damage. Magnus: Slow firing speed.)

...great...Now I'm probably going to get pummelled for my extremely long text speech, in which I am almost CERTIAN at least SOMEONE will take offence from...Although I meant none. Just tired of hearing people complain about auto-aimers when it makes no great difference.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 08:59

#11

Gianfri

I know.

@Valkyrie182 I know slow guns are not good with it, I'm not saying it makes every weapon easier. What I'm saying is a BTB is so ridiculously stupid against recons with target lock.. It makes it almost impossible for a recon to take down a striker with a BTB and target lock.

"Auto-aiming just fine-tunes you aim to the target. you have to be at least facing them for it to take effect, and even then, the shot will only end up where the target was when the shot was fired"

^ Why do we need an aim tuner? It does make you kill more, because if the enemy is close to you, the direction you're facing isn't really a big issue since you just have to move your cursor close to the enemy and attacks will fly all over him. Do you really think it doesn't make a difference? It is a stupid difference, I know cause I use a BTB myself. It's really stupid against recons specially.. And if you're a striker all you have to do is fly around like a bug and wait for the person to be close enough, and you just click click click, mouse close to him and you will land a hit. Without the lock you would have to predict where he is gonna be if you wanna hit them with the combo.

Another thing is, if you have a BTB with ASI High or more, and if you land the first hit, you land the whole combo because the enemy has no chance to evade you after the first hit, cause the other 2 come quick and ridiculously accurate since the enemy will be close enough after the first hit to just spam on your face.

"TLDR; It makes no difference, just adjust to it and find a way to either make it useless, or make you more combat effective against it. Just because there is a slight handicap, doesn't make them over-powered. Anything that can shoot fast enough to make auto-aim even moderately effective in PvP is handicapped (Antigua: Low damage. Magnus: Slow firing speed.)"

^ Guns are not what I'm talking about, I'm talking about piercing swords and strikers running around with avengers and fausts, gettin close and just attacking in your direction.. If you try to get behind them, target lock will make them turn around on the second hit, making it almost a 360 hit that will most likely hit, shielded or not, you take a stupid hit. As soon as they see you are trying to evade them, they take out their piercing weapons and BAMBAMBAM, if you're lucky and the person sucks, you will survive, otherwise it's so painful and quick..

If it doesn't make a difference to you then you obviously haven't played a competitive PvP before. It's like playing super smash bros with aim lock lol.. Imagine, it's just as stupid.

"on the other hand, NOT using auto-aim, may make it a little harder to find your target. BUT, it allows you to fire strategically"

^ Yes Yes and Yes, It will make it way harder if you're used to just use your cursor as a helper of the target lock. But it opens doors to smarter strategy, and more skill dependent. That's what I want from this game.

Woah I can't believe this. Really I'm not crying about it cause I get pwnd with it, I can think and I can get around it, but that doesn't mean it's not a stupid feature for a competitive PvP, at least in this game it just seems unnecesary to me. Lockdown was just fine in the first day of testing, without the target lock.. Nobody complained, and good players were noticeable among not so good ones. Does it really make no difference for you people?

It's not a broken feature, but an unnecessary one.. It takes away so much of the mental part of it, it makes it harder to make your enemy do something stupid for you to approach. With target lock on and BTB you already know you can't do some stuff you could do effectively if the feature didn't exist.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 03:04

#12

Psychorazer

...

Sword like sealed and most others have a hit range. If you're in that range, you're screwed. The only way someone could mess up with that is if they comboed in the direction away from you.

I HAVE played competitive PvP before, and lost, multiple times, especially if there was a Bombhead mask to be won.

But seriously, how can you tell if they're auto-aiming? Do you have some sort of program that puts a tag on auto-aimers? Or does the guy just randomly announce: 'I'm an auto-aiming noob. U mad? ^^' at the end of the match? Like I said, auto-aim doesn't have anything that can't be replicated by other players. Maybe the ones you see ARE predicting where you end up, and matching each hit. Strikers have to stop to attack, so auto-lock doesn't make all that much a difference either. Stop, shift cursor, attack. Simple.

Anyway. Why worry about how little skill some other's play? If they have no skill, whoop-de-doo. Then make them want to get some skill and smash them hard into the ground. Finding it hard because of their sheer power with no direction? Find another way to stick it to em. Partner up with a teammate and cut them down. Personally, I use a 'Guardian and anything else combo'. Cover the attacker-part of your little duo and let him decimate anything that comes close.

If you say it makes the game boring, then remove it to give yourself some challenge. See if your skill makes any apparent difference without the auto-aim. Maybe teach others about the pitfalls of auto-aim.

Really, there isn't much else you can do. If I wanted to complain about things that make things too easy, I may as well complain about Bolt-action sniper rifles in CA. 95% of the time, one shot kill. Doesn't matter where. And people call the ones who use semi-autos noobs...-_- I could also say that that takes no skill. Shoot someone in the foot also kills them. At least when I used a Semi like the SR25, I worked to get headshots every time. Of course, its easier said than done, but I got my fair share of kills with it.

Other games aside, The thing about PvP is that it's open for new strategies. It's up to the players to find better ways to handle things. Once, our team got completely screwed over by ONE recon dude, who camped out on our spawn checkpoint, and because we were too dumb to think of going elsewhere, he shielded, unshielded and cut us down, quick and fast. What our team SHOULD have done was found a better way to either get him, or avoid him. Maybe do the guardian trick and take him down, go somewhere else, or beat him at his own game. This isn't just about having skill. It's getting players to think outside what they have.

Another example of strategic thinking. I have a graviton charge. Place it, and it does less than my Tempered Calibur. Better way to do more damage? Place it so it sucks them in, then hit them with a charge hit. EXTRA damage. Better strategies are just as good as having skill handicaps, or just having skill.

Skill is more for games like Gundam and FPS games, where reaction, timing, and general skill are all essential. This is just supposed to e a cute game where you get to bash stuff while requiring minimal skill. Pokemon takes no skill. click attack is pretty much all you end up doing.

My point is that you can't expect people to change because you find something to easy. If that was the case, I have a long list to dictate. But it isn't.

I know what you mean, and I know where you're coming from with this, but...I dunno. Hard for me to put this into words. This game doesn't need much skill. It's supposed to revolve more around tactics than anything. Think JK. If you have the right gear, all you need to do is hit him with it. Lesser gear, then you have to find the best way to avoid damage while dishing out a lot of it.

Btw, I still mean no offence. (Just checking)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:09

#13

Andraxcore

Auto target is good for gunners and bad for fairness. In my book, fairness is greater.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 06:40

#14

Gianfri

@Valkyrie182 Well obviously we don't look at the game the same way, I respect your opinion but I still believe it's not just a little thing I don't like, but an improvement to the enjoyment and fairness of a T3 Pvp game. (Yea specially tier 3, I wouldn't mind having target lock in T1 and T2 since those are the learning tiers).

@Andraxcore Well said.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:36

#15

Opod

SK is (as far as I know) the

SK is (as far as I know) the only game with a lock on system in a PvP, and that's for a reason. You're basically running around with an aimbot 3 swinging away. I've got a vog set and 2 5 star asi trinkets. Do you know how easy it is to mouse click and hover over a guardian with a BTB? Very easy. They won't even have a chance to swing their sword before i break their shield. Do you know how easy it is to be able to find an rcon with lock on? Very easy. I might not hit them but I'd definitely know their general area. Lock on in a PvP shouldn't be implemented for this very reason.

It's a great learning tool for t1 and t2 players.. but when you've aquired the skills in t3 battle.. lock on shouldn't really be needed for more advanced and experienced players. I know there are a ton of ways from interupting swords and what not.. but PvP is player vs player.. not player/help with aiming vs player.

Sat, 09/24/2011 - 18:48

#16

Psychodestroyer

@Gianfri

Mokay, I'll leave you to this. I've said all I need to. And this doesn't affect me all that much. Just providing an objective opinion cuz...although I don't use it, I think it's fine :D

Just...No-one...troll me...><

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 05:48

#17

Shidara

Auto-aim = uded

I started out Lockdown without using auto-aim, and I didn't hit high damage-counts, and I also had a little trouble hitting other players with a Flourish-type sword. I was then getting owned by these strikers using Final Flourish/Barbarous Thorn Blade and thought to myself "How do they do it?" I looked around on the forums and saw complaints about auto-aim, even before this thread, and decided to try it out for myself...

I was playing on Ruins, and equipped my Barbarous Thorn Blade. After some fighting, I didn't notice too big of a difference, but it was big enough to land a hit if I was aiming close enough to my target (I'll talk more about this later). Then it happened. I was trying to kill this Recon around CP2, crossed my fingers, and did a three-hit combo. My first hit landed, and the second missed, but it didn't matter, for the third would kill him. Then he ran around me and I thought, "Dang, I missed my chance!" Suddenly, my character did a U-turn and skewered the poor thing, and I stared blankly at the screen, for I knew I was not aiming behind me.
Another example of auto-aim in use was when I was looking for a recon, pestering me at a CP. I swung my Gran Faust in one direction, decided to swing to the left, but instead did a full 180 degrees turn and rammed my heavy sword into the cloaked recon.

After seeing it in practice I came to realize just how powerful you become once you enable it. Or was I just getting exceedingly lucky with those two instances I remember? I don't know, but Flourish-combos are much easier to perform with it, and that is a fact. Have you tried to hit a moving target with the third strike of a Flourish-type without auto-aim? Do you even know how small that freaking hitbox is? Heck, I even miss fleeing Gremlins without auto-aim using the Flourish-type. It's a neat weapon, but hard to master, yet, auto-aim is your shortcut to becoming a rapier-master swordsman.

I agree with Gianfri on this one, auto-aim has to go.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 16:24

#18

Gianfri

...

Three rings please don't ignore this, or you will lose many MANY players who expect competitiveness in lockdown, myself included.

AUTO AIM FOR A PVP GAME IS RIDICULOUS!
AUTO AIM FOR A PVP GAME IS RIDICULOUS!
AUTO AIM FOR A PVP GAME IS RIDICULOUS!

I'm gonna say it once more, AUTO AIM FOR A PVP GAME IS RIDICULOUS!

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 14:36

#19

Gianfri

Im gonna bump this forever. And ever.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 14:42

#20

Orangeo

Bump the other million

Bump the other million threads like this while you're at it. OOO hasn't taken it out yet, dispite the phone books worth of complaints, and probabaly never will.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 17:36

#21

Nodocchi

I think auto-aim makes the

I think auto-aim makes the game more fair, I mean yeah it makes bad players better in PvP but isn't that the whole point? As far as I can see the amount of bad players far outnumber the amount of good ones and it there was no auto-aim then bad players would get killed so badly they probably wouldn't even play PvP anymore. I mean yeah it makes the game worse for a few people who thinks their "skills" aren't shining through all the auto-aim but it makes the game more fun for the majority of players who aren't that good at this game. Also, you can show how much better you are than everyone else even with auto-aim, I included a few screenshots of my PvP games to prove it.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2339/spiral20111006183407.png

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/spiral20111006190535.png/

Sat, 10/08/2011 - 18:50

#22

Discb

Why

I see your point that auto-aim is a [tart] for those who are good at pvp, but what about everyone else? It helps those who are new to pvp. It gives them the gist of at first so they'll come back to the pvp side of things. Also what about the disabled crowd? I doubt im the only handicapped guy playing this game, so what would you do? I personally only playing with one hand, how do you think I aim? I'm fine if theres a auto-aim side and a nonauto side or something like that, but removing auto-aim might be as bad of an idea as tf2's crates...

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 08:51

#23

Orangeo

Nodocchi, that makes no

Nodocchi, that makes no sense. You being good at PVP dosen't affect my opinion on auto aim.
Discb, having one hand sucks, but I'm sure theres a way to control your character. Seriously, sorry if I sound like a jerk, but you can figure it out, or prehaps get OOO to make an exeption. People who have both hands don't get to use handicaped parking spots after all.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 09:54

#24

Vanillateddy

+1 bump

I hate it when I'm a recon I'm being realy sneeky, pass by someone who has a gun out they see their indicator that shows I'm around they shoot around give up and then suddenly pull out a florish and swing around and all of a sudden jump from one direction and hit me... its sooooooooooooo [freaking] anoying..

The only reasonable auto aim that should be on is possibly gunners.. possibly.. because usualy I'm pretty good at gunning people down but it is a real pain when going up against a guy with shield on because he'll just continue to run around me... me not be able to realy hit him.. and him pull out his sword and kill me.. I think its kinda sad how little guns do and I wear gunner armor and I'm stupified...

But realy auto aim should be changed or removed all together

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:28

#25

Gianfri

@Discb

It doesn't help you learn, it makes you dependent.

I use a piercing weapon in pvp for example, but I barely ever do the combo cause since I don't auto aim, my attacks are limited to canceling the first swing and using it's range to hit even when you think I won't hit. That's the kind of stuff people should try to do, instead of just autoaim+clickclickclick.

There are so many strikers that just fly around you, wait till you're close enough and they jump on you, and if they miss (You can escape the combo If you're in constant movement), spamming click around your enemy will be enough to get back in an offensive position in a ridiculous way.

Piercing weapon's speed+range+auto aim+fast recovery from hits is way too much IMO. Taking auto aim off would make it better, even though they would still be incredibly good weapons for people who can think.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 12:04

#26

Autofire

I haven't read the all the thread yet, but...

The issue is: Auto-aim will also target cloaked people.

Sneaks by someone holding a DA....WAM! He suddenly turns around and smacks me with it, I die. There should be no way he knew I was there.

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 13:05

#27

Kwizzy

This & another post got me to

This & another post got me to try it out. I'd say I was "above average" in PVP without it. Here's the differences from my POV after a few hours:

- Against bad players, my damage score practically doubles playing the same way.
- Much easier to kill people running away.
- I barely even have to look at the screen to do well with autoaim.. just point my mouse in their relative direction.

- Against good players, I die more often as I'm more predictable in movement.
- I have a harder time hitting players who dodge auto aimed attacks with ease.

- Gun shots land a bit better at medium range. Worse at short & long.

And most importantly, I finally understand why people complained about piercing weapons all the time. My swift flourish and flamberge are bbq hax with the guided combos. Other weapons don't seem quite as bad, but didn't try much. I haven't tried my double loadout yet, but very curious how it'll change... without autoaim I'd always swing twice and switch weapons, avoiding doing the third hit of the combo.

I thought those ridiculous looking hits people landed on me were due to lag, but now I was doing them myself. But there does seem to be some lag related stuff making a difference. For example, I can't hit someone standing directly behind me normally. But if they were walking in front of me at the time I swung, and are now behind me, they'll die. With autoaim off, they usually wouldn't be hit in the same situation.

I hope that makes sense. I'm thinking in french right now :P

If more people were good at dodging & avoiding attacks I think it wouldn't be such a big difference.

@Discb - you raise a really good point

Sun, 10/09/2011 - 18:44

#28

Spamisalreadyinuse

agreed. this is the only game

agreed.

this is the only game i can think of where there is an auto aim option for players playing against each other. sure it's not an fps, but why lower the skill ceiling for everyone else?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 06:42

#29

Gianfri

Bump time.

Thanks for posting guys.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 09:05

#30

Jamini

I wholly agree with this and

I wholly agree with this and removing UVs from all weapons in lockdown.

Recon death marks are practically worthless due to the recon being unable to get anywhere near a swordsman without getting revealed. When I play recon, I've gotten to only using it to get close enough for a Callahan shot or two before recloaking and getting the hell out of dodge before the auto-aimers on the other team spam me out. Moving unpredictably only goes so far when a flourish user can do a 180 between his first and second swing.

As for UVs, I'd like to see them go so there is less pay-to-win mentality in LD. That's all.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 12:08

#31

Kurapika

I COMPLETELY avoid t3 LD because of the messed up auto-aim. I could play along if I wanted (I have full Vog, dmg trinks,

and a BtB) but I find it WAY too cheap.

Getting 10k+ dmg every round without any skill at all is ludicrous. I prefer t2 LD over t3 any day!

There is only one way to say this, AUTO-LOCK TAKES ALL THE SKILL OUT OF T3 LD PLEASE REMOVE IT FOR SWORDSMAN!

I have noticed more 5* guys like myself reverting to playing t1 and t2 LD just because of the stupidity of auto-aim.

Kurapika

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 17:45

#32

Gianfri

Thanks for the +1 and the support on the thread guys. Let's hope SK thinks about it enough!

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 23:19

#33

Negimasonic

I don't really care either

I don't really care either way since I'm mostly into bombing but I think I did pull a 90 degree turn on ya today lol so I can support it going.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 14:42

#34

Gianfri

@negimasonic

yeah its ridiculous :P

ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.
ADMINS PLEASE REMOVE TARGET LOCK FROM PVP, IT MAKES NO SENSE IN A SKILL BASED GAME.

I'm quitting the game if nothing is done about this. PvP brought such an interesting and potentially complex mechanic to the game that completely replaced the clockworks and it's repetitiveness. AUTO TARGET DESTROYS much of complexity of the pvp possibilities. IT MAKES PEOPLE JUST KILL BY SPAMMING ATTACKS THAT WILL LAND EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR EYES CLOSED.

IT'S LIKE SOCIALISM, GIVES THE CHANCE TO BE OP TO EVERYONE, MAKING TALENT/SKILL NOT EVEN NEEDED = IT MAKES PEOPLE DEPEND ON A STUPID TOOL THAT MAKES THE JOB EASIER, WHILE REDUCING THE POSSIBILITIES THAT COULD BE REACHED WITH SKILL ONLY.

Is it such a hard concept to understand for you programmers and game designers? Do you really want a game like that? It's just plain stupid to me.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:00

#35

Marcusspiralcus

Seriously. I wish this game

Seriously. I wish this game was less forgiving in terms of PvP by removing the autoaim. By adding autoaim, you are just giving lowly scrubs a chance to compete against the upper echelon of PvP'ers. That is why I don't like playing console FPS's: auto targetting just gives sucky people a chance to beat better players through game mechanics. If somebody really wants to beat good players, try getting good yourself instead of having the game hold your hand and help you.

AND YES! I fully agree with removing UV's from weapons in PvP environments ONLY. It's not fair having added extra perk on your sword when someone else with the same sword, why does your sword deserve to be better? It's like CoD with the + perks.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 14:59

#36

Orangeo

Insulting OOO, threataning to

Insulting OOO, threataning to quit, and using caps isn't going to make them post... not that they would under any circumstances.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:01

#37

Heavy-Duty

I agree... partly

Take off auto-aim for PVP alone, but auto-aim is useful for dungeoneering. I actually didn't know auto-aim was used at all in SK until I read this thread and looked it up O_O. Meh, auto-aim isn't all that important while battle hordes upon hordes of enemies while trying to run away, not caring who you want to kill- just to kill something...

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:04

#38

Madadder

OOO should remain silent and

OOO should remain silent and objective... you posted your views, they either reviewed auto aim and are working on a solution (not necessarily removing it) or they reviewed it and deemed it fine as it is and will not remove it

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:32

#39

Byrnius

Byrnius says:

"I'll tell you what. Auto-Aim full force in T1, Auto-Aim nerfed in T2, and no Auto-Aim in T3."

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:41

#40

Orangeo

Byrnius makes sense. Though I

Byrnius makes sense. Though I play T2 for fun sometimes, I'd accept that. Compromise is victory, after all.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 16:21

#41

Five-Hundred

Many games use auto-aim.

Many games use auto-aim. There is nothing wrong with auto-aim. Almost all of those games ALSO disable auto-aim for PvP, and that's the truth. Why OOO leaves it in is dumbfounding.

There really is no argument to why it should be kept in. If pvp is about skin and not having the best weapon, then auto aim wouldn't be allowed.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 16:34

#42

Gianfri

Sorry for my frustrated words, and my rude ways, but I'm so tired of it. Sooo tired. I hope they change it at some point.

I don't mean to offend three rings or anybody, I'm just saying it is stupid to have target lock on pvp. Maybe they haven't thought about it. Either way, I will be waiting for the day they fix it :)

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 18:32

#43

Five-Hundred

raging over it won't make

raging over it won't make them listen to you any more, if anything it'll make you seem like you're raging and not that you have a valid point.

I just don't see any reason to have auto aim on pvp unless they just don't want it to be taken seriously at all.

Look at blast network though, people were probably put off because it took skill with dodging bombs (mostly having little lag, but lets prtend that isnt' it) but then they made it with those stupid rockets and noobs just blow themselves up instantly because they know they're going to lose. This game is for noobs.

Everything they do points away from there being any chance of any sort of high skill level competitive scene.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 18:41

#44

Marcusspiralcus

@ Five-Hundred: Maybe they

@ Five-Hundred:

Maybe they can have more match making criteria? Like you can join either Competitive (Higher crown buy in, no autolock, losing team recieves no crowns, winning team gets what they paid + 50% of the losing team's crowns? maybe no UV's on weapons or armour?), or casual (lower crown buy in, auto aim can be toggled on or off, losers still get crowns maybe like 50% less than what they invested, and winners get like 20% of the enemies' crowns.)

I feel a system like this could still have lower tiered people/noobs still have fun and satisfy the hardcore players' appetites for competition.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 19:35

#45

Five-Hundred

More options are always

More options are always welcome. They often don't explore that direction from what I've seen of OOO...

Duels would be cool with a fully customized rules and restrictions, but for a pvp game that uses a queue, you'd never get enough people to join a game with the same rules as you. It would be cool if they did a Y!PP style lobby where you can join games and spots, but that would probably lead to prize farming.

They probably have their own reasons for their choices, or it could just be that they haven't implemented or thought about changes in these parts of the game. I'd love to hear from them.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 21:00

#46

Kinkypenguin

No more Auto-Aim in PvP!

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 21:17

#47

Gwenyvier

If I was Nick... I would so

If I was Nick... I would so troll everybody and post a message in here that just says "Something."

~Newg

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 21:40

#48

Niimo

Can't see how it's any worse

Can't see how it's any worse than gear.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 21:43

#49

Avihr

wow you do really hate target lock do you? me too LOL

i've seen you lots of times hating on auto-aim using players

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 23:19

#50

Nicoya-Kitty

As a data point, I was

As a data point, I was playing some T2 matches this evening, and one of the guys who was using a snarby sword with auto aim switched it off for comparison, and his damage went from about ~4k down to ~2.5k, or about a 1/3 decrease. He was still doing quite well, but there was definitely a noticeable difference when fighting him.

Just in case anyone is somehow under the impression that it doesn't make a fairly sizeable difference.

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TARGET LOCK, NO GOOD FOR PVP.