Spiral Knights - Ease of earning someone a warning.

Ease of earning someone a warning.

41 replies [Last post]

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:21

Razoid

I play this game with the chat filter off, not because i feel swearing is edgy or that it helps me express anger, but because it is a natural part of my personal dialog that anyone can choose to filter out of my messages.
I was having a conversation with someone in the game when a bystander told me not to swear and reported me for offensive chat, and the next day I had a warning on my account for crude language.

Please tell me I can't get my account taken away just because some guy I don't talk to thinks the drop of 1 non-aggressive swear is grounds for calling a game master. This is the second time a player has done this.

I am not submitting a support email because my account is still in good standing and I do not wish to discuss the integrity of my account. This is a discussion about my security against other Knights.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:34

Dirt

I've gotten a second and

I've gotten a second and third age verification because I told someone I was 12 years old. I feel like sometimes it's a little to easy to be reported and have action taken against you.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:37

Evilnut

1. There are minors (13 years

1. There are minors (13 years old) playing the game so no one should say anything inappropriate.

2. It's written clearly in the Terms of Service. Violate the rules, and you can expect to be warned/banned.

3. Yes, your account will be taken away if you keep swearing.

4. Your security against other knights? Your mind works in mysterious ways.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 20:53

Razoid

Evilnut you should read the

Evilnut you should read the rules. Offensive language is allowed "when it is harmless smack talk" And they reccomend that people who have a problem with crude language simply turn the filters on.

We're talking about people with their filters turned off, reporting people because they feel entitled that they lack the personal interaction of coloquially communicating with others.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:08

Doombexar

If they have their filters

If they have their filters off, which come on as Default, they shouldn't be able to report people for foul language. They could easily just turn them back on and everyone is happy. If there is a filter, then OOO has justification for including foul language in their game, and the people choose to use it or not.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:15

Razoid

The logic that they shouldn't

The logic that they shouldn't report offensive language with their filters off is a reasonable argument for a future feature, but in terms of techinical ability, not justified morality, users can place reports for offensive language with their filters off; and it still gets me a warning at my login.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:16

Mejezfeld

Evilnut has not spoken to a thirteen year old in years.

Seriously, I learned half my swears from playing Counter-Strike with my classmates when I was TWELVE.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:18

Pootermobile

Razoid

Speaking of reading the rules, it appears that you have not.

This is taken directly from the Terms of Service (section 6.3):

"[You may not] upload, post, email or otherwise transmit through Spiral Knights any material that (i) is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;"

And there it is there.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:28

Razoid

Poot, I'd say the rules

Poot,
I'd say the rules declared in the report player menu take priority over the terms of service for most situations. If it says don't report people using swears for friendly comedy, then they don't want to ban people doing such.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:31

Diamondos

To me I don't get the

To me I don't get the problem, because I never use swears, what do they mean anyway?! Just don't use swears; if its a part of your language, isn't really a good reason, and Pootermobile did show evidence of the Terms of Service, and this problem could just be dealt with by not using any swears at all. I'm sorry Razoid, but I don't really agree with you at this point

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:47

#10

Razoid

Not using swears just leaves

Not using swears just leaves you so detachted from honestly relating to most people. Not swearing demonstrates personality just as much as swearing does, and that's not the personality i want to demonstrate. I need to be demonstrating how well i enjoy myself and how laid back i am, without SAYING "I'm laid back and enjoying myself". It's honestly pretty important to carrying across emotion in text. Just because it doesn't add to the criteria of a message doesn't mean it adds nothing.

I don't want this discussion to degrade to this. I really thought i didn't have to explain to people how language lends itself to character, but i guess anyone who doesn't swear is too self-entitled to miss claiming they have a moral high ground.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:54

#11

Agrimony

This ties in with the other

This ties in with the other thread about 'spamming'. The GMs are too concerned about the most frivolous things and, additionally, things which are specifically ALLOWED in other games (Might I add, other MMOs by which the age limit is only 13!) . It is because of this that I feel that my account has no security from being taken away in an instant. It is this sole reason that the likeliness of me investing money on this game is extremely low.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 21:59

#12

Razoid

Well i don't wish to bargain

Well i don't wish to bargain future payments and run my mouth like I already paid, but I love this game A LOT. And I'm worried about how easily I can run into someone like Evil, Poot, or Diamondos and get banned for saying "****ing awesome"

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:07

#13

Diamondos

hey now Razoid, I wouldn't do

hey now Razoid, I wouldn't do that!One of my friends still swears when I'm around, but I don't report him. I'm just saying an alternative because its a lot of trouble to go through this, but if you are worried about how people will report to you, you might as well say it out loud in the haven. I don't know how to contain anyone from reporting you, and in this scenario, the problem may last a really long time...

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:11

#14

Razoid

The answer i'm just looking

The answer i'm just looking for is that if I get enough automatic warings from these situations, will I also get an automatic ban?
The issue intended to be at hand is that anyone can just fly through all the warnings and advisions in the report window and get someone a warning without doing anything.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:26

#15

Shoebox

Then if you get warned again, you know you're being backstabbed.

I don't understand why you would worry about the security or integrity of your account, then possibly compromise it by giving other players a chance to report you for 'acting naturally' in a public environment.

Use the PM feature or create a friends only guild.

That's your security against other Knights. By excluding them from your social circle.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:43

#16

Razoid

Yes, i know everyone who uses

Yes, i know everyone who uses formus has NO IDEA what fun is. It was reiterated several times in the thread already.

"Don't interact with people, don't be funny guy, don't be yourself"
The issue is that I don't need to break a rule for someone to issue a warning at me. I am worried about this being exploited against me.

And no the solution isn't to just STOP interacting with people, that's the point of the game. How do i not get banned from playing? Stop playing? It defeats the purpose.

I was looking for replies similar to the first responder, to dicsuss about the exploitation of the report feature. Not for people made of cardboard to tell me how being an attractive person is for dummies.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:40

#17

Thellion

take this as a hint for real

take this as a hint for real life, in real life it wont get you a warning; that potential employer or mate simply wont call you back. it doesnt make you seem laid back, it makes you look illiterate. There is almost never an appropriate time to use profanity, there is ALWAYS a word that will illustrate what your trying to say better, quit being lazy.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:49

#18

Razoid

Okay Lion, New subject come

Okay Lion,

New subject come in here to talk about how cool and off-the-hook clean dialogue is! You've all poured so much effort into what you think is a righteous path, come Shove it down people's throats here!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 22:55

#19

Shoebox

I'm not going to lie. I swear. But I'm not a [jerk] about it.

I GOT REPORTED FOR SAYING BAD THINGS AND INSTEAD OF NOT SAYING BAD THINGS I WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO NOT GET REPORTED BY PEOPLE BETTER BECAUSE IM SUCH A COOL AND EDGY INDIVIDUAL

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:00

#20

Razoid

The subject has changed, and

The subject has changed, and it's off-topic for general discussion. don't bump the thread.

I don't need to retype everything i've said already, and i shouldn't have to remind you to read it.

I am breaking no rules, offending no people, and insulting no players.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:20

#21

Twiddle

1) Swearing is against the

1) Swearing is against the TOS. You can and will get banned for swearing.
2) The chat filter prevents people from seeing swear words when they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. The chat filter is not a justification for swearing.

I am breaking no rules, offending no people, and insulting no players.

You can think what you want. You can also enjoy your ban.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:19

#22

Evilnut

"I am breaking no rules" As

"I am breaking no rules"

As Pootermobile quoted the Terms of Service very clearly,

If you swear, you are breaking the rules. And you can be banned for it. Period. Someone reported you because your foul language offended them. The admin checked the log, saw you said, and issued a well deserved warning.

The thread is absurd. The breaker of rules complaining about other people informing the authorities.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:23

#23

Skankingrove

Really the problem here is

Really the problem here is with the chat filter. Having the chat filter on doesn't prevent you from seeing somebody else swearing with their filter off, it simply prevents you from swearing. The chat filter should change any foul language you see/hear from others, not just your own.

If the chat filter worked this way there should be no reason anybody in the entire game can report anybody else for swearing unless they are harrassing them. As is, you just have to be careful in haven or other places that are highly populated.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 23:34

#24

Diamondos

It's kind of like the

It's kind of like the oxymoron word : bittersweet, it contradicts itself;I know Razoid wants to express himself, I would still go with the alternative and just use words that come out of the dictionary, its too much trouble fighting this. Oh and if you want to express emotion, us descriptive words. The point is, its too much trouble and unnecessary Razoid, there is no way to go around this, and besides, Spiral Knights just wants to protect its players and I respect that as its fun and it take responsibility for its players.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:06

#25

Mejezfeld

learn a lot of euphemisms

Of course, if you're losing hard-earned CE at the hands of His Gelatinous Inbred Cuboid Spineless Carcinogenic Malignancy- you often don't have the time or the patience to type out the euphemisms to express that you seriously want to violently braise his excretory core with a broom handle, and will simply opt for one of the seven deadly words.

On that note, I have only been reported once in-game and that was because I was being stupid and filter-dodging (HINT: I was spelling something backwards), and another time I earned a temp-ban in the game for swearing on the forums.

I have never in the entire history of my actually playing the Clockworks or PVP ever run into someone who actually objected to me using language that would require my tongue to be doused in industrial-strength alkali.

That may or may not be because I only curse when I'm really at the end of my rope, and at those points there is generally someone who agrees with me.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 00:31

#26

Dirt

This is for everyone who

This is for everyone who posted other than the OP: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/DirtTB/2011-09-29_00001.jpg

And if you cannot see what I am calling out, then please look here: http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/DirtTB/2011-09-29_00001-1.jpg

It is all of you who are actually wrong in this situation. It is clearly stated here, in the same screen you use to report your fellow Knights, that "friendly" curing is permitted, while hateful, directed cursing is not. While you are quoting a very nice passage of the Terms of Service, you are wrong in your assumption in that it governs the players' use of "unclean" language.

And no, you can't argue against this. It is right there, stated by the game itself.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 02:27

#27

Repartee

Well looky here

Dirt - 1
Everyone that didn't read the complaint button - 0

By turning off your chat filter and then reporting people for commentary not directed at you shows that you can't manage to figure out the function of a chat filter in the first place. If you hadn't wanted to see words of a more coarse nature you would keep it on. To report it is to just stand on a moral soapbox after deigning to be subjected to that material. Especially given the fact that the player in question has to go out of their way to turn off the filter in the first place. That's just nonsensical.

Would you go walking into a butcher shop if you hated meat? No, you'd avoid that place of business because it's certainly easy to not go walking into it. Stop being silly.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 02:41

#28

Knightydood

Furthermore, the same screen

Furthermore, the same screen Dirt used to illustrate that point can be used to completely refute the fact that cursing is not permitted in this game. If you look here: http://imagehost.online-image-editor.com/images/29113056zHtt0CbcO/291129...

It specifically says that A. the chat filter removes the offensive words in question, and B. not to file complaints while the chat filter is active.

This leaves only one kind of person who could be possibly filing the complaint; the person who has the chat filter left on, but complains despite this, due to a holier-than-thou attitude. This is exactly the type of person that the OP points out as being harassing. This type of person is a much bigger problem than the one using the offensive language, and there absolutely should be measures in place to add a level of security to guard one's account against these complaint filing "griefers".

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 06:34

#29

Volebamus

Just curious Razoid, after

Just curious Razoid, after the bystander threatened to report you, what did you say to them? If they managed to harass you enough to make you retaliate to them via chat (and happened to swear directly to them), then I see what may have happened.

There are reports of some players who purposefully indirectly harass other users to force others to retaliate, which then gives the harassers enough to report the victims. Don't know if that happened to you, but it makes more sense than what else what suggested here.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 07:33

#30

Lukehandkooler

Words dissemble Words be

Words dissemble
Words be quick
Words resemble walking sticks
Plant them
They will grow
Watch them waver so!

I cant believe we, as a society are still trying to hold people morally culpable for "foul" language. Its just letters or noises. Who is in any position of authority to give words some kind of PG13 or R rateing and WTF are their credentials? I can insult someone, hurt their feelings , or evoke unpleasent or provocative imagery just as well if not better without having to use some blue note four letter word.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 09:47

#31

Razoid

Hello Volebamus, thank you

Hello Volebamus, thank you for your inquiry about my situation.
I was talking to another Knight and used the f-word as a descriptor, in the way you would say "****ing awesome". The bystander knight said to me that I shouldn't swear and so I joked with him saying that "I could talk anyway i want" with the sprinkles of over-use of foul language one would add to such a statement. He didn't respond to me after that and I thought nothing of it. I'm pretty sure another knight in my area commented that he should have his filter on.

And the next day I had a warning. I had not used any wordings or spellings that would count as filter dodging, so i have to assume that player reported me, and him claiming I was being offensive is enough to get me a warning.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 10:03

#32

Debianlinux

Your House = Your Rules

Who is in any position of authority to give words some kind of PG13 or R rateing and WTF are their credentials?

Private property owners of which OOO are in respect to their servers and their game.

As to the snitches, well, they're just snitches.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 11:57

#33

Eurydice

Community Manager

Foul language, as someone

Foul language, as someone mentioned above, IS a violation of the Terms of Service, and that's not going to change. That said, there is slack built into the system; you won't get permabanned the first time you drop a single, frustrated f-bomb, or anything like that. If, however, you use a bunch of foul language regularly, you will get dinged with warnings and, if you persist, eventually suspension time.

My suggestion to the OP, then, is that you find some way of being edgy and expressing your anger that doesn't break the rules. Or if you can't, that you accept the inevitable results, as you've been forewarned.

Edited to add: the chat filter is not there to make it okay to swear a blue streak, either. They're there to take the sting off for anyone who walks into an area where another player is breaking the rules.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 12:58

#34

Dottor-Troione

And you, OOO, are aware that

And you, OOO, are aware that following this rule strictly you would have to ban 98% of players? Thus accepting the inevitable result of bankrupt. ^^

Anyway you should change what is stated in the complaint page: as others in this thread have pointed out, it says more or less the opposite of your post.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:02

#35

Dirt

I agree completely,

I agree completely, Dottor-Troione. As someone who does not consider swears to be offensive, I feel like this is something that should be a little more clear.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:18

#36

Neozeru

Here's the solution to all

Here's the solution to all your problems:

Don't talk in global/normal chat.

Case closed.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:35

#37

Eurydice

Community Manager

And you, OOO, are aware that

And you, OOO, are aware that following this rule strictly you would have to ban 98% of players?

Read my post--I said there was slack built into the system. As you can see, we have not banned 98% of our players. :)

Anyway you should change what is stated in the complaint page: as others in this thread have pointed out, it says more or less the opposite of your post.

Yes, I agree that the language could be better on that page. :-/ When in doubt, the Terms of Service is where to look for what is and is not against the rules.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:38

#38

Prolevel

as dirts picture says....

as dirts picture says it has wroten'if the chat filter is off u shouldnt fill in a complaint instead turn on the chat filter' so there was no good reason for razoid to get baned.
and howd i set a pic for myself?

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 13:54

#39

Guardianknight

@Prolevel

@Prolevel:
Click on Forum Preferences next to the search bar.
Click edit.
Pick an avatar.
Click save.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 14:49

#40

Razoid

An he still says "If you need

An he still says "If you need a way to express anger"

No one reads entire messages, just the parts they can attack.

"it says more or less the opposite of your post."
Heck, not even more or less. It flat out says clearly, not ambiguously, that the first option for people offended by blue words is to use the chat filters.

Thu, 09/29/2011 - 15:01

#41

Eurydice

Community Manager

I addressed the issue of what

I addressed the issue of what it says on the complaint UI vs. the Terms of Service above, and I agree with you that the conflicting message is not ideal. However, foul language is against the ToS. If you get reported for it, and you show up in the logs as swearing a blue streak, you're going to get noticed. You swear at your own risk. It's not up for debate.

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Ease of earning someone a warning.