I know this has been brought up before but, is it worth using an armor that say has Normal/Piercing defense and pairing it with a helm that has Elemental/Shadow defense? I know many people say stacking is good, but what about the 4 way split??
Does it work or does it leave you helpless because its too mixed up?
I currently wear Fallen Crown (Normal/Shadow) and a Vog Coat (Normal/Elemental) but find myself wishing i had piercing defense (apart from a shield)...
Any input is appreciated!
Is Mixing 4 types of defenses a plan to fail??
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:20
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:27
#2
I understand where you're
I understand where you're coming from, and i do weave and dodge, but sometimes that wolver gets its teeth into you anyways... would having piercing defense buffer that attack? or would you still lose tons of health like usual?
What about wearing Armor of the Fallen with Dragon Scale Helm????
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:30
#3
Hmm
Complete defense isn't bad at all, at least it can be worn everywhere. Some people find it entirely sufficient. Others use it as a stepping stone toward a variety of defense options. Regardless of what one wears, unfortunately the best defense is to not get hit. Having the right armors on will just slightly increase survivability. There is no armor that can withstand a T3 Alpha Wolver, for example.
Optimally you'd want to double up on the defenses you'll face... so if there is a T3 Beast strata toss on full Skolver, T3 Fiends might call for full Dread Skelly, etc. That costs quite a bit of CE though, so instead try to work toward a set that'll give you complete defense in the areas that are causing trouble.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:33
#4
thanks Culture, that makes a
thanks Culture, that makes a lot of sense... and i know that having several sets is ideal, but i guess i wont have the time or resources to put into that sadly.... so i just need something that works all around for now..
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:40
#5
Hmm
In my opinion, armors like Dragon Scale Helm, Divine Veil, etc. that provide no normal defenses have a small shortcoming. If you are going into a T2 Beast strata, for example, does Dragon Scale Helm play a useful role there? The damage types will mostly be Normal/Piercing but Dragon Scale only provides Piercing defense of those two. So even if someone did Dragon Scale Helm + Skolver Coat, you'll end up with 1 Normal, 2 Piercing, 1 Elemental. That just isn't going to be as good as full Skolver which would provide full Normal and full Piercing.
If going into a T3 Beast Strata, then full Dragon Scale should provide all the piercing defense one needs. But is that any better than full Skolver? That would have provided full Piercing too, so I don't think it is a better option.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:51
#6
Incidentally your options are
Incidentally your options are limited when it comes to Piercing/Shadow. There's only one line that provides that, and it doesn't have a helm to match your Vog Coat.
Thankfully, it doesn't have stupid negative resists.
Dragonscale Mail is your only option for allround resists, if that's what you're after.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 14:53
#7
thanks so much for the
thanks so much for the input!!
what about Azure Guardian Armor mixed with Divine Veil?
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 15:15
#8
I use divine veil and vog cub
I use divine veil and vog cub coat or skolver depending on stratum. Its not so much for the defense mix but for the status mix (fire and shock mostly, skolver is for piercing when it exists). So yes you can play with mixed defenses. The important piece of armor to me is the shield, bring the appropriate shield and it will make the levels extremely easy, bad shield and you'll have to play better.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 19:43
#9
People usually build shadow defense last
...ahem. Anyway, new players end up with Normal+Piercing defense first more often (Cobalt, Wolver, Gunslinger, B. Buckler, Defender, Jelly).
I don't have any experience with the "jack of all trades defense" though. I ain't sure if it's the best idea. But initially this provides a lot of flexibility in gate and stratum choice especially in tier 3.
Getting a full set of armor can be better because you do very well against a specific group of enemies/specific strata. The bad news is, if all the gates aren't to your armor's liking you'd have a difficult time. This drawback of a full set of armor is partly solved by the boss stages. Since you know that that stratum will be there all the time, now it makes sense to own full Piercing Defense for RJP, Elemental Armor for ICMF... and "maybe later" Shadow+Fire Defense against FSC.
Thus, no one makes Shadow Armor "until later" because of this. And you wonder why people hate fiends...
tldr: I prefer a full set to "4-defense" because there will always be a stratum to use it against.
Wed, 10/05/2011 - 19:58
#10
Divine Veil + Skolver Coat
Divine Veil with Skolver Coat gives you all four damage protections, the four most important status protections, and two offensive bonuses. I recommend it as a first, general-purpose armor set. Once you have a decent generalist armor, you can build specialist armor.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 03:18
#11
I totally agree with Bopp!!^^
I totally agree with Bopp!!^^
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:38
#12
I've currently been using a
I've currently been using a Vog Cap with Shadow high along with a Skolver Coat with Shadow Max and have had no problems thus far.
From my observations defense seems to have diminishing returns. Thus it seems, to me, that you get the most benefit from defense the less you have.
For an example, it seems like if you have 0% shadow, and get X amount of shadow defense, that helps more then having 50% shadow, and getting X amount of shadow defense.
Therefore having a bit in every category seems to be beneficial.
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:57
#13
I know we are talking PvE
I know we are talking PvE here, but I made a set (including trinkets) that provided almost dead even protection for Normal/Shadow/Piercing/Elemental and Fire/Poison/Freeze for T2 Lockdown. I just found that I got slaughtered by pure Normal Damage & I would wager that the same would be true for pure any other type damage. Maybe the master of none set works better at the 5* level in PvE, but that experience has put me off to all damage loadouts.
*edit* lol I though I double posted for a sec. We really do need custom uploadable avatars...
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 12:03
#14
It only fails in that you
It only fails in that you usually end up with less normal - which a lot of things either split normal or do normal all by itself. The best way to get all four types is to get an armor with normal and one type, a helmet with normal and another type - and have max uvs for the third type on both. This would give you equal of the three types and double normal. - Probably the best you can get. Of course then you have to think about status resists...
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 16:04
#15
Hi Cc!
go for skolver coat/divine veil.
divine gives the dmg boost. do NOT get skolver cap, divine mantle, as mantle does NOT have the dmg boost towards fiends.
divine veil/skolver coat is the best all-around set i can thing of, 2 dmg boosts, all annoying statuses coverd, and all types check :D
Fri, 10/07/2011 - 16:06
#16
In T3, you're really not
In T3, you're really not going to rely on your armor to give you survivability -- your shield does that, as well as actually dispatching enemies so they stop being a threat. If one does have the wherewithal to get 5 star versions of all the various armor types being discussed here, T1-T2 are trivialized by just by your gear being overpowered, so what actual pieces you get is somewhat irrelevant.
The game puts an enormous weight on your offense. It's one thing to be able to take one more wolver bite, but that's cold comfort if you have a pack of them on your heels and don't have the firepower to take them down before you make a mistake, and such things are both inevitable and fatal the further one descends. I'd worry a lot less about maximizing defenses and more in ensuring you can take out any threat quickly. The latter takes care of the former.
Sun, 10/09/2011 - 10:00
#17
min/maxing delights
I thought mobility is the first defense, with shield being secondary. Either way, armor is definitely very far behind the others in priority so I started focusing on weapons as soon as armor and shield became good enough to avoid getting killed before I even know what's happening.
I'm going for generalist armor first, too. Right now it's kinda up in the air which is "better," though I'm leaning toward generalist because it takes less time to get one set than several, we have to equip for two depths at a time, (which usually have different themes) I'm more concerned with just having enough resistance that nothing can kill me just about instantly when I screw up and get cornered, and from what I've heard (read: I cannot confirm this, so take with a grain of salt.) increasing defense investment has a decreasing marginal value. That means, combining two pieces each with V amount of X resist/defense does not yield 2V amount of X resist/defense.
I have eclectic tastes, so I dream of Three Rings introducing a whole stratum, available in T2 and T3, which has all monster families and status themes represented in every level in the stratum. If that ever happens, generalised armor will be the specialised armor for that stratum. :D Sadly, I doubt they'd be interested in doing such a thing since it would upset the whole armor balance model...
I see two main armor strategies for covering all four, each in terms of one "base" piece whose value is distinctly above-average and some options that complement it well in terms of generalising, with one option being the "primary" complement to the base piece. They are complicated by the fact that the above-average pieces change types in their alchemy paths, but it's important to have different pieces anyway to swap out at need when a stratum is extra difficult and requires some specialisation.
The one I'm shooting for is Divine Veil (since it has a bonus over the Mantle) as the base and Skolver Coat as the primary swappable. The prime loadout would cover Fire, Shock, Curse & Freeze, with a medium damage bonus vs. Fiends and only Pierce being a little weaker than the other three damage types. An alternative to consider is Mercurial Mail to trade the Freeze resist and some of the Normal defense for extra Shock resist, a bit of movement advantage, and bringing the Pierce defense in line with Elemental and Shadow, though you need to run Roarmulus a bunch of times just to get started on the bottom piece. Another option is Justifier Jacket for dedicated gunners, and since ASI is effectively a defensive bonus since it allows you to start moving or shielding faster, it can be more than worth the lost Freeze resist. Justifier also seems to have the Skolver's higher Normal defense and Mercurial's higher Pierce defense. Divine Veil is kinda the Divine Avenger of armor, since it covers what are arguably the most painful status effects- Fire and Shock. Curse resist is also handy for Faust users who charge it up.
The other option is Radiant Silvermail (since there's no top) as the base and Grey Feather Cowl as the primary swappable. Primary configuration covers Fire, Shock, Poison and Curse resist, with medium damage bonus vs. Undead, Normal defense being the one lagging behind this time and an added weakness to Stun. Swap-outs include Vog Cub Cap for sword specialists and Nameless Hat for gun specialists, both options granting medium ASI bonus and losing the extra Stun vulnerability in exchange for Shock resist. Gun specialty also loses the Fire resist. There are two Bomber options, but I'd go with Volcanic Demo Helm since medium CTR bonus (note: bottom of that set has only low bonus) probably increases DPS output about as well as the Bombastic's damage bonus but also makes bombs safer to use.
Quite honestly, having piercing defense is not going to help, as most of the game is concentrated on dodging and reading enemy movements. Getting piercing is not going to help.