Spiral Knights - Tier 4: Into the Core

Tier 4: Into the Core

27 replies [Last post]

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 23:19

Cpt-Malashenko

Well, I've recently noticed a thread about King Tinkinzar in T4, but I thought it was a little overpowered. I believe it was made by... wait... Ah yes, Heavy-Duty. And yes, I do like his ideas. I am actually going to draw from his ideas to post what I expect of T4.

No, I am NOT claiming the entire thing as my own. I am just building on it.

OK, like Heavy-Duty suggested, I would also expect 15 floors instead of 7 or 8. And also, the Spiral Warden and Basil advise you to return and blah blah blah. I liked that. But what I would like to change the monsters.

The Elite Crimson Order

Appearance: Basically the same as other Gremlins, except they ALL wear helmets similar to the demo Gremlin helmet. They are colored red, and have hammers on their back. Also wears a Com Unit accessory and a Helm Mounted Display accessory (Apart from the Scorchers)

Crimson Hammer:

These guys are basically the bread and butter of the Crimson Order, resembling thwackers. However, they do NOT use actual thwack hammers, they use swords and shields. Like Mecha knights, they can block projectiles from guns and such. Also, the frontal-left part of the Crimson Hammer is shielded. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS THE TROJAN/SLAG GUARD/MECHA KNIGHT SHIELD!!! This shield only covers a fourth of his body, leaving his right side and back open to attack. They have their hammers on their backs, and can switch between their swords or their pulsars. That's right, pulsars.

Combat Medic:

Also armed with pulsars, they would take potshots at you from afar, and run around the room, healing fellow gremlins if needed. There is a large + sign on his helmet, and carries a white briefcase, also marked with a +.

Crimson Pyro:

Wears a gas mask and a helmet. Essentially the same thing as T3, but could actually MOVE while flaming, as well as change direction. These flames also arc towards a player. Flames have longer range and Pyros are immune to fire.

Crimson Grenadier:

These guys are armed with an autogun-like weapon, with no shields equipped, but, like T3, have them on their backs. These guys plant bombs that resemble land mines and are difficult to see, and they chuck explosive grenades at you. Their assault rifle like weapon does elemental damage, just so you know, and are also equipped with an accessorized helmet.

And again, I must stress this enough so that people do not frame me of stealing ideas, I AM NOT CLAIMING RIGHTS TO THESE!! THESE ARE JUST MY IDEAS FOR WHAT I WANT TO CHANGE. So please don't rage.

Other monsters: OOO, be creative. ;) But I have some suggestions:

The gun puppies are painted Red and gold, shoots 5 shots rapidly in a straight line and then a scattergun shot.
Blast Cubes instantly detonate, giving no warning.
Mecha Knights can cloud themselves with steam, reducing 25% dmg done against them.
Trojans and Lumbers react more quickly.
Red Rovers can rotate when they flame, much like the Crimson Pyro.

The last five floors belong to the gremlins specifically.

Abandoned Gremlin Outpost:

First floor is a Deconstruction Zone, Patrolled by Ironclaw and Darkfang, along with a few Crimson Order units supervising them. Oh, and a ginormous amount of mecha knights. There are also plenty of Gun puppies.

Crimson Order checkpoint:

Much more densely occupied with Crimson Order, plenty of Red Rovers and Gun Puppies. There are a couple of Ironclaw technicians working on a project. Few Darkfang, usually only accompanying Crimson Order Patrols.

Outer Core:

100% Populated by Crimson Order and Mecha Knights and Gun Puppies. The groups of Ironclaw technicians don't fight you--they just run away in fear, only to be slaughtered by the Crimson Order. Now you know what the project they were working on was; to repair and improve Project Roarmulus.

Inner Core:

This is a mini-boss area, resembling an arena, with four levels of arenas where swarms Gremlins and Mecha Knights try to stop you. The first one is populated by Ironclaw, second by Darkfang, and third by Crimson Order. The fourth one is like a boss. The Crimson Order Commander meets you personally. He greets you surprisingly in Spiral speech. He asks if you are suprised he speaks your language, and then calls in waves upon waves of Crimson Order and Mecha Knights to assist him to try to pummel you. He is roughly 1.5x the size of the average gremlin, wears a commander's billed cap, and uses his 2h Golden Thwack Hammer, with his shield strapped to his left arm, so the only way to attack him is on the right.

At about 25% hp left, you cannot hurt him anymore. You have to finish off the last wave he calls on you. Then he summons Roarmulus, and this time they cannot be damaged at all. They have shields around them, and move randomly. Now the Commander is vulnerable to your attacks, once you kill him, Roarmulus will shut down. VICTORY!!!

The King of Kings: King Tinkinzar

(Refer to Heavy-Duty's Version: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/27520)

And yes, again, SOME of these ideas WERE drawn off of Heavy-Duty. I just think I could improve it. Tell me what you think.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 23:40

Starlinvf

I always imagined the inside

I always imagined the inside of the Core being a bright white plane, with almost no map features. The area itself would be of limited size, whose edges will wrap around and meet each other, effectively making it spherical in nature, but still appear flat to the players. Keep walking to the right, and you'll eventually come up on the left side of the team. Its a mechanic I haven't seen used since the 16-bit era.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 17:04

Heavy-Duty

SOMEONE READ MY IDEAS!!!!! :D

Yeah... I barely tried to think of any other Gremlins and I LOVE these ideas too. OH! And by the way, if you didn't notice, the levels leading to the Core Battle have every family of monster, to add challenge, not just Gremlins, which actually do appear on every level preceding the final battle. Glutenous Gates are jelly, the Gladiator's watev is mainly beast, the maze is Fiend and Undead, and so on and so forth. And by overpowered, you actually didn't complain about the boss battle here? I wanted to see how he was overpowered (Ironically, we got a guy in my forum post saying it would be too easy)

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 17:10

Orangeo

Perfect oppourtunity. This is

Perfect oppourtunity.
This is T4;
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/28808#comment-172066

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 20:52

Heavy-Duty

...

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 22:36

Cpt-Malashenko

@Heavy-Duty

Well, I'm glad you didnt rage at me for 'stealing your ideas' like some other people would do. Lol

Also, by overpowered, I half-ment the monsters. In your post, IMO, the lumbers are a little too much to have 2 arms. For kats, they barely stop charging in T3 anyway, so yeah. The boss fight with King Tinkinzar was very well thought of, but a little to many stages, otherwise it would be a perfect endgame boss, but we don't want to hear people complain that he takes too long, right? And, I thought about a mini-boss (Crimson Order Commander) and I thought it was a shame to just let a boss so underrated as Roarmulus go bye bye, so I included them too.

But man, that boss fight you came up with is pretty epic. I gotta give you Kudos on that one, but I would like to see bits of the stages that are repeating or unnecessary replaced, but it seems pretty interesting.

I would have posted this onto your thread, but I'm afraid that it will take up too much spce.

This makes my day, since I am in a good mood ever since I got my Nightblade upgrade for my brandish about 10 mins ago...

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 22:46

Heavy-Duty

Some fixing...

I love the pre-boss idea. But why Roarmulus there while you could battle them in their last phase in the battle with Tinkinzar? Lumbers- how can they get any better? I love those guys, and i think 2 arms could be a good challenge, or even a small-scuttlebot blast instead. Oh well, lets try to rethink some enemies later. What pieces of the boss battle do you think is unnnecessarry? I wanted the boss-battle to deliver as much as an end-game boss could give, for those who think Vana is a breeze. The long battle creates a real-world challenge of patience, which really affects the game. A bunch of angry knights want to finish him off. That's what sometimes happens with Vanarunners, why not with Tinkan?
For the commander, instead of Roarmulus, he summons his own mini-mecha Tinkan's subordinates have, except he's a granadier? how about that? continue to post please!!!

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 22:56

Cpt-Malashenko

Well...

See, as you go deeper into the complex, didnt i mention Ironclaw technicians working on something?

The commander wanted the twins up and running again, and they were, only they had shields guarding them. The commander grew desperate at seeing his troops fail and himself badly beaten, he decided to use Roarmulus prematurely, meanwhile in King Tinki, he summons a world where its like a nightmare, and you relive the so called 'toughest battles you encountered' on the way to his palace. The virtual world is a flashback, while the repaired twins are just something the commander uses to try to slow you down.

I think that the part where he uses his shield is the least important, so you could take that out, and the multiple times that his mechas/generals try to kill you is a bit repetitive, you could change something for each to spice it up a bit so that each encounter is different. Also, I think Stage 10 can be changed to that he is not accustomed to the light, so he can be knocked backwards in this battle. You try to knock him back into the hole, while he fights back. THIS should be the easiest stage.

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 23:01

Cpt-Malashenko

Oh, and also

The commander DOES summon mechas, I've discussed it with my friend who also plays SK at school. I just havent posted them yet. See, I said to him that when Roarmulus pops up, so do 4x Mechas that are invulerable to all attacks until you kill the commander, and then the shields protecting them power down, (and so does Roarmulus) giving you enough time to deal with these 'Storm-mecha Troopers'. Then the victory theme plays.

I should really be going to sleep now though, It's 11:00 PM here and I have an english test tomorrow, but thanks for the great feedback!

Thu, 10/13/2011 - 23:20

Heavy-Duty

WOW same time here...

Okay... phase 10 is easiest phase then by... wait.. didn't you see that Tinkinzar breaks out on the dark side of Cradle? Did i mention that? So double battle with Roarmulus? Somehow, all generals should be dead by the end, so how do we fix that? I actually wnat the nightmare phase to be IN the boss battle, nto something leading up to it. Also, why should the commander, the miniboss, die first before his subordinates do, or can we have a shielder that protects them instead of making the footsoldiers unable to be attacked until the commander dies? more issues tommorrow, tonight gotta finish this HW and sleep..... anyone have other comments, too?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 11:15

#10

Floipd

Updates that come with tier 4

Snarbolax armor

Would look insane since Snarbolax looks insanely awesome too, and u could finally use up all of your Snarbie tokens. Make it a little more expensive than the rest of Snarb's gear, and you got yourselves a new hype. Also i think that it is just fun to have even more gear. Wouldn't it be a good excuse to make even more gear?

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 20:27

#11

Cpt-Malashenko

Well actually,

Yeah, I reread your post, and I think that in this stage he should be stunned. (Concussions from all those floors he crashed through.)

Still think that it should be easiest stage.

Oh and, I didn't mean to change the nightmare world's placement, I just described the differences. And the generals... what do you mean by fix that?
If by fix you mean by making it less repetitive, then I suggest them having more attacks depending on the stages.

Well, yeah, I think that when he summons Roarmulus, he should be really desperate, and Yes, I do believe that his subordinates should shield him, but then that would be way too easy. I think that having the unbeatable subordinates try to stop you from hurting the commander is slightly more fun than trying to kill a mender that just stands still...

But yea. Oh, and @ Floipd-I think that Wolver line is already very similar to the Snarbie line. The most I would vote on it is a re-skin of it, making it black and red. I wouldn't recommend that it would be a completely new set, but perhaaps you can buy the t4 version without having to craft through it with, lets say, 200 snarby tokens.

Fri, 10/14/2011 - 22:59

#12

Marazo

These are very good ideas but

These are very good ideas but whenever I see some idea about the "core" or "Tier 4" (btw i strongly hate the name Tier 4, cuz it doesnt make sense, the core seems a lot different than the tiers, and should be called "the core") I go FACEPALM*. Now does everybody think that ALL the devs are just sitting around, stuffing in things to the game? NO! i mean they probably have some awesome plan for the core and are working on it AT THIS VERY MOMENT! There is probably a group of workers programming the stuff for the core. (btw if some random admin like Nick says "oh no we havnt touched the core at all", first of all, i would be very mad, and second, you guys would be like HAHA UR WRONG, well hey i making a logical guess here! IM NOT DISAGREEING WITH THESE IDEAS, IM SIMPLILY STATING THAT THESE THREADS ARE SOMEWHAT USELESS.
(man im on fire with opposing ideas, if u read the one about 5* shard bomb you will see)

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 11:11

#13

Heavy-Duty

Nice

Well, Marazo, these forums are partly for the fun of it, ya know, and what if Spiral Knights admins are looking at these threads to see what they would add? Who knows at what they're doing at the moment? OH and Cpt, what should replace those redundant phases of taking on the giants? (To replace, not remove). And also, shouldn't you be stunned from hitting all those floors, too? Besides, he's in a giant, controllable robot, probably in a cockpit. And for Marazo, again.... err.... It would be confusing to people to say T1, T2, T3, then Core, and anyways, I'm referring to a series of levels below the standard 3 tiers, so it could basically be called whatever. Admins DO check these threads, and could add whatever they please, even huge projects they've been working on for maybe even months, but these are just wishlists of players that may be read or never seen by a Dev, so oh well.
Cpt, what about using the tokens for Tinkinzar- Core Essence. Somehow, we need to find certain weapons (MUST BE BALANCED!) and armors that could be for this tier. I'm thinking of a weak-damaging wand that could heal your friends while your trying to dodge every enemy (4 star?) that deals elemental damage on foes when not charged, but a mix of elemental, shadow, and piercing when charged, but the hit is weak, and it does not upgrade.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 15:49

#14

Byrnius

Well...

If we are going to call it Tier 4, it'd better not be treated like a separate Tier in itself. I mean, I'd love to battle the Crimson Order and see the nastiest, meanest creatures that roam the Clockworks, from Vog to Tinkinzar and such, but a whole new tier would then push the limits of SK arsenals, making your neat Divine Avenger into something weak... We should treat Tier 4 as an expansion to Tier 3, not as a whole different one with different stratums.

The Core should be no deeper to explore than one, non-changing stratum, like if it were just one more depth to Tier 3.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 16:57

#15

Cpt-Malashenko

@Byrnius

Well, I actually do think that Divine Avenger is OP anywas... Plus, there is the Outer core and Inner core. And such.

Sat, 10/15/2011 - 22:49

#16

Buzz-Bomb

King Tinkinzar

Most think the king is in the core, I do too. Would be cool to fight a bunch of gremlins then a super gremlin boss.

Mon, 10/17/2011 - 17:24

#17

Cpt-Malashenko

@Heavy-Duty

Sorry for not posting in a while...

But yeah... I guess so that you are also stunned... but oh well. How's this? Since the King is in a giant mech's cockpit, and he himself is not damaged, his mech is. So how bout he takes shock damage while you guys are stunned for the entire stage which will only last like 1 min.

Oh, and I also think that the part where he flies and you kill the turrets is redundant.

But anyhow, the generals probably can do something else apart from their usual attacks, maybe, in later stages? Maybe the thwacker general can summon reinforcements, the bomber general can call in mortar strikes similar of the Roarmulus Twin's mortar strikes? And the scorcher general maybe calls in an airstrike that napalms the area and can set you on fire?

And yes, i think Core essence is a decent name, but I was thinking more along the lines of "Radiant Shards--Emitting massive amounts of energy, there is no surprise that only a few of these can power King Tinkinzar's mecha."

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:52

#18

Xxpapaya

Very good idea.........BUT

I love this idea, I always wanted something beyond tier 3 and here's the perfect idea:D Only one problem that I find, obviously the lower you go into the Clockworks the harder the mobs get, right? In tier 3 even pro people are dying like flies on a toad, in tier 4......Its just too funny to think about. Maybe to add to this idea there could be 5 star equipment? (1000ce to craft any 5 star)Oh yeah one more thing, in tier 4 (if your idea manages to make its way into SK)there should be 2 terminals, or else people would be dying even more. Perhaps like an ant underneath the foot of an elephant or a fish that jumped into a toaster..........

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 14:57

#19

Cpt-Malashenko

@Xxpapaya

Well, you see, I die all the time in FSC (BECAUSE OF THE FRIKING WHEEL THINGS), but I don't rage about it. But yes, I agree, that people die all the time in T3. However, have you ever seen those elite videos of people doing Vanaduke runs in 5 minutes with no exploits? This tier is designed to be a challenge for everybody, and I don't want to see a single person in the world who would say, "I can do King Tink solo in 7 minutes." :P

But the biggest difference in my version are the constructs and the gremlins. Nothing else is really that much more difficult (Although you could argue that Blast Cubes that explode without warning could also be OP, but still...) apart from the Gremlins. Keep in mind that I just focused on the Crimson Order and OOO can do whatever they want with the other trash monsters.

Instead of what you suggested (2 terminals) How about the first of the Final Five levels has a complete HP refill? That's basically the Terminal without the useless items that you don't need to buy anymore because anything Basil sells is everything from 2* to 5*... So basically a HP refill at the beginning of the Crimson Order maps?

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 15:20

#20

Khamsin

Roarmulus was already brought

Roarmulus was already brought back in the ultimate dungeons. Think of something else.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 15:25

#21

Cpt-Malashenko

@Khamsin

What are you talking about?

What's ultimate dungeons? I thought that the idea for the improvement of a damaged roarmulus was pretty good...

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 15:28

#22

Khamsin

Test server. The twins have

Test server. The twins have been improved. More scuttle bots, menders, more deadly missiles. Some sort of aura of corruption that slows you down.

I like the idea for a gremlin themed piece of content between the ultimates and the true core, but fighting the twins three times would be overkill.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 15:34

#23

Cpt-Malashenko

Oh... that's what it is

Well yeah... Just so you know the twins in this battle don't have all their previous abillites, such as the laser sweep and 8 rockets. All they have in this battle are to fire 2 rockets (the other 6 are supposedly jammed) and do the mortar thing where they launch bombs at you.

Keep in mind that you are not trying to beat roarmulus in this battle. Just think of them as an improved version of those rocket-launcher tiles found everywhere in the Ironclaw Munitions Factory. They're just a background hazard that you don't actually beat and kill.

Oh, also on the Roarmulus Twins boss map, didn't you notice as you were walking towards the boss room that there were like 6 spares of Roarmulus that were built?

Did I mention that they look heavily damaged? You're not going to fight them anyways.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 16:27

#24

Juances

All i want to suggest is

All i want to suggest is that, since we are so close to the center of the core, all creatures get irradiated with energy, making them naturally restant to everything and making all their damage neutral(maybe a new 'special damage' type that cant be defended).

This is just because i don't want to hear people arguing about X armor is better, X weapon is usseless, etc.
Plus it'd mean that your alchemy path wouldn't actually matter and everyone has the same survival chances, making skills more important.

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 18:40

#25

Heavy-Duty

Well...

The problem with your idea, Juances, is the complete disability of the stats some items have as advantages over others, which is primarily the reason people get those weapons, unless they're in for the looks. HOWEVER I like the irradiated monsters. How about... err.... I don't know... But I don't wants to nerf every weapon to make another weapon as good as the other, which has been definately chosen and built up to get to that height. What about the "Aura of Corruption" the new Roarm Ultimate has? Keep bringing up new ideas!

Tue, 10/18/2011 - 23:13

#26

Cpt-Malashenko

Irradiated Monsters

How about that you cant inflict any status effects on them and that they react quickly and do more damage?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 21:59

#27

Heavy-Duty

New bosses in!

The red roarmulus gave me ideas.... while there is shock, and now fire, how about the gremlin Commander has a freezing Roarmulus duo, since there is a huge lineup of giant gunpuppies in the level before you fight the twins already? Diamond Roarmulus Twins? And for the boss battles-nightmare phase... do we include the Shadow monsters? Or is the "Shadow" irradiated? Is the core below Anti-Shadow... Or elemental???? HMMM...... Any suggestions?

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Tier 4: Into the Core