I reckon we should be aloud pets in spiral knights, just fairly little ones, they'd level up via heat, and die when we die, if they die w/o us dying, we simply go over to them and revive them (hopefully w/o energy). They shouldn't do too much damage or they'd be overpowered, but they should do a bit of damage. I'd get a Snarbolax or a Wolver, I mean, how awesome would that be? if they run wild or if you want to call them to help you, there would be a button you'd press which would call them to you, i dont know, maybe you could wolf whistle and they come to you. If you could have a pet, what'd it be? It'd be really awesome if they put this idea into action!
Spiral Pets
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 01:20
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 03:06
#2
Constructor Series
My idea is actually strategic:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/30230
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:17
#3
it would be so bad with the
it would be so bad with the power levels if you were able to level and control the power levels e.g. each pet has a set power level like swords ect. so they can be increase/decrease depending on tier/level of player if that makes any sence
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:35
#4
i want one.
i want them too. it'd be awesome having a wolver to follow you around and fight for you. obviously, youd have other animals too. why do some people think its a bad idea? if they dont want 8 people, meaning youd have 4 knights all with pets in the cloakwork then at least meake it so you can have them when your solo. they should defianantly be permanent as well, meaning, not go like mecha knights or trinket slots. i hope they doo make pets. obviously they wont be using swords, theyd fight and act like animals in the clockworks. though they could have aromour and inflict status problems to enemies.
whats wrong with this version of the idea? let me know and ill sort it out. i really want a animal gaurdian that is ALWAYS there, unlike mecha knights. that never suffers from engineering problems, unlike mecha knights, AND, that you can choose its colour and name to give it characteristics.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:46
#5
its not a problem if you listen.
if theres a problem that it will be too strong or to weak then make sure its just right starlinvf.
it would be different depending on your knight, or its gear or something else hobbzy.
and one more thing, if you dont want a pet, fine. but why cant it exist for the people that do want it. if its a problem it existing in your game then make it so that their only up and about when WE are playing solo. it will be bought and eqiuped too our knight and automatically appear on when we are solo. on our own. i dont mind that, it wont affect you any more, everyone wins.
so please can you just let us have it.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:02
#6
maybe this
What if you could bulid you own Mecha Knight and give it items u dont want like shields swords and trinkets and you build it out of mats you find in the clockworks.
Or You could buy one with ce or cr
and it could help you with pvp.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:34
#7
pets include all monsters,
pets include all monsters, gremlins, bats, everythin except larger monsters or bosses. you would get mecha-knights too. when you buy it should stay with you, when its defeated it can wrind up in your pocket or something, (wolver), or in bag as parts, (mecha knight). or something else. i want to make sure that they always stay unlike mecha-knights found in the clockworks, and unlike trinket slots.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:13
#8
Raising Pets
I think you should be able to raise their stats by feeding them or giving them equipment. Here is how I think it should be:
Constucts: you could get extra parts, equipment, and the like, to change their stats. You could also change them into, say, a shock type by giving enough shock type mats.
Beasts(all bats included): you would feed them certain mats,(such as jelly cores, the Zee Core would be super special) and also would be able to create certain foods.(such as apples, waffles, and jelly bowls)(this is a REAL recipe :P) Feeding would up stats, as well as make them like you more.
Gremlins: it would just be equips. They could be the most intelligent of all, but you would have to pay them.(maybe you hire them for a week)
Develites: you could feed them and promote them. You have to give a money(or a mat) to promote them, and they would only stay promoted for a set time.
Undead: Ummm...............???????(I don't know how this would work)
Slimes: just absorbs mats that are given.
I think you should be able to have pets compete with other peoples'. They could race, have duels, and possibly help in the clock works.
I wonder if OOO will ever do anything about pets. There are so many suggestions cropping up.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:43
#9
i say they should be
i say they should be customisable like our knights, which they should be bound to completly but may have their name or colour changed.
they should have the following gear;
1-Helmet- defense gear
2-Armour- defense gear
3-Status drive- enables the pet to inflict status conditions, drives come in weak, strong, long, short and so on
there will only be 3 gear types to ensure that pets are still weaker than knights, but will still be strong enough to be usefull in the clockworks. the fact they are completly bound will ensure we dont end up selling them, this would be like selling a actuall knight. but should still be able to be purchased from a pet merchant.
if they do have to contain levels, maybe it should be a level of how much they trust us, so our knights affect them more.
A stronger knight, a stronger pet.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:51
#10
they should...
they should look like normal monsters, just be slightly smaller to make them cute. they should also have a chosen colour, maybe a entir choice of patterns. And to make them espicially unique, a name.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:17
#11
I agree with sizuki that they
I agree with sizuki that they should be mini versions of normal monsters. They should have equipment slots as follows:
Weapon 1
Armor
Armor Costume
Helmet
Helmet Costume
Shield
They should have mini equipment of what their owner is carrying (if the owner is carrying more than one weapon, they should have the first weapon as their weapon).
They should take up 1 "pet" slot (costs 500 ce and lasts 30 days or 3000 ce and lasts forever - sorry had to put it in ce otherwise if OOO put this idea into action they would convert it into ce anyway because all upgrades at the moment are bought with ce).
You should only be allowed up to two pet slots.
They should also be able to carry certain accessories.
When their owner's health bar is 3 or under, they should protect the owner. Otherwise they should attack other monsters.
They should have special stats like:
ATT: /100 (boosted by heat or pet food)
DEF: /100 (boosted by heat or pet food)
SPD: /100 (boosted by heat or pet food)
STA: /100 (boosted by heat or pet food)
INT: /100 (boosted by heat or pet food)
The pet food should be:
150 cr - Minor pet food (+1 stats distributed randomly)
600 cr- Standard pet food (+3 stats distributed randomly)
900 cr -Big pet food (+5 stats distributed how owner wants it to be distributed)
1500 cr -Huge pet food (+10 stats distributed how owner wants it to be distributed)
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:15
#12
i forgot about costumes
i would add the costume ideas, pets will be more like our knights. though a wolver with a sword does not seem quite so good, perhaps swords can go with mecha-knights, some kind of tooth cap for a wolver, a modified tongue for chameleons, bats a modified wing set, e.t.c.
as for the food ideas, food could be droped from monsters in the clockworks or treasure box's. could alter pets trust level. different foods can perhaps work better for the right kind of animal.
e.g.- a cat, a fish or something similar
perhaps it should also be possible to buy them from the pet merchant, of which im hoping the pets will come from. or a new section in the auction house.
i believe pets should be like companions to knights, and should therefore be like them. a knights strength comes from his gear, so could the animal.
i like the idea of protecting the owner when he/she is low on health. the idea of them carrying something gives the idea that they should be able to carry a single item like vials, health capsules, e.g. and be able to use them.
i think a pets slot should be limited to one, but if the slot does have to be temporary, (i hope its not), then there should be the option to buy it permanently (possibly cheaper than above). pets should either be bought for ce (500) or cr (25,000), the slots themselves should be permanent and free. its annoying having to buy something to actually use another, which kind of ruins the point. It will espicially ruin having pets, should be more fun, less of a chore.
I would prefer it to be permanent once the animal is actually bought. to remain with you like a true friend would. thats what they are for.
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:10
#13
I agree with you Sizuki, the
I agree with you Sizuki, the problem is i do not know if OOO will allow us to have cheap permanent pet slots. It is like weapon/trinket slots, i would like a permanent one but i think they want us to spend lots of ce on them. Another problem is that OOO would probably put the price too high because everyone would want one.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 01:07
#14
Supporting Topic
I would buy a pet... Furthermore, it would be in OOO's best interest to incorporate pets for more profit. Hopefully it happens in the NEAR future...
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 01:17
#15
Personally, I think it ought
Personally, I think it ought be an orb that takes up a weapon slot and let's you summon a pet, much like how insta-make a mecha knight from a kit.
I would like to keep it's stats simple as well as making it a * weapon. You could get the initial one from a pet trader. Brinks might have others, as well as "recipes" for raising your pet to become stronger. Each pet would have a normal/elemental line. You'd upgrade in the same manner as the weapons. It's health would increase for each time you make it stronger as well as it's attack.
However, it wouldn't be able to deal much damage, and might also serve to grab goodies for you. It might also be able to add hearts. I'd say to balance it, it would need some of your health to work. Or perhaps a certain number of mats for one summon. Heck, it would make for a good mat sink, if anything.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 01:48
#16
OOO?
whos OOO? if OOO doesnt make the slot permanent then it really spoils it. i can see where trinket slots and extra weapon slots are coming from, but a pet wouldnt fit it. if it does have to be bought from a slot, then give the option to buy it permanently. cryoworld's idea of it taking up a weapon slot is a good one, but you have to switch to it to use. should take up a weapon slot, but then exist anyway even if your using another weapon. shouldnt be like summoning to me.
Or how about this, the slot is free for when you go solo, but you have to buy a usable item it to join others and still have a pet. fair deal i think.
And i really hope pets do come into the game.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 02:01
#17
I'm seeing all this
I'm seeing all this discussion on the RPG aspects, and decking them out... granted is the most fun part of it, but no one has properly addressed combat mechanics yet.
@Sizuki: Consider the Mecha Knight... this is the only AI-controlled friendly unit in the game. Unless you count the Love puppy (I still think hes secretly trying to heal you to death... very diabolical really). Anyway. The MechaKnight's power isn't all that bad, but its heavily offset by having almost 1/4th the attack speed of a player. Defensively its also pretty sturdy, but its extremely bad at defending itself or avoiding attacks. Behaviorally, its driven by 3 basic rules (yes, I get the reference)...
1. Attack any monster if it within range. And this range is very short.
2. If there is nothing to attack, follow the closest Knight.
3. Shield when a gun attack enters its perimeter. (Doesn't even have to deal damage either. They WILL block with friendly shots... you can even use that to an advantage.)
Rule B. I'm not even sure if this counts a real behavior since it doesn't change how it does anything else..... but shock yourself at random intervals.
Rule C. Get really close to a Knight and give them an electric hug.
Now consider how players use MechaKnights in combat? The answer.... as a "strategic distraction". You never expect them to survive long in an encounter, especially in T3, and they can't output damage fast enough to 1v1 more then a couple monsters, much less a small group. We deploy them in instances where we need to keep a group of enemies busy for a few seconds while the rest deal with a bigger threat. And they will, without hesitation, charge in headfirst into any battle, no matter how badly outnumbered, or how much damage walking into Firesouls will do to it. They are unable to make or even respond to tactical choices, and couldn't protect you from anything except a handfull of smaller slimes.
So now that we thought about Mechaknights and its mechanics, how will the Pets be the same or different? What will its damage output be like? Will a Knight have to give up DPS in order to have one? How do you control target selection? How long would they be expected to be in combat for? Are they able to survive more then a few hits? Can you deploy pets more then once in a level? Can you tactically control them if they have a continuous presence? How would you expect them to behave in a boss fight? What if every Knight brought a pet to the fight? Should pets affect the HP total of enemies? Should pets have special abilities? What kind of abilities? How would it affect combat? If they're putting this much work into how pets operate, would development need to reexamine combat mechanics and difficulty balance due to they're inclusion? Or would they be so ineffective in combat that they would be just a variation of the MechKnights we have now?
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 02:04
#18
-1
I would rather do my fighting. Pets and mechas and noobs just mess up the run. I'd rather not have something that follows me around at all.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 04:10
#19
Listen
if you think its messing up the fighting fine, but then you DONT HAVE to have it. but for those people who do want it they can. everyone wins.
just because you dont like something, doesnt mean you should spoil it for other people. if its going to annoy you, make it so people can only use pets when we are solo. it should definantly exist though.
@Starlinvf- think of pets as a secondary knight, that is computer controlled. agreed, a love puppy might be unfair, but then we will simply not have that one.
it will be same as they fight for you.
but different as they will not die and dissapear, that they cant go any further than a single level, and the fact you can change their looks and names means you will be making your own helpfull friend, adding some more character to knights. more so than accessorys.
they are obviously going to be stronger then actuall mecha-knights, wont suffer a spaz attack for a start. their health and attack will be altered to tiers just like our knights and gear. mecha-knights will have shields to avoid damage, wolvers will swing around behind enemies, chameleons will jump to the side and so on for each animal type.
they arent deployed, they are bought in haven, and eqiupped to the knight. ready to go in a tier. one animal at a time can be eqiupped, they dont ever vanish they stay with your kight for ever. when they are defeated they end up in your pocket or something, you can revive them by clicking their tab and reviving them with either health or energy, or when your knights health is full and you walk over a heart the heart is added onto their empty health bar. health pads would also work.
their power will depend on eqiupment;
-helmet
-armour
-status drive
-weapon (sword for mecha-knight, tooth cap for a wolver, spikes for a jelly)
- they should have a kind of trust bar, which allows you to perform more orders and behaviour choices (see below), this could be affected by time fighting together and foods and treats.
the control over them will be done by the computer, perhaps a tab will allow you to issue specific orders and behaviour modes, like protect, stay, follow, hide, aggresive and so on.
maybe different abilities for many animals, acting as a charge attack,
-for a mech, a charge attack like the ones they already use with staus's.
-for a chameleon, the ability to dissapear and catch the enemy by suprise.
-for a cat, the skill to fire at enemies from a distance.
-for a wolver, a series of attacks like wolver pack leaders already do.
Ordinary should no longer reqiure a charge, should be straight away like a normal sword attack.
They will not be like mecha-knights, they are customisable, namable, stratgic and are permanent. you will have a entirly new selection of armours and gear for them, adding a expansive variety of choices in the game.
Pets will have use and purpose, they do more than serve our knights, they add to them. which is why they should be brought into the game.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 05:15
#20
@Sizuki: think of pets as a
@Sizuki: think of pets as a secondary knight
This statement right there is where the whole situation is made complicated. Your confusion between stats and character depth aside, the system your describing is a clear DPS boost with little or no limiting factors when used in combat. This is exactly what I am trying to get people to think about, because something like this can break the game on a very simple level. And because there is no clear disadvantage in its use, you MUST assume everyone will have one in every run from now on, and rebalance the monster stats to take that into account. Failure to do so would make combat a breeze by virtue of sheer DPS.
Zephyrgon constructor idea is an interesting approach (keep working with it. Your off to a better start then most), but its still flawed in the fact that the pets are autonomous once summoned. Thats the same problem I'm seeing here. Take that autonomous element out, and make it an actively controlled creature that literally replaces a weapon, then you might be able to add it without huge overarching balance concerns.
And for the record, I'm not against the concept of Pets in general. But I defiantly don't want to see combat pets added for the sake of having it, or tacked on to the combat mechanics because they couldn't be buggered to properly integrate it into the game design. I don't know how many of you have ever heard of rappelz (korean MMO), but they deployed a pet system (poorly) on top of the combat mechanics with very lack luster results due to balance issues. Being a point and click action RPG, the game relied heavily on Aggro and DPS as the core of its combat mechanics. This became a huge problem because the pets themselves were treated as another player, and given a set of active skills that could either adjust aggro, self buff, or spike DPS, but had nowhere near the stats needed to survive if they were directly attacked over their owner. Since pets also followed the same leveling and XP death penalty rules as players, and the exp scale was exponential, having a pet die on accident was a huge setback. Pets were pushed into use as secondary DPS output, and all but a few debuff and healing skills were completely unused. The only exception to this was a Red Pixie (essentially a mini-mage) that could output DPS like no tomorrow, but had to be used with a delay or it would steal aggro from the tank and get itself killed. There was no strategic value behind their use other then the simple DPS they added to the party.... and thats all anyone could do with them.
During the next major revamp, they completely redefined pet roles in combat through changing skills and stats rather then change the combat mechanics. The new synergistic theme centered around a central buff that was shared between both pet and owner, and redid all the pet skills to make them more of a secondary character following specific themes. The DPS role was still there, but skills were laid out in a way that a normal character skill tree would work... including optimal build strategies. Overall it was a huge improvement over the old system, but it never addressed the original problem of pets essentially being tacked on to a combat system that treats them as another player character. There was no conceivable advantage of not having one, and rarity played a huge role in effectiveness, but thats getting into different argument.......
The tl;dr point being is, if the only role pets are gonna play is mindless DPS, why bother? It doesn't make combat any more interesting, and it makes the idea of including pet equipment and stats just another thing to spend time and money on "customizing" no more meaningful then just another set of armor make.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 05:32
#21
I think pets should
not exist.
Trololo
And I just agree with starlivnf.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 06:09
#22
How about
How about this, you could upgrade your pet/mecha knight to have faster attack speed and better wepons. or you could hire a AI controlled spiral knight to help you, you could pay him 500 cr a day or something like that.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 06:37
#23
its adding character by
its adding character by creating one. and for once, listen.
I never said summoning. its not a mecha knight. its a addition of options. its weaker then a knight, but is still usefull. so, it, has, Purpose and usefull in combat.
And the fact your saying it wont make much difference in combat makes me think theres nothing else you care about in spiral knights.
Pets would add more soul to this game as well as everything else, you may not care about the character much, but i do, along with many other people.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 06:40
#24
Xplad, if you dont like the
Xplad, if you dont like the idea of it being your game doesnt mean it cant be in ours.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 07:31
#25
Your misinterpreting what I
Your misinterpreting what I meant by summon... and still completely missing the argument at hand. What your suggesting is having a 4-man team have the DPS equivalent of 6 Knights without changing any other factors in combat. If you can't see whats wrong with that picture, then your not going to understand what I'm trying to point out.
And your still confusing the context of the term "character". I'll chalk it up to a language barrier, but when I see "character", I think personality, visual flavor, and general depth of the person your playing. The way your using it, it sounds like pets will add depth like accessories on armor, but its main purpose is to fight for you in battle. To say something adds character, when the primary factor in selecting a pet is based on simple functional decisions, like "using a construct pet on slime level because it has good piecing defense"... is like saying "he must be a very kind person because he a has a 40ft tall pet dragon".
I have a really hard time taking that idea seriously, when 90% of the decision on what your gonna pick is based on something rooted in basic math.
if you dont like the idea of it being your game doesnt mean it cant be in ours.
Assuming any of the ever made it into the game, there will NEVER be 2 versions following different concepts. Whatever gets put in, we all have to live with it... so you can't simply dismiss someone's idea and tell them for "fork it".
Everyone knows I'm a harsh critic on almost everything that passes through here, and I've had my share of really bad ideas as well. So when someone (or several people for that matter) points out a flaw in that idea, you need to really think about the idea itself and how its being presented. If you still think something is a good idea, you should be able to explain those merits, show why those flaws are not an issue, or refine the idea further and explain the effect of those revisions to others. The main reason I haven't put up my own sample idea is because I haven't worked out all the obvious problems with the system... and functional pets are rarely simple to implement if it wasn't already part of the core game design.
Sun, 10/23/2011 - 07:24
#26
i suppose. but pets will
i suppose. but pets will help, say you want to go solo to get more out of tiers, like crowns, e.t.c., they will make sure your not alone, but still make sure you get everything out of the level.
Think of it this way.... what if you had 4 Mecha knights wandering around with the equivalent of proto gear...... thats what it would be like.
Cosmetic pets are one thing, but functional pets change a lot about how combat mechanics work. Too powerful and they upset game balance, too weak and they become a liability like a noob entering FSC for the first time.