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Multi Slot Power Weapons Occupying Not Just Weapon Slots

6 replies [Last post]
Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:25
Master-Of's picture
Master-Of

The basic idea is, to have extremely powerful weapons, that occupy multiple slots to balance them out.

Some of them could occupy the shield slot and one or more weapon slots, so you cant shield when they are equipped (and the shield key binding could do some special move).
Some could occupy the armor slot and one or more weapon slots, because they represent some kind of an armed suit.
Some could occupy the helmet slot and one or more weapon slots, because they represent a weapon system integrated into a special helmet.

You can only combine them, if their equipment slots don't conflict.

Here are some examples:

The Rocket Launcher would be some huge tube with a handle and occupies the shield slot and 2, 3 or 4 weapon slots. Every weapon slot represents a preset kind of rocket. So, if you have Weapon Slot Upgrades in use, you will unlock up to 2 extra rocket types. The shield key binding toggles carrying the Rocket Launcher on your back or having it ready for use on your shoulder. When it's ready for use on your shoulder your movement speed decreases. You can choose a type of rocket with the weapon switch bindings. The attack binding would fire a rocket and then have a reloading delay/animation. The charged attack would fire several rockets in a row. Types of rockets would be elemental, piercing, fire and shadow.

The Twin Blades would be two small swords and occupy the shield slot and 2 weapon slots. Every weapon slot represents a different preset attack move. One would be a fast hit that combos nicely and one would be a powerful double swing. One charge attack would similar to Cutter/Striker and the other would be an even more powerful forward swipe. The shield key binding would either be using both swords crossed to block (taking damage and breaking like a shield) or a backflip dodge.

The Heavy Battle Axe would be a huge two handed weapon and occupies the shield slot and one weapon slot. Its a powerful stun inflicting weapon and you can't shield when its equipped. You can carry additional weapons and when you switch to another weapon, the Heavy Battle Axe is worn on your back, thus protecting your back from attacks (like the Darkfang Thwacker Gremlins back is protected by a shield or like the Trojans front is invulnerable). However, it won't protect you, when you switch to it.

The Ground Shaker would be a massive bomb that's carried on the back, so it occupies the shield slot and one weapon slot. You can't shield while it's equipped. It does all types of damage (i.e. normal, piercing, elemental and shadow), knocks back, stuns and inflicts poison, shock and fire. Charging it takes ages and you can't move while charging. So it's practically useless without a party that protects you.

The Power Suit occupies an armor slot and 2 or 3 weapon slots. Since it's equipped in place of an armor and has lower defense values than usual 5 star armor, it's powerful attacks are balanced out. Every weapon slot represents a different preset attack move. The attacks are melee attack combos. Weapon slot 1 would be a fast combo attack and weapon slot 2 a slow, but powerful attack. An active Weapon Slot Upgrade would unlock a throw in slot 3, that catches an enemy, stuns it and knocks it back behind the knight. The charge attacks would be a jetfire accelerated forward tackle, a shockwave (that throws back and inflicts shock on enemies and possibly the knight himself) and for the 3rd slot a forward jump that will catch an enemy, crushing it between the arms of the Power Suit.

The Basilisk Helmet occupies the helm slot and one weapon slot. Since it's equipped in place of a helm and has lower defense values than usual 5 star helms, it's powerful attack is balanced out. Its basic attack is a continuous laser beam that does repeatedly a small bit of elemental damage and inflicts stun and sleep. It has no charge attack, because it's continuous, i.e. it fires as long as you hold down the attack button and stops when you release.

From these above examples you would only be able to equip the following combinations, because of slot conflicts:

  • Rocket Launcher exclusively
  • If you have one Weapons Slot Upgrade in use: Basilisk Helmet and Twin Blades
  • Basilisk Helmet and Heavy Battle Axe
  • Basilisk Helmet and Ground Shaker
  • If you have 2 Weapons Slot Upgrades in use: Basilisk Helmet and Power Suit

Alternatively, if OOO decides to make optionally occupied slots (usually activated through Weapons Slot Upgrades) be replaced by required slots of another Multi Slot Power Weapon, these combinations are valid, too, but with less attacks available and use of one or two Weapons Slot Upgrades:

  • Basilisk Helmet and Power Suit, with just 2 attacks of the Power Suit available, but just one Weapon Slot Upgrade in use.
  • Basilisk Helmet, Heavy Battle Axe and Power Suit, with just 2 attacks of the Power Suit available.
  • Basilisk Helmet, Ground Shaker and Power Suit, with just 2 attacks of the Power Suit available.
  • Rocket Launcher and Power Suit, with just 2 attacks of the Power Suit and 2 rocket types of the Rocket Launcher available.
  • Twin Blades and Power Suit, with just 2 attacks of the Power Suit available.
  • Heavy Battle Axe and Power Suit, with just 2 or 3 attacks of the Power Suit available.
  • Ground Shaker and Power Suit, with just 2 or 3 attacks of the Power Suit available.
  • Combinations with ordinary weapons, replacing optionally occupied weapon slots, would be possible.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 03:48
#1
Master-Of's picture
Master-Of
Vindicator Auto Gun

Heres another example:
The Vindicator Auto Gun, which occupies a shield slot and two weapon slots. The shield key binding toggles carrying it on your back or having it set up on the ground ready for use. If it is set up on the ground ready for use, you can't walk, but you can turn around 360 degrees. You basically become a machine gun turret. Its basic attacks are a continuous hailstorm of normal damage bullets with knockback or piercing damage bullets on the 2nd weapon slot. It has no charge attack, because it fires continuously as long as you hold down the attack button and stops when you release it.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 04:29
#2
Niichi's picture
Niichi
Shields?

Some of them could occupy the shield slot and one or more weapon slots, so you cant shield when they are equipped (and the shield key binding could do some special move).

Everytime someone suggests a function that removes the shield from being used I feel the need to come in and point out how terrible encouraging that is. The shield is absolutely vital for survival, especially when you're in tier 3, and we do not want to be encouraging players to run around shieldless just because it offers some extra damage output.

I'm not even sure about having ones that take up the armour/helm slots. Though at least you do grant some defence values with them, can't help but feel the weapon effects could be achieved with a standalone weapon without the whole overpowered aspects.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 05:09
#3
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
@Niichi: One suggestion that

@Niichi: One suggestion that came up was to give the large weapons a health stat, allowing it to act as shield while the weapon is selected, but not replace the shield entirely. But then the question of handling defense values comes up... without extra defense stats, it would probably fail after a single hit. Add it in any significant amount, and its effectively a 2nd shield (which may or may not be a bad thing).

Back on Topic... Tying weapons to armor creates a number of problem with PvE balance, especially with defense types being so critical. Without that separation, you would either need to create 3 or 4 versions of every special class of armor, or risk pigeon holing them to certain levels. Then what to do with Split armor setups?

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 06:09
#4
Master-Of's picture
Master-Of
Niichi, it's nice of you to

Niichi, it's nice of you to try and prevent people from suiciding by not having a shield.

However, the whole point of this suggestion is to make use of "not having something absolutely vital for survival" to balance extremely powerful weapons like the bomb that does all kinds of damage types and inflicts multiple statuses (i.e. Ground Shaker from above), for example. Everyone should be able to craft or buy it, but you can't have everyone running around with an ultimate weapon that virtually kills everything, because where's the fun in that? So, if you have to choose from such an ultimate weapon or a shield, being absolutely vital for survival, at least 3 out of 4 knights should choose the shield. That way you don't have these weapons in your party, often ... and if you have more than one of them, people will stop reviving the shieldless or be wiped. Which leads to the shieldless either spending massive amounts of energy on revives or leaving/being removed.

I am well aware it takes just 2 or 3 gun puppies in tier 2 or 3 to have a deadly trap for anyone without a shield ... and that's exactly the point. It's like Autogun: People are all "Whoa, I wanna haz Autogun naow!" and when they realize they can't move nor shield while firing and they drop like flies, they see it's not so useful after all. The deeper down the clockworks, the less useful an Autogun.

Thus weapons, replacing a shield will rarely be used in tier 3. They will be tier 2 weapons. Weapons for tier 2 farming runs. Weapons for knights who want extra funzorz using exotic weaponry.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 07:07
#5
Starlinvf's picture
Starlinvf
I can bet you 100% that it

I can bet you 100% that it will not work right when you make it vital to have escorts. A well organized guild team would probably be ok, but it would be nightmare in PUGs. Its also counter productive to build a whole new class of armor thats useless beyond T2.... If you can't make it workable in T3, its a failure in design. The Swift strike buckler is a perfect example.... I loved that shield all through T2, but come T3 not only is it useless, it also set back the learning curve on fighting.

You also vastly under estimate the number of Needlers deployed in T3. Devlites are still an issue, but behind Polaris and Argent, the Needlers are the 3rd most used gun in T3.

Thu, 10/27/2011 - 07:51
#6
Master-Of's picture
Master-Of
Well, that's just like "your opinion", dude.

I have a Swiftstrike Buckler, too, and I often use it in T2 runs and rarely use it in T3 runs. I don't see where this is a problem. It's just the way the game is balanced. Everything has a downside. The more Power, the more flawed. For example:
Royal Jelly - 0 abilities; 0 flaws; 2 status resists = 2
Vog Cub - Attack Speed Increased for swords only (1); 0 flaws; Just 1 status resist = 2
... of the Fallen - Attack Speed Increased for everything (2); Damage penality vs. Fiend (-1); 2 status resists; -1 status penality = 2.

Well ... and for the Needlers in T3: They may carry the guns, but they use them rarely or they die. All Autoguns can only be used in certain situations and those situations are fewer in T3. Even in T2 a Blitz Needle is rarely of use; usually just really good vs the Chromalisk kind of monsters, Trojans and Minerals. There are far better and safer guns for everything else.

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