I did some tests on the effects of varying amounts of defense. You can read my results on my user page on the wiki, if you are interested.
Defense Tests
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 14:48
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 15:20
#2
I've read this for just 7
I've read this for just 7 seconds and I can already tell I'm going to love this. Thanks for taking the effort!
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 15:27
#3
Eh
Edit: Never mind, you're working with the summation bar with is actually dynamically generated, so that might be somewhat accurate contrary to the tool-tips.
Good work on the study though!
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 15:52
#4
Very nice analysis, I haven't
Very nice analysis, I haven't studied it in detail, but it is bar far the best explanation of the damage system that I've seen.
I'll probably comment more in the future, but I'll leave this one observation now:
I can't find my notes, so this is from recollection.
I once tested the spike traps in the training hall to see if the jelly trinkets helped at all (they didn't at the time). One of the things I noticed is that the amount of damage you take doesn't appear to be a perfect fraction of a health bar.
IIRC, each time I took damage on a spike trap, I took something like 0.38 of a health bar. This caused two red damage bars to fall off me, but sometimes I wouldn't see my health bars change at all. According to the wiki, each damage bar represent 0.25 of a health bar, but since I was seeing two drop off me, the 0.38 was being rounded up. However, since I was taking less than half a health bar of damage, I might stay at 4.5 health bars.
The only way to accurately determine how much damage each spike trap hit was taking was to average it over many hits. Fortunately, the amount of damage was small enough that I didn't run into the last stand effect.
Edit: *blush* I forgot to say *THANK YOU* for doing this analysis. It obviously took a lot of time, but it answers important questions like "is it better to have armor that protects a little against all types of damage, or have a lot of just one type".
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 15:39
#5
Zelda
i recently rolled medium and max defense uvs and was wondering why max seemed to be only twice as long
tx for sharing
im slightly disappointed at the max defense uvs now :l
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 16:17
#6
Spike Traps
@Algol-Sixty: "I once tested the spike traps in the training hall to see if the jelly trinkets helped at all (they didn't at the time). "
I would speculate that's because the training hall counts as tier 1, and everything does pure normal damage in tier 1, so piercing defense doesn't matter. You might get different results on tier 3.
Anyway, I agree damage is tracked by the game with greater precision than what the UI displays, and I discussed that in the "Methods" section.
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 17:40
#7
Thank you so much
I couldn't quite understand it all, but i'll no doubt be back to refer to it many times.
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 17:43
#8
+1
I salute you sir.
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 20:20
#9
Very nice piece of work as I
Very nice piece of work as I had expected. Maybe I can contribute something.
Predictions:
Gear ------ Defense -- Exp ------- Flat
5* Trinket 28 px ------ 6.3% ----- 0.33 bars
UV High - 35 px ------ 7.8% ----- 0.41 bars
I've had a situation (a few weeks ago) that proved that a 5* (resist) trinket is indeed less powerful than a UV: High resist, proving your prediction. The Shivermist and Voltaic Tempest bombs inflict statuses, but you can make yourself immune with an armor piece and at least a UV: high of the same resist combined.
For example, a Skolver Cap with UV: Freeze resist High will make you immune to Shivermists, but if you replace the UV with a 5* trinket you're not immune anymore. I tested this by wearing a Vog Cub coat with UV: Max shock, a Wyrmwood bracelet and said Skolver Cap with UV: freeze resist high. I can ignore Shivermists but not Voltaic tempests.
Funnily enough in the "average defense" of my knight the trinket gave more pixels worth of resist, I assume this is a bug.
Edit: A recent topic gave numbers. The number cruncher in me wants those numbers in the current games :/
Sat, 11/19/2011 - 18:50
#10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmjHT5GpAYQ
Skology (noun)/ Def- The study of the MMORPG Spiral Knights
Skologist (noun)/ Def- One who studies the MMORPG Spiral Knights
You sir have found a career *golf clap*
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 03:20
#11
this kind of things interest
this kind of things interest me, I was planning of doing some test on t2 and t3 spikes with various sets of gear , can you please tell me exactly how you misured the pixels? I wouldn't want to use a different measure of those, since it would skew results.
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 06:11
#12
@Ciopo
I'm sure there are better methods, but using paint I do this:
You set your client's resolution to the standard 1024x768, then screenshot the stats you want to count pixels on.
Open the image in paint, enable grid (ctr+g). Zoom in as far as you can on the status bar in the image, the grid should adjust to single pixels.
Use the line tool, select the thinnest line and drag it from the start point detailed in the article to the end and don't let go of the mouse button. The status bar (MSpaint's) should show you how many pixels long is it.
That image is a Vog cub/skolver combo. I have 252 px of normal defense total, but the "summary bar" tooltip shows the average over both pieces. Since vog/skolver gives 126 pixels of normal defense per piece, the "summary bar" shows 126 too. Antistone's tables show the same number.
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 07:15
#13
Right, well, here's the data
Right, well, here's the data I collected on t2 spikes, later on I'll do the same on t3 spikes because t2 data is very likely skewed due to scaling
Zone, for repeatability: amber skull gate, depth 17 arena.
pixel measured as described above, I play at 1600x1024 but I found that the windows aren't scaled, so not a problem there
sadly, I don't have a divine set ( no normal no piercing defense ) so I don't have an absolute 0 defense as control group.
Raw data below, organized as such
Equip used, pixels of defense measured, how many "pips" of damage were shown as falling from the sprite, string of health lost.
A note on the health lost: the first value of each string is taken from full hp, each subsequent value is always taken as a consecutive hit from the previous, without going in "last stand" or healing up to full, there was some healing up in between, but never to full, for the purpose of keeping the partial damage, in all cases a +12 vitapod was equipped
A note on the gear used: I had to switch various alts, so sadly I couldn't test out all combinations with trinkets, since I bought them on my main and only there I had primal sparks
set 1: proto gear, 0 heat
6 pixel of normal defense, 0 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 5-5-5-5.5-5-5-5-5.5-5-5-5-5.5
set 2: proto gear, heated to level 4
11 pixel of normal defense, 0 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5
set 3: proto gear, one fully heated, one level 4
18 pixel of normal defense, 0 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-4.5-5-4.5-5-4.5-5-4.5
set 4: proto gear, fully heated
25 pixel of normal defense, 0 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 2 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5
set 5: proto gear, one level 10 one level 4, 2* trinket with piercing defense
18 pixel of normal defense, 3 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5
set 6: proto gear, one level 10 one level 4, 4* trinket with piercing defense
18 pixel of normal defense, 11 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5
set 7: proto gear, one level 10 one level 4, 5* trinket with piercing defense
18 pixel of normal defense, 14 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5
set 8: proto gear, one level 10 one level 4, 4* and 5* trinket with piercing defense
18 pixel of normal defense, 25 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 3 red and 3 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 4-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4
set 9: level 10 cobalt armor and level 4 proto helmet
31 pixel of normal defense, 22 pixel of piercing defense
animation of damage: 2 red and 2 yellow pips
health loss sequence: 3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5
from now on, everything is fully heated
set 10: vog cub coat and proto helmet
defense: 76 normal 0 piercing
damage: 3 yellow 2 red
sequence: 3.5-4-4-4-4-4-4-4
set 11: vog cub set
defense: 126 normal 0 piercing
damage: 3 yellow 2 red
sequence: 3.5-3.5-4-3.5-4-3.5-3.5-4-3.5-4-3.5
set 12: vog cub set + 4* and 5* trinkets
defense: 126 normal 25 piercing
animation: 3 yellow 2 red
sequence: 3-3.5-3.5-3.5-3-3.5-3.5-3.5-3-3.5-3.5
set 13: vog cub cap + silvermail
defense: 63 normal 52 piercing
damage: 2 yellow 2 red
sequence: 3-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5
set 14:vog cub cap + silvermail + 4* and 5* trinkets
defense: 63 normal 78 piercing
damage: 2 yellow 2 red
sequence: 3-3-3-3.5-3-3-3-3.5-3-3-3-3.5
set 15: cobalt helm + cobalt armor
defense: 51 normal 44 piercing
damage: 2 yellow 2 red
sequence: 2-2.5-2-2.5-2.5-2-2.5-2-2.5
set 16: charged quicksilver armor+helm
defense: 92 normal 112 piercing
damage: 2 yellow 2 red
sequence: 2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5-2-2
set 17: charged quicksilver armor+helm + 4* and 5* trinkets
defense: 92 normal 138 piercing
damage: 1 yellow 2 red
sequence: 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.5
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 09:31
#14
I'm doing some t3 tests as of
I'm doing some t3 tests as of right now, at the D19 arena in the dark rook gate, I'm not going to post all the data yet, but I thought I'd share a significative discovery already, so maybe someone can formulate an hypothesis while I finish collecting data.
spikes there "shows" damage as if it is only piercing ( yellow pip falling down from the character sprite), however, from the tests so far, 2 pieces of cobalt armor, fully heated ( 2*, 44 piercing defense) reduce the damage more than a silvermail armor plus no piercing defense on the helm do ( 52 piercing defense)
specifically, with 2 pieces of cobalt armor, the damage from spikes is in the range between 3 and 3.5 health bars, while with the single piece of silvermail, the damage is in the range between 3.5 and 4 health bars
EDIT: ok, here the raw values.
for the pixel amount, refer to my previous post, since the gear used is the same
Everything is fully heated
control group 1: proto gear
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4.5-5-5
control group 2: vog cub set
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4.5-5-5
set1: vog cub set + 2* trinket
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4.5-4.5-5-4.5-5-4.5-5-4.5-5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5-5
set2: vog cub set+ 4* trinket
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5
set3: vog cub set+ 5* trinket
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-4.5-5-4.5-4.5-4.5
set4: vog cub set + 4* and 5* trinket
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4-4.5-4-4.5-4.5-4-4.5-4.5-4-4.5
set5: 1 cobalt piece + 1 proto piece
damage: 5 yellow
health sequence: 4-4-4-4-4.5-4-4-4-4-4.5
set 6: cobalt set
damage: 4 yellow
health sequence:3-3.5-3.5-3.5-3-3.5-3.5-3.5-3-3.5-3.5
set 7: silvermail and vog cub helm
damage: 4 yellow
health sequence: 3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-4-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-4-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-3.5-4
set 8: silvermail and vog cub helm + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 4 yellow
health sequence:3-3-3-3-3-3-3.5-3-3-3-3-3-3-3.5
set 9 : charged quicksilver set
damage: 3 yellow
health sequence: 2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5-2-2-2-2.5
set 10: charged quicksilver set + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 2 yellow
health sequence: 1.5-2-1.5-2-2-1.5-2-1.5-2-2-1.5-2-1.5-2-2-1.5-2-1.5-2-2-1.5-2-1.5
later on i plan to test at the D28 spike traps in the last room before vanaduke
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 09:34
#15
This is some really nice
This is some really nice stuff. I wish I could contribute, but it's all a little beyond me.
The ability to essentially say that a medium defense UV = +5% defense would be really, really welcome to me, though.
People who are willing to thoroughly test game mechanics are the best people.
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 09:36
#16
These are all greatly
These are all greatly appreciated
~chris
Mon, 11/21/2011 - 14:32
#17
Ok folks, here are some data
Ok folks, here are some data from spikes at FSC, depth 26, I would have tested at depth 27 ( I might after that) but I'm not so sure I can solo to there too ( first time soloing, :3)
all are with a +15 vitapod
control group 1: proto set
damage: 8 yellow
health sequence: 7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5
control group2: vog cub set
damage: 8 yellow
health sequence: 7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5
set 1: vog cub set + 2* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health: 7-7.5-7.5-7-7.5-7.5-7-7.5-7.5-7.5-7-7.5
set 2: vog cub set + 4* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health:7-7-7-7.5-7-7-7-7.5-7-7-7-7.5
set 3: vog cub set + 5* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health: 7-7-7-7-7-7-7.5-7-7-7-7-7-7-7.5
set 4: vog cub set + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 7 yellow
health: 6.5-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-6.5-7-6.5
set 5: cobalt armor + proto helm
damage: 7 yellow
health: 6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5-7-6.5
set 6: cobalt set
damage: 6 yellow
health: 6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6
set 7: silvermail + vog cub helm
damage: 6 yellow
health: 5.5-6-5.5-6-6-5.5-6
set 8: silvermail + vog cub helm + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 6 yellow
health: 5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5-5.5
set 9: charged quicksilver helm + armor
damage: 4 yellow
health:3.5-4-4-4-3.5-4-4-4-4-3.5-4-4-4-4-3.5-4
set 10: charge quicksilver set + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage:
health: 2.5-3-3-2.5-3-3-2.5-3-3-3-2.5-3-3
Tue, 11/22/2011 - 02:30
#18
What timezone are you? I can
What timezone are you? I can get you where you'd need to go, then leave the party.
For SCIENCE!
Tue, 11/22/2011 - 02:48
#19
CET time, or GMT +1 if you
CET time, or GMT +1 if you prefer, but worry not, I'm home sick so I'm online like 12 hours a day (derp)
Tue, 11/22/2011 - 04:36
#20
Here is the d27 data,all are
Here is the d27 data,all are with a +15 vitapod
control group1: vog cub set
damage: 8 yellow
health sequence: 7.5-8-7.5-8-7.5-8
set 1: vog cub set + 2* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health: 7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-8
set 2: vog cub set + 4* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health: 7-7.5-7.5-7.5-7
set 3: vog cub set + 5* trinket
damage: 8 yellow
health: 7-7.5-7-7.5-7.5
set 4: vog cub set + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 7 yellow
health: 6.5-7-7-7-7-7-7-7
set 5: cobalt armor + proto helm
damage: 7 yellow
health: 7-7-7-7-7-7-7
set 6: cobalt set
damage: 7 yellow
health: 6-6.5-6-6.5-6
set 7: silvermail + vog cub helm
damage: 7 yellow
health: 6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6-6
set 8: silvermail + vog cub helm + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 6 yellow
health: 5-5-5.5-5-5.5-5-5.5
set 9: charged quicksilver helm + armor
damage: 5 yellow
health: 4-4-4-4.5-4-4-4-4.5
set 10: charge quicksilver set + 4* and 5* trinkets
damage: 3 yellow
health: 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3
Just as I suspected. Exponential defense. I would be curious to see this done with shields.