Spiral Knights - Gunslinger Gear: Suggestion on how to make it more useful

Gunslinger Gear: Suggestion on how to make it more useful

29 replies [Last post]

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 02:39

meowreka

Legacy Username

Instead of attack speed increase, change it to reload speed increase OR clip size increase (possibly both?)

Here's my reasoning:
1. Attack speed increase is not noticeable on most guns, even high attack speed increase. I haven't done much personal testing, but I've heard from many people that it's barely noticeable in a lot of guns, including the Magnus line.
2. Attack speed increase on guns is almost rendered useless by reloads anyway. Any increase, noticeable or not, is almost completely counteracted by the lengthy reload speed. Most players opt to avoid reloads entirely by not firing every bullet in the gun and then waiting for the cooldown.
3. Reducing reload speed would effectively increase the attack speed of guns by reducing the time between bursts.
4. Increasing clip size would also increase the attack speed by increasing the time between reloads.
5. Because if the incredibly variable difference in attack speed between guns, attack speed increases effect every gun very differently and effects some almost not at all. Increasing reload speed or clip size will positively effect every gun, and not make players with gunslinger gear stick to guns that specifically get better benefits from increased attack speed.

These are just a few reasons. If you agree, please post here. If you don't, please post here telling me why.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 02:59

Wallach

Legacy Username

I'd definitely love to see

I'd definitely love to see +Attack Speed also impact reload speed. That would be ideal, I think.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 03:53

Avatarion

Totally agree on this.

Gunners need attention too. Totally agree on this! *two thumbs up*

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 12:37

Merethif

I concur

I really endorse this suggestion. Great idea.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 13:48

Tumble

Legacy Username

I like having a fast attack

I like having a fast attack speed and slow reload speed. Assuming the DPS is the same, faster attack speed is favorable because you are able to move faster. As a gunner, you often need to kite or reposition yourself. This is done primarily during the reload time. If a gun had a very short reload time, but a longer shooting time, the gunner's mobility would be a lot weaker.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:09

LordHiccup

Legacy Username

While you have a good point

While you have a good point Tumble, there are several guns that don't allow you to shoot and move at the same time.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:35

meowreka

Legacy Username

I rarely avoid the Reload any

I rarely avoid the Reload any more. I've found out that waiting for the reload to "cool down" takes longer than just allowing the gun to reload, especially for fast shooting guns like the Antigua line. And there's very few situations where sitting still for that second and a half will actually get you damaged as long as you shield right afterwords and knock back enemies.

And pretty much every enemy besides gun puppies and boss monsters like Royal Jelly can be knocked back with a shield bash.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:37

Tumble

Legacy Username

The autogun series? Yeah

The autogun series? Yeah attack speed increase would be completely useless with those guns. Perhaps autoguns were not made for characters specialized in guns. That would be a great design - specializing in a certain weapon type doesn't make the other types weaker, it just limits your selection. For example, a bomber with a demo suit would not use most swords as well as someone with vog cubs, but the divine avenger synergizes quite well. In the case with autoguns, since they do great damage in a quick burst rather than extended DPS, it a perfect finisher to a melee-knockback combo. Since the autogun series doesn't allow you to move while shooting, nor does it have the highest dps, it's probably not idea for gunners anyways, but it's a great sidearm for sword users.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 14:41

meowreka

Legacy Username

I use the Antigua line. If

I use the Antigua line. If you time your knockbacks properly you can kite and earn yourself enough distance between enemies for reloads.

But the low attack speed increase on the current gunner gear is almost completely unnoticeable. And I have an attack speed increase unique variant Blackhawk too.

Fri, 04/15/2011 - 21:11

Archon

I agree with making

I agree with making gunslinger gear more useful and actually good, sword users get shields, armor and helms that actually greatly increase their weapon performance in multiple useful ways, in comparison our gunslinger gear in its current state is a joke =/

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 00:08

#10

Avatarion

Grasses

Also, make a way in which guns can now be able to take out the d*** grasses! :O

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 02:51

#11

Merethif

Not only autoguns

@Tumble: Also Magnus line handguns don't allow you to reload and move at the same time. Now, when kiting I overcome this flaw by making a tiny pause between each shot to avoid being pinned down in place during reloading.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 04:37

#12

Rentago

Legacy Username

There is a trick in every game, USE YOUR HEAD!

I try to avoid reloading by simply avoiding to shoot the round that will force you to do your reload animation.

In this case, I shoot two times with the valiance (Also has knock back per shot), wait for my guy to begin lowering his gun and that is the signal to shoot 2 more times. You don't need to wait for him to completely lower his gun, try it out and get the feel for it, once you get your twitch timing done you'll be laying down the hurt continuously instead of in bursts.

Doing this means I can block immediately in situation, I can shoot more within a time frame than someone who needs to reload, I can actually move around at full speed instead of being slowed down like those who are moving while reloading.

You have to get in this habit though, but once you get it down, you'll find guns magical without the need of your gunner gear.

I'm a demo and I use guns better than most people who went gunner.

P.S.

Attack speed just makes it so you can shoot faster with less pause in-between shots.
The only guns affected by this are things like the auto gun, as most are already practically shooting as fast as you can click.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 06:38

#13

Archon

**@Rentago ** A gunslinger

*@Rentago *

A gunslinger player should not have to resort to having to use their character in such odd ways just to be more useful, as a base "class" the developers should do more to make it that with the passive/base benefits you would gain you wouldn't have to result to "having to time attack animations down to a single damn frame" and other such silly things.

In other words players shouldn't have to obsessively search for the smallest of exploits in the games engine just too make better use of something the developers should instead change to be better so people dont have to be this desperate.

Sat, 04/16/2011 - 07:50

#14

Avatarion

Game Developers.

*agrees*

*protests* Make this game more friendlier to gunners! *protests*

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 15:05

#15

meowreka

Legacy Username

I wish devs would post in the

I wish devs would post in the suggestions area more often. All it takes is 15 minutes a day of browsing the forum to find good suggestions and post in the threads.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:42

#16

Avatarion

Maybe...

Maybe they have abandoned us.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:31

#17

Mettius

Legacy Username

It really is ridiculous how

It really is ridiculous how much gunslingers are shafted in this game.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 13:17

#18

Nuclearmouse

Legacy Username

Attack speed doesn't feel

Attack speed doesn't feel noticeable on swords either...
But i don't understand why gunslingers use the gunslinger armor in the first place.
A small boost to damage isn't all that great compared to the brilliant defense found on some armors.
I mean, not everyone uses wolver just because it increases sword damage.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:11

#19

HerpSomeDerp

Legacy Username

Guns need ups too

Guns do far too little damage especially considering how much monsters dodge in T2 / T3. Also how it is nearly impossible to hit anything when you have even the slightest of lag on these tiers.

Really gunslingers get no love right now compared to sword and bomb users.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:47

#20

meowreka

Legacy Username

Having a faster attack speed

Having a faster attack speed effectively means more damage. It's better to get in two attacks and shield before an enemy counters than to get in just one attack and then shield. Even if that one attack is really strong, it will never be as strong as two attacks, so attack speed is favored for that reason.

With guns, attack speed is almost meaningless. Since you're not even in the battle with guns most of the time, you don't have to worry about any short period of vulnerability or really have to shield unless you're deep in the bowels of Tier 3 and soloing it. And guns really just aren't as viable in Tier 3 sans maybe for kiting when enemies get WAY too difficult to approach.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 15:56

#21

Ilikiki

Why is the name meowreka so

Why is the name meowreka so disturbingly familiar?

Anyways, yes -- attack speed on handguns should probably also impact reload time.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:00

#22

meowreka

Legacy Username

nothingxs: http://starocean.w

nothingxs:
http://starocean.wikia.com/wiki/Meracle_Chamlotte

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 16:18

#23

FossaFerox

Legacy Username

Why are so many people under

Why are so many people under the impression that it doesn't speed up reloads? I've heard second hand testing accounts that it has the same barely-noticeable-but-still-there effect. Someone told me they recorded it, loaded it up in some editing software, and counted frames and that it does have an effect.

Anyone have a Callahan with no attack speed UV? We can test my Maximum! attack speed side by side against your base one and get some definitive results...

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 17:22

#24

Threule

Legacy Username

If you mean increasing the

If you mean increasing the clip of the revolvers, then i say no. Revolver mean six shooter. And i want it like that, i would use a revolver whenever i can

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 17:09

#25

meowreka

Legacy Username

Bump. The original suggestion

Bump.

The original suggestion and all the posts afterword building on it are all valid, and this is a good suggestion.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 20:35

#26

Master-Gunslinger

I just recently bought up a

I just recently bought up a set that makes all my guns at Ultra speed and it's pretty bad seeing how little all of that work goes to, especially getting a swiftstrike buckler that feels like a paper shield with no benefits, why even put it in the game?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:43

#27

Teferi

Actually, you can destroy

Actually, you can destroy grass with guns.
The trick is just getting the grass at the *very* edge of your projectile, where it'll auto detonate. It's particularly easy if the grass is next to a wall, brick, or other object which will cause the shot to detonate - but you can definitely do it just by positioning yourself properly.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 06:58

#28

jooozek

Legacy Username

I'd boot you off my party if

I'd boot you off my party if you were doing that kind of perfect allignation to cut the grass. You're just wasting everyone's time. There needs to be a real way to cut down the grass with guns.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:55

#29

Merethif

bush bashing

@jooozek:
Of course method described by Teferi is used only when gunslinger is playing solo. If one is in party with simpl... er.. I mean valiant swordsmen, he let sword-users to do all this bush bashing. Crop harvesting is best done by peasantry after all ;-)

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Gunslinger Gear: Suggestion on how to make it more useful