Spiral Knights - Ban - result of breaking rules laid in Community Standards and Terms of Service.

Ban - result of breaking rules laid in Community Standards and Terms of Service.

32 replies [Last post]

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 06:16

Asukalan

I afraid i wont get any answer from support team, via support mail again, since it seems its one side communication and support dont like to answer to mails containing logical arguments, they are rather eager to just answer to silly kids mails with stupid questions.

What is a Ban?
"A ban is a disciplinary action by a Game Master when a player is found to have broken one or more rules laid out in the Community Standards and Terms of Service. It results in a player's account not being able to log on to Spiral Knights. "

Also it says inside ingame ban notification that breaking Terms of Service will result in ban.

Reason of ban: Evading a suspension by using second account.

Now back to Terms Of Service and Conduct Guidelines

http://www.spiralknights.com/tos.xhtml

After reading it twice, there is no point that will even suggest that "Using second account to evade a suspension" will result in a ban.

Or am I blind? Its there but i dont see it? Maybe someone else can point it out? Exact location in Terms Of Service which will even slightly even suggest that using second account to evade suspension is bannable offense?

Or maybe its not in there? What, you are banned for breaking TOS but actually the reason you have been banned fo is not in TOS?

Doesent it mean that you can actually be banned for ANY MADE UP reason, anytime and TOS is actually just nice made wall of text that doesent mean anything?

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:04

Huhbum

it's probably this

from http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Ban

"DO NOT:

Use forum posts, in-game mail, or in-game chat to try to appeal your ban. Appeals must be submitted via the above support contact methods so that Three Rings has an official record of them.
Urge others try to appeal your ban on your behalf--Three Rings can only discuss account information with the owner of an account, for privacy reasons.
Create a new account in order to ask about a ban--this is called ban evasion, and is in itself a bannable offense."

Oh, and to answer your question: "Doesn't it mean that you can actually be banned for ANY MADE UP reason...?"

The technical answer is yes, and it's in the TOS:

21. General Provisions

You may not sublicense, rent, sell, assign or otherwise transfer the rights or obligations granted to you in this agreement, and any such attempted transfer shall be void. If any provision of this agreement is held to be unenforceable for any reason, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable, and such decision shall not affect the enforceability of: (i) such provision under other circumstances, or (ii) the remaining provisions hereof under all circumstances. Three Rings' failure to enforce at any time any provision of this agreement shall in no way be construed to be a present or future waiver of such provision, nor in any way affect the right of any party to enforce each and every such provision thereafter. The express waiver by Three Rings of any provision, condition or requirement of this agreement shall not constitute a waiver of any future obligation to comply with such provision, condition or requirement.

Basically, Three Rings can effect a proviso to modify any part of their TOS to make it enforceable. That means bending any part of their terms to fit an enforcement.

Most gaming companies have a similar "we can do anything if we want" clause in their TOS. Go read a few from various F2P companies, you'll see it there too. But I mean, it's right there in the wiki, so.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:05

No-Thanks

Zelda

its on top

"Behaving and Misbehaving
The most important part of Terms of Service relate to behavior: Common sense, consideration, and reasonable behavior are expected in the game. Together, they make Spiral Knights an enjoyable game for everyone. When a report is received about a knight who is behaving badly, a Game Master will resolve the situation as they deem appropriate for the good of the community. "

"If you breach this representation, or Three Rings has reasonable grounds to suspect that you have, Three Rings has the right upon notice to suspend or terminate your account and this agreement and to refuse your current or future use of Spiral Knights (or any portion thereof)."

even i can tell that u arent behaving and by now probably the whole forum knows

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:07

Debianlinux

Please, just shut up already.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:17

Juances

"Behaving and

"Behaving and Misbehaving
[...]When a report is received about a knight who is behaving badly, a Game Master will resolve the situation as they deem appropriate for the good of the community."

You have to be banned, for the good of the community

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:30

Asukalan

@Zelda"Behaving and

@Zelda

"Behaving and Misbehaving..." It just support my opinion that Support can ban anyone for anything without giving a valid reason, since they can put everything under label of "misbehaving". This means that whole support and "appeal to ban" function is just to make us feel we have any rights, while in fact we do not.

"If you breach this representation...." Please quite whole paragraph. The whole paragraph says:

4. Registration. If you accept the terms, Three Rings will process your registration form and establish a user account.

....

Three Rings recommends that you choose a password with letters and numbers, and do not use your User ID as your password. The registration form will ask you for other information about yourself ("Registration Data") which you represent and warrant is at all times true, accurate, current and complete, and which you agree to update in order to maintain as such. If you breach this representation, or Three Rings has reasonable grounds to suspect that you have, Three Rings has the right upon notice to suspend or terminate your account and this agreement and to refuse your current or future use of Spiral Knights (or any portion thereof).

It means that OOO can suspend my account if i put a false data in registration form. Not if i evade a suspension by using second account.

@ Debianlinux no comment,

@ Huhbum

"DO NOT:

Use forum posts, in-game mail, or in-game chat to try to appeal your ban. Appeals must be submitted via the above support contact methods so that Three Rings has an official record of them."

Im not using forum to appeal my ban. Im just asking questions here. I use official support mail to try appeal my ban. I didnt asked in any of my posts to lift my ban (which is appealing to ban) im just asking questions and demanting proofs.

also at "Create a new account in order to ask about a ban--this is called ban evasion, and is in itself a bannable offense." I didnt created new account in order to ask about ban. That account was created long time ago. Also i had every right to use that account anytime i wanted since TOS and Concuct Guidelines (which breaking result in ban) dont state that using second account to evade ban is bannabe offense.

"21. General Provisions

You may not sublicense, rent, sell, assign or otherwise transfer the rights or obligations granted to you in this agreement, and any such attempted transfer shall be vo........

...

"Basically, Three Rings can effect a proviso to modify any part of their TOS to make it enforceable. That means bending any part of their terms to fit an enforcement."

It just proves that im right. We are just puppets on the strings. It doesent matter if there are rules or not. We can be banned anytime and anywhere without a reason and we dont have any right to know the real reason and demant a proof. Sounds familiar? Communistic countries? Dictatorship?

@Juances
It again proves that GM have unlimited power on banning anyone for any reason, even if its "i dont like him" or "he is ugly". Since term "for the good of the community" can be extended without limit, and no player has any rights.

Beside it says, "When a report is received about a knight who is behaving badly, a Game Master will resolve the situation as they deem appropriate for the good of the community." Gamemaster will resolve this situation. Resolve basing on what? The Ban description says that Ban is result of breaking TOS while in TOS its not said if "evading ban by using second account" is a banable offense.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:26

Woofs

I really can't blame support

I really can't blame support for not wanting to deal with you. Nobody want's to deal with someone like you. The quicker you realize that the easier your life, and the lives of people who have no choice but to deal with you, will be. I also support Debianlinux's well thought out and considered suggestion.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:32

Asukalan

@ Woofs Its support JOB, they

@ Woofs
Its support JOB, they get payed for it. They have to deal with every people. Also the support page says, after filling report:

"Your email has been sent to our support staff. You will receive a reply as soon as possible.
We do read and respond to all emails, but please be patient with a reply."

I have been patient, they can answer, of course, it took them only 15 minutes for first time, now it takes them more than 24 hours. My patience has ended, i wont remain silent.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:36

Icee

You are a person, not an account.

When you are banned or suspended, you the person are banned or suspended, not just your account.

A ban means "do not log onto the game with any account." It does not mean "you can't use this account anymore."

You broke a rule. You weren't supposed to log in. You logged in, thus breaking another rule. It's not a difficult concept.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:40

Juances

Calm down

Ok, suppose you were right, the original ban was wrong, but you were impatient for a reply, you just lost your chance.

You raged and ended up qualifying for a ban if you didnt had one before.
You started it the wrong way, look no ones likes you now.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:41

#10

Huhbum

poor support staff

I feel sorry for the support staff today. You are like those really bad retail customers that just won't take no for an answer, and have to talk to the boss, and the boss's boss, and the boss's boss's boss, just to get the promo package with the free plushie.

In capitalist America, company buys YOU!

Fortunately, unlike the support staff, I do not get paid to deal with you!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAnpIevA1xY

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:46

#11

Asukalan

@Icee Sorry, you are wrong.

@Icee

Sorry, you are wrong. The very first words in Ban notification when i try to log are "Your account has been ..."

It doesent say You (as a person) have been banned. It says account. The first account was banned for spamming IGN Asukalan while second account IGN Asukalanforum wasnt banned. I have two accounts, one is paid, one is free. Doesent paying on account separates it from others?

And going back to TOS and Conduct Guidelines, they do not exactly state that "using second acount ot evade ban is bannable offence" therfore i had every right to log in on second account Asukalanforum. Also the second account Asukalanforum has been banned for same reason "evading ban by using second account..." which is not described in TOS as bannable offense. And therfore they had not right to ban any of my accounts.

@Juances
The original ban, was at least valid reason, since in conduct guidelines it cleary states that spamming forbitten. While TOS and CG dont states that "using second account to evade suspension" is bannable offense.

And one more time, i was patient enough for answer. I withnessed support answerind just 15 minutes after sending mail. Why did it take them now more than 24 hours to answer again?

@Huhbum
Im not taking "no" for answer. Im not getting any answer. Im demanding proof and justice. So far they didnt even bother to send me plain "no" as answer to my arguments.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 07:55

#12

Huhbum

customer service

lol, if I was a CS rep and you were yelling left and right about proof and justice over a temp ban for spamming that you clearly deserved, I'd mess with you and give you super slow, copy-paste replies too.

That said, the service is probably slow because it's the holidays, and most of the staff is on vacation.

If they WEREN'T on vacation, these threads would most likely get locked faster than you can say "this game is so ESEY".

But since you wanted a plain answer to your arguments:

no.

no,

no?

no!

kthx.

Oh, that's right. You weren't going to take no for an answer, were you? Why did you ask for no, then?

Edit: oh, I just thought of a good idea for my next replies.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:04

#13

No-Thanks

Zelda

my bad, i just hit control f for u in a hurry, now i did it again, hopefully with the right thing

this is what i wanted to quote

"18. Termination. Either you or Three Rings may terminate your account and this agreement upon notice at any time without further obligation to the other."

this is starting to remind me of chris' thread, where some1 posted this video of a mule(http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/27384?page=2#comment-161120)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Rdf0n_Lsg

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:25

#14

Asukalan

@No-Thanks"18. Termination.

@No-Thanks
"18. Termination. Either you or Three Rings may terminate your account and this agreement upon notice at any time without further obligation to the other."

Its not paragraph claiming that "using second account to evade suspension" is bannable offence. It syas that OOO can do whatever they want, anytime. Therfore it actually would say, that indeed my ban is deserved, since i didnt had to do anything to get a ban! I could get one just becouse i waked up, or just becouse i wanted to log in on certain hour and OOO didnt liked it. It seems that im victim of dictatorship of OOO since i was banned just "becouse they wanted", or maybe becouse i asked uncomfortable questions or becouse they are discriminating people living in certain areas.
And so called reason "using second account to evade a ban" is just made up.

But also it says "...upon notice...". So if im actually punished, as a result of this paragraph of TOS (but not really for breaking the TOS since you cant break that paragraph) i should have been noticed about it before i was banned, not at moment of applying ban.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:21

#15

Huhbum

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:29

#16

Njthug

I think I will go with this

I think I will go with this answer:

You are wrong again.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:31

#17

Icee

Asukalan evades his common sense.

It's common sense and long-standing OOO policy that the person is punished, not the account.

You earned a suspension for spamming. You the person were asked to spend some amount of time not playing. You the person violated that punishment by playing during your suspension, so you the person had a second account disabled.

If offenders could use alternate accounts to get around bans or suspensions, bans would mean nothing and scammers, spammers, and swearers would never learn their lessons and would ruin the playing experience for those of us who are honest and courtious.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:45

#18

Asukalan

@Icee "It's common sense and

@Icee
"It's common sense and long-standing OOO policy that the person is punished, not the account. " then why its not cleary stated? Or maybe they are using it whenever they like? If they need to understeand account as account they use it. If they want to understeand account as person they use that definition.

It would again show that we are all under dictatorship of OOO and players dont have any rights.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:47

#19

Huhbum

oh wait

"players don't have any rights"

This is actually true, yes. It's like this for all MMO's that have a Terms of Service. The sooner you know this, the sooner you can stop arguing over a temp ban.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 08:50

#20

Xombie

No! Bad Dog ! Outside - Now !

Dictatorship ? Seriously? This is a video game, not a system of government.

Grow up, Asukalanforum. You got banned, deal with it and stop crying all over everyone.

Yer now starting to spam the forums. Perhaps we will all get lucky and you will get "grievoused" and banned from the forums too.

That is all.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:36

#21

Huhbum

Xombie wins

Xombie, in your glorious honor, I have created the following re-enactment of the true account of Asukalanforum's ban:

Comrade Asukalan's Fall
A short parable in dedication of Comrade Xombie, Emissary of the People, adjunct to the Superior Great Commissariat of the Knight Workers' Party, and devotee of Dear Leader Boswick, The Eternal Sun of All-Haven

One cold, blustery day in Haven, there was a man. Actually, he was a fictitious, pixellated cyber-man. But he was still, a man. A man who had wares to sell.

Out from his Mist Energy-heated abode, he braved the cold and artificial snow that was actually syrup. He had one purpose: to sell materials.

It is a rough life, living in Haven with limited CE funds, unable to use the Energy Depot like the privileged ones. You must eke out your own survival in whatever way you can.

So, this brave comrade, Asukalan, he would daily cry out, "selling 5star mats! Primal ore, Shadow steel, Plague essence, sun silver, spark of life... and many others! PM me if you need something!". Over and over(twice) he would do this. And he would do so merrily, merrily.

But there were those who disapproved of his voice. They would look at him, in his spot, and covet his wares and scoff at his prices. They would disapprove of his loadout. Most of all, they would be enraged by the fact that he would boldy ply his trade in the non-Trade channels.

And so, they informed on Comrade Asukalan. They informed on him like the informants they were, and soon enough, the NKVD was upon him. Yes, that NKVD: The Naughty Knights Vigilante Division(also known as the KGB: Knight General's Bouncers). And they were informed, and they singled poor Comrade Asukalan out, and dragged him by his non-displayed pixel boots and carried him away to the Ban camps.

And one time, in Ban camp, brave Comrade Asukalan would still shout out: not to sell wares, but to rail at the injustice and the lack of due process, and the unfairness by which he was treated. But none would listen.

Why did his cries fall on deaf ears? Was it because he had truly gone too far? Was it because his fellow Knight comrades did not approve of his boldness? Was it because he had angered his superiors one too many times, and brought upon himself the wrath of the glorious Knight Workers' Party?

None shall know for certain. But if you listen closely on those cold Winterfest nights, you may still hear the sound of Comrade Asukalan's voice on the wind, still shouting, still raging against the night, yelling desperately for any and all energy-powered souls to listen to his pleas.

In the end, Comrade Asukalan might eventually be released from his snowy prison, far to the north of things. But one thing is for certain: the glorious Party's wrath is fierce, and they are watching.

-end-

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 09:53

#22

Debianlinux

I snickered out loud.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 10:22

#23

Xombie

Ban Camp - zomg I laughed

Huhbum that was brilliant ! Very comic and well written. Thank you for the smiles.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:07

#24

Melisan

@Asukalanforum

"every people" lol any argument you have is invalidated by this.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:13

#25

Tom-Awsm

Asukalan: It's kinda like

Asukalan: It's kinda like bars or other businesses that have a sign on the wall saying "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". This means that if they throw you out, you can't just put on different clothes (account) and try again. OOO are the owners of the game, and thus can do what they deem to be "for the good of the community".

@No-Thanks: A very applicable video, nice one.

@Huhbum: You, sir, are awesome! I salute you ^^

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:36

#26

Iron-Volvametal

Something tells me...

You don't have a PSh3/XBawx/Wee at home, do you?

http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net/photos/images/newsfeed/000/170/659/...

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 12:43

#27

Dancinjen

@huhbum

I was not even going to look at this thread but I'm sure glad I did. You suddenly made this thread worth all the trouble.

So thank you creator of this thread. Without you, that fantastic short story would have never been written. I really must think you for your contribution to the community.

Much love. Much love.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 15:20

#28

Rubyeclipse

Huhbum wins the thread.

/clap.

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 23:28

#29

Myllakka

---

Huhbum, that was amazingly written and so very eloquent. Why, its sheer beauty brings a tear to my eye.

I learned something new today--Grievos was forum-banned?! I haven't heard of this at all.

Asukalan, creating this thread won't help your cause, and really, waiting 24 hours for a reply isn't bad at all. Perhaps your previous 2 hours just happened to be during a time in which some GM had little to do.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 15:47

#30

Rangerwillx

Well done good sir.

Huhbum, that was spectacular.
Hilarious.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 16:30

#31

Dirigible

...

The OP was clearly a person who got banned for dodging a suspension. However, without sufficient evidence and stuff, they were left confused as to why they were banned, as the ToS doesn't really mention cases like that.

This confusion culminated into this forum thread, which no admins will look at because of the rules against using forum posts to object bans.

However, I still don't see why you people then took another step to continue a full-fledged verbal battery/ siege on the thread creator, and even going as far as to applaud these offenses.

Had some of you actually thought about this from the original poster's perspective, you would see that being perma-banned from a game for a reason that is not defined directly in the rules would be kind of a slap to the face.

Being banned in general from a game that you probably spent days' worth of time and possibly some money on would get you riled up, yes? I'm sure if you were banned for an obscure reason, you wouldn't just sit there and submit. So please, next time, before being rude to someone, just think a couple of seconds as to how you would feel if that happened TO YOU.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 17:32

#32

Huhbum

hmm

@Dirigible

Normally, I would say that the point you make is very sensible.

However, this particular thread is actually the second thread made by this particular poster in the span of a few days on very similar topics. The fact that this thread even exists was an attempt by the poster to re-iterate his position of the previous thread. So, this thread is actually extraneous from the very beginning:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38314

Furthermore, I know it's difficult to look up post history on these forums(because, as Jim-Dale points out in an unrelated thread on the Suggestions forum, the Spiral Knights forum system lacks a great deal of forum options that most forums have such as looking up post history!), but if you did some searching and looked through Asukalanforum's forum posts, you will find that quite often, this particular poster tends to post in a similar style to what these two threads represent.

So, I would say that the 'battery' of responses that you have witnessed is actually the result of accumulated reputation. Also, unless otherwise specified, he/she was not permanently banned; offenses of this type are generally temporary, and nowhere was it specified that the ban was permanent(feel free to correct me if I am in error!)

Now, to get back to your original point, and, well, the point of all these fairly nonsensical threads: Yes, the rules could be stated more clearly, and yes, ban protocols could be improved by the company. However, any time someone wishes to air out their disputes to the court of public opinion(especially as far as the internet is concerned), one opens up themselves to scrutiny, argument, trolling, and general mischief.

As far as my part in this is as such, I began with actual information, and once I discovered that the actual discussion was more akin to an Argument Clinic than actual discussion, I decided to have a little fun at the OP's expense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

P.S: no.

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Ban - result of breaking rules laid in Community Standards and Terms of Service.