Spiral Knights - Can I survive shadow lairs?

Can I survive shadow lairs?

23 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 19:44

Swolenator

I read some of the recommended gear and some of it I have except armour I think. But i was considering trying to get a snarby cap. Currently I have.

5star
barb thorn blade and shield
cold iron vanquisher low dmg beast
fang of vog
voltedge
polaris
graviton vortex
voltaic tempest
vog cup cap low normal d
vog cup coat low elemental d
crest of almire low normal d

i have other lower star items that i could consider upgrading. brute jelly stuff, quicksilver stuff,horned owlite shield, angelic raiment, fiery atomizer low ctr, master blast bomb, all the token weapons but none upgraded except polaris and voltaic tempest. some demo suits 4 and 3 stars. I have no trinkets and only 3 weapon slots. And only a 2 star freezing vaporizer. But most of these wouldn't be any help.

but from what I read I need piercing and shadow defense items for snarby shadow run. Armour wise I would have to run vog cub set, shield either barb thorn blade or crest of almire (which would be best?) weapons barb thorn blade, and then probably what polaris and either voltaic tempest or another sword.
If I manage to find a good team would this setup be sufficent? If not what should be my primary investment? As I don't know really many people who run the shadow lairs and would hope to find people that split the key price. As for the shadow lairs crafting I would just need ash tail lvl 10, that nightmare mane material and the 800ce and cr cost right there is no recipe fee or is there? Debatiing whether I could survive with current gear plus would need find good players to run it with. But I currently have only 80kcr 59ce and 100mist but I have all the wolver recipes to get ashtail already. Btw do revives in shadows cost more or the same as t3 and if you are on elevator pass are there any lift fees for shadows? I've never tried I watched a little bit of it on youtube and saw kats, wolvers, howlitzers and zombies. I think weapon wise I'm not too bad off except no da but only have vog armour is the thing. I was hoping to go there before my elevator pass runs out next week.

Also should I bother buying a nightmare mane in ah if i plan on doing shadow snarby lair and only making the cap?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 20:17

Culture

Hmm

There's quite a few discussions on Shadow Lair loadouts, might search around the forum for some good info. Also there is a Shadow Lair buddy thread in the General Discussion Forum.

Vog set is hardly ideal, but it'll have to do. I don't think most people have the proper armors the first run-through. Weapons take BTB (for beasts) Voltedge (for undead) and Polaris (ranged howls/zombies/kats). For me a Shadow Shield is better than Piercing, so I'd suggest you take the Crest. But either is functional.

When you get to the Unknown Passage I recommend spamming CIV charges, knock things into the corners and away from teammates then let them have it. I personally always have a Levi there.

Find a good group to go with and you'll be fine. If there are 2-3 experienced people you should do fine for revives. If someone else in your party has Shivermist it'll make it vastly easier. You'll need a lot more CE to craft at the end though.

You'll get one Nightmare Mane at the end of UGWW, so you don't need to buy one off the AH.

Revives in Shadow Lair follow the same costs as T3.

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 02:07

Lseraphim

I've only been on the snarby lair once (1 experienced and 3 new). Main difficulties were:

1. Random spikes from snarbolax during an area fight.
2. Sometimes we get separated and killed one by one.
3. During the boss fight, the black thing that makes you slow is very annoying and can cause your team to fail.
4. Piercing attacks coming from the 2 snarbolax destroyed my shield easily (grey owlite).
5. Over whelming monsters on the unknown passage.

Items recommended:

Barb shield, barb blade, polaris, shivermist, DA, Levi

The monster deals shadow and piercing dmg mostly so expect to get some serious dmg when you get hit.

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 07:58

Bopp

yep, quite a few

There is now a brief note to the Shadow Lair wiki page, telling people what kind of armor and weapons they want. And there are many threads on this, including one active one right now, and another one started after that, and now yours.

Among your equipment, here is what I'd recommend, with three weapon slots:

barb thorn blade
voltedge
voltaic tempest (or polaris if other party members have crowd control bombs)
vog cup cap
vog cup coat
crest of almire or barbarous thorn shield

Your weapons are fine. Your armor is pretty bad, as you know. You want normal, piercing, shadow, and poison protection. Your shield gives you either piercing or shadow. Consider getting one piece of Fallen, or maybe Valkyrie, or Dread Skelly? I know it stinks to get a 5-star item just for one run, but unless you are really skilled or your party is really strong, doing SGWW in Vog Cub will be really tough.

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 19:50

Swolenator

well i currently have angelic

well i currently have angelic raiment already. So i could consider turning it into fallen or valkyrie. I assume valkyrie would be better since it protects vs curse and not fire? And then I could maybe make a skolver cap since have up to ash recipes. Just going set me back time wise lol. But would that be an ok combo?

Sat, 01/07/2012 - 20:21

Jonathansiu

@ swolenator Although

@ swolenator
Although valkyrie has a curse resistance, which may help you in UFSC, the fire penalty is just far too great to be ignored. It's pretty much a costume gear and cannot be used in FSC, and there're fires in UFSC too. Fallen, on the other hand, would do a pretty good job here. The curse penalty would block one more weapon for you, where 3 of your weapons are cursed. However, comparing to the fire penalty of valkyrie, that seems almost nothing big. With your valkyrie, you would be burnt to half-dead if you ever catch on fire in UFSC, and I'm pretty sure that's a lot worse than having one more weapon cursed. With so many bosses stratus with fire out there, the valkyrie is having a really big disadvantage comparing to the fallen. On a side note, you can always buy an angelic raiment with curse UV on it in the future, which is definitely a lot cheaper than a fire one.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 06:23

Bopp

aren't we talking about just SGWW?

We're not talking about all four Shadow Lairs here, are we? We're just talking about Shadow Gloaming Wildwoods, right?

The curse penalty on Crown/Armor of the Fallen is no harm at all in SGWW, because (A) there are no phantoms, and (B) there are no gremlins or slimes, so there's no reason to carry Gran Faust, so you can't curse yourself. Also, the fiend penalty on Fallen is no harm at all, because there are no fiends.

Of course, in the Unknown Passage there are plenty of slimes, so Gran Faust is great, but if you're like me you still won't be charging it.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 07:08

Fradow

@Bopp : don't forget about

@Bopp : don't forget about the silkwings! (which are fiends). But that's not a reason to spit on Fallen set.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:27

Swolenator

Well I did end up getting the

Well I did end up getting the fallen armour. When should I use it over vog cub? Kinda wish I got the other since getting cursed with faust charge lasts forever. Like on fire levels is it better to have the vog or the shadow if they are shadow enemies. Talking none shadow lair stuff atm since I have it now just not sure when it is preffered other than candlestick. I know fiends and undead deal shadow dmg just wondering if when case of fire levels like vana and such which is best.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 21:48

Bopp

Vog Cub vs. Fallen

Well, Vog Cub is normal, elemental, and fire, with a sword speed bonus Medium. Fallen is normal, shadow, fire, poison, -curse, blanket speed bonus Low, and blanket damage penalty against fiends.

If you're looking for defense, then use Vog Cub in gremlin, construct, and fire-themed levels. Use Fallen in undead, poison, and fire-themed levels, and maybe in fiend-themed levels. I mean, there's no magic here. Examine the gate map, determine which monsters, damage, and status you'll likely be facing, and equip accordingly.

If you're looking for offense, then it comes down to whether you use primarily swords (in which case Vog Cub helps a lot) or a mix of swords and guns (in which case Fallen helps both a little).

Gran Faust is good against slimes (deal piercing) and gremlins (deal elemental), where Fallen helps very little. So I'm surprised that you would be using Gran Faust and Fallen at the same time, except maybe in the Unknown Passage.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 01:36

#10

Swolenator

yeah i was just wondering

yeah i was just wondering when the level had shadow enemies but was fire themed which was the better choice. Or like on vana runs which I can do fine until last wave due to only having polaris for a gun. But I guess the fire only does initial elemental dmg? And yeah when I was thinking about faust I was thinking about for there.

I saw a wolver cap elemental medim uv which I don't think is the best for a skolver or snarby probably. Which would it be better for or should I try to resell it? I got it for 8000cr because I saw similiar mediums over 20kcr so figured was a decent deal. Are the chances of getting a uv in the sanctuary greater or the same? Right now I have an ashtail with no uvs and the wolver cap with medium elemental. Not sure how to progress whther to make the elemental meduv cap into a skolver or snarby or sell it and get a uv that would benefit one or the other. Should I sell the elemental for one with like piercing just to make a little more easier? Currently I have no piercing defense aside from shield so maybe I should get a piercing uv for skolver. Heh oh well tnx for the help you gave.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 03:49

#11

Derpules

What would you need ele med for?

Sell that thing. And yes, you can make a profit off it, unless you really derp your auction timing.

Personally, I think it would be a waste to make Snarby gear from anything without decent UVs. You're going through all that trouble; don't you want to make sure the stuff you get at the end of it is worth it?

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 04:48

#12

Metagenic

I think Bopp made a typo

Just to clarify: "Use Fallen in undead, poison, and fire-themed levels, and maybe in fiend-themed levels."

Everything he said is correct, except the last five words.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 08:35

#13

Bopp

not a typo

Metagenic, it was not a typo. Fiends deal shadow damage, and Fallen is shadow armor, so it works there. However, its damage penalty is obviously a drawback --- this is why I inserted the word "maybe". If it's your only shadow armor, then wear it in fiend levels. But yes, there are certainly better shadow armors to wear against fiends.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 08:46

#14

Metagenic

Well

Fallen should be avoided in fiend levels, unless you have dmg vs fiend vh UVs on all of the weapons you plan on carrying in there. The medium penalty applies to every weapon you carry, meaning that you'll be a lot less effective fiend killer unless you have godly UVs to neutralize this drawback.

In SGWW, you'll be fine in a team if you wear Fallen set. Just don't even try to kill silkwings, or solo the Lair (because you'll eventually have to kill the silkwings if you're on your own) if you have both Fallen pieces.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 08:52

#15

Bopp

so Vog Cub?

Metagenic, the original poster is comparing Vog Cub and Fallen. Which of these would you recommend he wear in a fiend-themed stratum?

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 09:06

#16

Metagenic

for fiends

Vog Cub, if he can usually avoid getting hit. ASI vh is pretty useful (shield canceling faster, being able to recover quicker - helps a lot with Final Flourish charge)

Fallen is great in a fiend stratum in this situation - if your other piece is Valkyrie, or you have a pair of 5* damage trinkets for your main weapon class.

Or he could just use one piece of Fallen and one piece of Vog Cub (for a total of ASI high) then counter the fiend penalty with one damage trinket. Very unorthodox, but it's usable.

Mon, 02/20/2012 - 09:20

#17

Bopp

well, now we're clear

It's certainly true that Vog Cub's ASI is useful in offense and defense. But I would wear Fallen, I think. Devilites deal a lot of shadow damage, and Greavers deal entirely shadow damage, I think. It's brutal, unless you are fighting perfectly to avoid damage.

One piece of Vog Cub and one piece of Fallen would be a good compromise. Actually, I wasn't ever thinking of wearing two pieces of Fallen. The poster has only one piece. Two pieces would really weaken your damage against fiends, I agree.

Anyway, our positions are clear now. Cheers.

Sat, 02/25/2012 - 21:49

#18

Swolenator

@derpules what uv would you

@derpules what uv would you recommend? I think i can only afford medium lvls really unless I want to spend everything I have atm just on the 2 star cap. High uv's like fire look like they are around 100kcr and medium around 25k which is more the limit I would probably spend. I don't really play lockdown and this would be my only shadow helmet atm. I was consering maybe a medium fire? And how do say ones with 3 low uvs compare? Anyways you guys have helped alot just a matter of saving the funds now.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 19:38

#19

Swolenator

Well I am looking towards

Well I am looking towards building some armor for the other shadow lairs now and I am not sure what my best combinations would be armor wise on twins and darkfire using gear that i have. For ice i am set with full skolver and bts. For twins i was thinking seerus w/med fire uv (since has gun bonus and fire and shock protect), grey owlite and either making a grey feather mantle or using vog,dragon scale that i have but they have no shock defense and beast bonus would be useless. And possilbe a merc demo suit eventually.
For darkfire I was conidering using seerus med fire uv and deadshot mantle high normal but that lacks some fire defense. I know divine armor has everything you need but gives only med fiend bonus on cap and sadly I only went with a med fire on my snarb cap as well and no fire on snarb coat. I also have a volcanic demo helm but only has a low curse. For darkfire i currently have a crest of almire which should be fine unless wanted a volc demo to take trojan/guard hits a little better and as far as weapons go i am set on all shadow lairs now.
Was just wondering if anyone had suggestions on if what i have is sufficient or if I should get one or 2 armor that specifically fills the needs of the lair like grey feather on twins and divine on darkfire tnx.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 19:52

#20

Bopp

so to summarize

So, to summarize in an easy-to-read format:

* SRJP: Skolver Cap, Skolver Coat, Barbarous Thorn Shield. Good.

* SIMF: Perfect Mask of Seerus +2 Fire, Vog Cub Coat, Grey Owlite Shield. Assuming that your team is decent, that's fine. Grey Feather Mantle might help defense a bit, but at the cost of some offense. I wouldn't recommend spending the resources.

* SFSC: Perfect Mask of Seerus +2 Fire, Deadshot Mantle +3 Normal, Crest of Almire. That should be okay; curse is not as dangerous as fire. I wouldn't recommend spending your resources on Divine Mantle or even Divine Veil. You also have Snarbolax Cap +2 Fire and Snarbolax Coat? The cap is worth considering. There's a lot of shadow damage in there, although you'd be less resistant to fire. Your mix of swords and guns is also a consideration. There's no obvious answer.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 20:33

#21

Swolenator

tnx bopp you made it a lot

tnx bopp you made it a lot more reader friendly than i did. And yeah I have both snarbs cap has fire med, coat has shock med not the best of uv's but I could combine the snarb med fire cap with vog just no curse d then. I forgot to mention trinkets I have 1 sword dmg,1 gun dmg and glacius has ctr med, voltedge ctr high and combuster and divine have asi med and also have a ctr med on shiv but I have a weapon to cover each role I would need according to party needs. I might just role uv's on one or both vog to see if anything worth while comes up.

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 02:07

#22

Tomjkl

"Fallen should be avoided in

"Fallen should be avoided in fiend levels, unless you have dmg vs fiend vh UVs on all of the weapons you plan on carrying in there. The medium penalty applies to every weapon you carry, meaning that you'll be a lot less effective fiend killer unless you have godly UVs to neutralize this drawback. "

As someone who wears The Fallen set quite regularly, this comment bothered me.
Do you even wear the fallen set?
"Just don't even try to kill silkwings"
Really? The damage penalty, wearing the whole set, makes the difference between 6 hits rather than 5, and in solo, two hits instead of two.
The damage penalty vs fiends is not bad at all. Someone in Fallen armor with a piercing weapon will still do much more damage than someone in other armor with a non-piercing weapon. You don't need "Godly UVs".

There are very few situations where the Gran Faust would be used with the Fallen set.
In fact, in the hundreds of levels I've played, I have never been cursed while wearing the Fallen set, which was my first and only 5* armor set for a while. I would avoid Fallen set in shadow lair FSC though.

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 02:19

#23

Derpules

Hey, sorry I never replied earlier.

But it sounds like you made decent choices anyway. :) I would have gone for fire med on the coat as well as the cap, but no big.

@Tomjkl: You're right. I use one piece of Fallen and the difference between med penalty and no penalty isn't great. That said, the difference between med penalty and med bonus is pretty significant--it's like a VH of positive damage. And if you compare full Fallen with full Snarby, the difference is equivalent to a positive bonus of Max + Med (ordinarily unobtainable).

I know, I know, you were comparing Fallen vs no bonus/penalty, not Fallen vs Snarby. I just want to point out that the difference *can* be great depending on your alternatives.

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Can I survive shadow lairs?