Spiral Knights - Gun Buff Extravaganza!!!

Gun Buff Extravaganza!!!

18 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 06:49

Jontlemen

So hey, most people feel that guns need some buffs! Let's work on that.

First off, I propose that guns should have a "combo" like swords do. The shot that makes you reload should be somewhat more powerful than the others, giving gunners a choice between being mobile and defensive while dealing damage (by never letting the reload occur) or offensive but more vulnerable.

Secondly, many guns need buffs to see more use, I'll attempt to do this, along with outlining what their reload shot should be.

---Alchemer Line---
Mostly good, but I think the Nova and Umbra Drivers could use a little more love out of the charge, maybe getting 1 or 2 more projectiles(might be overdoing it) or bounces out of their charge attack . It would also be nice if the ricochets occurred from the normal shot even if you don't hit anything, being especially helpful for trojans and mechaknights. Also, as anyone who has used an alchemer at the Ironclaw Munitions Factory can attest to, ricochets should not affect blocks and switches. Although there can be some practical uses for it, it's more trouble than it is worth. The reload shot for the status alchemers could simply be a 20% increase in damage along with a better chance to induce their status, while the Umbra and Nova drivers would produce two ricochets along with the 20% increase.

---Antigua Line---
This thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/34185
Has pretty good ideas for making the Antigua line more useful, mainly changing the damage to be pure elemental or shadow on the respective gun and changing the charge shot to be only the final shot (bird/piercing bullet). The reload shot would simply be a damage increase (30% maybe?).

---Autogun Line---
Base line is good already, reload shot only needing a slight damage (10%-15%) increase and maybe 2 more needles.

Not sure what to do with the Pepperbox or Plague needle, other than stopping the pepperbox charge from pulling enemies towards you, changing the pepperbox's "Moderate" fire to "Strong", and general damage increases for both.

---Blaster Line---
From what I hear, for non-gunners this gun is decent once you get to valiance due to its knockback on each shot, should only need a 20% damage and knockback increase on the final shot, and maybe giving the gun some knockback on its lower levels.

---Catalyzer Line---
Charge could maybe use an iincrease in size so getting multiple enemies marked with one shot will be more viable. Reload shot would be a small damage increase along with marking the target.

---Magnus Line---
I think this line of gun needs some fixes for the sake of consistency. One of the main attractions of the gun is that it causes many lighter enemies to flinch after being hit with a shot, but with more players enemies can get too tough to flinch from the shot, making it much less useful. So long as it is in its appropriate Stratum, the magnus line should always make lighter enemies flinch. I'm not sure of the specific technicalities involved in making enemies flinch, so that's really all I can suggest. The reload shot should make stronger enemies flinch and do more damage (20% and better Stun chance for Callahan and 30% for Iron Slug).

Specifically:
>Will flinch on the first and second shot
Goblin Menders and Demos
Chromalisks and average wolvers
Devilites, Greavers, and Wings
!!Iron Slug only!!
Scuttlebots

>Will flinch only on the second shot
Goblin Thwackers
Trojans
Howlitzers, Zombies, Kats, and Slag Guards
!!Iron Slug only!!
Mecha Knights and Gun Puppies
Jellies and Polyps

Also, the charge shot should pierce enemies, like the final shot of the Antigua line's charge or the charge attacks of the 4* and 5* Sealed Swords

---Pulsar Line---
I know I am going to get some flack for this, but I think the elemental line of this gun is too powerful right now, the range should be reduced for it by 20% (mostly so that people with other guns can outrange spammers in LD). The normal line's range should stay the way it is.

Charge attack could be sped up and the reload shot could simply be the basic more damage/better chance for status effect.

Also, Gun ASI should probably effect reload times to some degree, with each level decreasing reload time by 7% with MAX at 42% since I think that's how it works with damage increases.

Comments are appreciated and thanks for reading.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 07:04

Melisan

The thing about swords and

The thing about swords and the final hit being more powerful, it's about representing the effort usually associated with a final blow in a combo, with guns the last bullet is just as powerful as the first because it is a mechanism based weapon i.e you cannot pull the trigger harder
I do agree with the asi effecting load times, I have asi high on a storm driver and it seems a little pointless.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 09:41

Jontlemen

Well yes, that may be true

Well yes, that may be true for real life firearms, but these are made with SCIENCE! and MAGIC!
But really, riight now, there just really isn't a reason you should be reloading aside from laziness or being pretty sure that last shot will kill them, Magnus and Autogun aside.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 11:51

Melisan

Well seeing as the volt

Well seeing as the volt driver only has 2 shots, the asi high is lost without using the second shot, if it was a 3 shot gun then the UV would be of some use. I'm not a gunner, I use 3 swords and a gun as backup and reloading does not make my lazy.
"Made with science" most guns are, and even if they were magic there would be no reason for the shots to be different strengths.
I was not attacking your post, the ideas are well thought out, well presented and not crazy. I was just giving a logical reason why. Now maybe I'm wrong and your ideas will be implemented in the game and gunners would rejoice. Good luck.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 12:12

Uuni

Iron slug has stun chance

Iron slug has stun chance since when? O.O

Anyways I approve this post. I would love to see the catalyzer series regular shots be really fast, now it's annoying to catch the enemy after tagging it with the abysmally slow charge shot. Like shock rifle from unreal tournament series (anyone?)

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 12:16

Melisan

Although when you did get

Although when you did get that right MMMMonster Kill.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 16:47

Alphacommando

@Jontlemen:"but these are

@Jontlemen:

"but these are made with SCIENCE!"

Aperture Science? :D

EDIT:

"there just really isn't a reason you should be reloading aside from laziness"

*coughtwoshotgunscough*

BUT!!! with *coughtwoshotgunscough*, you can MAGIC!ally transform them into three-shot guns!

*fire a shot*
*fire another*
*hold as if to charge*
*before charge finishes charging, release*
*MAGIC!al third shot*
*reload*
*no SCIENCE! included*

Increases shot capacity by 1 while reloading. And yes, enemies may die from this last shot. I'm not sure if you can do this with all guns, but I just got an Antigua (:D :D :D (I hate collecting 53,000 cr D: D: D:) :D :D :D) so I shall test and see if I can MAGIC!ally turn it into the first ever seven-shot gun!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 19:06

Fehzor

Agreed

My idea for the magnus line is to do one or maybe two of the following:
-Bullets penetrate through enemies
-Bullets should cause stun status to enemies on iron slug
-Bullets explode with knockback similar to sudasurka's charge attack upon hitting enemies
-Bullets home in on enemies
-Lessened reload time
-Stronger attacking power
-Charge attack is capable of creating cracks in the map.

Please buff the magnus line.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 01:38

Melisan

Sorry

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 19:03

Fehzor

What?

No, I just find the magnus line to be completely underpowered. It barely touches construct and slime, and is bad to use against kleptolisks. Not liking the magnus line doesn't give you the right to call me and my ideas on how to make the magnus better childish, or to dismiss me as a troll.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 00:37

#10

Quotefanboy

The Pepperbox

Why take away suction from a shotgun?

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 01:04

#11

Jontlemen

Seems counter-intuitive and

Seems counter-intuitive and does more harm than good.
Since when do shotguns suck people in anyway?

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 01:40

#12

Melisan

@Fehzor sorry man, i read

@Fehzor sorry man, i read your post wrong (very tired, on edge waiting for new baby to arrive [still no excuse]) I thought you were trolling, my bad.

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 03:29

#13

Jontlemen

@Alphacommando if you fire

@Alphacommando
if you fire two shots consecutively, the gun will reload even if you hold the attack button down
you can hold down on the first shot, wait a split second, and then fire two more shots, but you can do that without holding down charge
gives the Magnus and Autogun lines a small increase in mobility if you don't want to reload, but is mostly pointless with other guns

@Melisan
I THINK ASI decreases the amount of time you have to pause between shots in order to not reload but I'm not sure

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 21:12

#14

Quotefanboy

My friend uses the pepperbox

I've seen it suck in.
I've seen it kill something like that in a single barrage, and it makes it stagger because of the massive bullets and damage.

If you know what you're doing, which I've seen, it's very good. Kills easily.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 15:45

#15

Jontlemen

bump

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:22

#16

The-Rawrcake

-1

First, there is a thread I made in the wiki forums about handgun ASI already affecting reload speeds - it seems too obvious to me and I'll test it.

And second, Polaris is not nearly overpowered as people think it is.

1. It is a utility gun and bad to use to DPS something (just silly to spam it at something you aren't using it as utility / trying to kill - that is what alchemers are for)

2. Swordsmen take it for gun puppies / occasional utility. Not for damage.

Alchemers charge is fine and needs nothing more, it is already amazing just leaves you vulnerable

Also, I do NOT want to see them make guns around how swordsman's swords work. I want them to make gunners gunners, bombers bombers, and swordsman swordsman. No tweaking the other to be like eachother - there are other buffs we should get besides this. It is up to the gunner to learn when and when not to utilize the second shot - no repeats of sword mechanics.

1. It doesn't make sense physically and 2. I do not want to feel any bit like a swordsman. The second shot / final is desirable when you need burst damage (kill mender before it bubbles)

-1 to all except antigua changes and alchemers splits not affecting blocks and switches.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:58

#17

Kalaina-Elderfall

I don't play PvP so I'm

I don't play PvP so I'm responding from PvE context.

I wouldn't buff alchemers. They're plenty good, but they're a bit of an acquired taste with getting the bounces to fall where you want them to.

I wouldn't change Blitz at all. It's fine as it is, an incredibly powerful gun that's incredibly difficult to wield.

Magnus I agree. It needs a buff to range, damage, or even a third bullet, and I don't think it would become overpowered.

Valiance is the Levi of guns, and instead of making any other changes I'd give it a charge attack worthy of the Levi.

Pulsar, I wouldn't mind a range nerf on the Polaris in a vs enemies context since I rarely use the full range and sometimes would like them to explode sooner. Utility though, sometimes I like that range for hitting switches and the like so I'd miss that.

Antiguas I think rather than going single-damage-type they should get a buff to damage in both types, keeping their niche but making them more appealing. Nobody really cares about the damage guns deal to monsters they aren't type-effective against (unless it's your sidearm), so there's no reason to hold back. I doubt making it a better sidearm would be a problem, either.

Catalyzer line I'm unfamiliar with and don't know what to suggest.

The normal-typed guns, eh, there are normal-typed swords nobody uses. The issue of normal-typed guns being bad should be extended to all weapons.

And no "final shot does something different" effects. Doesn't make any sense and doesn't fit with the gameplay.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 04:29

#18

Jontlemen

@ The Rawrcake awww, not even

@ The Rawrcake
awww, not even the Magnus line consistency changes? One of the main reasons to use the gun is its ability to knockdown lighter enemies, when it loses that due to too many party members it loses much of its usefulness.

I think ASI influences reload times indirectly since they start doing the reload animation a little sooner.

When I said the Polaris was too powerful, I was mostly talking about it in PvP and not necessarily DPS-wise, shock is a death-knell much of the time and heaven help you if you get two people spamming one chokepoint. In PvP Polaris is obviously OP, in PvE, probably not so much, but I do think it is a little too effective vs. turrets, the poor things don't even get a chance to fight back.

Do you even get a chance to kill menders before they bubble? I was under the impression it was chance based and instant.

Also the second shot not making sense? This game deals with fantasy science and magic, it is unnecessary for there to be a reason the final shot does more damage, but if you just don't like it then that's ok.

@K-E
Usually I feel that Volt and Cryo lines give me more damage overall compared to the Nova and Shadow lines since their immobility makes it easier for me to line up ricochets, so I felt that their charges and ricochets could be increased to compensate.

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Gun Buff Extravaganza!!!