Spiral Knights - "Heroic" 5* Star Items (Token bonus from future content to help balance / make existing gear unique)

"Heroic" 5* Star Items (Token bonus from future content to help balance / make existing gear unique)

13 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 10:38

The-Rawrcake

In a thread asking about 6* gear and tier 4, I came up with an idea.

For our new boss / Tier 4 core content, make the token gear not be gear. Instead, make it some "Heroic" material.

At an alchemy machine, placed in one of the open arcade spots with an NPC that will tell you about the core's T4 content etc, you can take an item finished at its path (5* items / RSS included because it stops at 4* and all those other ones) of at least 4* (no cautery swords etc.) and make a "heroic" version of it crafted with some CE + that "Heroic" material and that material only.

The weapon remains 5* star and same exact graphics so it is cheap and easy for OOO to implement, no new names either, and we don't go "uggghhh time to farm for another item" which is nice because OOO made their game not based on farming.

The item will be tagged so people know it is heroic. For example, a heroic Valiance will be "Valiance (H)" instead of being named "Valiance"

And now this would also help for balancing:

Instead of making another 6* version of crap weapons, make the "Heroic" special mechanic bonus or little number bonus if it is already balanced help balance the unbalanced items:

"Wild Hunting Blade (H)" and in its description, a snippit of text: "Heroic Special: Wild Hunting Blade will deal more damage to beasts."

Have this extra beast damage be equal to a bonus that piercing damage weapon gets on beasts. This would make the Wild Hunting Blade actually good on beasts without completely changing the item.

So... is there problems with this? Another idea:

"Neutralizer (H)" with its heroic description: "Heroic Special: Charged bullets have a chance to envelop the enemy with two bullets instead of one"

That doesn't make it OP, it is only a chance which can be changed as needed, and buffs an unbalanced item.

What do you think?

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 12:47

Holonimbus

First post! +1

Haha, this is great - not quite what I expected from the topic name :P
It seems that they would be kinda like UVs...except that you wouldn't have to mass craft/spend *&!@loads of actual $ to get UVs you actually want :))))
And no, I don't think it would be overpowered at all; as you said, it wouldn't really change the mechanics of the game much. But, question: for a piece of gear, how many HS's can it have at once? Would you be able to choose which HS you get, or is it random, like getting UVs? Or would there only be one possible HS for every piece of gear?
Oh, and one more, would they only be applied to 5* gear, or to any gear you like?

Also, I suggest that instead of an (H) after the name, you have a small icon (a small red flag, maybe?) kinda like the UV icons, that's placed at the end of the name...or maybe on the bottom right, as opposed to the UVs being on the bottom left.

Although I could see there being problems with this actually be considered...most people see the words 'Tier 4' and look away, just because it doesn't seem like it will ever happen...(you should say something about the Heroic special in the title *nudge*

Anyways, great idea, I hope this gets some notice

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 20:42

The-Rawrcake

Ok, got a new title that is

Ok, got a new title that is less boring I think.

@Holo: "a piece of gear, how many HS's can it have at once? Would you be able to choose which HS you get, or is it random, like getting UVs? Or would there only be one possible HS for every piece of gear?
Oh, and one more, would they only be applied to 5* gear, or to any gear you like?"

For every 5* it can only have one Heroic alchemization. There is one and one Heroic version special bonus only per 5* / end of path 4* item. That special bonus is going to make that item unique. It is not going to be "blah blah damage" or "blah blah asi" unless the item really needs balancing. This is not going to be random like UVs, you buy the token material, you alchemize the original 5* into the heroic version, you get a good bonus. No luck applied, you work for it, you get it.

And finally, they should not be applied to low star gear. 1. It needs to be unique, and uniqueness should only come with its final path. and 2. This token "heroic" material -> alchemization of a heroic item is going to be new, harder content so it should not be used on anything less than 5*.
And at last 3. Only 5* / end of line 4* items so tier 1 and 2 lockdown is not more rich oriented.
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Here are my examples:

"Valiance (H)" - in its description, mention its new bonus "Heroic Special: Valiance's bullets have a chance to interrupt enemy attacks"

"Wild Hunting Blade (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Wild Hunting Blade will deal extra damage to beasts as if it dealt piercing damage"

"Neutralizer (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Neutralizer's charged bullets have a chance to envelop enemies with two bullets instead of one"

"Triglav (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Triglav's charge attack will now deal greatly increased damage to monsters that have been frozen by its swings" (The blade itself must have frozen it, second swing or the charge makes the freeze actually useful)

"Sudaruska (H)" - sorry for bad spelling, but in description: "Heroic Special: Sudaruska's normal attacks now deal increased damage to any stunned target" (Any stunned target, not just from the blade's stun to help make up for not stunning on second swing)

"Biohazard (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Biohazard's charges bullets have a slight chance to instantly envelop the target in 6 bullets"

"Cold Iron Vanquisher (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Cold Iron Vanquisher will deal extra damage to undeads as if it dealt elemental damage"

"Leviathan Blade (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Leviathan's charge attack also shoots a weaker, extended wave which also knocks back enemies"
(copy pasted from description: "the blows from this mythical sword are said to rain down upon its victims like the water from a tidal wave." so this means this is what people were hearing - the heroic version of leviathan. So like a wave goes out after the charge attack as well, increasing its range but doesn't deal much damage unless close)
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So here are some ideas, I used multiple weapons from the same lines so people get where I am going:

It will make weapons more unique.

Biohazard vs. Neutralizer: neut will more frequently get its double bullet chance while Biohazard has a small chance to own something. Neutralizer's will be more powerful, because it needs a buff. Biohazard's will make it more unique and possible at times very deadly.

WHB is actually made good on beasts now, as this "Heroic" idea would also help balancing.
CIV would actually be more useful on undead now as well.
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TL;DR - You will not understand where I am going unless you read the entire post. This idea will be simple to implement with future content, will help in making "copied models" and weapons with copied mechanics more unique and set apart from eachother, and will also greatly help in balancing.

Simple to implement because: No new models, no ridiculous OP token weapons or ridiculous UP token weapons making balancing harder, and no having to come up with new names for every weapon.

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 21:03

Blue-Phaze

+1 This is awesome ^^ My goal

+1
This is awesome ^^ My goal in this game is to take all my gear to 5 stars, after that i'll probably quit SK. but if this was implemented I'd probably stay for a lil while longer :3

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 21:33

The-Rawrcake

Awesome. Looks like this

Awesome. Looks like this didn't turn out too bad :>

Do devs read the posts in the forums though as well as the titles? I'd hate to go into general discussion to say something like this then have people upset I did that so devs could see

Sun, 01/08/2012 - 21:42

Blue-Phaze

I heard they do look at the

I heard they do look at the titles, but only get to read threads about "popular" themes (like pets)
If you want their attention, you should get more people to talk about this or at least make this stay on the first page for some weeks...

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 16:04

Iceeboy

+1, except make it so the material can't be sold? Because if it can, it will just make the 20k ce buyers even more OP. And all of us must make up some things for the Heroic version of stuff so OOO doesnt have to as much. {BTW I'm in a hurry here, so dont mind any grammatical mistakes or mispellings.}

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 17:24

Holonimbus

Okay, I see. That's what I thought you meant, but I wasnt sure...

@Iceeboy
Ya I agree, they should be like tokens, so theyre untradable :)

Oh, and @The-Rawrcake, Im not sure if they actually look inside topics - it kinda seems that they mostly just skim thru topic names, and may only actually check in them every once in a (long/very occasional) while :/

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 19:48

Orzy

support!~ and can we add

support!~ and can we add something more cute stuffs (in terms of weapons) if there is gonna be T4 :$

Mon, 01/09/2012 - 22:34

Ultrapop

Love it

I love the idea of the Levi blade energy wave knocking back the enemies :)
Fantastic!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 02:04

#10

Uuni

""Triglav (H)" - in

""Triglav (H)" - in description: "Heroic Special: Triglav's charge attack will now deal greatly increased damage to monsters that have been frozen by its swings" (The blade itself must have frozen it, second swing or the charge makes the freeze actually useful)

These seem a rather weak additions. When triglavs freeze is already a hindering status because it leaves you vulnerable why not something more useful. Something like: Triglav charge attacks sends out a shockwave that knocks surrounding targets in to air or just immobilizes them for few seconds. Currently landing the charge attack ensures enemy getaway if it fails to kill or freezes them allowing them to beat you up while you recover so it could really use a buff

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:06

#11

The-Rawrcake

Uuni that would be very hard

Uuni that would be very hard to balance and even implement into the game.

What I think would be good is if it was a great buff to damage (not talking tiny) on the charge attack to frozens

And now make it so it does not require the blade's own freeze. This way, if someone used shiver you could utilize a massive AoE Charge attack on a tightly-packed group of mobs.

remember, we do not want to overpower things - just make em a bit more unique / useful.

We have to accept that not all weapons will be up there and will be laggers - it'd be nice to see them more unique like the neutralizer for example, my favorite gun because of uniqueness

Sudaruska or however you spell it is set aside from Triglav with this heroic buff because suda's normal attacks are good on stunneds and triglav's charge attack is good on freezeds

Also, it is a lot easier to get behind / position a Triglav charge attack if they are already frozen.

Despite what most usually hear, you aren't vulnerable literally every time you use the charge attack. I've seen it used multiple times just fine. ASI also helps speed charge attacks up.

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:18

#12

Neodasus

You have to consider lockdown

You have to consider lockdown balance

Heroic UVs would have to be disabled or fit to balance by the devs

most of the time when they see these threads, they just go with the base idea and no specifics

Thu, 01/26/2012 - 19:34

#13

Iron-Volvametal

Pffft, what?

Since when does Lockdown have Balance?

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"Heroic" 5* Star Items (Token bonus from future content to help balance / make existing gear unique)