Spiral Knights - Knight Creation Improvements

Knight Creation Improvements

48 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:12

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

After having created several characters and come to the conclusion that character colors are too limiting, I've begun to wonder what could be done to improve the overall character creation. Sure, the method for choosing colors is terribly limiting, and I'm sure there are many threads saying just that. But, I want to go a step farther and ask, "What could be changed, or should be changed, and how would I change it?" Now, I don't hold myself as the greatest authority of video game character creation interfaces - yeah, I know what I'd like to change, but I'll get to that in a minute - right now I want to hear what the other players of Spiral Knights have to say about Knight Creation. I want to hear your opinions, your fresh ideas and brilliant revisions, whether they sound brilliant or not. My hope is that Three Rings Design will change that interface. After all, the game is still in its early stages, why not try and improve it before it gets locked into a mold?

So, I see the interface as several parts. There's the Starting Equipment, the color theme, and the name. While these categories are rather broad, they are, as I see it, the main methods of starting character manipulation. Once you've chosen these things, they're permanent (well, not the armor...but you have to keep it whether you wear it or not. Or, is that something you'd want changed?). These traits are what define your character, other than your actions and achievements. Thus, they are (for now) the only categories. Have some other ones you'd like added? Speak your mind!

Here's what I think:

- Starting Equipment
I found the starting equipment good, but I still feel like more options would be nice. I mean, how hard can it be to add a few extra costumes? They all do the same thing anyways, right? Seeing a ton of starting characters who are all wearing the same armor is a pain, especially if EVERYONE favors only one option. A little addition here could go a long way.

- Color Themes
The "Design" swap was a terrible idea. Why limit the colors a person can choose when it's not that difficult to just let them choose their own colors? After all, most of the later-game armor is set to a specific color, right? So why not just let people choose their own colors? The way I see it, theres an armor main color, an armor secondary color, and a character color (the two "Design" colors and the "Personal Color", respectively).Now, I don't just want three bars of a certain saturation and varying hue; the "Personal Color" picker is still very limiting. I see many alternatives that would be better than the limiting choice available now, not all of which have to be continuous in form (ie, there are better options if you only want discreet colors). You could use the traditional "Microsoft Paint" method: have a small window with hue vs saturation, and then have a bar to the left that lets you pick brightness. Or, you could take the "Photoshop" approach: the same window with brightness vs saturation, and the same small bar for hue. Better yet, you could take the "SAI Paint Tool" approach: circular hue chooser, surrounding the brightness vs saturation palette. If you're looking to be "discrete" in your options, (haha, math joke) at least give players a range of colors that includes variable saturation and brightness; the one you gave for "Personal Color" is pathetic. If I want a dark blue with little saturation, I'm SOOL. In any case, changes are in order, and I hope Three Rings takes different approaches into consideration.

- Character Name
My beef here is simple: let people use other characters. Why do all of the names need to start with a capital letter and follow up with all lowercase? Why can't people use periods or underscores? All you've done is limit the number of people who can play the game with a legit-sounding name. Additionally, there can't be people with similar names; for example, if I have a character named "Person" (which I do) nobody else can have a variant. There can't be a "Person142" or a "P3rs0n" or even "I_am_a_person". Other characters should be available, and yet, thy aren't. I REALLY REALLY hope you guys allow more characters for the names (and hopefully also spaces, since having a character named "Ramunedrink" can be confusing...

- Gender
Okay...this category isn't in the list I gave earlier, but I did say to add others where you think they're needed, right? Anyways, gender discerning in this game is truly difficult...usually the colors are the only hint you have (unless they wear that one helmet with the ponytails...). I can understand gender ambiguity in a game (eliminates discrimination?), and I know that Spiral Knights certainly has quite a bit of gender ambiguity. Maybe it's intentional; in that case, great. Leave it how it is. If Three Rings WANTS more clarity, then here's how I'd go about changing it and why: creating either a little tag next to a character that shows gender when you play would be helpful, thus a character selection change is needed to accommodate this. Just a bit of choice scripting, boy or girl. It would be by far the easiest change I've brought up in this thread, but I think it would save (incompetent) people (like me) from continually mixing up the genders of my own friends...a big deal if you hope to keep them.

- Stats/Abilities
I know I said I only had three categories, but the more I type, the more changes I think of. Funny, isn't it? First off, I should probably say that yes, I know there aren't stats OR abilities in Spiral Knights. I should also clarify: I LIKE it that way. It's cool to think that the only thing separating me from the best player is a few layers of polygonal armor (I'm a terrible player, and also terribly competitive...). But, I think that characters should be defined by an attribute that separates them from other characters right from the start; a character trait other than color, name, or starting armor that will define them from other characters permanently. I see several options: variable starting ability, variable starting stats, or variable starting weapon. I'll explain variable starting weapons first, since it'll make the most sense.
Traditionally, characters start with a gun and a sword, with the option of buying bombs later on. What if they only got one of the three? It would be a huge difference in the way a character starts their build: what do you want to be? Do you want to be a demo expert? A gunslinger? A swashbuckler? There would be some setbacks; obviously, bombers would have trouble on their first few runs...but I think it'd be a neat change to let people choose their weapon, and it'd be an easy way to let them define themselves right from the start.
Abilities...I hesitate typing this section, mostly because introducing abilities or stats is one of the quickest ways to either unbalance or overcomplicate a game that I already adore. But, having characters that are different based on a definite advantage and a definite weakness is also very important to me. Here's one suggestion: let people choose their weakness and their advantage. It could be as simple as a rectification of elemental cycles (Pokemon-esque, I know). It'd be a neat addition to run around with your friends and then encounter a fire-type enemy and suddenly find all but one of you is running away! Or, having one character try and defend the other from a certain element; it's terribly exciting.
Skills: The idea of an ability could be different, though. What if each character could choose to have certain armor or weapon bonuses? I'd want a character with Sword Attack Speed Increase: Low and Weak Against Slimes: Low, or something like that. Sort of an automatic "natural" weapon bonus. I realize, of course, that people could instantly Min/Max their characters to be invincible killing machines, but you could balance it out: weakness against slimes is always high, but resistance to stun or something is low. Oh, and there definitely needs to be an ability for increased movement speed! I want to run faster!

I think that about concludes my rant on the character creation process, but I'd like to hear other opinions. Please, try to follow the format I've set out, and PLEEAASE, no "That's a good idea." or "^This". I hate it when people just ditto the previous response. At the very least, say why you like the former example and what you'd like to add to their contribution or idea. Thanks for reading!

And now I ask you, what would you do differently?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:27

Metaknight

would be nice to pick from a

would be nice to pick from a set of starting bonuses that would help you tailor your character slightly (and maybe give you a reason to use another character slot), a permanent character UV of sorts:

- survivor (health +1)
- defender (increased shield health: low)
- swordsman (increased sword damage: low)
- bomber (increader bomb damage: low)
- sharpshooter (increased hangun damage: low)
- etc.

really minor bonuses that might give you a slight hand early on, but shouldn't matter much later in the game. maybe even a new class of bonus called "very low" if those would prove to be too strong of a help later on in the game.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:34

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Yeah...

This sorta fits in with another thread I just started for that very purpose! I totally agree with you about the starting ability thing...but there needs to be a weakness, too, right? Anyways, I'd like to hear opinions on the interface, rather than stats as much. You should go check out the other thread I made if you want to talk about that kind of stuff. Thanks!

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 10:37

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Here's another category I just thought of:

Race.
Yes, it's gimmickey, but hey! Who here has not secretly thought to themselves, "Man, those gremlins are pretty cool! I wish I could play as them." or "I LOOVE those mecha knight thinks...I would totally play as one if I could!". Why not? Heck you can already use wrench wands, and that's getting pretty close to playing as a gremlin straight up. And one of the NPCs does say there are good gremlins, right?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 18:17

Sketchytexas

Legacy Username

@RamuneDrink

Just look at Emberlight.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 06:13

Sunflash

Legacy Username

Well here's something to

Well here's something to consider: Make a point to having more than one knight, THEN worry about customazing them.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 06:35

Quiiliitiila

Sunflash, I don't see your

Sunflash,
I don't see your point... So I have to have multiple Knights before I am allowed to want to customize them? Do you know how many copies of my character I saw run by me the other day?

I fully support this idea, there SHOULD be a way to customize ALL types of armour, from the first set to the last. RamuneDrink's idea of the 3 or 4 color sets was a good one. If each set of armour has 4 areas that can have the color altered by players, then we can start to see some real customization going. In fact it can possibly add another aspect to the game, why not have a dyeing station where players can mix and match dyes that they find in the clockworks? Certain dyes can be rarer than others and some may be only found when fighting... say Pitt Bosses! Coffee brown?

The reason that I see customization as so important is because this game has nothing but armour and weapons! What else is there to separate you from any other Tom, Dick or Harry?

-Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 07:22

Archon

I would've loved this amount

I would've loved this amount of choice to start off with, with nay RPG I always look forward to player choice and character customization....something thats unfortunately vanishing from all of today's RPGs.

But the point being I like this idea, I alone would like even just the color and value idea, I was so disappointed when I saw that even white and black colors/values weren't option for character customization. I have no clue why colors are so limited..any PC that can run this game in any form has the ability to handle millions (literally) of different colors, heck PCs in the mid 90's achieved this!...So why be so stingy in the color choice department in a current day game?

And its not like they have to remake character textures, Ill tell you people who have no clue how it works, in any game where you get a multitude of team colors or interchangeable colors on a character those patches where the color is inserted are a neutral grey patches where a computers hardware will simpily apply a digital color thats separate from the texture. In other words your computer is adding in these colors not the textures. And since even the most underpowered of PCs in this day and age can handle millions of different colors theres no reason we cant have access to more character customization colors at all.

Nuff said.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 08:03

adrian783

Legacy Username

I find your suggestions to be

I find your suggestions to be just fluff. Making what you suggested increases the workload of the developers by a ton, without comparable benefits. Stats and abilities goes against the core concept of this game, so I'd like to do without those as well.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 08:12

Quiiliitiila

adrian783, Fluff? How can

adrian783,
Fluff? How can character customization be fluff in a game that revolves around armor and weapons? I understand your trepidations about abilities, but letting players customize their armour? What else is there that separates player from player? No classes, no races, no abilities or defining features. The only thing that makes us different is the same thing that makes us all the same! If the developers wanted to encourage the idea that they started (your armour makes you different) then they should consider allowing for greater customization for all armours, just color at the least.

-Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 09:11

#10

Metaknight

character customization adds

character customization adds way less value for the developers buck, than say, new / improved game content. who cares if you see a bunch of people that look like you in Haven -- once you're in the clockworks, that hardly matters, doesn't it? i rather they spend their time on new levels / enemies / challenges, thank you very much.

if you want to make yourself so distinct, play some sort of frilly dressup MMO.

EDIT: to be clear i'm just talking about the colors / costume nonsense, not the other ideas

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:24

#11

adrian783

Legacy Username

to quiil: pretty much what

to quiil:

pretty much what djbiznatch said. i would love to see more customization, but i would much rather seeing game content, bug fixes, and balancing first.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 11:25

#12

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

@Quiiliitiila: Thank you for

@Quiiliitiila:
Thank you for your support! Glad to see someone who can relate and then back up their opinions!

@djbiznatch & @adrian783:
Have you ever played an MMO that didn't involve SOME SORT of customization? I mean, wouldn't it be really boring if every character was EXACTLY THE SAME in both looks and ability? I could never play an MMO that boring! Let's face it, WoW has clothing and armor, as well as character customization. MapleStory lets you change armor and modify basic statistics. In fact, Spiral Knights, at this point, is the only game I've ever played with so LITTLE variation in characters. Okay, I can agree, I'd like to play more content, levels, enemies, etc. but heck, I haven't even gotten to Tier 2 yet. Maybe once I'm already taking out Lord What's-his-face nightly and I've collected every possible weapon and arm, then I'll ask for more content. But you know what? I'm sure more content will come out LOOONG before I can even get to Tier 3, IF I get to Tier 3. Until then I'm going to ask for more character customization. It's not like it'd be super difficult, either. Just add some colors or give us a continuous data selection, let us type other characters for our Names, and let us specify gender. Then, if you want to get fancier (though it still would only take a day or two of coding, IME) toss in some extra starting armor and add some simple abilities. Just by adding a continuous colour palette the possible variations of Knights increases tenfold (well, in actuallity it'd probably be more in the thousands, seeing as there are technically three colors...). Add in more armor and you could triple or quadruple that amount. Then, differentiate characters not only in looks; add in some minor abilities, one or two strengths and weaknesses, just as if the Knight were permanently equipped with an invisible weapon/arm that contains the bonus. Is it that hard? And then you say there wouldn't be comparable benefits. I would have so many more characters if these options were implemented. In fact, character customization is a key strategy for getting people to play an MMO. Without the current amount of character customization Spiral Knights would be just another dungeon crawler; my belief is it'd be excruciatingly boring. By adding more customization you INCREASE THE INVESTMENT OF PLAYERS BEFORE THEY ACTUALLY START PLAYING, big deal, no? Extra content won't get players hooked as quickly or as early as changing up the character creation process, AND it'd probably take less time to code and create. What do you think?

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:15

#13

adrian783

Legacy Username

personally, i think there are

personally, i think there are enough variation already where it counts. and that's in Haven. Haven is split up into many instances, so the benefit of customization is consequently reduces since any given person won't see over 20 (and that's generous) people in their screen at any given time. Counting the options to wear armors as costumes, that well exceeds the number you'll see on your screen.

The game has little variations in characters because the game doesn't need it.

For names, you're allow 2 Dashes between every 2 or more letters, and the game automatically capitalizes the letter after the dash. So like
De-La-Croix <-ok
I-M-Awesome <-not ok, needs more letter after I and M
etc.

As for abilities, like I said, I don't approve them of.

Finally, coding these things is not just some one-liner like when you do your homework. Add some function, hit compile. Games need testing, and other stuff.

edit:i should clarify, you're allowed 2 dashes total.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:00

#14

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Good reply! So, the thing

Good reply!
So, the thing that irks me about characters that are all the same is mostly when you start the game. Remember the Rescue Camp? When everyone was either blue or red and wore the Spiral Sallet? Yeah. Even in Haven, if you're running across the top of the Arcade and then across the Bazaar, you can run into two or even three look-alikes, depending on what colors you chose and what armor you're wearing.
The dashes...THANK YOU SOOO MUCH! GONNA TRY DOING THAT RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
As for abilities, just because you don't approve of them doesn't mean they shouldn't exist. It be simple to just let people choose whether or not they want abilities. I know I want them, if you don't, then you don't have to use them.
Finally, coding is beyond me. Obviously you seem to have more experience than me on the subject, but I still have to disagree with your last statement. If they need to test the game, all they gotta do is add a patch and ask the players what they think. This game is NEW. It's like Genesis from that one Star Trek movie. If they find a bug, it gets reported FASTER with the whole community playing the game. If there's something that needs to be changed, it gets discovered right off the bat. You underestimate the power of excited, angry gamers!

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 12:33

#15

Quiiliitiila

djbiznatch, adrian783, I

djbiznatch, adrian783,

I agree that the game should have more levels and content, but as RamuneDrink has said: why play a game when you don't even have much control of what your character looks like? As I said before, the game is unique in the fact that what separates you from the other players are your choices of armour and weapons. However, because of the lack of equipment that is viable for player use; this option is strained to the point of ridiculousness. Do you see the amount of people wearing some type of Wolver outfit? It's like we're all clones of each other! Now if we were to just have a simple color selection for all of the armour gained, we could start to see an increase of unique characters and more character loyalty. I mean, why should I stick with one character over the other? I can make another just like him in seconds and play alongside hundreds of others just like me. It's not about playing a frilly dress up mmo, it's about bringing this game up to the customization standards of ALL the other halfway decent mmos. It's not the fact that I see other people who look like me (well not to an extent) but it's just the fact that I can never be completely unique.

As for the names, I just don't understand the reason we can't have spaces... I know that you can have a dash, but why not a simple space?

-Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 14:17

#16

Metaknight

seriously?

" Why play a game when you can't control what your character looks like? "

How about because its fun?

I'm not here to Mary Sue myself into a new life/existence lived vicariously through avatar. I'm here because the gameplay is fun and keeps me coming back. I'm not worried about how I stand out against others. Again, it really only matters in Haven. I guess you guys just have such flamboyant personalities and are just the most beautiful, unique little butterflies that you *can't stand* to look too much like everyone else. Man, I won't conform to the system! DONT OPPRESS ME BRO!

Character customization is something thats gotten popular in recent years, but is it needed? No, not really. Is it a nice thing to have? Sure. But I'm not going to turn down a game or stop playing because I can't wield an umbrella and wear purple galoshes. I've played games since I was a wee one, and lets see.. 98% of those had no character customization beyond maybe name entry / stats / how you equip yourself in the game. Did that matter? No. They were awesome games. Its not the color of your speed shoes that matters, its how you use them!

The bigger problem is that too many people use the same armor sets, so everyone you see has a Wolver series mask, Volcanic whatsamagig, etc etc. There is plenty of good looking armor, and people should use costume slots, but most people can't afford to get gear just to look good, they need to get the best gear to survive. And since not all armor is alike (ie. balanced / as useful as other sets), then people are going to gravitate towards the same few helms/armors/shields. And then we have a bunch of look alikes. If they make everything (more) useful in their own special way, then maybe people will look more different without the hassle of all these color combos and what-have-you you want to throw in the game.

TL;DR version:

Costume slot: Use it.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 15:21

#17

Quiiliitiila

djbiznatch, I've been playing

djbiznatch,

I've been playing RPGs all my life and the one thing that has always mattered is what makes your character unique. It's just part of the gaming experience that should not be thrown away or neglected as it has here.

ANY HALFAY DECENT GAME HAS A LEVEL OF CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION

Sure a game can be fun without it, but for us "flamboyant personalities" they are not complete. Heck I've been playing DnD for most of my life and I have been a LARPer for almost 7 years now. Guess what part of those games is incredibly important? Sure in a LARP we can all run around wearing the same stuff and just know that we are different on the inside, but that's not what makes it fun. What makes it fun is the time and effort you come up with creating your own unique persona, and that includes what you look like. If everyone were restricted to the same 10 pieces of gear, who would still have as much fun doing it as they did before? The same thing goes for DnD or any other pen and paper RPGs, character customization is paramount.

Now when we branch off into online RPGs, the idea stays the same. Character customization remains important. If this game were to have a class system, then the argument could be made that your class choice and armour makes you unique. Ok that's fine, but this game has no classes. What makes you unique is your choice of gear. I've been saying it throughout this thread, if you have a game that revolves around armour, you should have a TON of armour and ways to customize it. It's just that simple. If this game had a lot more armour and different spots to place the armour (hands, feet, pauldrons, greaves, etc.) then the need for color customization (which is all we're asking for) would go away.

-Quiiliitiila
Flamboyant Personality
Wielder of Umbrella and Wearer of Purple Goulashes

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:20

#18

Metaknight

Oh god as soon as you

Oh god as soon as you mentioning LARPing I threw up in my mouth a little.

This explains much. So I'll just uh.. be moving along now.

My final word: The only color customization I think is practical right now is tweaking the color settings you set during character creation. Should be easy to implement and a pretty benign change in general -- lets hope they do so all those threads stop. Everything else is fluff. But feel free to bark about it until you can't no more! :)

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:31

#19

Quiiliitiila

Well glad that's over; the

Well glad that's over; the only one barking here was you, we were having a good conversation on something we liked until you came along and started insulting us.

-Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 17:41

#20

Metaknight

uh, i was actually in this

uh, i was actually in this thread before you were, honey

also sounded like adrian had the same point of view as me, maybe he was just more respectful about it

but whatever, you guys keep on keepin' on!

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 18:15

#21

Critical

It's not always about the looks (and you'll see what I mean)

Well, I can see I'd add on the following with your suggestions:

- In addition to the Unique Variants, their text colors change depending on the UV Bonus level (Low, Medium, High, etc.) and there would be an afterglow to your weapon to signify a Unique Variant, also variant to the UV Bonus Level and the UV Type.
- The Tutorial level SHOULD give players a bomb as well to test out what weapon they would like to main right away (when normally, you start with a sword and gun), and patch the tutorial so that they can show how the bomb work.

The rest you'll read is an epic battle of major proportions. You ready for this?

Character names, eh. I'd leave them as they are. It forces people to be a bit more creative with names instead of bashing numbers and names randomly like some hacker. It ruins the atmosphere when you come by across a name in the zone/trade chat with a name that's hard to remember because it's 'Ajfsooijgadfa' or something like that.

Now about your abilities ideas on the other hand...

While this is an MMO, the emphasis this game tries to make is a game where you can pick up and play right from the start. Nothing too complex like Dungeons and Dragons. Nothing too overpowered either like those natural bonuses you were mentioning. Heck, something you can show your friends to and they can also hop into the action right from the start as well. It seems as the Spiral Knight's formula for the gameplay mechanics is simple, and fun. Just your run of the mill Legend of Zelda 2D style turns into an MMORPG. Did you ever had to worry about natural bonuses or what class you wanted to be in Legend of Zelda? No, you did not. You were free to do what you want without the stress of having the best gear around. It's more based on the player's skill which lets them tackle a dungeon head on with low quality equipment and still come out successful. If you wanted more customization and the depth / importance of stat distributions, this game might not be your potential revenue for the type of RPG you crave for (but of course, we are all on here to enjoy Spiral Knights, heh heh).

Spiral Knights always had its' charm for the simplicity factor. Even the admin Nick was praising how he finally made this game and would always dream about a Zelda type / dungeon crawling game to go online and would also be able to pick up and play right away. I'm frank to say but I'd have to disagree with some of you on the natural bonus factor. The next thing I want to have in my mind is "I want to beat that dungeon so bad!" and not "Oh no, I picked the wrong class! Now I have to make another character."

With more customization comes consequences. If you've enjoyed the game as it is now, my recommendation is leave the gameplay formula as it is, and make some tweaks around it.

Now aesthetic customization on the other hand, I feel indifferent about it. Actually, I like the customization the way it is with equipment and I hone in on GAMEPLAY as the most important feature. If you really want to look like a girl so badly or a cool dude you saw from your Japanese animes so much, you work hard for it. Get your recipes, energy, and materials for it. It's another aspect of the game that makes it enjoyable. While I do feel bad that you can't distinguish gender from Spiral Knights (just ponytails only? Come on Three Rings...), it was probably meant for the best. That way, the main focus now would be to find players who are enjoyable to talk with and know how to dungeon run instead of inviting them because they are said so genders. It comes quite in handy reducing the sexual harassment problems! As of now, sure, with the current gear out there's not too much customization out there but I forgive this game because it's new and it honed down the basics on their gameplay mechanics so well, I could just overlook those features. Besides, they're robots and not humans. If you wanted more customization, we'd have to add clothes to them now won't we? Heh heh heh.

I just don't want you guys to get too crazy about the appearance of your characters. You've stayed playing this game because it's fun, right? It takes gameplay and people to keep any MMO running with their feet. I really do believe these aesthetic features can limit some player's creativity with WOLVER SETS everywhere, but you could always mix things around by taking advantage of the customize slots. But if it isn't enough for some of you people, then we will just have to deal with it. The game is still new as well. It's almost no different from a gamer saying "I only play games because of the graphics!". That's an extreme from the point I'm trying to get across. Heck, I still think Three Rings should tweak up on some more bugs and gameplay issues first before diving into customization with armor. In time, there will be new gear that will come out and new places to dungeon run and maybe Three Rings will throw a surprise at us. While I like most of the original poster's ideas, I'd have to be most critical about the abilities section.

@Quiiliitiila

>ANY HALFAY DECENT GAME HAS A LEVEL OF CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION

True, but any halfway decent game has a STRONG level of Gameplay Mechanics. The feel of when you pick up the game and play is a lot more important than a few, limited pieces of armor. I mean, I'd expect human characters to have so many features but robot like characters don't necessarily need a whole lot of customization. Plus, if the current equipment system is simple and it works, I say just leave it as it is. With the exception of maybe changing your colors to whenever you want in game would be nice, who you act out as in the chats is plenty of customization enough to me.

I'm just personally not so picky about the appearances of characters as much, just as long as they have a system that works (hunt the recipes and craft it yourself), then it's all bread and butter to me.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 18:46

#22

Ezzi

I don't really agree with any

I don't really agree with any of this because it seems like you just want to change the entire game.

~Colours could be done better but not really a priority
~Having symbols and stuff in names sounds like a bad idea
~Having more 0* equipment sounds like a bad idea
~Gender doesn't really matter and it's easy to tell the difference if you're that concerned
~Abilities that people specialize in is already in the game in form with the different charge attacks and weapon choices
~Skills are basically what's already in the game but you just can't be bothered UV hunting on weapons you can actually make to make good combos. It's a privilege not a right.

The run speed increase sounds interesting but it'd make the game pretty unbalanced if you're running around twice as fast as everyone else. Not to mention that if everyone has the same amount of blocks, running speed, health before armor etc it's easier to tweak mechanics.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 19:10

#23

Quiiliitiila

djbiznatch, Look, I'm sorry

djbiznatch,
Look, I'm sorry if I insulted or exasperated you. It's just that I (and other's) have to put up with being insulted and flamed at for almost everything we post. I play a few other MMOs (Star Trek Online, Champions Online, Istaria) and the same thing happens there as well. I'm not here to make enemies, I just don't appreciate some of the attitude and insult people like to throw around on the forums. It's just a game, and we're discussing it. It just felt like you got a bit... personal with your remarks, and I'll admit some of that may have been my fault for taking the conversation as far as I did. I'm backing off and discontinuing my participation in these forums so there is not a repeat of today's debacle.

-Quiiliitiila

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 20:37

#24

Metaknight

no one is trying to insult

no one is trying to insult you for insults sake. well ok, i did, and I'm sorry about that. but no one is flaming you just because they're a griefer or you're a noob or whatever. its more about myself and others defending the game against radical / unrealistic / gamebreaking changes, because we enjoy the game as is and where we see it going in the future. i know your change is not really going to destroy the game, but for petes sake, is it really something every player cares about? i think the devs need to cater to the masses more than the few.. it would be interesting to have voting / surveys / something so we could gauge interest in an idea, but even then, its more up to the devs and their map for the future. we might have some say, but they are not going to implement every bell and whistle we throw at them. so if someone comes along with some pipe dreams of what could be, i like to take my pessimism stick and give them a dose of reality! prove me wrong devs, prove me wrong..

anyways, no need to /quit the forum because you and I had a pretty mild tiff IMHO. chillax.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:08

#25

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

OK,

So, first off, I'd like to put an end to flaming in the suggestions thread. If it sounds like a bad idea, say so and say why (thank you, Samm). If it sounds like a great idea, the same applies. But please, if you came here to insult other people, you're on the wrong forum. The devs can't use insults. Or sarcasm. So if you're here because you want a chance to use those sorts of things in an environment that won't affect you IRL, go back to /b/. If you're here because you like this game and want to make it better by democratically voicing your opinion, please come back...we miss you. Oh, and I think you ought to read this, djbiznatch. You've either completely misunderstood the purpose of this trope, or you're so egotistical you consider yourself the perfect character: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue Oh, and you shouldn't have to worry about TD;DRers after I typed that 1.5K post. If you want to use it as a conclusion to a post, you make yourself sound lazier than your addressee.

Now then,
This post will be predominantly addressed to Samm and Ezzi (btw, are you an Assassin's Creed fan? Hey, me too!) because they were basically the only ones to come up with decent responses.

1. Starting with a bomb: I think it's a great idea, but I didn't mean characters should start with all three weapons available. I meant that characters should choose which weapon they want to start with, and then acquire the others later, if they so choose. Note, this is the closest I want to get to having a class system in this game. As I said, (was that maybe on a different forum? Oh, well) I don't want to make Spiral Knights a WoW/MapleStory clone. I enjoy not having classes, stats, or skills. But part of the allure of such a system is that it adds complexity to a game. I understand that spiral knights is built on the idea of simplicity, but without much variation, the game gets boring quickly (See: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/4337 ). Thus, some complexity is necessary. Now, I'm not asking for a complete skill/stat/class/race system to be implemented (once again, I enjoy the Zelda-esque feel of the game) but I am asking for a few simple changes to the character creation menu. I think the game is already well-built to treat the weapons like a class system, hence the presence of the gunslinger set and the demo set. If a character has to choose what weapon they want to use right from the start, and they make changes later, it adds a lot of variety to the game without sacrificing the simplicity. Hey, it's not like Link starts with the sword, the bombs, and the bow before even reaching the first dungeon, right? But what if he got to choose which one he wanted to start with? It's an interesting idea (but once again, IMO).
"[Just thought I'd point out how ironic it is we're both using LoZ to argue our points...guess we have some common ground, eh?]"

2. Colours: if anything, this is the most ridiculous of discussions. Why can't they update the colors? It wouldn't be hard to do, and I frankly can't see any reason why someone WOULDN'T want it. Just giving players six or so generic color patterns is limiting, and frankly, not that hard to remedy. If anyone truly thinks this is a bad idea, I want to hear why. So far it seems as if people are just saying they don't mind, not actually going against the idea.

3. Names: THis issue has actually seen some opposition. People say they don't want to see names (to quote) such as "Ajfsooijgadfa". Well, you're going to. What I propose is allowing other characters with similar names. Now that there's a significant number of people playing SK, the list of possible and UNDERSTANDABLE names is extremely small. I can't name myself "Cloud" any more. Nor can I name myself "Link" or "Sephiroth". Then, because of the limit on characters, I can't name myself "Link123" or a name that still has some semblance of the original character. Instead, I have to go through the dictionary or the Fire Emblem wiki scanning for cool sounding words and names. Most of which have already been taken. So what do I do after that? Why, I start bashing letters like a hacker, of course! The current system is going to LIMIT the number of sensible names and increase the number of nonsense character combination/abominations. Which, as you've stated (and I agree) are terrible. If anything, give a guy and underscore, a period, some numbers, or AT LEAST A SPACE! What if I want a name that has a first and last part? I could just hyphenate it, but that's not really the same, no? Mostly, I push this issue because I want a character with a specific name that's already been taken. And the closest I can get to that name with the current system makes no sense. So, I want it changed. PLEASE, Super-cool-amazing-awesome-Devs? Can-i-haz-spaces-and-caps? (<-and a question mark?)

4. Abilities: this started as an idea I threw in near the end, and now I'm regretting it. Does that mean I don't want abilities and now I want to change my vote? No, most certainly not. In fact, I still feel like abilities would be a great addition to the game. Think of the Legend of Zelda: Link never specifically gets any abilities, but he earns more moves as the game progresses (at least, in the later versions) and the moves he learns give him decided advantages over specific enemies (and whatnot). Having a small (minute, as in so small it hardly makes a difference) bonus against a specific enemy right from the start that (maybe) improves as you progress would be neat. Here's a better example: in Fable (the PC/XBOX game) your character earns points for using a sword or a bow (later a gun) that improve his ability to wield said weapon. You could choose to use ONLY the gun or ONLY the sword, and you would quickly advance with that weapon. What if SK had a similar ability? Your character starts with a tiny bonus for using a sword that improves over time (or not?). Or maybe there are other ideas out there. Maybe my character is just faster than the rest, so he gets a speed boost, eh? Maybe he's actually slower, but he does more sword damage. Maybe his fighting style involves stealing from enemies before killing them, thus increasing drop rate but decreasing damage amount (as per Link in Wind Waker or the Goblin Pouch in FFn). Yes, I realize they could disrupt the gameplay and cause people to play solely the best "class" after hundreds upon hundreds of hours testing carefully which is the best. But hey, those people are "Stop-Having-Fun-Guys" anyways, so I just ignore them. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys At LEAST add more weapon types (like in Zelda; gimme a hookshot or a boomerang...or some pegasus boots plz?) that comes with those abilities. That way it follows the LoZ mechanic we all seem to adore while adding more interesting content and without adding the (apparently) loathsome class/stat/skill system.

5. Gender: meh, I'm indifferent. Though it'd be helpful to know so that I'm not constantly mixing it up...

6. How characters look: Where did this come from? I don't remember once complaining about my character (or any other for that matter) being too ugly. I hardly care about how my character looks (lies...). I get tired of everyone having frikin wolver sets and looking EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE, but I don't mind (much) how fancy or scary my character is. But, this is an MMO, not the LoZ. Yes, Link is a badass and he's totally ballin with his tunic and his hat. But having an MMO with every character as LINK would get boring as hell. All I want is some differentiation. I want to be able to tell my character apart from the next guy, not just by equipment, but also by what weapons/abilities I use and what he looks like. No more (mister nice guy! No more Mr. Cle-hee-heean!" - sorry...) characters with the same color scheme and the same flipping armor. PLZ?

7. Races: Nobody's talked about this, I assume, because it's sort of a forbidden subject in SK. Perhaps because it's the most unbalancing factor in other MMOs. Or maybe it's just because people like the SK mechanics and want it to retain its offbeat feeling (different from other MMOs). Don't get me wrong, I like the SK mechanics (I feel like a broken record saying that...). But why not have other playable races? I like the gremlins and the mechas. They're unique. Yeah, the knights get to slash and shoot and shield, but can they repair machinery? Do they shock their opponents randomly? It'd be so cool...

8. Ezzi: oh, boy. You sound like those guys who've already cleared every level and gotten the best UVs of every type of equipment...First off, no. I don't want to change the entire game. That's why I play it, instead of other MMOs. The reason I'm here is because I see things that I'd like changed and the Devs are giving me an opportunity to do so. I'm not trying to morph SK into something I don't want it to be (or something YOU don't want it to be), nor am I trying to be some divine prophet enlightening the noob MMO about class/skill/race/stats etc. Heck, I want to change the character allowance in names and the amount of possible colors. Is it really that bad? For starters (lol, sorry for the long intro), well, actually I've already explained my reasoning for most of these ideas...hmmm, where to start...okay, we'll start with "more 0* equipment". Wow, I guess I never thought of it that way. I can understand not wanting more useless equipment in a game, but is it useless if it's used as a costume? Multiple people in this discussion have stated (god forbid, I'm quoting djbiznatch...oh, wait, I'm an atheist. OK, whatevs) "TL;DR version: Costume slot: Use it." or the like (quoting adrian, whom I look up to on the forums "Counting the options to wear armors as costumes, that well exceeds the number you'll see on your screen."). So, think not of them as 0* armor, but a wider array of possible choices in starting (and later costumes) armor. Better? Next...how about "Skills are basically what's already in the game but you just can't be bothered UV hunting on weapons you can actually make to make good combos. It's a privilege not a right". I think that's a great idea. If I had the money to buy enough CE and mats to make hundreds of copies of a single weapon until I'm satisfied. Which, frankly, I don't have. I don't have the money, nor the time to do that. In fact, I think UVs are a cheap gimmick to get ppl to spend craptons of REAL MONIES, which I'm not gonna do. They're like shiny pokemon: hey, I'll invest hours into a game to get an uglier version of a mon I don't even like! Hey, that's a great way to spend my time! Here's an alternative: let ME (edit: as in, the PLAYER, not just me, you know...) choose what I want right from the start. That way it'll be more fun, quicker, and cheaper! Wohoo!

So I think thats all I have to say about that until I read some more responses...

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:44

#26

Merethif

@Quiiliitiila: Actually I'm

@Quiiliitiila: Actually I'm not sure if Spiral Knights is a RPG. It is MMO, no doubt, but is it MMORPG? It looks like action-adventure rather. It's Zelda rather then Eye of the Beholder. Of course nowadays all those games genres usually mix up to create unique game expirience but you know what I mean.

I'm not saying I'm against character customization (even though I don't feel like I really need it). I feel confortable with options we have at the moment and rarely have I seen anyone looking like me so far (I'm wearing Elemental Hood/Sunset Duster, usually with Groundbreaker Helm/Spiral Brigandine costume).

"Starting bonuses" or "permanent character UV" idea seems all right, but again SK is pretty unique and it's difficult for a brand new player to decide which bonus to take. Maybe player could choose "starting" bonus after an obligatory mission presenting basic melee/handguns/bombs strategies? Probably at the end of Resque Camp intro.

BTW, some "permanent character UV":
- fortune finder - gains 5% more crowns after every level
- armourer - gains 5% more heat after each level (good for crafters)

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 11:52

#27

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

@merethif That's kinda what I

@merethif

That's kinda what I was thinking...like an ability distinguishing you as a thiefy character...
Or here's some other ideas:
- Defender: Shield comes out twice as fast/lasts twice as long
- Navigator: Has option to see the whole map
- Regen: Character automatically regains health (slowly)

If the abilities leveled up or if you could gain more as you progress it be pretty neat, too.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 12:27

#28

Merethif

Yet another ideas :-D

Yet another ideas :-D
- Scout: movement speed increased
- Alchemist: increased chance to cause status (when using weapon that cause status)
- Geologist: double minerals gained after every level

As for Regeneration. I think healing over time is OP but maybe regeneration of one health bar (or more) in elevators (between levels) would be ok.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 12:30

#29

Metaknight

*clear throat*

RaumeDrink, let me make a few things clear (since ALL of the hostility in that first paragraph was clearly directed at me):

1.) I did contribute (positive) ideas to this thread, read my first post.

2.) I never insulted you personally, or any of your ideas, only Quiiliitiila (more like Quit-liitiila). So if you want to be a White Knight (or do you want to school me on that trope too?), then by all means. There is no reason to start arguing with me, I have no problems with you.

3.) I apologized to her and plan to make an attempt to get her to come back to the forums if I can find her. I do feel bad about it and hoped she would check back in on this thread and change her mind.

4.) In a Democracy both sides are allowed to voice their opinion. So you and whoever else agree on ideas are allowed to express their opinions, and myself and anyone who disagrees are allowed to voice theirs.

5.) I am against the idea (of major costume/equipment changes for customization purposes) and find it impractical for a number of reasons. Because I have an understanding of game design / software engineering (not to say I know everything), I have a rough idea of what effort needs to be made in order to implement a change. Some of your ideas are not so unrealistic (though the usefulness my be unquestionable). The suggestions Quiiliitiila is making? Unrealistic given the current design of the game.

If you want to fundamentally change every character model in the game in order to customize it more than currently, its no small task. And I ask you, are there enough people wanting this to make it worthwhile? I don't have the answer to that, but my guess is no. So when proposing things you have to take into consideration what is a realistic and what is not, for the developers to give it the slightest thought. Obvious deep character customization was not something they were concerned with, and I personally like it that way. So I doubt it is worth their blood/sweat/tears and development funds to make such a change available to you.

Its okay to post unrealistic ideas, but its another thing to think they will be realized. As for your other ideas, I indicated I didn't really have a horse in that race, so I am indifferent. Gameplay / mechanics matter to me. All those other things are just smoke and mirrors.

5.) When I used the Mary Sue trope, I was implying that Quiiliitiila's desire is for her character to be a Mary Sue in-game for herself. I have nothing to do with Mary Sue-ing anything, so you read me wrong. The LARPing revelation just strengthens my thought that hey, this is a person with a thin grasp on reality, who gets off on living fantasy lives. Hence a somewhat vain interest in what their character looks like in a game where that doesn't really matter. But there I go again insulting people..

6.) Feel free to report my use of insults and *gasp* sacrasm to the proper authorities. I await my punishment.

7.) The TL;DR thing was a joke, I've used it before, and it has nothing to do with any of your posts. Its basically to provide a short synopsis of a sentiment from a much larger statement. And again, a joke. Relax.

So yeah. I'm not here to (solely) to insult other people. I'm here to help people with pipe dreams wake up, and help suggest and support ideas that are more feasible and add more value to the game. I didn't really want to argue with you at all, but after your last post, I felt inclined to defend myself.

Lets not turn this into an ongoing thing though. Again, I have no problems with you. Or didn't, at least.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 13:35

#30

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

I feel I should explain the

I feel I should explain the first paragraph of my last big post a bit more: first of all It wasn't completely directed at you, in fact, about half of the anger in that paragraph was directed at Quiiliitiila. Democratically voicing your opinion means you express an opinion that is for or against another opinion, and as I said, back it up with reasoning. Because you mindlessly argue with another forum-goer and you designate a specific opinion or person as a target doesn't mean you're democratically expressing an opinion; to do so requires that you support an opinion with information or your own feelings, instead of arguing for the sake of arguing. Thus, the first part of that paragraph could be more easily directed at Quiiliitiila, since your first post contributed to the discussion. The line, "If you're here because you like this game and want to make it better by democratically voicing your opinion, please come back...we miss you." DOES NOT refer to Quiiliitiila, it refers to Samm and Archon. The last paragraph does specificaly refer to you (hence why it has your name) so you're right in part. You are correct in my misunderstanding of your use of the Mary Sue trope, as well in your use of the White Knight (hehe, cause it's Spiral KNIGHTS, get it?) to an extent; but I did not write that paragraph in an effort to protect a third party (no, I'm not half that valiant). In fact, my effort was made to protect my own ideas. Nor do I consider you the big bad troll. Generally, I "valiantly" attempt to stop flame wars because otherwise people tend to forget what the whole point of a thread is about. I also wish an end to nasty, snarking remarks, and I appreciate the contributions you have made to the discussion. Now then, to the forum! (insert Large Ham trope here...)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=082y805mkA8

Addressing your comment #5:
I wan't asking for a complete overhaul of the equipment, just a wider variety of color selection when you create a new character. If you're referring to the comment "At LEAST add more weapon types (like in Zelda; gimme a hookshot or a boomerang...or some pegasus boots plz?) that comes with those abilities. That way it follows the LoZ mechanic we all seem to adore while adding more interesting content and without adding the (apparently) loathsome class/stat/skill system." then it was intended as an alternative for people who don't like the idea of "abilities". If you're referring to my comments about adding more starting armor, then okay, I realize adding more armor takes a lot of framework. Also, my comments about having a wider variety of colors applies mostly to the colors for your knight and the colors for the starting armor, which is affected by your choice of "Design". If that's the case, then I completely agree with you, trying to remake skins for EVERY piece of armor in the game would be a pain in the ass. However, there should be more options in choosing colors for knights, and the choices should have a larger impact on armor and weapons, IMO.

Addressing comment #5 (the second one...you seem to have two of them...):
Ohhhh...okay. I completely misundedrstood why you'd used that trope. I thought you were referring to yourself.

Addressing comments >#5:
Sarcasm is hardly necessary on a forum, especially when you have to *gasp* to get the point across. The same is true of foul language; it's simply for the people who aren't creative enough to come up with a more clever insult, which I also don't endorse. (note my use of the word "ass" automatically removes me from the intelligent group...mostly) Anyways, TL;DR is a trolling device. And assuming you've played SK down to tier 3 you know what happens to trolls...(they get demoted to "Welcome to Corneria" status and shipped to Emberlight, lol). No really, we kill them; don't use TL;DR. As for defending yourself, it's completely natural (I've done it several times myself, in this thread alone, eh?). So yeah, hope this wraps up hostilities. (and gosh I hope we don't spend the next several posts reconciling all peachy-fuzzy-rainbow-time-y, ya know?)

BTW, your first post was good. I find it ironic that we didn't really get into stuff like that until more recent posts. Oh, and there was that other thread that died of starvation...

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 13:54

#31

Metaknight

TL;DR doesn't have to be as

TL;DR doesn't have to be as hostile / trolly as your making it out to be. I'm not a /b-tard (I just play one on TV). If you say it about someone else's post, its jerky. If you said it about your own? I think thats perfectly legitimate.

Also, really everything that I was vehemently against was stuff proposed here by Quiiliitiila, and I believe some similar statements she had made in another thread. As I said, I'm fine with the color customizations (to a point... but not to where its a chore / big do-over for the developers).

Add more choices to the starting palette and let us change those freely (or at a cost) later on. Anything other than that seems excessive.

Anyways lets try to get this back on topic:

" yes these are all great ideas and I firmly approve this message *thumbs up* vote for me! "

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 13:54

#32

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Cool,

What do you think about the names? Should there be more character options? Let's try and get more opinions on this thread so they get noticed.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 13:57

#33

Metaknight

What IS allowed? I didn't

What IS allowed? I didn't quite understand the part about similar names.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 14:09

#34

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Right now they only allow

Right now they only allow letter characters in your name. That means no numbers, periods, underscores, or even spaces. The only character other than letters is a hyphen, which isn't saying much. Not only that, but only the first character of a name can be capitalized. And it is always (like it or not) capitalized. The reason I have a beef about this is now I can have a similar name to (for example) "Link". The name's (probably) already been taken, and I can't have names like "Link123" or "LlNK" (lowercase l for the I) or "Link, Mah Boi!" Stuff like that.

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 20:09

#35

Metaknight

Interesting. Would like to

Interesting. Would like to hear from the devs why they limited it like that, maybe they had a good reason. Numbers, don't see why they couldn't be used, but I wouldn't use them myself. Strange about the capitalization though. But yeah, I'd like to know why they chose to eliminate those options. Also, whats the max name length?

Wed, 04/20/2011 - 23:17

#36

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

I don't know the exact

I don't know the exact amount, but I think it's long enough. Just found out that you also have to capitalize the first letter of the words AFTER the hyphen, so using honorifics sounds weird. Ichiro-sama is now Ichiro-Sama...or Ichirosama. Yeah, I'd like to hear the devs' reasoning.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 05:51

#37

Merethif

As far as I know in most

As far as I know in most languages names start with capital letter and then are followed by ower-case.
Also you don't use numbers in names usually. If some numerical order is needed you always use roman numerals (like Henry VIII not Henry 8).

Phrases like "Link123", "LlNK" or "Link, Mah Boi!" are not names actually. Looks more like usernames to me.

You may call me grammar purist but dealing with typography is part of my everyday job. Game just looks more visually pleasant the way it is now.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 07:32

#38

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Lol, not every language works

Lol, not every language works that way. What if you have two names? A first and a last? You can't add a space and thus you can't have both your first and last names. And then if you pick only one of them to use it's often already in use. Okay, since I know that sounds cheap, I'll use another example. In Japanese, they use "honorifics" as titles by adding them to the back of the name (sort of a Mr./Sir system, if you will). So, as in the example above, Ichiro is called Ichiro-san (if he's about the same age and social status as you). If Ichiro is your senior and/or you look up to him, he's Ichiro-sama. You can technically add dashes in names here, but it will automatically capitalize the first letter of that word. So the closest I can get is Ichiro-Sama or Ichirosama, both of which sound terrible in Japanese. Korean and (some) Chinese names don't work either, because they require apostrophes. In Chinese, if your name could easily be mistranslated as something awful, you'd want to be able to use tones in the name, another thing which you can't do. Quite a few languages use special characters (German umlaut, Japanese katakana, Spanish or French names starting with de or del or D' followed by a capital letter). There are so many combinations that are no longer possible because they've already been taken, and any similar names are not viable because of the limit on characters.

I would be more OK with the current system if they let you do the same name as somebody else. Now, I know that'd be a huge hassle, but for all you people who want to use "actual" names, then I should be able to name my character an actual name, like John or Bob, which have been taken.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 09:52

#39

Quiiliitiila

Explanation

So I just wanted to chime in so I don't look like I stormed off... I have not looked at this forum for a few days so... I suppose some of the stuff I proposed is radical and would take a lot of work, but I only proposed them because I love the game and I wish to see it get better and better. I just felt that more character content would do that. I'm sorry I caused so much contention, that was not my intent.

Also I think I should point out I'm a guy (Quiiliitiila is kinda ambiguous so I don't blame you).

djbiznatch,
"Quit-liitiila" actually gave me a good chuckle :^D

-----------
djbiznatch,
Also I have to say I like the idea of a starting attribute that you proposed earlier. I think those choices could go a long way to separate you from the pack.

-Quiiliitiila

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 11:24

#40

Metaknight

Oh dude im pretty sorry about

Oh dude im pretty sorry about that. I confused you with another player who talks about their boyfriend all the time (who is certainly a girl), which is why I was surprised said boyfriend didn't come rushing in to defend your honor. LOL my bad. :)

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another but someone said they should have to choose the character trait AFTER passing the training mission (as opposed to during character customization pre-crash), which I agree with. New players would have no idea what those bonuses really meant, so it would be nice to reward them with it once they've been properly introduced to the game.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 11:36

#41

StevenMagnet

Legacy Username

I'd also like to add that I

I'd also like to add that I think it should warn you that the color you pick is stuck with you forever. Usually MMos allow you to change how your character looks even after customization.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 12:33

#42

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Yes, that would make sense.

Yes, that would make sense. Here's how the game could start:

Character creation:
- Choose colors (with permanence warning...)
- Choose starting armor

Tutorial
- Learn basic controls
- Get to remap controls (optional)
- Learn about enemies and grass/breakables
- Learn about heat and monies
- Get to use all three types of weapons
- Get to try out different bonuses

Rescue Camp
- Choose Name
- (Option to change colors or armor?)
- Choose bonus thing...
- Choose first weapon (only one)

Sounds like a great idea. Not that it's set in stone...it could easily be flip-flopped around for some variation.

Thu, 04/21/2011 - 15:18

#43

Quiiliitiila

I like the set-up you propose

I like the set-up you propose RamuneDrink, it makes sense and allows for the players to change their chosen color if they find they don't like it. Plus they can choose a trait after playing with the weapon types (there should be a bomb in the tutorial) and pick a trait that suits their playstyle. However I think they should be allowed to start play with two weapons, just like normal (sword/bomb, gun/bomb, sword/gun, gun/bomb).

Also, I hate to bring up rumors, but aren't they discussing allowing players to change their color for a small fee?

-Quiiliitiila

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:17

#44

Rentago

Legacy Username

Lets do this

Alright now that I've taken the time to go over everyone's suggestion, I will now generally criticize all of you to hell.

I'll start with something I've said before, some of you don't seem to realize this game was made in Java, a very terrible platform in which to build games with.

Very limiting, very problematic.

They have pulled a miracle making such a wonderful game like this using such a horrible thing.

I stand by you that when players start out they all look the same, and what everyone cares about anywhere is being unique, because they are insecure. The starting gear is quickly replaced by other things as soon as you learn how to buy other armors and weapons in which to further diversify the community. What you are asking isn't simply a larger range of colors, which could be done, but for a bunch of extra controls in which choosing a color becomes a decision of light pink, lighter pink, or blinding white pink.

I think this is a pointless since colors hold very little purpose to begin with, they might as well remove them altogether and make everyone the same color to end this problem of being unique you need to satisfy so dearly.

When choosing a color, I can safely bet that most went with their favorite color. You may not be the only person to like that color, and since starting out you either look like a girl, or have a bucket on your head, I think it is quite obvious people went with what looked best and didn't base it on utility, since all the starter equipment probably has the same stats which it doesn't show you and generally gets replaced with better gear almost immediately.

I do think we should be able to change our color later in the game, the choices of colors are fine, some of you just think you should look like a plethora of colors that are so bright that it burns your screen.

Some of you also seem to be confused about the point of this game and what it is titled as well, it is called, "Spiral Knights"
You are an advanced alien species that refer to themselves as Spirals which like chivalry and all that comes with it.
This is not Gremlin Knights, Catghost Knights, Logman Knights, Pokemon Knights.
You are a Spiral Knight who is a part of the Spiral Order.

The gender vagueness is fine, though there are armors that make you seem more feminine, you can wear them as a costume is you care.

Characters are defined by their equipment, stats essentially come from the weapons and armor.
Since each bomb, gun, and sword are mostly unique with specific uses and purposes, you can distinguish a gunner as a sit back support or crowd control guy.

Or whether that guy is a tank, or a damage dealer.

Either way, I prefer that companies try to not make everyone happy, and only make themselves happy. Many games get ruined because they try to appeal to everyone, the people who suck, the people who a hardcore, and the people who care about things that don't matter.

You guys just keep on suggesting, you are all successfully trolling me here, I shouldn't even be forced to reply to any of these threads, but you force my hand every time.

Sure hope that ignore button idea becomes available, I'll just ignore the whole forum.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 08:39

#45

RamuneDrink

Legacy Username

Wait, you just dissed on the

Wait, you just dissed on the ignore button...
I literally JUST read your post and you went on and on about how terrible of an idea it was...
Are you just a troll?
Anyways, if you hate the forums, it's not like you're OBLIGATED to come here and whine about how terrible everyone's suggestions are. By all means, leave if you want to. Or just stay here and stop complaining. Or come up with more witty and pointless remarks and post another scathing comment here. At least it bumps the thread.

So, I'd like to point out that first off, the game already gives you the option to "look like a plethora of colors that are so bright that it burns your screen". In fact almost every time you charge a weapon you get all those fancy, flashy-bright colors all over the place. Other than that, is it too hard to change the colors?

And what about names? I hate it when people specifically ignore an issue because they think they could lose ground in an argument against it! I hate it almost as much as when people say they don't care enough about an issue to desire a change. How is that supposed to rebuke anything I've said? All you've done is highlight your own general fear of change. Heck, if you don't want anything to change, then why the F are you on the suggestion forums? Just to post negative comments that you don't seem to want to post?

"You guys just keep on suggesting, you are all successfully trolling me here, I shouldn't even be forced to reply to any of these threads, but you force my hand every time"

Really? That's like a troll, an anti-troll, and serious troll bait all in one sentence. If you don't want to post, then don't. No one can MAKE you do anything, unless you're like super religious...

Playing as different races. Just because it's called "Spiral Knights" doesn't mean we have to play as Spirals. Especially with the introduction of multiple other sentient races. Frankly, the choice is up to the developers, not you; quoting the title isn't going to get you anywhere. Should they choose to implement other races, so be it. I can suggest it if I want to.

Sorry, but having a character "defined by their equipment" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Hello: we're all wearing frigging Wolver sets. How does that define us? We all look the same. The only other things that separate us from other players now is the name. Which, by they way, is pretty limiting.

"Either way, I prefer that companies try to not make everyone happy, and only make themselves happy. Many games get ruined because they try to appeal to everyone, the people who suck, the people who a hardcore, and the people who care about things that don't matter."

Wait...am I reading this right? So, you're saying companies should only try to make themselves happy. Instead of their playerbase. Not only is that an extremely selfish opinion, but it completely defeats the purpose of posting on the suggestion forums. Obviously, OOO wants to connect with their players, otherwise they wouldn't have this whole forum. And you posting on the very same forum is, in turn, a suggestion to OOO for an improvement. IE, you're commenting about how your own comment is stupid. Teh hell? One more question: what kind of player are you? are you one of the hardcore ones? Or maybe one of the ones who suck...or maybe, you're one of the ones who cares about things that they say aren't important.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 09:36

#46

Metaknight

Rentago what are you basing

Rentago what are you basing this Java hate on?

However I agree with most of what you have to say, although maybe not your tone. Most of those suggestions don't really add much bang for your buck to the game, and I don't think this is some sort of open-source community where everyones ideas are going to be pitched in and make this something for everyone / fanservice / etc.

The only idea I'm behind in this thread is something to make those 2nd and 3rd character slots more appealing, and the only remotely close idea to doing that would be the character unique bonus idea. That said, its still probably not a great idea, and there might be other ways to promote using additional character slots.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 02:03

#47

Kakyoro

Legacy Username

Posting about the main topic.. Not conversation wise

Man, that sounds like a great deal of things that have to be changed! I am a new player and have started pretty early (around 5 days ago) and I too have been missing out on some things that I have experienced in other games.

I see little variants of player customization as well, but I am mostly concern with customization involving colors. Some ideas would be to make armors Color Custom (or at least particular items.. or even the option to add Color Customizability, like for a certain price of tokens from Brink. Or add a new NPC that enchants items to make them Color Customizable). I think that we should also be able to change our Personal Color, or at least when a new variety of colors for our Personal Color is released, all the older players get a chance to change it (for a price or not, I wouldn't mind).

Also, as said in the post, the list of choosable armors that are able to be chosen at the start of the game is horribly small... I'd like to see new designs so that Spiral Knights won't be nicknamed after the famous Star Wars Saga: The Clone Wars.

Another thin I am worried about is also Gender. Of all things, it shouldn't be taken for granted. I wouldn't like sexist comments to thrive once prejudiced people know about the sex of other people; but not knowing the gender of a fellow player might confuse people. Another thing that frightens me is that if armors and items might be either too masculine (most of the time) or too feminine (never, as far as I know). Even though I like the Chibi style of the game, it isn't likely for a female to wear an item that is fairly masculine.

These are my thoughts. Glad this was posted. Hopefully Three Rings (OOO) will listen to the players of Spiral Knights.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 20:12

#48

Nitez

My Opinion on all of this...

OK, so in general thoughts about this whole thing is gonna be short and brief because I'm lazy. lol

-Starting Equipment, sure allow people to choose what they want when they start off. There are costume slots so... yeah.

- Colours(I live in Canada so it HAS a u), Sure why not, doesn't really matter or isn't really useful at all but hey why not it could be something people could have fun with

-Names, Maybe add caps or space otherwise number would be a pain. I'm NOT kidding about this, I do not want an impossibly ridiculous overcomplicated name in the trade channel.

-Stats and Abilities, hmm this could be good or bad but technically in this game all you would need would be just equipment. I mean consider this every single weapon in this game is pretty unique-ish in it's own way. If you add the charge attack that itself is a skill. Stats are pretty much also covered by equipment. If you REALLY wanted to make this game slightly more complicated add more equipment.

-NiteZ
hopefully not trolling self.

P.S. Yeah, starting abilities is iffy. On one hand it could boost game-play interesting amounts of fun and possibly easier dungeon runs. On the Other Hand if the game puts PvP back in,it could be kinda imba.

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