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Greavers are absurd.

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Thu, 02/02/2012 - 03:25
Crossproduct

Lag makes them impossible. 100+ ping and there's no way to safely deal with them, try to shield push them away? they'll attack before they get pushed, leaving their cloud and trapping you while the others move in and attack, cancel your shield for a sec and the cloud gets you, if it's shock you're just dead, no refunds.

Just another example of the developers never having played their own game. Because this is just bs.

Devilites are bad enough and with lag even worse, their shots always hit you even when you're not even close to them. But greavers are basically impossible. Fix it.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 03:31
#1
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Another example? What's the

Another example? What's the first example? A lot of the GMs do play SK, and OOO don't exactly have a massive archive of games for its GMs to be busy with; they give a fair chunk of their attention directly to SK.

They're not broken or impossible, they're just the hardest mob in the game, especially shock ones.

The only problem here is (and you'll know it if Asul the rager sees this thread) that instead of simply asking for advice, you're goin' on a rant and demanding nerfs. It's lazy, half-assed attitudes like yourself that result in perpetual nerfs and the game being made boringly easy.

Use the search function, or make an advice post, there's threads like this all the time, and all too many of them are QQrs like yourself.

Go read this, go to T1 and look for Fiend floors and practice.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/39692
Less QQ, more bat-swatting.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 03:47
#2
Crossproduct
Nope You're quite wrong.

Nope You're quite wrong. With normal lag of about 120 ping to east coast servers. Greavers are impossible. I've already got a btb, and if there's less than 3 then I can usually deal with them without problem. more than that, and you swipe at the first two and bump them away and the next 2 come up and hit you when you can't do anything about it. So, sorry I don't buy your story that they're fine. They're complete bollocks.

And telling me to search? LoL, learn to realize that your arguments are broken and my arguments are valid. ggkthxbai.

Point is, there's basically only 1 weapon (btb and ff being essentially the same), that can deal with them, and not very well.

Bombs don't work they hit you before charge completes even with ctr:max, either nitronome or DBB.

I mean at the very least they could fix fields totally locking you in place while your shield is up. I mean really it's just completely asinine the way that works. And the more you lag, the worse the effect is. Pathetic game design right there. If they played their own game they'd realize it sucks and fix it.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 03:49
#3
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Really?

Crossproduct=Arrogant
ATM at least ...

Arrogance is NOT for SK... learn to calm down and don't always think you're right... otherwise you're worse then a troll... or a hater... or a trolling hater... XP

~Tsu

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 03:55
#4
Crossproduct
As if I care what you think

As if I care what you think of me... Stay on topic and don't call people names.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:05
#5
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Ahem! :P

I was not calling you a name, i'm sorry if it was taken that way, i was commenting on how you appeared to others, which is gruff and arrogent... IMO...

and i think that the tone of voice is quite important, because you are going to be dealing with other people here, and they do have feelings... if you truly do not care about what others think of you, then you should not be suprised if some one actually does call you out and startbashing on you, because, lets face it, you did just ask for it.. XD

and as for the greavers... they are one of the most painful creatures in the game... luckily for you, there are many people who know how to deal with them and are willing to give you their advice, but you have to be willing to listen...

Be calm little one XD
~Tsu

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:13
#6
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
I'm not wrong at all. I'm in

I'm not wrong at all. I'm in Scotland and I can deal with them fine, so it's not the game, it's your connection. Nothing I stated was opinion, it was all fact. If you find them "impossiburu" then you're just inexperienced. I created that thread I linked, and was asking for help then. Guess which of the two of us can do Greavers no-probs now?

Search the forums!? Yes, i am telling you to search; I just gave you a perfectly fine link that was heavily discussed with a lot of tactical advice. If you're too arrogant to look through that and come up with smething useful then that's your problem, not the game, and certainly no one elses. Learn to accept advice, or continiue being clearly bad at the game.
You'd be amazed but, you're not the first person in the game to make a thread about Greavers, and you're far from the first to childishly demand nerfs without even asking for advice.

BtB is the only thing that can deal with them? Also, quite wrong/narrow-minded. The link I gave you gave plenty of advice on other weapons that can deal with them.
RSS absolutely destroys them.
DBB can hit full groups of them at once, and interrupts.
Autoguns destroys them.
Any slow sword can kill full groups of them at once and have massive KB, usually killing them all in one combo.

Also, Tsubasa wasn't wrong, you come off completely arrogant, saying that since you can't do something, that it's simply impossible. That's not "name-calling" that's just stating a fact. It's like sayin' "Look at that monkey, he's hairy" or "look at that duck, he's wet" or "look at that guy on the forums makin' another rant-thread about Greavers because he refuses to ask for help...."

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:28
#7
Crossproduct
@Tsubasa-No-Me

@Tsubasa-No-Me

Pff, I know exactly how to deal with them. I pretty much only run solo*, and the issue is, you can't deal with 4+ attacking you at once when they hit you in a place that's not safe to counter attack due to all the other monsters who are about to attack right there. You only have the one option, fight and get hit by everything else, or run and get hit by the greavers. Impossible.

And honestly, if I'm nice here, the thread gets ignored, and nothing ever gets fixed. If I piss the devs off enough, maybe they'll realize that people are really pissed off and do something about it. I know I'm certainly not the only one.

* (running in a party just makes the game completely unplayable due to lag despite having a computer that's far above the required specs to play the game. gg java. Even worse if I get stuck in a euro party which they say the fix is to "go solo"...),

@Darkbrady

You know their euro servers are in ireland right? that's like right next door. Of course you don't have lag issues. And obviously if it works for you it must work for everyone right? Your logic is fail. Ping from west coast to Virginia is about 80 ms not counting the ping to your isp. So don't try to tell me it's my connection, it's everyone's connection on the west coast. Not to mention Asia Pacific. Truth is, this game's network design is terrible.

Why should I search for tactical advice? I'm not asking how to beat them, I know how to beat them just fine. Learn to read. And of course I'm sure other people have made threads, I'm just adding another one. Don't like it? Don't read it.

Bombs and other weapons don't have time to charge at the current rate they attack + lag. Sorry.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:38
#8
Milkman's picture
Milkman
West coast, eh? I'm from

Virginia, eh? I'm from Australia. I have much worse latency and lag problems than you. I'll agree that they are tough when there are 4 or more especially if I don't have a sword equipped. But I manage to deal with it. Several of the tactics that were mentioned in Darkbrady's thread work for me. Try them some time.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:36
#9
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Ahurhurhur...

From the forum rules page...

"Be excellent to each other. Keep your posts respectful and polite. Disagreement is fine, but scratching, biting, and hair pulling is not allowed.

See the respectful and polite bit? >.>

under the "Do Not" section...

"Post personal attacks, or anything intended to insult or belittle another person (this includes both players AND staff members)."

Your "Your logic is fail" comment falls under that... try understanding where the other person is coming from...
"Learn to read" falls under this too...
"Don't like it? Don't read it." well i came to help, and your comments are making me feel unwanted, which is not honorable and kinda insulting...

"Truth is, this game's network design is terrible." that is a matter of opinion and others may feel differently about it... it is not set in stone that what you said there is true...

And by the way, one of the points in this game is strategy, the situation you describe could easily happen to anyone, the way to fix your problem is not to nerf the bats, but to help you understand the layout of the monsters... from what you've told me anyways...

~Tsu

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 04:38
#10
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
You obviously don't know how

Why should I search for tactical advice? I'm not asking how to beat them, I know how to beat them just fine
Impossible.
That made me lol.

You obviously don't know how to beat them, otherwise you'd be able to.

I can use bombs to beat them. Why can't you?
I can beat 4 at once, why can't you?
I've played on the east coast and killed them, why can't you?
Other people on the west coast can kill them, why can't you?
I've played with lag and killed them, why can't you?
List goes on here, but it basically amounts to: "only people who whine and refuse to ask for help can't kill them. You are one of them."

It's not about KNOWING how to beat them, it's about practice. You clearly have none. I mean, you can read a website that teaches you master karate, but if someone attacks you, you ain't a master. Gotta get some of the ole' practice in.
Protip: Practicing in T3 will get you killed every time. If you can't do them there, you won't learn to do them by dying. Go down to T1/2 and practice where screw-ups won't result in insta-death, and it lets you really get a handle. Work your way up from there. If you ask for some advice and practice, you'll be tankin' T3 greavers in no time.
Or, just continue pointlessly demanding nerfs like every other QQr out there, continue to suck and achieve nothing in game. Your call, idc either way, I asked for help, I practiced, I can do it fine.

Also, "pissing off the Devs" won't get any results. They'll read the first thread go "*sigh*, another whiner who just got his ass kicked and decided to throw a tantrum and demand nerfs", ignore the thread then chalk up the fifth this week on their office polls as to how many tantrums are thrown every week demandin' nerfs because someone refuses to admit that they just suck and ask for help.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impossible
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrogant
It is not impossible, because people can do it. Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't make it impossible.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 05:35
#11
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
Wait, let me find what i

Wait, let me find what i wrote in answer to ppl who complain about greavers... too lazy to write it again,

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 05:38
#12
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
You have a rage in the first

You have a rage in the first thread I linked, and I /think/ in that thread there's a link to another on from the suggestions about someone esle sayin' the same thing. Hell, the last one was pretty recent, only few pages back by now I guess.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 05:49
#13
Uuni's picture
Uuni
They are annoying and lack

They are annoying and lack counterplay options, they need a bigger knockback window and hard damage should cancel their attack

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 06:03
#14
Milkman's picture
Milkman
Any damage cancels their

Any damage cancels their attack..

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 06:15
#15
Juances's picture
Juances
~

Blame lag not the monsters.

I'm from south america and lag makes them harder but not immposible, you are over reacting.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 09:29
#16
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Learn them

If you see some posts I made, I hated Grievers the most. But some time has passed, and as every other monster I developed a strategy against them:

- Swordies: Do what you do best, attack head-on! Last strike in a combo knocks them, it is most recommended with heavy swords. Just don't get surrounded!
- Gunners: Do what you are, a safety player, and kite them! If they charge you, run until each and everyone of your chasers attacks, THEN attack. If you have a Blitz Needle you will also kill them with your full clip in 1 recharge. Callahan will most likely also kill them easily.
- Bombers: Be the first to strike! If you can charge your bomb before they attack, spam it and they will die 100% for sure if it is a short-fuse one. You could also use the gunner tactic if you are a firebomb user, or freeze them and dispose them anyway you want then.

But hey, look at all the nerfing OOO made to almost every existing monster... I would like a BIT of challenge in the game though.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 09:47
#17
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
Thanks

Thanks Darkbrady,

Crossproduct : click this http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/39692#comment-255825 thats my opinion about greavers

Greavers are fine how they are right now. No need to change anything.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:04
#18
Extribble's picture
Extribble
Honestly I have more problems

Honestly I have more problems with Devilites than Greavers, and I consider them both to be fair in difficulty level. Greavers are a relief when I see them and not Devilites on a fiend level :P

With Greavers, the easiest way for me (and many others) to kill them is to shield-cancel the first swipe of the BTB/FF every time you see one speed up to attack you. One hit cancels their attack and you'll be hitting multiple at a time, which brings them down fast. If there's too many, just walk backwards slowly so you prevent them from getting behind you as you swipe away. It's and extremely simple tactic that works with or without lag. During some times of day my ISP will leave me with a ping of 200+ on any game, and I still have no problem with these since I've run into them so much. Lag does make them more difficult, it also makes every other monster more difficult. It doesn't mean every monster should be nerfed (I know I went a little far, but one thing always leads to another...). Practice makes perfect, you should try it sometime ;)

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:20
#19
Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Let this die.

Greavers will be a pain for those who don't know how to beat them down. Shock greavers are a pain for me, but that's because my timing is off normally when I encounter them. (Or I'm heating weps I'm not familiar with)
The suggestion that current greavers are OP in large groups is wrong, they're just hard to deal with alone. So what's the lesson? Make sure your party can actually work together. You're better off solo if you have a 4 man party that just won't work. You're better off breaking away from a large group if you can't handle the groups as they are.
"If it flies, it dies... first"

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:24
#20
Melisan's picture
Melisan
@Darkbrady :) another Celt

@Darkbrady :) another Celt like me?
@Crossproduct please take out the expletive in your second post.
@everyone offering advice; don't bother, he won't listen, he just wants attention. I suggest this be the last post in this thread, we don't need to feed the troll any more.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:27
#21
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Shock greavers are like any

Shock greavers are like any other mob that causes shock; get shocked once and you're almost guaranteed to get hit again. It's multiplied with greavers though, considering the sheer rate at which they attack.

Even so, I've come to agree with Tsubasa and someone else (Bluescreenofdeath, maybe? I forget who exactly) that slow swords are the way to go with Greavers. Any single attack at all cancels their attacks, and with huge swing arcs you can hit full groups at once and KB them pretty heavily before they even get a chance; the reach also lets you hit them before they get in for the attack, similar to BtB. I've sworn by troika/da for greavers ever since, just the easiest way to deal with them in my experience.

EDIT@Melisan:
By this point I think the "advice" is just discussion sake for everyone else involved. The fact that OP was too stuck-up to even ask should alone imply that he's long gone from this thread, he wilnae likely be involved here again anytime soon, but we can all at least have a bit of banter about it. Considerin' my thread on GYs, it's always refreshin' to have people discuss the hard beasties in the game :)

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:43
#22
Melisan's picture
Melisan
In that case, i find the best

In that case, i find the best way to deal with greavers is to use a levi blade, start charging as soon as you see them (if you can) and just wait till they swarm you, there is actually quite a large pause between the telegraphing and the actual attack then release....bits of bat everywhere. (it's best if you try and "collect" as many as you can at once for this).
Facts: You CAN run from them, Any damage cancels their attack, I never had a problem with them even before the EU servers came along, you can get the most powerful computer in the world, and still get lag.....duh -.-

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 11:47
#23
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Runnin' from them is easiest

Runnin' from them is easiest with a mobile gun, though.

Or just droppin' a shiver, but then there's usually no need to run <3

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 16:00
#24
Crossproduct
@Melisan Excuse me? But what

@Melisan
Excuse me? But what explicative? Just because you've never heard a word before doesn't make it a "swear" word. Look them up in the dictionary. And ultimately none of them are filtered in game which is the test they say to use to post on these forums.

Here's a list of possible fixes.
-Change or remove their haze cloud. It could be altered so that it's behind them only after they attack, or removed entirely, why do greavers get 3 attacks at once anyway, and with a swooping long range attack? Overkill.

-Increase time between their attack runs a bit, increase it to match the duration between kats charge attacks.

-Add a little time before they actually attack.

-Change their behavior so they don't swoop around you.

-Fix shields locking you in place in haze fields. Or make shields when activated in a haze field push the haze away from where you are so when you deactivate you can do a normal attack instead of getting instantly shocked.

-Make players immune to haze fields if they have 2 * max shock or whatever the field is.

@Tsubasa-No-Me
>"Post personal attacks, or anything intended to insult or belittle another person (this includes both players AND staff members)."
>Your "Your logic is fail" comment falls under that... try understanding where the other person is coming from...
No that is perfectly accurate. Assuming everything is fine because something works for them is a HUGE logical fallacy. I see people do it all the time, and it's totally and completely wrong. Try taking a basic logic course, it does wonders.

>"Don't like it? Don't read it." well i came to help, and your comments are making me feel unwanted, which is not honorable and kinda insulting...
It's really your own choice whether you feel insulted by words or not. They aren't insulting words, they simply remind the reader they don't have to read what they don't like. But you can choose to get insulted over anything you'd like, I just won't be responsible for it.

>"Truth is, this game's network design is terrible." that is a matter of opinion and others may feel differently about it... it is not set in stone that what you said there is true...
Let me just explain the fundamental problems here for you. These aren't matters of opinion but fact.
- Game is incredibly intolerant of ping flux. There are plenty of mathematical ways to determine a running mean of the ping and use that for all calculations for position and hit detection. 20-30 ping flux should not be an issue.
- Hit detection is done where the server is, and does not take into account ping at all, further, the client side doesn't take into account ping as well when displaying the current location of projectiles and other things on screen. Resulting in a double whammy of twice the ping in terms of how far off the players state is to the servers state. As projectiles are lagged behind where they are on the players side, and the player is lagged behind on the server side.
- And don't even get me started on Lock down. I just love being hit from guys who aren't even visible on the screen yet.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 17:37
#25
Jmsa's picture
Jmsa
/clap

It appears that we have another troll.

Oh goodie.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 17:42
#26
Akarahn
"Pff, I know exactly how to

"Pff, I know exactly how to deal with them. I pretty much only run solo*"

If you knew exactly how to deal with greavers, this thread wouldn't exist. Also, solo running is okay, but you're going to have problems with select mobs, namely groups of alpha wolvers, turrets, fiends, and greavers.

Instead of spam swinging, take a split second to aim, then smack all of them at once with the horizontal swing rather than the follow up stabs. 1 hit is all it takes to interrupt. I'm playing with 100ish ping on the east coast too, and I can pull off said maneuver 99% of the time.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 18:19
#27
Crossproduct
I have no issues with alpha

I have no issues with alpha wolvers, or turrets, both are easily dealt with by proper movement/placement.

I'll just reiterate, greavers are absurd because there's only one way to deal with them, that is hit them before they hit you, and that is usually impossible because if you stay to hit them, other monsters will hit you. If you run, the greavers hit you. It's a no win situation made worse by shock. No one yet has made a valid argument in regards to this.

Only trolls call other people trolls.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 19:01
#28
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Hello!

You must not be understanding:

1: "And ultimately none of them are filtered in game which is the test they say to use to post on these forums"
*Uuuhh... Really? you do know that there is a filter option that is checked to On when you first get the game, right? you can chose not to have a filter, but it's there. >.>

2: "No that is perfectly accurate. Assuming everything is fine because something works for them is a HUGE logical fallacy. I see people do it all the time, and it's totally and completely wrong. Try taking a basic logic course, it does wonders."
*What we're TRYING to say here is that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You say you know how to deal with them, then do. Don't come here demanding that you need them nerfed if you can deal with them... Also, please refrain from suggestion to others that they need to take basics in such and such a thing, when are going against you, it is a form of personal attack and is not to be on the forums.

3: "It's really your own choice whether you feel insulted by words or not. They aren't insulting words, they simply remind the reader they don't have to read what they don't like. But you can choose to get insulted over anything you'd like, I just won't be responsible for it."
*Its that you are being careless with your words, which can cause anyone to be offended. The thing is, that when you post online, you are saying things to the entire world, you need to think about what other people will think when they read it... Otherwise you just come off as a jerk/troll...

4:"Let me just explain the fundamental problems here for you. These aren't matters of opinion but fact...."
Ok, thank you for putting this out there, I agree that it is a major problem... but fixing one mob to deal with the far away playerbase is not the way to go... i suggest and strongly urge you to make a thread to fix ping problem, seeing as that is what you truly seem to be suffering from...

5: "I'll just reiterate, greavers are absurd because there's only one way to deal with them, that is hit them before they hit you, and that is usually impossible because if you stay to hit them, other monsters will hit you. If you run, the greavers hit you. It's a no win situation made worse by shock. No one yet has made a valid argument in regards to this."
Yes. That is what they do. That is their purpose in this game. They ARE meant to be utterly evil, and cause you to ragerev. Changing them to do anything else would be silly. Besides, other monsters have their own tweaks, meaning for example, that if you try to attack a Trojan from the front, you will get smashed. if you want to beat them, you must attack from behind. Removing what makes monsters unique is horrible, because it make all monsters into slimes that only attack every minute or so... and dont move... and have no range... and deal no damage...... (Extremes, but entertaining XD)

6: "Only trolls call other people trolls."
...I'm fairly sure that's not right, normal people call trolls, trolls, because that's what they do.... if you wish not to be called a troll, show them you are not...

Bemusedly,
~Tsu

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 19:05
#29
Maeko's picture
Maeko
@Cross

I'll just reiterate, greavers are absurd because there's only one way to deal with them, that is hit them before they hit you, and that is usually impossible because if you stay to hit them, other monsters will hit you.

impossible because if you stay to hit them, other monsters will hit you.

    stay to hit them

      ...

      You're a bloody moron. The only person who should stay anywhere near the buggers is a bomber with a DBB.

      Swordies should be backpedaling constantly and only take single strikes when they charge and then shield cancel to cut the animation short, rinse and repeat. This funnels every one of those overgrown moths right into your swipe range.

      One of those nice little strategy that can be found in the thread most here have been TRYING to direct you to.

      But as you know far more about these enemies than anyone else on these forums and are the only one that seems to be having large amounts of difficulty with Greavers, I guess we all are just doing it wrong by slaughtering every one of the buggers with nary a scratch on our shields.

      TL;DR? I'm not pandering to anyone's demands save a GM, read the post.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 21:50
#30
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
Well, here's the true problem with Greavers.

They create a large, barely noticeable status cloud. And because they can easily wavedash into your face, it's very hard to avoid the status cloud. By the time the nearly invisible status cloud is gone, the Greaver will repeatedly attack you, and continue to spew status clouds.

So you HAVE to get afflicted by status when fighting Greavers. If you're lucky, you can avoid it. We just need to make the cloud more noticeable, and slightly reduce the duration or size of the cloud. Before, Greavers were able to inflict status through shields, which is bad enough. But having a practically invisible status cloud that lasts too long it just as bad.

Doesn't mean that they're impossible to beat, Greavers are just unnecessarily tedious.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 22:49
#31
Crossproduct
@Tsubasa-No-Me >1: "And

@Tsubasa-No-Me

>1: "And ultimately none of them are filtered in game which is the test they say to use to post on these forums"
>*Uuuhh... Really? you do know that there is a filter option that is checked to On when you first get the game, right?
>you can chose not to have a filter, but it's there. >.>
Yes, I turned on the filter, tested every word you could possibly feel was "offensive" and found none of them filtered, they aren't offensive words. Get over it. Moving on...

>2: "No that is perfectly accurate. Assuming everything is fine because something works for them is a HUGE logical fallacy.
>I see people do it all the time, and it's totally and completely wrong. Try taking a basic logic course, it does wonders."
>*What we're TRYING to say here is that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". You say you know how to deal with them, then do.
>Don't come here demanding that you need them nerfed if you can deal with them... Also, please refrain from suggestion to others
>that they need to take basics in such and such a thing, when are going against you, it is a form of personal attack and is not to
>be on the forums.
They aren't personal attacks, they're personal encouragement. And again, I shall point out. that just because something works for you doesn't mean it's not broken. Your sample size of 1 is too small to make sweeping generalizations about everyone.

>3: "It's really your own choice whether you feel insulted by words or not. They aren't insulting words, they simply remind the reader
>they don't have to read what they don't like. But you can choose to get insulted over anything you'd like, I
>just won't be responsible for it."
>*Its that you are being careless with your words, which can cause anyone to be offended. The thing is, that when you post
>online, you are saying things to the entire world, you need to think about what other people will think when they read it...
>Otherwise you just come off as a jerk/troll...
I don't really care what other people think about me here, the joys of pseudo anonymity. Welcome to the internet.

>4:"Let me just explain the fundamental problems here for you. These aren't matters of opinion but fact...."
>Ok, thank you for putting this out there, I agree that it is a major problem... but fixing one mob to deal with the far away
>playerbase is not the way to go... i suggest and strongly urge you to make a thread to fix ping problem, seeing as that is
>what you truly seem to be suffering from...
Fix my ping problem? How do you propose they fix it? Build a wormhole from Oregon to Virginia? Besides they already made similar fixes for Undead/Mecha nights/and wolvers, you can sneak right past their attacks and not get hit. They just did a half baked job of it and didn't fix fiends/greavers.

>5: "I'll just reiterate, greavers are absurd because there's only one way to deal with them, that is hit them before they hit you, and
> that is usually impossible because if you stay to hit them, other monsters will hit you. If you run, the greavers hit you. It's a no
>win situation made worse by shock. No one yet has made a valid argument in regards to this."
>Yes. That is what they do. That is their purpose in this game. They ARE meant to be utterly evil, and cause you to ragerev.
> Changing them to do anything else would be silly. Besides, other monsters have their own tweaks, meaning for example,
> that if you try to attack a Trojan from the front, you will get smashed. if you want to beat them, you must attack from behind.
> Removing what makes monsters unique is horrible, because it make all monsters into slimes that only attack every minute
> or so... and dont move... and have no range... and deal no damage...... (Extremes, but entertaining XD)
Trojans are one of the best monsters, they're large, do interesting things, and require actual strategy to beat them. Soloing them is actually quite easy though, and there's more than one way to beat them, unlike greavers. As for rage reving, I honestly don't think they want to alienate their player base that much as to do that intentionally. If people are dying all the time from things they can't control, like lag and shock greavers, that just pisses them off and they stop playing. If they die due to their own mistakes, well then they have fun and spend money, which is basically all three rings cares about.

6: "Only trolls call other people trolls."
>...I'm fairly sure that's not right, normal people call trolls, trolls, because that's what they do.... if you wish not to be called a troll, show them you are not...
No people often call others trolls because they aren't capable of refuting their points. It was an ad hominen attack regardless and pointless to comment on.

@Maeko
>You're a bloody moron. The only person who should stay anywhere near the buggers is a bomber with a DBB.
Thanks for the insult there.

>Swordies should be backpedaling constantly and only take single strikes when they charge and then shield
>cancel to cut the animation short, rinse and repeat. This funnels every one of those overgrown moths right into your swipe range.
Correct. However if you've played the game much at all, anytime you swing you stop backpedaling. Leaving you vulnerable till your swing finishes and your shield cancel activates letting you move again.

>One of those nice little strategy that can be found in the thread most here have been TRYING to direct you to.
I already do exactly that.

>But as you know far more about these enemies than anyone else on these forums and are the only one
>that seems to be having large amounts of difficulty with Greavers, I guess we all are just doing it wrong by
>slaughtering every one of the buggers with nary a scratch on our shields.
Hey do me a favor, next time there's a t3 shock/fiend arena, go solo it, let me know how you do.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 23:16
#32
Tsubasa-No-Me's picture
Tsubasa-No-Me
Ok then...

Look. If you already know all the stuff we're trying to tell you, then take my advice: Stop with trying to change what DOESN'T NEED TO BE FIXED! I don't know how many time i need to tell you this: Grievers are NOT broken! If you are having Ping problems, let OOO know about it! FIND A WAY TO FIX IT! dont come here and whine about it, figure out how to fix your friggan problem. And NO! nerfing the crap out of everything is not that answer, nor will it EVER be. there are already a BUNCH OF PEOPLE her telling you that! We're tying to say, you have no support! you may be the one who doesnt care about the other players, and you know what? You can go and fail alone then.

Look, the way you talk here with your hiding behind the internet only makes you out to be a thick skulled idiot, and if you dont like it, change that way you talk! you can be a jerk ALL DAY LONG, and all you'll get is ticked off people, who'll take it out on other, essentially RUINING the nice, cute atmosphere of this game. There is a person i know who completely KILLED a guild because all he did was be a jerk, and all his unkind actions lead alot of the better players to leave... Yes, the internet is filled with this, but you know what? Take that CRAP out of here! That is not the SK way.

Is raging at the idiots ruining her game, please forgive her unkind actions, ye faint of heart...

~Tsu
DX<
>:U
O:<

LDKAHFGPQEJO N:O *@&% V*!%OIA:L

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 23:34
#33
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Responding to game related comment by Cross

Your sample size of one is not large enough to make sweeping generalizations of everyone dying to greavers and rage quitting about it.

If you are back pedaling in a clockworks, you have long paths to walk backward. I don't believe anything else in the game has the constant speed to keep up with a knight at base speed. Anywhere else, and you can usually circle kite. I'm assuming you know most of the levels, so why not bring friends to levels you can't comfortably manage?

Have you tried shield canceling? Works wonders for flourish/btb. With no asi, you can still swing the first wide swing and hit many things in front of you. With greavers speed, you shouldn't miss any of them in your swing.

What are you imagining that would hit you while you backpedal and swing?

Edit:
/hug Tsu

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 23:40
#34
Imperialstriker's picture
Imperialstriker
Time to jump in

The elitism and the like expressed by the OP followed with a lack of knowledge of proper argument refutation and counter-argumentation has pretty much made me discredit any of the validity of his posts.

And I won't argue with the OP cause as the OP won't listen, so feel free to bash me OP, for a response will not come from me.

Rather I ask the rest of the community to ignore this post, bump up other posts, and maybe even necro a suggestion or two so that we can just send this post into the graves. That way we stop feeding this guy and stop giving him reasons to go all out crazy with random non-interpretable (is that even a word?) gibberish.

Thank you, good day.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 01:51
#35
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
@Crossproduct Way to go

@Crossproduct

Way to go Cross OHNOEZ OOO, i was killed by greaver please nerf them!

What will be next from you? "ZOMG OOO, i was killed by fyling chair thrown by fiend please nerf them!" "OMGonoz i was killed by a lumber, they hit so hard, no matter they charging time is like eternity, OOO please nerf them!!" "OMG ONOZ my internet sux, i cant find source of lags, i cant deal with my PC, i got killed OOO please nerf everything! Make monsters stand still so i can kill them! OMG OOO please make monsters die just when they see me!"

SERIOUSLY! You cant deal with them? AVOID THEM. Its basical survival instintinct. LOL its like you see a man with a gun, you punch him in face, end up in hospital and write petition "Dear all weapon manufacturers, please make gun bullets slower and make guns shoot with delay becouse i dont have enough reflexes to avoid bullets"

BECOUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU, whinners who when get killed, instead of considering it a lesson (TO AVIOD THOSE THINGS or be better prepared next time) go to forum and complain about their helplessness and hurted ego becouse they just couldnt be able to kill something, they removed beloved TORTODRONE!

Becouse of ppl like you, who cant learn from their own mistakes, they had to punch that pacefull tortodrone, they got owned, they complained and OOO removed it.

Now greavers are the problem? You go, you cant kill then AVOID THEM, not complain and ruin game for everyone.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 14:26
#36
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Oh for the love of god, the

Oh for the love of god, the whole POINT is that Greavers are supposed to be the hardest monster in the game. If you screw up, you die. If they see you first, you die. If you get locked in a cloud, you die. Sayin' that, they also have extremely low health and are auto-interruptible, so its incredibly easy to NOT get haze-locked and they drop faster than a sack of tatties.
OP? Not at all! Why SHOULDN'T there be at least one monster that doesn't permit failures? 90% of the monsters can hit you 5 times in a row and still drop dead before they can kill you, there should be at least one ruthless mob that seriously punishes you for screwing up.

Next thing you know you'll be posting ranting that you died at JK and you want him nerfed again.

Snarby givin' you too much trouble? Nae bother, we'll just remove his damage.

Fact is that pretty much everyone gets their posterior handed to them on a platter by Greavers.
That group splits off into other groups though:
The vast majority: request help, advice and practice. They get better. They kill Greavers. They want harder mobs.
The whiners: they refuse to admit they need help, thinkin' that if they can't do it, it's impossible.
The pro-nerfers: who demand nerfs of absolutely everything that ever caused them hassle.

Grow a pair and practice.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:19
#37
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
But guuuyyys, he can't handle

But guuuyyys, he can't handle it with his ping. Why should he have to learn to play with lag? He knows how to do it, but being better than most of the knights, he should be allowed to kill every single monster with impunity, no effort required.

After all, taking a swing at a greaver leaves him open to attacks by other enemies. As opposed to, say, swinging at a kat. All the other kats waits for him to get his shield up before dashing.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:27
#38
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
...

Well, all I want is for the status cloud to be more visible. Nothing more, nothing less.

But since I have an opinion I'm getting banned again.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:40
#39
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
...Attentionwhorin' much,

...Attentionwhorin' much, Ren? What's that, like the fourth thread in half an hour you've managed to derail with that line?
I don't think the hazes really need visibility. Either you're outside them, and know roughly where the are, or you're inside them, and know about it, or you're attacking them and preventing them from creating a haze. Being able to see it better will only ever benefit you if you're running in circles and worried about strafing into a cloud, but if you're running circles around Greavers then...well, that's why you're runnin' into hazes, it's nothin' to do with visibility. You should pretty much always be moving away from the Greavers and any potential hazes.

@Demonic:
Ik, I've no idea where he gets this from. Ignoring a Greaver leaves you in danger of other mobs? What are THEY gunna do exactly? Nothin' that a simple sidestep won't entirely mitigate in all odds. The Greavers are the ones that merit your full attention, keep moving (which will not only funnel other mobs, but also keep you avoiding any projectiles) and kill the Greavers, then you're free to kill the other peons.
If you tried to attack the other mobs instead of the Greavers then you really just deserve to die.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:42
#40
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
@Darkbrady

Well, I find it unfair that we can barely see a large status cloud. And even if we run away, there's a good chance that a greaver will catch up. Yeah, you CAN still beat greavers, but I think it would be great if we could at least see the status cloud.

But then again everything I say is useless because having opinions gets you banned.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:45
#41
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
My point was that seeing it

My point was that seeing it is irrelevant, since you shold never be anywhere near enough it for it to matter. If it catches up, then it'll either unleash the haze and hit you, irrespective of whether you can see it or not, or you'll cancel it, making its visibility a moo point.

Seeing it's just unimportant really, you're either far away enough from it to not be hit by it, or you're already inside it; there's never a situation where being able to see it better would actually help you.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:56
#42
Renpartycat's picture
Renpartycat
@Darkbrady

Being able to see the cloud DOES help you.

Sorry, but I think I'd have a better advantage when I can see obstacles and enemies, I'm not used to killing invisible ninjas like some sort of sorcerer. I guess you're just used to Greavers by now, and you just can't see them as a nuisance as you've dealt with them long enough.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 17:50
#43
Aiolya
Even with latency they're not

Even with latency they're not so tough. Especially since the nerf, spawning mobs sit there for three seconds doing nothing now -.-

When they attack, just use the first swing of your piercing blade, shield cancel, repeat fast, profit.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:22
#44
Nechrome's picture
Nechrome
So, you're saying that you

So, you're saying that you have problems killing Greavers because you have lag?All this time I thought this thread was about Greavers being to hard. XP I need to read more carefully.

Lesee, if you have lag, well... don't go solo? If you have lag,you'll have other players to cover your back, unless they have lag too. XP THat's pretty much the best idea Ican come up with.

If you do have problems dealing with them not due to lag, I suggest a Troika line sword. If you time the swings correctly, you can kill entire mobs of Greavers in 2 hits without them getting to you.

Just my two cents. Hope I didn't offend you in any way somehow. Don't rage at me please. /holds shield above head

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:48
#45
Demonicsothe's picture
Demonicsothe
Necro, he's still going to

Necro, he's still going to rage at you. You didn't agree with him, even worse, you didn't read the part about him getting laggier in a party.

Stop insulting the op with your subtle namecalling and actually agree with him so the devs can nerf greavers to compensate for his lag.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:49
#46
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor
Make radiant sun shards lol.

Make radiant sun shards lol.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:15
#47
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
The fact that this thread is

The fact that this thread is so long about something so little confirms that it's a flame-war started by a troll. And you said "only trolls call others trolls", you're effectively calling him a troll, causing you to be a troll by your own rule.

I'm a pure gunner, and I find greavers hard, but I shoot them and get over it.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:36
#48
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
@Ren:I've explained twice

@Ren:
I've explained twice now why the visibility of the clouds shouldn't be a problem. You've yet to explain once how it will actually help, you're just saying "it helps stfu". Greavers can still kick my ass up and down, but not once have I ever died by then and thought "Gee, that wouldn't have happened if their clouds were luminous" I think "Gee, I screwed up and died." Feel free to try and explain how it'd help, other than running in circles around the Greavers, which I've already commented on.

@Lord:
Ah! T'was you, I mistakenly said BsoD; you two have the same profile pic. I mentioned you earlier that you posted in my original thread talking about slow-swords. Personally, I think they are the single best solution for Greavers ever since I read your post :)

@Demonic:
Spot on.

@Fehzor:
Don't be crazy, he's already said that using bombs are impossible. Don't tell him to use an impossible weapon on and impossible mob with impossible lag when it's all too impossible for an impossibly good play to possibly do the impossible!!!

@Hexyzle:
Only trolls use the "Only trolls call people trolls" argument, because it's as childish and ridiculous as everythin' else trolls do.
On a serious note, what guns do you use that you can kill them with, but have trouble? I find using guns easier than fast swords tbh. Just backpedalling and shooting a fast gun keeps them interrupted constantly. Pepperbox kinda works, but got tricky if they were separated, really needed to funnel them for that to work. Tried using alchemers and they workede enough, but not so well in large groups.
Not takin' a dig or anythin' btw, just curious; I'm somewhat new to using guns myself and am tryin' to eat down as much knowledge about them as I can; I should note that the only gun I've used on T3 Greavers is a Pepperbox with VH ASi in a party of 2; the other guns/Greavers I've tried against have only been in T1/2 on my gunner alt thus far.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 02:36
#49
Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
Honestly seeing Troll Award in the title now

"Among one of the best things a troll can do for trolldom is start a topic that causes everyone to either argue with each other over the same thing (albeit minutely) or gets them posting raging at the OP for their sheer stupidity (and thereby beginning a flamewar amongst the audience for various reasons involving the retaliation)."

Currently see a little bit of both :/

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 02:44
#50
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
S'hard to tell with a subject

S'hard to tell with a subject like this; there's threads on this issue every week so it's entirely possible someone thought "trollol I'll get a laugh from this" and is equally possible that he genuinely believes what he's saying.

http://photoserver.ws/images/ic1d4e40c7a4584dd.jpg

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