Spiral Knights - Are 5* gears significantly better than 4* ?

Are 5* gears significantly better than 4* ?

17 replies [Last post]

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 22:37

Leeroyj

This forum has been a great source of information all this while. I realize its always been the same group of ppl posting replies, even when the question has been repeatedly asked on several occasions - thanks for your patience. So, I am hoping that the question i am about to ask is not one of these questions -

Question 1 - Given the amount of CE required to craft a 5* gear, is it a given that all 5* gears are significantly better than their 4* equivalent ? Is this a given for both the weapons and the armor / shield ? Or are some 5* equivalents not worth the CE required ?

Question 2 - If you have to pick the top 3 weapons (not including armor / shields) that was worth the effort, which 3 would u pick ? not wanting to name names, to bias the set of answers :)

If this question has been answered in another thread, would be great if u ppl can put up the link :)
Thanks a lot to the same group of ppl posting responses :)

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:00

Demonicsothe

1. Almost a given for armour,

1. Almost a given for armour, since most sets share the same precursors from 2-4*. The 5* is what you wish to use, out of the possible branches. Shields will always benefit from having more health and defence in their respective categories, with some shields gaining more bonuses. Dark thorn shield, when upgraded into a Barbarous Thorn and heated, has more attack bonus than its pre cursors.

2. Worth the effort for upgrading? DA, brandishes(maybe), alchemers, all bombs that are worth using.

DA gains 3 swords in the charge, massive increase from just the one as avenger. Brandishes now do even more explosions, so its worth upgrading. Alchemer charges at 4* is just 2 bullets from the original charge, at 5* it is 2 more bullets, for a total of 4. Bombs get increased radius which is always useful

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:05

Culture

Hmm

It is more important to reach 4* than 5* in most cases. In terms of damage, 4* weapons are going to be able to hold their own all the way to the Core. Some weapons benefit noticeably from being 5*, such as the Divine Avenger or the Brandish line which get additional charge attack power. The alchemers and catalyzers are also all much better weapons at 5*. The vortex bombs are practically useless until they reach 5* because they don't achieve their full capabilities till then. Blast bombs and vapor bombs benefit from larger areas at 5*, which is a big plus for any bomber.

Most armors/shields have negligible benefit from 4* to 5*. The popular armors, such as Vog/Skolver/Volcanic Demo get additional capabilites at 5* which makes them worthwhile to upgrade.

So what I recommend to everyone is to first get to full 4*. Then you want to upgrade in this order for 4* to 5*:

Armors that gain additional abilities at 5*, including Barb Thorn Shield if you are a swordie and it is your primary shield
Weapons that receive boosts in attack performance at 5* - DA, Brandishes, Alchemers, Bombs...
Other armor
Other weapons
Shields

For T3 Lockdown, you really need all full-heated 5* gear, every bit counts there.

Question 2 - there are no top weapons, it depends on your personal play style. I would choose DA, GF, Ash... but that is just what works for me. These three things might not even be in someone else's top three.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:05

Sternlock

1) Depends on the item. For

1) Depends on the item. For most weapons, I would say yes, because killing an enemy with one or two less attacks can make a huge difference in many situations. Obviously, though, you'll notice the jump the most in Stratum 6, since the previous Strata would scale the damage down a bit. Bombs in particular usually gain a large boost to area coverage when jumping from 4 stars to 5. In some cases, the weapon's charge attack will gain an additional feature or effect in its 5 star incarnation.

For armor, some variants completely change their defense type at 5 stars, e.g. Vog Cub changing into Elemental defense from Ash Tail's Piercing defense when going from 4 to 5 stars. In other cases, you might get an upgrade to a special bonus the item grants, e.g. the Dark Thorn Shield upgrades the Low Sword Damage Bonus into Medium when going from 4 to 5 stars. With some other armor, however, the difference is much less noticeable - say, Heavy Cobalt into Azure Guardian.
Shields have a tendency to get easily overwhelmed in Tier 3 regardless of star level, so while a stronger shield will still definitely absorb more, you'll be wanting to dodge/shieldbump more often than block attacks outright. All levels of shields shieldbump exactly the same way. This is one of the reasons behind the growing popularity of the Swiftstrike Buckler among gunners.

2) Dark Thorn Blade, Blitz Needle, Pulsar.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 23:35

Demonicsothe

@Sternlock

I was under the impression that shields with more health/higher star bumps mobs further and at a faster speed, is it false?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 00:12

Leeroyj

Also, just to clarify - some

Also, just to clarify - some have said that catalyzers and magnus's bullets tend to travel faster at 5* - can anyone clarify / verify ? also, some are saying the shields dont make much of a difference between 4* to 5*, but some are saying it obviously makes a difference.

Is this based on the argument that - if u play well, shields does not make much of a difference (since the best defense is to not get hit) - and if u play badly, well, the shields can only get u that far. Also, yes, some shields give a higher sword damage at 5*, hence that itself is worth the 800 CE upgrade (which most of us take it at 700 CE anyway - due to 100 mist).

Thanks all for the responses - been very helpful information so far :)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 04:16

Bopp

largely agree

I largely agree with the other posters. Some popular armors (e.g., Vog Cub, Divine) are really different at 5-star than at 4-star. Some popular armors (e.g., Skolver, Mad Bomber) give twice as much offensive bonus at 5-star as at 4-star. Haze-style bombs have much larger radii at 5-star than at 4-star, and hence a much, much larger area of effect. These are some of the highest-priority items to upgrade. But in general you want a full 4-star loadout, before you push anything to 5-star. And in weapons, you will not see much difference, unless you are on Stratum 6 or maybe Stratum 5.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 04:28

Darkbrady

Out of weapons, bombs are

Out of weapons, bombs are probably the most affected by 5*, seeing that they gain radius bonuses, so the bombs do their job better by catching larger areas, whereas swords/guns typically just gain damage; they do the same job faster, whereas bombs actually do their job in a more extreme and efficient manner with upgrading. Other than that though, armour should usually take priority for upgrading, assuming that it's got significant bonuses you want upgraded. Anything without bonuses will generally just gain stats and although they're useful, they're arguably not worth an immediate 5* investment.

As Bopp says, get your full set to 4* then worry about 5*ing the things that'll get the most benefit first. Keep in mind to check the wiki to make sure that the gear you're upgrading gets the bonus you think it will ahead of time, not all the alchemy line paths give the same bonuses.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 09:56

Leeroyj

thanks for the feedback so

thanks for the feedback so far :)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 10:56

Fradow

1) I'm going with Culture

1) I'm going with Culture point of view and against Demonicsothe : 4* to 5* doesn't make that big of a difference for the CE you have to invest, except certain items which get special effects. In the end, you'll want to go full 5* because it's the obvious part to have a more powerful character, but 3* to 4* make a much bigger difference in most cases. As Bopp said, makes your full arsenal 4* before you start to upgrade anything to 5*, except if you have a good reason to do so.

2) That bring us to the top 3 weapons (i'll talk only about weapons, tho I think very hard of Vog Cub) which gain a special effect :
- first by large : Shivermist. Because the 5* version allow you to freeze Vana during P5, and Vana is the most overfarmed boss once you reach T3. It's also true to a lower extent for all haze bombs
- vortex bombs. Although it doesn't seem like it, using a 3*/4* vortex versus a 5* vortex bomb makes a big difference
- Valliance. I don't own it, but the knockback is present only when you reach 5* and totally change the gun

Honorable mention for DA, because of the 3 projectiles for the charge. But now that I have enough experience, I don't use the charge that much (because normal swing do better dps in most situations).

Keep in mind that's only my opinion.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 12:01

#10

Carthiah

This post has been pretty

This post has been pretty much beaten to death already, but I have a few more things to point out.

Diversity is more important than star level regarding shields.
Two 4* shields cost less than one 5* shield, but equipping a shield which is appropriate for most of the damage you will face is much more handy than star level. Given a choice between having one 5* shield or two 4* shields of different damage types, I'd take the two 4* shields any day.

In a lot of cases, there are much better things to spend your money on.
For instance: if you're considering upgrading your Ash Tail Coat to a Skolver Coat, you'll be spending 800ce, plus a bunch of other expenses (5000cr, materials, recipies, etc.). For about the same price, you could buy two trinket slot upgrades (get them in the trade channel, /2, for about 90-100ce each) and craft two Slash Modules or Quick Strike Modules. The defensive gap from the 4* to 5* versions of this armor are underwhelming, and it offers only a low damage increase. The two trinkets, however, offer a medium damage increase or a medium speed increase, which is arguably better overall. Plus, then you'll have two trinket slots and two trinkets which can be further upgraded.
The same could be said for weapon slots - Ash Tail is good enough until you can afford to open up your extra weapon slots. Which brings me to my final point:

Damage type is more important than star level in most cases.
Any 4* weapon with a damage type advantage will greatly outperform a 5* weapon with a damage disadvantage, and will even often outperform a 5* weapon which is neutral. Diverse arsenals lead to strong knights.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:41

#11

Leeroyj

Thanks for all the comments

Thanks for all the comments and summary :) one specific question - some have said that catalyzers and magnus's bullets tend to travel faster at 5* - however, i recalled reading somewhere else that the bullets dont travel faster, they just reload faster (hence making it appear like it is faster). can anyone clarify / verify ?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 03:25

#12

Darkbrady

Couldn't say specifically for

Couldn't say specifically for them as I don't own them, but at 5* some weapons do get extra benefits; blitz needle, for instance, shoots ever so slightly faster than the 4* version, so it's very possible that they do. However reloading faster isn't a bad thing either, as reloading is a tricky spot for you to be in, so having that end faster is also very useful.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 04:41

#13

Leeroyj

Thanks ! :)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 04:41

#14

Buckdida

Leeroyj: Yes, I can confirm

Leeroyj: Yes, I can confirm that Cyatalyzer bullets speed up as they gain more stars. I'm not sure if the 3* versions are any faster than the 2*, but the 4* bullets can no longer be outrun, and the 5* bullets move faster than you do, if I recall correctly. They are still very slow shots, but they are faster (and far more usable compared to the 3* version of the gun). I have a Biohazard, so that's the source for the info.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:09

#15

Clueless-Inferno

Neutralizer bullets against

Neutralizer bullets against industrial catalyzer:
2 people were spamming the shots by each other in training. Absolutely no difference in speed (of bullet or reloading).

And yes, you should upgrade fully to 5*. Except for Irontech Destroyer.
Brandishes get more DMG and explosions, avenger and Faust look cooler and get a better charge, WHB gains the power of the wolvers instead of a ghost swing, Haze bombs get a substantially larger radius, armor gets better defense, and in some cases better auxiliary stats (Skolver DMG bonus), UVs have a greater effect on armor, Guns look cooler and do more DMG/range, and you won't die as often in PvP.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:42

#16

Leeroyj

Thanks for confirming

Thanks for confirming Buckdida :) I know it sounds lame, but sometimes, aesthetic reasons are important too ! i love how some of the shields look at 5*. the way my skelly shield (5*) gives off a purple haze when im running around with it, for instance. never notice it before until i got a 5* skelly shield :) also, i always thought WHB will look amazing, i only gave up on it, cos a lot of ppl said its a difficult sword to use (or just plain crap). so i still only have it at 3***. Thanks for all the comments so far. Still, regarding magnus - is a 5* better than a 4* (or worth the CE to upgrade) ? is it faster ? reload faster ? anyone notice anything ? thanks in advance :)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:51

#17

Bopp

purple haze

"the way my skelly shield (5*) gives off a purple haze when im running around with it, for instance. never notice it before until i got a 5* skelly shield :)"

There are probably quite a few exceptions, but in general the 5-star armor and shields tend to have glowing graphical effects, and the lower-star armor and shields tend not to. So if you're into the glow, then you definitely want to upgrade to 5-star.

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Are 5* gears significantly better than 4* ?