Spiral Knights - Tradable Expansion Mission Items (Yes, I'm doing this)

Tradable Expansion Mission Items (Yes, I'm doing this)

22 replies [Last post]

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 15:06

Schattentag

As we are all aware, Expansion Missions were released today, along with a few new reward items for completing said missions. We are also aware that currently Expansion Missions are only available through purchase using actual money (not in-game currency). As a result, these reward items are available only to people who pay for the expansion. As many have stated, one of the main attracting points of Spiral Knights was the ability for a F2P player to reach the same heights as a P2P player, even if doing so required lots of grinding. However, with this new update, this point has been changed. These items offer something completely new - they're not just some kind of reskin or anything like that - and they are completely unattainable for F2P players.

Please note that I am by no means saying this current state is unfair to anyone. The fact remains that P2P players paid for content, and they're getting it. I understand that. What I'm saying is that this current state is different from what players have experienced in the past and that several players will find it unattractive.

Therefore, I suggest that, to maintain the general status quo that this game has kept for so long, these reward items be made tradable.

Does anyone agree or disagree with me? If so, please share your thoughts here in the suggestions forum, where those thoughts belong.

P.S. If it turns out that these items are simply bound and trading is just a matter of unbinding, please disregard this thread.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 15:37

Aemicus

Yes, I completely agree. To

Yes, I completely agree. To be honest, one of the main reasons I played this game is because it does not limit me as a F2P player. I could get everything in the game just by playing. Now these missions come out...
I could understand if there were a few levels that could only be accessed by P2P players, but having a whole new weapon line, probably with more to come, based on that? That is completely ridiculous.

I was on the point of buying some CE, because I supported what OOO was doing by allowing any player to do anything. I'm sure as hell not giving OOO any of my money now. And I doubt I'm the only one.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 18:54

Speedran

I fully agree, 100%.

I'm a F2P player, but I'm not biased on this because of that, so don't go "oh, he's a F2P, ignore this guy.".

SK has always been different from other MMOGs I've seen, in the way that paying feels like an option, you don't HAVE to pay to get the nice shiny things that are actually useful. You don't HAVE to pay to advance after a certain point. Paying is more of a way to get a bonus. For example, as F2P, you use mist mostly, which lets you do 10 levels per day. And if you go P2P, you can get an Elevator Pass and play as much as you want. However, an elevator pass is not needed to access any part of the clockworks, it's not even needed to go through the whole thing, start to finish, because you can always earn CE and use that. People who pay real money can buy CE instantly and craft far faster than the F2P users, but the F2P users can still get any weapon/armor they want, just by putting enough time and effort into it. P2P players can get special accessories and the like from promotions, but F2P users can always earn enough to buy one of these from them on the Auction House if they try hard enough.

The fact is, P2P has always given you nice little bonuses, but even if you're F2P, you can enjoy the game like a P2P player would, so long as you're dedicated enough to keep playing and earn it.

Then missions came out... I assumed "Oh great, here's where they roll in the P2P-only features...", but then I looked at what there was, and saw that I was not disappointed after all, everything in missions can be obtained through F2P, but at the same time, P2P has a bonus because they can use elevator passes and get the many missions completed at a faster rate. I had no problem with this, P2P players do deserve a bonus here and there, they're the reason the game is still running after all, but at the same time, F2P players are quite dedicated to the game (the ones that actually work to get 4 and 5-star items anyway), which is again, why I like SK, because they, unlike others, do acknowledge the importance of both their P2P and F2P players... or so I thought.

Today, Expansion missions were finally released. Anticipating them to be a new F2P-achievable feature that P2P users would have a bonus on, I was excited to try them out. Only to find out that they are completely, 100% P2P. And give out special items that cannot be traded, sold, or in any way given to other users (much like boss tokens). This is a deliberate, blunt action against F2P players, going against what I've seen in SK since I started months ago. Normally, when it's something like this, the F2P users can access this content by the help of a P2P player, but with this, you can't even invite a F2P user to the Crimson Order mission at all, there is absolutely no way at all to obtain these three new items as F2P.

I suppose OOO believed doing this would obtain them a rousing cheer from their P2P users, unfortunately for them it has done nothing but gain them a round of disappointment from F2P users, and even a group of P2P users, because most of the P2P users pay because they like the bonuses that they can get for being P2P, without feeling obligated to do so to continue enjoying the game just the same.

I guess OOO believed this would make others view them much like other MMOGs. Well it did, and that's the problem. Most people play SK because they're tired of the same old "Free to play - pay to enjoy" ways of the everyday online MMOG, which, until now, SK was different from that. But this to me looks like something else as well. All this time, Spiral Knights has been a F2P-friendly game, one of the only ones out there, and now, suddenly, there's a P2P-only feature, with special P2P-only weapons. This looks more to me like the old way became too low-profit for them, their greed kicked in, and they are tired of hosting a F2P-friendly game, and so have decided to do one of two things, I'm really not sure which it is:

1: Redesign Spiral Knights to be P2P-oriented, making the game much less enjoyable for F2P users, and making P2P users feel obligated to dish out cash to OOO.

2: Throw in as many P2P features as possible, and earn as much money as they can for a month or a year from now, and then shut the game down forever, and start a new one that will start out a P2P-oriented game.

Either way, this disinterests me. And if this is what SK is coming down to, you can count yourself out on at least one of your F2P members who has been playing SK since last year, and I'm sure I won't be the last one.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 18:56

Diamondshreddie

i completely agree with amecius

they even said that "you can enjoy all there is to offer for free!" now thats not the case ... these weapons are not only NOT resins, but incredibly usable weapons!!! i mean FINALLY a shadow DPS bomb and ? .. four bucks plz :/

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 19:12

Serell

Yes, this butchers the "you

Yes, this butchers the "you can enjoy all there is to offer for free" concept. I think they should have made the expansion cost 5000 ce, just enough to make me want to buy ce and without feeling obligated.

EDIT : Dang! i just saw someone use the new weapons in the training place, and they are going to toally OWN everyone in LD!!!
So now if you want to be good in LD, not only do you have to get trinkets, you have to pay :/

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:18

Eldibs

Sigh... Yes, you can play

Sigh...

Yes, you can play this new content without actually paying money. It's called a Steam Trade. Earn some CE in-game with whatever your preferred method is, and then perform a Steam Trade with someone to get the pack. I've seen them going for 2k-3kCE on trade chat today. If you don't want to play on a Steam account, that's your own business, but don't go around stating that they're completely unobtainable for F2P'ers.

Also, what is with the uppity attitude of F2P'ers? "I played this far into the game without paying a dime to support the company that made it!" Maybe you can't pay to play because of various reasons (too young to have a credit/debit card, too broke, etc...), but that doesn't mean you should be happy with yourself for not helping pay for server upkeep for the game you enjoy.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 22:27

Mk-Vl

Just letting you know they

Just letting you know they cant be traded or sold :/

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 23:41

Asukalan

STU with steam trade. I play

STU with steam trade. I play SPIRAL KNIGHTS, not STEAM KNIGHTS.

We have own trade system, own economy.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 01:07

Aemicus

What's with the uppity

What's with the uppity attitude of Steam players? A lot of people are actually not on Steam, and prefer it that way. I don't want to have to start over on a completely different site just to get some DLC that SHOULD be available through purchase in game WITHOUT paying real money. Just like their advertisements said!

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 01:28

Psychodestroyer

...meh

Actually, you can bind your existing account to a steam one, so you don't lose anything.

Cons of Steam:
-Steam goes down, Spiral Knights becomes a lot harder to get into until they fix it.
-You have to download the Steam SK client; The normal SK client won't work with Steam accounts, but the reverse does.

Pros:
-Steam services and all other thingies you can do that I don't know about.
-Voicechat

I'm a Steam player, but that's not by choice, that was by circumstance, to some extent.

With a free account, I can't do anything. Can't add friends, can't initiate trade. All these things can be done to me, but I can't do it back. It's a one-way screen.

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:28

#10

Speedran

"what is with the uppity attitude of F2P'ers?"

Uppity? Have you been playing for 2 minutes, spent the rest of your time on some other online MMOG, and just popped on the forums to say that little post there?

Steam is not the answer to all your problems, steam, if anything, is more trouble than it's worth from what I hear.

As for the way you seem to look down on F2P users, let me just quote what I saw a P2P user say on Spiral Knights while I was on earlier...

"The F2P players on this game are just as vital to the community as the P2P.

The P2P players buy the CE and get the special promotional stuff, but who's going to buy that CE and stuff from them when they want to sell it? That's the F2P players. The F2P players rely on the P2P players just as much as the P2P players rely on the F2P players, if you orient the game toward either, one or the other is going to leave, and when that one does, either the P2P players won't be able to sell special items/CE, or the F2P players won't be able to get special items/CE, either way, you'll lose your entire community."

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 15:09

#11

Severage

@Speedran:

Not sure who you're quoting, honestly. Nobody said that that I can see. o_o

~Sev

Thu, 03/01/2012 - 17:27

#12

Speedran

@ Sev:

This was a guy I saw in the Advanced Training while I was there playing with a few weapons while I waited for my mist to regenerate a bit.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 05:50

#13

Djrhasta

i am agree many people want that new weapon but you will get that if you purchase a expansion pack but thats not fair to otheres because the weapon you will get in the expansion mission is connot trade thats why is unfair to other people that F2P players many people want that weapon thats why i am agree that 3 rings allow the weapon to be trade and sell because that is the only weapon that connot trade or sell thats not fair

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 06:31

#14

Myg-Mog

SEGA & OOO, Match Made In Heaven, But...

How about they just lower the elevator energy cost down to 5 so F2P'ers can use up less energy attempting to get better items. I hope these new trinkets aren't too expensive. Otherwise, we'll have to get better!

Also, you remember the micro-transaction raptor? If a F2P'er enjoys the game enough, and doesn't feel obligated to actually spend money to play, he/she will put a little in because they feel that the game gives them that choice without forcing them to. It makes us F2P'ers feel more special, without feeling like the poor people stuck outside because everyone else had VIP tickets. I agree to keep doing the "Pay For Advantage" thing, and are not suggesting the price for anything else to be changed. I just want the pressure to be eased off of the F2P'ers while this is going on.

It isn't smart to spite your community when they are as dedicated as we.

Why are micro-transactions so fudging popular? Remember that not all of your community are paying, or CAN pay that is.

@Eldibs: Steam costs money too to trade on. I appreciate that you pay, and you help to keep the lights on. We just want to have the ability to obtain what you can. I actually enjoy the challenge of running on 100 Mist a day. I have to persuede someone to trade energy for some of my crowns, and maybe materials too. This encourages social activity which helps your community come together and makes everyone happy. Gaining new friends and allies too.

Also, trading is fun! ^_^

However, when we feel excluded or ignored in some way, we feel that they are encouraging P2P and we all have seen some good games fail because of this. I hope that does not happen with SK...

Not being able to trade is not fun... T.T

My earlier suggestion about the 5 elevetor cost is just what it is, a suggestion. I'm not acting "uppity" I'm stating an opinion. Get rid of that "I have money to pay for server upkeep! This makes me better then you whiny people." additude. Don't you dare.

Sigh... Rise and Fall is going to get popular because of this. Ah, whatever it's a good mission...

Edit~ I meant popular'er

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 11:46

#15

Hexzyle

Nick has already stated that

Nick has already stated that he is looking into making the pack buyable with CE

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:13

#16

Severage

@Hex:

Ctrl+C...Ctrl+V Ctrl+V Ctrl+V Ctrl+V.

~Sev

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 12:56

#17

Asukalan

@HexzyleO rly?And with the

@Hexzyle
O rly?

And with the relase of missions Nick said "they will be unlockable with CE" and how did it end up? Changed to "with purchase".

And saying he is working on it? He also added "it may be impossible". Alone adding that just show how much they are eager to do it, a dev says something could be impossible. It can take TIME but saying something is impossible just show that they really dont care and dont want to do it.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 14:45

#18

Psychodestroyer

....

As predicted, the conspiracy theories now roll in over the horizon.

/holds up umbrella.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 15:43

#19

Skold-The-Drac

Psycho

You got room under there?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 15:47

#20

Psychodestroyer

Sure

Just don't snuggle. I'll get creeped out.

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 16:59

#21

Nodocchi

There is no shortage of F2P

There is no shortage of F2P players, I would love it if some left as the price of CE might finally drop a bit.

On a related note: The new weapons SUCK. There is no way to craft them so the only way to put a UV on one is by rolling for it. I assume you can only the the weapon as a reward once so if you roll something bad or only mediocre you'll have to roll over it to get something better.

I actually prefer that the weapons are not tradable. Can you imagine the sort of crapstorm that would ensue if only P2P players could access the missions and they were the only ones who could sell these weapons for greatly inflated prices to F2P'ers? "Occupy Haven 3.0" is what would happen. Honestly OOO made the right decision by making the weapons untradable. In any case there is currently no way to craft these weapons so in order to make these weapons tradable OOO would have to create 2 and 4* versions to fill up the upgrade tree and probably scrap the 1* version so it can't be rage-crafted. Has anyone even thought about what making these things tradable would entail?

Fri, 03/02/2012 - 20:26

#22

Hexzyle

/me is throwing the book

@Schattentag
No, they are three levels of a weapon attachement: unbound, bound, and permabound. 0 star fall into the last category, as do the starter equipment and the mission rewards. Please note that the helmet crafted from the rewards of this mission is tradeable.

@Severage
XD well there's about 6 threads on the one suggestions page to do with having the pack buyable with CE XD. They're pretty much copy pasta, so I thought I'd do the same XD. Not to be smartalecky, but to be informative to all those who don't feel like reading each and every thread.

@Asukalan
The first line of your post is irrelavant, Nick stated this after the arguments over the change.
But I'm going to respond to it anyway. Nick changed his post because he realised there was no possible way to implement it purchasable with CE anytime in the very near future. Anyway, he's perfectly allowed to edit his post regarding this, you even agreed to it:
7.5 Content Transmission
You understand that the technical processing and transmission of the Services, including your Participatory Content and Public Content, may involve (i) transmissions over various networks; and (ii) changes to conform and adapt to technical requirements of connecting networks or devices

About making it buyable by CE, it's entirely possible, but they say it's plausably impossible to stop people like you from riding their [butts] to get it done, or wonder why things haven't been done. If they say that it's possible, you're going to expect it within the next month, if not the next fortnight, and you would rage if they didn't have it done in that time.
You just displayed this impatience of yourself by critisizing the devs on every single post to do with the subject. We all know you have huge grudges against the devs. Infecting the forum community with negativity is not a constructive way to deal with that.

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Tradable Expansion Mission Items (Yes, I'm doing this)