Sacred Order Page Vandalised Again

11 replies [Last post]
Ztype's picture
Ztype

Look:
First attempt:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/GuildPages&oldi...
(and another page but that was deleted by Equinox since it was a duplicate - long story)
Second attempt:
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=Sacred_Order&oldid=69158
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/LDGP&oldid=69170
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/LDGPs&oldid=69172
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/UserP&oldid=69168
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/UserPages&oldid...
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/GuildPages&oldi...
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000/GuildP&oldid=69166
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:Ztype&oldid=69156
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000&oldid=69157
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/index.php?title=User:A2000&oldid=69165

What I do not get:
Alright, I admit I copied this guy's work, and then edited it. But when you are logged out the wiki says you can copy the coding. So I am not in the wrong. This guy, who I know is an expert on the wiki, due to all his work, 99% probably knows (since he is an expert) that I did not vandalise his page. For some reason this guy wants to put his credits on MY work. Why? It is my work.

What I am most worried about is that, in order for my new guild Ultimus to grow, I need to make a guild page, but I do not want Ultimus to be vandalised as well.

This is The Tric's response (I have just noticed it there) - http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User_talk:Equinox#Blatant_infringment

First of all, I did NOT claim it to be my own, I just edited them and removed the ads. I can not see the problem with this.

Kazook's picture
Kazook
There aren't ads

He is 100% in the right, he has shared his intellectual property under the creative commons BY-NC-SA license. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/

His requirement for attribution is completely legitimate, and perfectly fair considering the amount of effort he put into designing the templates. I don't understand what your issue is for giving credit where credit is due.

King-Tinkinzar's picture
King-Tinkinzar
Just give credit!

I would be pissed if someone stole my templates/hardwork (unless it was a friend... like Vlad) without giving credit where it's due.

Thetric's picture
Thetric
Hey there

dude, its not your work.

I spent a good deal of my spare time programing these pages, and I didn't do them just for me.
i actually fleshed out the template pages with descriptions of the fields and mage them very easy to use (and in the current case /copy/)

what you're doing is effectively gabbing a book on the shelf, pulling off the cover, putting your own cover, and claiming it to be "your" book.
that's not really editing.

and those "adds" are pretty out of the way, I'm not sure how they would interfere. heck if you simply added a single line giving props "yo! check out TheTric, he's responsible for templates here", or w/e I'd be WAY okay ^_^

the other thing, I would be more than happy to help you out with your guild page. there IS a template for that, you would know since you copy pasted the components I created in order to create a duplicate of that template.

and the first time I "vandalized" your pages, I placed a small, nondescript, tag at the bottom of "your " work. its actually the same tag that's on the bottom of my primary templates anyways. (which are the same one's you are copying...)

one last thing, I am by no means a guru of the wikipedia.
I can design a little and program a little, that's partly why the designs took so much time and effort.
time and effort for which, I think, some amount of credit is due. wouldn't you agree?

I have a talk page here
(it also has a template on there, similar to the one on Equinox's page, its just easier to use XD)

and last thing ztype, it makes contacting easier if you include -~~~ on the end of your posts ^_^

Ztype's picture
Ztype
First of all, before trying

First of all, before trying to make me look at fault here, re-read this - http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User_talk:Equinox#Blatant_infringment. If you have not noticed, I had made changes to the pages. The reason why I did absolute copies for some of them was when the ads suddenly appeared again I was experimenting to get rid off them. Finally I found the duplicate I had accidentally made when I had first made my pages. Everything explained now, if you still have some questions about my actions please reply below. Also thanks for undoing your edits to some my work and you added two, not one of your ads the first time.

Rommil's picture
Rommil
lol wow.

my first time to ever post in the wiki section. just wanted to let you know, ztype, just how wrong you are.

Don't copy and paste his work (even to edit) unless you are 100% going to give credit where it is do. (and then , clear with him ahead of time to make sure its okay, to thank him, and ask what credit he wants on it).

I'd make my own analogy (that i think is more fitting than the book analogy). Its like if you traced someone's drawing, then colored it a little differently, or put a mustache and beard on it, and then wondered why they wanted to still have there signature on it, and didn't want you signing it like it was an original piece of artwork.

anyways. not here to quibble over anologies. If you are using his template, not only should you fully embrace letting him add whatever adds he wants, you should loudly go above and beyond to thank him for the help, and give him credit for his work.

Its sketchy of you to do otherwise, and even more sketchy of you to claim vandalism when using his designs. (he'd have a lot more right to call you a thief than you do to call him a vandal).

Ztype's picture
Ztype
look at what Equinox said, he

look at what Equinox said, he explains my point - http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User_talk:Equinox#Blatant_infringment

Fruits's picture
Fruits
Ztype, equinox doesn't

Ztype, equinox doesn't explain your point, he corroborates your stance because he doesn't believe that the wiki should contain any attribution of authorship. Whether or not anyone agrees with that or whether it's be good for the health of the wiki's accuracy and encouraging to content editors, you are technically correct on that stance that you don't have to.

All of that is completely aside from the attitude of grabbing someone else' work and displaying outrage of not being able to call it "your work" after minor edits to the point of calling his hints "vandalism" that's raising eyebrows. Let me be clear, I would be fine with others using my crap if I were in his place, but the one who's using it doesn't get to decide that and the fact that I were using something that I didn't make is more than enough reason for me to give the actual author a bit of respect on how he wants it to be used, even if there's a rule on this area specifically specifying that no one can force you to. It's not under the jurisdiction of the rules of the internet or the rules of the SK wiki, it's under the rules of life.

In this case, Thetric actively let you know that he was a bit concerned about it. If it were me, and if I had actually known what equinox affirmed after it happened, I'd still extend Thetric the courtesy of asking him how I could make things right while abiding by the rule. Instead, making this confrontational thread publicly and citing regulations when you could have talked it out amicably just looks bad and feels like a turn off to the playerbase from contributing to the user-generated wiki content in the first place. Why would people want to contribute their hard work to the community if said community is just going to not only mutate it against your intentions and be borderline belligerent about it? That's just not a wiki or community I'd feel good visiting, let alone contributing to.

So come on, be a good guy here; it takes so little and you have all the power!
Just thank the man and ask him what little he'd want, then do that and everyone's satisfied, we schmooze, we dance, we go home happy.

Rommil's picture
Rommil
Fruits

elegant, classy, and you are right.

I stand by my claim, he has more right to call you a thief than you do to call him a vandal. I don't think either of these terms are accurate, however. I think he is a contributor and you are a user. I also think that if you are going to use his work, instead of hiding behind a very flimsy defense, and poor judicial decision made by equinox, then you should give whatever acknowledgment the true creator of the work has asked for.

You SHOULD say, "hey thanks to Thetric for all his help to the community and the wiki page. Without his efforts, our page would not be what it is!"
Anyhow, thats my two cents. take it or leave it.

I don't think you are a bad guy at all. I DO think that you should give TheTric the credit he is do. And i also think that you should edit your thread and title, as you and your page have not been vandalized. And for the record, i believe its a pretty weak decision by equinox, and also weak to hide behind his week ruling.

Either way tho, doesn't affect me much, other than that I'm an artistic person, and thus do not like someone's intellectual property being appropriated.

okay, off to schmooze, dace, and go home, happy.

Jimbo-Jambo's picture
Jimbo-Jambo
I'm not a frequent editor of

I'm not a frequent editor of the SK wiki, nor am I familiar with its community, but from what I can tell: while ZType was definitely in the wrong for copying the template without permission or credit, bulldozing the page was a ridiculous overreaction by TheTric. He could have left a note on ZType's talk or, if all else failed, sought the help of an admin, but editing someone else's userpage is really not okay by any wiki's standards. Seems like a failure to communicate on both sides escalated the whole issue.

Ztype's picture
Ztype
Equinox said SK wiki is not a

Equinox said SK wiki is not a private code host. So I was in the right.

Skillkid
wtf did u get dat

how the flip did u get a guild page (or something like that) in the first place anyways.