Spiral Knights - When you nerf the crown reward from FSC

When you nerf the crown reward from FSC

56 replies [Last post]

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 08:54

Kosciuszko

I mean we all like being rich, but we all know too that money is meaningless in amount. Money is the difference between people, I only want to be rich compared to poor people, etc etc.

Please nerf FSC crowns. FSC was always dominant in terms of crowns, but now anybody who does anything other than FSC is a complete moron. I can't even play the rest of your game anymore because I can't control myself. I need FSC crowns. I had to beg my guild to go to shadow lair 2 weeks ago, and now that this mission is out what can I tell them to get them to go anywhere else? Seriously...

Could you buff the crown reward from shadow lairs so we can run them at a clear profit if we stay at or under 40 party energy revive cost for the whole mission without resorting to attempting to sell those materials which don't sell? Or make those materials do something else that will cause them to be valuable. Let us craft their stuff at normal alchemy machines or something.

Other fun things might be less abusive UV systems, or accessory systems. Very few people go for anything in this game that depends on a dice roll because every time you guys have made it a mistake to attempt the dice roll stuff. I'd like the ability to choose my UV, improve my UV from low to maximum, and add a second UV without risking the first. Right now the "UV" system is people who don't actually play the game, or have two+ accounts, burning 50 mist twice a day to get crafting UVs on 2*s. Is this what you wanted to have happen?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 11:32

Asukalan

Now calm down, wipe your

Now calm down, wipe your tears, read your post again and remove invalid argumen.... i mean delete your post.

"I mean we all like being rich, but we all know too that money is meaningless in amount. Money is the difference between people, I only want to be rich compared to poor people, etc etc."
I dont know what you mean, you want to be rich compared to poor people? You are complaining that you were rich but thanks to FSC other ppl can become rich too so you are no longer rich???

"Please nerf FSC crowns. FSC was always dominant in terms of crowns, but now anybody who does anything other than FSC is a complete moron."
Nerf FSC? Nerf T3 Boss stratum? I wont comment that.

"anybody who does anything other than FSC is a complete moron"
Well, its just your point of view. Or maybe your surroundings? Time to change friends/guild if they think like that since it shows that they are complete NOOBS (not newbs, just most pathetic NOOBS)

"I can't even play the rest of your game anymore because I can't control myself."
Oo,donno, do you have ADHD?

"I need FSC crowns."
Everyone need crowns. And not only FSC gives crowns.

"I had to beg my guild to go to shadow lair 2 weeks ago, and now that this mission is out what can I tell them to get them to go anywhere else? "
Time to change a guild again?

"Could you buff the crown reward from shadow lairs so we can run them at a clear profit if we stay at or under 40 party energy revive cost for the whole mission without resorting to attempting to sell those materials which don't sell? Or make those materials do something else that will cause them to be valuable. Let us craft their stuff at normal alchemy machines or something."
Complete nonsense, shadow lair is hard, if you die its your fault, in semi good party you can do it without any CE revs, and selling those mats is part of profit from SL. And besides, shadow lair is not for profiting, its mostly to make those unique armors you cant make anywhere... and you want to make them craftable at normal alchemy machines? So why would anyone go to SL? For me its sobbing that you cant go/cant afford shadow lairs = giv meh free stuff

Not going to say anything about UV system since im tired and i think that your argument is so silly that i even wont be able to answer anything constructive to it.

ps. are you from Poland? Your forum name sounds familiar.

ps2. edited for Echoez

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 10:33

Demonicsothe

To Asuka

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 11:01

Alice-In-Pyroland

Asuka are you capable of

Asuka are you capable of responding to people without being condecending?

Oo, do you have ADHD? Or other diease that makes you not able to control yourself?

ADHD isn't a disease, and using disorders people legitimately suffer from as snarky attempts at wit to cover up your own inability to simply make counter-arguments that aren't arrogant and belittling in every concievable way make you look ignorant at best, and an utter douchebag at worst.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 11:55

Damienfoxy

You moron, NO, do not touch

You moron, NO, do not touch the fsc crowns, people are struggling for ce, and fsc is the only way to get it

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:06

Erky

don't insult people Damien,

don't insult people Damien, you can get in trouble for that. :x I know I did..

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:10

Demonicsothe

Asuka may be condenscending

Asuka may be condenscending and going about it all in the wrong way, but the points still stand.

@Damien: KoA is the reason ce prices can get higher without falling. Not everyone can access it, and most people farm rjp for cr in order to get to fsc. When ce prices rise above rjp profit margins, that playerbase will not be happy.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:15

Mk-Vl

He does have a point about

He does have a point about SLs though. Its 1800 ce just to get in and then however many to make the item. It could have a slightly bigger output. I know its there for fun and the items but it does cost and arm and your firstborn snipe to get in

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:36

Shion-Sinx

just to know, what FSC stands for?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:46

Damienfoxy

This is why king of ashes is

This is why king of ashes is FAIR

In arcade, you need to finish a few floors before you even get to the firestorm citadel. The king of ashes pays out to compensate for skipping these floors, in exchange for a chance at some of the most valuable tokens.

And i'm sorry for calling you a moron. I'm just tired of people not seeing the logic in this.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:52

#10

Softhead

How is it fair?

You start at The begining of Stratum 6 in KoA. Stratum 5 has bad payout and it's best to go to terminal.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:52

#11

Paweu

"In arcade, you need to

"In arcade, you need to finish a few floors before you even get to the firestorm citadel. The king of ashes pays out to compensate for skipping these floors, in exchange for a chance at some of the most valuable tokens."

What?????????????????

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:55

#12

Damienfoxy

*facepaws* how ANYONE can't

*facepaws* how ANYONE can't understand this is beyond me...

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 12:57

#13

Iron-Volvametal

...

Pays out more for a Compensation that isn't Needed? The Hell's wrong with YOUR Logic?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:01

#14

Demonicsothe

Your logic said that since it

Your logic said that since it was harder to access arcade fsc, missions fsc compensates for it by not having to do the first few floors and give out more cr.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:05

#15

Damienfoxy

Nerfing a payout? Geeze you

Nerfing a payout? Geeze you must be daft!!! No, it's not affecting the market, it's the lack of promo packs.

Seriously, more money=bad market? ... I should report you because that logic is incredibly offensive to me.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:09

#16

Iron-Volvametal

...

Fun Fact: The Band, Daft Punk, got their name when a Negative Reviewer told them their Music was Daft. They became Successful afterwards. Thanks for the Good Luck.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:12

#17

Softhead

Before missions after

Before missions after YoTHD/Valentines, there was no high cost CE.

KoA: 7.5k crowns.

Also, does KoA start at D25 and ends on D29?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:14

#18

Paweu

"KoA: 7.5k crowns." Nope, its

"KoA: 7.5k crowns."
Nope, its ~12k crowns for just d24-d27, you don't need to do Vanaduke if you don't want to.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:14

#19

Chrome-Knight

A seriously pointless rant that I had fun typing 8D

It is truly ridiculous. Ce prices are a flaming high right now because of new updates and everything. When dragon wings were popular people spammed that trade button just to get them when they were just losing more money than the things were even originally worth. Now it's missions. Buy 7.5k cr (and rising) worth of ce and you can do a FSC mission and earn 12k cr. Wooooo 12k!!! But hold on. Do the math -.- Your profit is only like a little more than 4k cr. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. Maybe I'm just mad that Spiral Knights has a mini economy. Demand goes up, prices go up. It's simple, smart, but annoying. Maybe North Face jackets will come out on SK and people will throw crowns everywhere and murder snipes. I DONT KNOW D:!!!! adasfasdfdfa

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:15

#20

Asukalan

Nope, the levels depths are

Nope, the levels depths are same as regular FSC, starts at D24...D27 then D28 is boss and descend to D29 core terminal

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:16

#21

Paweu

"Buy 7.5k cr (and rising)

"Buy 7.5k cr (and rising) worth of ce and you can do a FSC mission and earn 12k cr. Wooooo 12k!!! But hold on. Do the math -.- Your profit is only like a little more than 4k cr."
I don't know what math you applied but you earn 12k cr for just d24-d27, you use up only 40 energy for those floors. So if the current CE price is 75 crowns per unit of CE you pay 3000 crowns to do those 4 floors and your profit is 9k cr. Do you see now how broken it is?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:17

#22

Severage

lolololol

I couldn't help roflmaoing at Damienfoxy's logic.

You have to get compensated for all those things you DIDN'T do. xDDDD

~Sev

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:20

#23

Damienfoxy

By everyones logic so far,

By everyones logic so far, you are all saying that more money, leads to a bad economy. Thats like saying more jobs will ruin the usa economy.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:32

#24

Iron-Volvametal

...

More Jobs=More People

More People=Less Space

Less Space=Limited Earth

Limited Earth=WALL-E

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:29

#25

Demonicsothe

Wai no WALL-E pic iron

More crown = inflation
inflation = less value
less value = more for a single purchase
ce will then cost more in crowns
T2 players do not have a crown drop buff
In fact, missions rjp pays less than regular rjp
T2 players lose.

But since the game is all about you, we should actually increase fsc payouts just for you.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:33

#26

Severage

@Damienfoxy:

"By everyones logic so far, you are all saying that more money, leads to a bad economy. Thats like saying more jobs will ruin the usa economy."

WOW! Imagine that! We ARE saying that more Crowns leads to a more unstable economy.

If you want to use a proper analogy, it's like saying printing more money in the U.S.A will hurt the economy.

It's called inflation.

~Sev

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:47

#27

Damienfoxy

The issue is not inflation,

The issue is not inflation, it is far deeper. We have two forms of currency, and one just happens to have more power. I advise a cost reduction on ce for alchemy costs. I mean, 800 to craft a 5 star is already rediculous. Decrease the CE cost to create, and increase the crown cost to create.

If people see it's cheaper to craft, they will be more likely to purchase hard to find recipes from AH.

I also advise to remove ce for unbinding, because lets admit, binding weapons is just unfair, i put money into this, i would LIKE to be able to sell my trinket slots and whatnot.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 13:52

#28

Demonicsothe

Its not inflation? How is it

Its not inflation? How is it not inflation?

Ce crafting cost is to stop people from achieving endgame too fast. A company wants people to use its products, no?

Remove ce for unbind? mkay, lemme fork over 16k for that 5* sword, and finish up my arsenal. Oh crap, fiends? OMFGWTFBBQ FIENDS TOOHARD.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:03

#29

Damienfoxy

They can always expand the

They can always expand the game, do you not account for that? Currently, there is no end game untill the core opens.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:09

#30

Iron-Volvametal

...

Hmm...

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:16

#31

Demonicsothe

Or, they can keep the current

Or, they can keep the current method.

Making players come back to continue their game.

Or use yours, where they attract players back at times. Play the new content, get off. Because nobody would need to grind gear for that new content.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:39

#32

Kosciuszko

Awwwwwwwww

Nobody likes my awesome rockin 'tude? I'll have to wipe my tears, go back to Master Skinner, and get a big shiny red apple to heal my bruised ego. waaa.

Anyway, I don't think I'm even slightly wrong, and I don't understand how asuka's mindless flailing could compete with the flawless shiny sparkle of my perfected brilliance. It is like comparing a linen smock to the golden gleaming Speedo of the Gods. Sadly, asuka is probably beyond saving in the logic hospital which is the internet marketplace of ideas, but I shall dissect the arguments for the sake of the rest of you, that you might know how to avoid the same gruesome fate!

"I mean we all like being rich, but we all know too that money is meaningless in amount. Money is the difference between people, I only want to be rich compared to poor people, etc etc."
"I dont know what you mean, you want to be rich compared to poor people? You are complaining that you were rich but thanks to FSC other ppl can become rich too so you are no longer rich???"

Everybody who is FSC capable is quickly becoming economy breakingly rich, much richer than we were becoming when FSC was less crowns and less easy to instantly access. Yes, I am saying that me being rich is good, everybody being rich is bad. This mechanical change is new, I was already profiting from old FSC, but not as quickly.

"Please nerf FSC crowns. FSC was always dominant in terms of crowns, but now anybody who does anything other than FSC is a complete moron."
"Nerf FSC? Nerf T3 Boss stratum? I wont comment that."

Asuka cannot comment when Asuka has nothing to say. The crown reward is too high. FSC mission converts 40 energy into 15000 crown. (12000 flat crown, 3000 in almirian seals which can be cashed in at 30 seals). There isn't anything else that does that in the game. Even if you hit 3 T3 arenas in a row, what would the profit be? Anything that involves the AH and only evenly competes is a ridiculous comparison considering that AH stuff does not sell that well or that fast, and you lose a cut every time.

"anybody who does anything other than FSC is a complete moron"
"Well, its just your point of view. Or maybe your surroundings? Time to change friends/guild if they think like that since it shows that they are complete NOOBS (not newbs, just most pathetic NOOBS)"

This is all about energy-> crown conversion rate. Is anything else like 40 energy-> 15000 crown? Please, enlighten me people! I very much want to hear about the T3 stuff you do that comes close to that rate. If you run a full 80 energy of tier 3, does it give you 30000 crown?

"I can't even play the rest of your game anymore because I can't control myself."
"Oo,donno, do you have ADHD?"

Here we see Asuka failing to enjoy the bountiful harvest of my artistic personality. We are all sorry you can't appreciate my incredibly perceptive humorous nature asuka... Maybe someday.

"I need FSC crowns."
"Everyone need crowns. And not only FSC gives crowns."

What else does it as well? It is all about the rate of energy+time -> crown, I don't see anything else like FSC missions.

"I had to beg my guild to go to shadow lair 2 weeks ago, and now that this mission is out what can I tell them to get them to go anywhere else? "
"Time to change a guild again?"

I think I'm sticking with my guys, because they actually know how to play. I don't want to deal with learning to work with other people again.

"Could you buff the crown reward from shadow lairs so we can run them at a clear profit if we stay at or under 40 party energy revive cost for the whole mission without resorting to attempting to sell those materials which don't sell? Or make those materials do something else that will cause them to be valuable. Let us craft their stuff at normal alchemy machines or something."
"Complete nonsense, shadow lair is hard, if you die its your fault, in semi good party you can do it without any CE revs, and selling those mats is part of profit from SL. And besides, shadow lair is not for profiting, its mostly to make those unique armors you cant make anywhere... and you want to make them craftable at normal alchemy machines? So why would anyone go to SL? For me its sobbing that you cant go/cant afford shadow lairs = giv meh free stuff"

I can afford shadow lairs, I have run every single one of them, most more than once. However since I don't tend to pay much money, it does take a while to raise up 450 CE for the key, 800 CE for crafting, something 4* to craft, etc etc. Right now I am averaging about 2 wipes per run, I am hoping to improve but I think we're running at a reasonable level of skill. I am happy working with other people who are as good as I am, if you are more skillful then congrats, but I think 20 energy raise expense in a shadow lair is reasonable.

I don't see those mats selling. Who are you selling them too? Does the price you get come close to making up the 450 CE cost of the key? Ever?

"Not going to say anything about UV system since im tired and i think that your argument is so silly that i even wont be able to answer anything constructive to it."

Kosciuszko has struck you dumb with his flawless logic. You lose 200 US lifepoints.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:41

#33

Iron-Volvametal

...

Come talk to me when you have a Forum Avatar.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:43

#34

Kosciuszko

I don't need an avatar to win all arguments forever.

I had one but it died when I transferred my account to steam. There's a lot of steam account stuff messed up atm and I don't see my avatar anymore. I'm up for input on how to fix it.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 14:57

#35

Iron-Volvametal

...

Don't worry, then. I'll just have to Imagine your Avatar looking like this.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:03

#36

Kosciuszko

You wound me sirrah

As Socrates didst say to Glaucon when in due time through discourse and rationality they sought to illuminate both the faculties and yea the very purpose of human life:

"He started it!"

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:05

#37

Serell

@OP :

@OP : ........................................................................

Off topic : Hey iron, could you help me get an avatar? I've been looking FOREVER and just can't find the place/button that changes your avatar.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:06

#38

Asukalan

"I don't understand how

"I don't understand how asuka's mindless flailing could compete with the flawless shiny sparkle of my perfected brilliance."
._. i loled

"Yes, I am saying that me being rich is good, everybody being rich is bad."
So its again about you loosing your 'rich' person status becouse other people in same tier class can acces FSC? Selfish, selfish... and alos, not everyone are becoming rich, imagine, that there are loads of people who dont have T3 or even T2 acces, they are the poor class, if you really want to divide people between poor and rich.

"The crown reward is too high. FSC mission converts 40 energy"
Firstly, FSC mission takes 50CE... you sure we are playing same Spiral Knights game? And secondly, so its about mission now? On first post there was nothing about FSC mission, it was FSC only.

"This is all about energy-> crown conversion rate"
The lvl payout is not crowns only, there are mats, and one good mat can change completly useless depth into something profitable.
And FSC run takes 50CE not 40Ce.... Ands its all about CE->CR conversion rate? Where is the fun of playing depth you like?

"is all about the rate of energy+time -> crown"
Oh he joy of grinding, go slash, loot, repeat...

"I don't see those mats selling. Who are you selling them too? Does the price you get come close to making up the 450 CE cost of the key? Ever?"
As i said before, i dont consider Shadow Lairs as source of profit. Enough prize is being able to make UNIQUE armors, which are quite good, and avaliable only there.

"Kosciuszko has struck you dumb with his flawless logic. You lose 200 US lifepoints."
Kosciuszko has struck my logic with his dumbness, not contiuning to prevent dumbfection to spread into my logic mind.

"Very few people go for anything in this game that depends on a dice roll because every time you guys have made it a mistake to attempt the dice roll stuff."
Oh, wow, so from where do we get all those token 2/3 star items with UVs that we can buy from players? Noone goes for dicerolling UVs from punch?

"I'd like the ability to choose my UV, improve my UV from low to maximum, and add a second UV without risking the first." 2UV Max + 1 Very high and french fries for that ASAP please!

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:13

#39

Iron-Volvametal

@Serrell

Here ya go. Just Click on "Edit" & choose the Avatar you want. If you ever want to Change into another one, Click on the "Forum Preferences" Button on the Top Right, below the Blue Bar Header, next to the Search Bar.

EDIT: I see you've got an Avatar. Glad to Help.

@Kosciuszko A possible Quote from the Bible?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:12

#40

Shion-Sinx

when you have no arguments

point out some useless thing like avatar or parents. always work.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:13

#41

Serell

@Ironskullkid : Thank you

@Ironskullkid : Thank you :3
i lookz cool now :D

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:16

#42

Iron-Volvametal

@Shion-Sinx

Yup. Always.

Oh, & about your Block of Text, Kosciuszko.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:16

#43

Asukalan

@Shion-Sinx yeah, one calling

@Shion-Sinx
yeah, one calling himself 'flawless' works too... or does it?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:19

#44

Serell

@Ironskullkid

meme...is... hilarious XD
must...watch...again!!!

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:23

#45

Kosciuszko

Huh

I don't think the mat reward over time would make up the difference, but give me a concrete example from the last week or two of playing, and did the mat quickly sell the first time you put it up on the AH? 50 vs 40 energy doesn't change the fact that that tier is super over rewarding.

At the moment there are two items under search "Flourish" with three UVs. Three items with 2 UVs. The max current bid is 9755, most of them have current bids under 10000. These people put down 75000 for 2Var, or 225000 for 3Var. This system isn't even normal gambling bad, it is state lottery bad. I don't want it to cost 10 CE to put a Low variant on an item, but the current system is bad, it is just bad! Tell me you wouldn't prefer it if you could work to improve your items rather than this.

Under "Coat" search in armor, there is 1 3V and a pile of 2Vs. Only one of those has a bid on it near to the 75000 cost of the variant roll alone, assuming the coat was made on mist and the cost of creating it can be ignored. That one has one of the UVs as Shock Maximum, and it still isn't breaking even yet! Hopefully it might by the time it sells, but it isn't there yet!

Most UVs are singles coming from ragecrafting 2* items from mist, and I would very much like to hear from the people who are going to Punch about what their profit margin is and how many times a day they roll, etc.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:30

#46

Serell

ummm... you can get multiple

ummm... you can get multiple UV's from crafting, can't you?
(Note me if I'm wrong [besides you, Kosciuszko])
So maybe those people selling the items with 3 UV's didn't go to punch....?

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:32

#47

Shion-Sinx

Asukalan & Ironskullkid

yeah, the more compenetrated the person is to answer the better (read funnier) will be when you point a useless thing.

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:32

#48

Asukalan

yes, you can get multiple

yes, you can get multiple variants when crafting. Also you can get an new variant when upgrading item that already have 1 variant resulting in having 2 variants item

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:37

#49

Mk-Vl

serellyou can but i'm pretty

serell

you can but i'm pretty sure your chances are (chance of getting shadow dragon wings from a LB)*(chance of crafting a UV)*(chance that someone will give you 3000 ce for free)

but its possible

EDIT: http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Unique_variant

Wed, 03/14/2012 - 15:35

#50

Iron-Volvametal

Crafting Mulitple UVs is Possible.

I had Low Freeze on my Heavy Demo Helm. When I went to Upgrade it ino Mad Bomber, I wanted to see if I could get a Better UV.

I did. 3 of 'em.

EDIT: Darn, Double-Snipe.