I noticed that the 15 min to get 1 energy point is UTTERLY PREPOSTEROUS! Sure we can buy but we cant actually get the money if we don't have enough energy in the first place. My suggestion is that instead of 22 hours to get 100 Energy, turn it to 12 so that more people can enjoy the game more often. And with that in mind, my other suggestion is energy extension, its an item that can boost their max energy (not the crystals) like maybe by 50? But it must be for a HUGE price to keep it balanced.
Energy
Why make a new Energy post? They are everywhere, and your idea has been stated in one fashion or another. And it's a bad idea.
CE is there to make OOO money. Using in game currency (Crowns) to buy energy gives OOO nothing, while increasing the amount someone can play without every paying any IRL money.
Here's a better idea. Use IRL cash to buy said "extender" which would increase your play time with a one time set price. Gets OOO some cash, w/o eleminating the need for CE while still extending your "free" playtime. Or, just play the darn game, using CR to buy CE when you need to, and then use IRL to buy CE to craft/sell for CR. Not too different from a cash shop style "F2P" game.
Not to judge how someone lives their life, but 2-3 hours a day should be plenty. Kids/teen/young adults have schoolwork (more than likely) and adults should have jobs and other responsibilities. Buying CE to use on the weekends should be somewhere around 10-15 IRL cash a month, not too bad for such a fun game.
This **** is annoying. The target demographic of 99% of games (I imagine this one is one of them) are 18-35 yr olds, so I don't care that some 13 yr olds can't get the cash to play more without having to stockpile CR to buy CE, and frankly from a business standpoint I doubt OOO does either. And if you are part of the likely target demographic and whine about the (miniscule!) cost of CE, trying getting 1 less coffee/burger/Mt Dew a week and you should be golden.
There is NO free lunch, get used to it.
/rant
You aren't taking into consideration that some people literally CAN'T pay.
If people literally can't pay, then they should be EXTREMELY thankful that OOO LET'S them play for free. What a great game to play for free. I can't help but notice it is more content than the average xbl or playstation home user gets for a $15 download.
But seriously, if someone CAN'T pay, then they should send OOO a thank you email for offering such a great game for free.
I don't understand where people feel an entitlement to play this game for free. It's not, and yet...we get to play it for free anyway.
Im with Mainfenrir. I agree with him, except the max energy doesnt sound to hot of an idea
If someone is really in a situation where they can't drop a few bucks a month on something they enjoy (something they need a haflway decent computer and high speed internet, both of which cost a bit of cash) then they probably should be spending their time differently. I mean, if they literally CANNOT pay 10 or so bucks a month, then they probably should really be investing their time in better pursuits, such as looking for a better job? Working more to pay off the mountain of debt that is keeping that 10 dollars out of reach or some other way to pull themselves up from that level of poverty.
I really do not mean to be down on anyone who is having an extreme financial crisis. I myself lost my job with the economy crash, though I have been lucky enough to find another and am now working on the debt I accrued from living on a credit card for months. However, I can't feel pity for someone who is in a rough spot and whines about not being able to play a SK for 6 hours a day uninhibited. You have better things to be doing.
And in reality? No manufacture, no publisher, no store owner, no writer, no movie director, no video game company owes anyone anything just because they can't afford it. It is not their fault, and they are in business to make money and support themselves. They don't owe you a free game, but they give you one that you CAN play for free, if limited in time per day without skillful resource management or cash purchase.
The advertising is not wrong or misleading. This game can be absolutely 100% free through to the end content and beyond. You don't have to pay a dime to see everything this game has to offer. It make take you longer than someone who is paying, but you will still get to experience everything. Free. To. Play.
Get over yourself.
If someone is really in a situation where they can't drop a few bucks a month on something they enjoy (something they need a haflway decent computer and high speed internet, both of which cost a bit of cash) then they probably should be spending their time differently. I mean, if they literally CANNOT pay 10 or so bucks a month, then they probably should really be investing their time in better pursuits, such as looking for a better job? Working more to pay off the mountain of debt that is keeping that 10 dollars out of reach or some other way to pull themselves up from that level of poverty.
SOME of us, don't have jobs and are injured/unemployed/too young to work. Don't be @$@%$$@ ignorant.
I really do not mean to be down on anyone who is having an extreme financial crisis. I myself lost my job with the economy crash, though I have been lucky enough to find another and am now working on the debt I accrued from living on a credit card for months. However, I can't feel pity for someone who is in a rough spot and whines about not being able to play a SK for 6 hours a day uninhibited. You have better things to be doing.
You say this, yet your first statement really doesn't reflect this.
And in reality? No manufacture, no publisher, no store owner, no writer, no movie director, no video game company owes anyone anything just because they can't afford it. It is not their fault, and they are in business to make money and support themselves. They don't owe you a free game, but they give you one that you CAN play for free, if limited in time per day without skillful resource management or cash purchase.
I will agree with you here.
The advertising is not wrong or misleading. This game can be absolutely 100% free through to the end content and beyond. You don't have to pay a dime to see everything this game has to offer. It make take you longer than someone who is paying, but you will still get to experience everything. Free. To. Play.
Currently, as of now it's not misleading but if the current energy problems, economy, blah blah, etc. don't get fixed the game will shift into P2W and then it's false advertising, which will make the game and OOO look bad. I do agree with you that you get to experience everything for free, however with the current crisis's looming on the horizon, the players feel that the Free To Play aspect has so many "strings" that what you say is irreverent.
The Problems:
Energy Crisis
Tanking Economy
No Auction House
No Crown Sinks
Horrid Inflation
Too many limitation on "newbies"
We all understand, OK check that, MOST of us understand that OOO is a business and needs to make money, however if they do nothing and just leave things as they are, it is going to send the wrong message to the newbies, and it also looks like this has already started. That is why there are so many bitching. They are not content with just 1 hr of playtime, and I don't blame them. 1hr free is like a demo not a game. With only this small window, they probably are starting to feel that this game is just another one of those P2W masquerading as F2P. This will hurt the game overall in the future, cause loss of revenue, and hurt OOO's reputation as a whole.
No one wants to play a game that limits their gameplay horribly.
The bottom line is that OOO MUST solve the problems listed above to actually make this game something and to make a profit.
Hopefully they can find some balance.
Oh and it doesn't help that the paying players are belittling, being rude, and hating on the newbies for their bitching.
We don't need a civil war on top of things.
The major flaw in Spiral Knights is the energy issue, and only the Spiral Knights fanboys aren't admitting there's a problem there. I lurk here and notice that many new users keep complaining about these issues, yet only the same few users try and make it seem like there's no problem at all.
It's hard to keep new players when they see that at first they can only play for a limited amount of time unless they spend money. Sure, even a newbie might have been able to afford 100 Crystal Energy at first, but the prices are rising, and will continue to rise; they're now averaging over 4k Crowns per 100, which means it costs a lot more Crown and you get much less profit from your runs.
Even if they -can- make little profit, or even as much profit as the first few days, it's a major turn off for a lot of players when they see they have to frequent the markets just to continue playing the game for free.
The thing about being able to trade Crowns for Crystal Energy is another issue, because it means less people will actually feel obligated to buy Crystal Energy and will just trade for it with Crowns, which means less players supplying the Crystal Energy, and this causes prices of Crystal Energy to rise. At a business standpoint it isn't wise to allow fewer buyers to try and keep your business afloat as it's incredibly easy to lose these ''pillars'' of the business. How much money do you think these players can shell out to feed theirs, along with others' needs for Crystal Energy before they say, ''I can't really afford this as much as I used to'', or even ''I don't even want to play anymore''? There are little buyers to begin with, but with even less the Crystal Energy prices rise further, thus not allowing most players to even afford it often enough to help keep their interests in the game when they have to play for an hour and a half, then leave the game so Mist Energy recharges in about 22 hours.
It's hard for players to even see the worth of buying any Crystal Energy not only because of the Crown/Crystal Energy trade option, but because of the fact that the game doesn't have much to offer that's worth paying for. They advertise this as if there's thousands of ways to customize dungeons, but that's only the mix of them, not the actual maps themselves.
I've noticed the longer I play Spiral Knights the ''smaller'' the dungeons get, because they're the exact same maps everytime, so I end up already knowing, ''Okay, there's nothing in any of these blocks, and nothing in these bushes here, so no point bothering with them'', or ''There aren't any secrets over here, so I don't have to waste my time looking for any''. The name of a map means it's that map, and no matter what order it comes in it's always that same map with the same name. The only thing players can customize is the order in which you see these same maps.
The company can either find ways to fix the Energy issue, or they'll continue to see only a small amount of players, and an even smaller amount of players that pay compared to that, which will cause them to have to shut down the game. This isn't the first company to suffer from these issues. The way the game is now is that it's ''just a quick buck'', but not much of a long-term investment that will net -real- profits.
Maybe they can lower the cost of dungeon runs from 10 to 5, or maybe they can let the Mist Energy recharge much faster, or whatever, but they need to do -something- or the game will continue to ''turn off'' a lot of new players.
Spiral Knights, or -any- MMO for that matter, cannot survive off of just ''casual'' players. A lot of players currently only play until their Mist Energy runs out, then they stop playing until it recharges, but this hurts the company. ''Why pay for a game I only play for 1~2 hours a day?'' MMOs survive on having more players spend a lot of time in the game, getting hooked, and therefore more likely to choose to pay, or get more friends to play, which are more opportunities to make more money as well.
You prove some valid points, Loki, and though this may be true, I can see a few small issues with your argument. Though, I will admit that I may as well be thinking on the short end of things.
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It's hard to keep new players when they see that at first they can only play for a limited amount of time unless they spend money. Sure, even a newbie might have been able to afford 100 Crystal Energy at first, but the prices are rising, and will continue to rise; they're now averaging over 4k Crowns per 100, which means it costs a lot more Crown and you get much less profit from your runs.
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On the market issue, I've been surviving off the 100 CE for quite some time, and with a recent trick I've developed, I've managed to play for a really long time without spending a penny past before I knew about the whole Crowns thing in the first place. As for the rising prices, as long as players play, the increases in prices will not be too much of an issue, and as of lately (though this may have been due to the weekend) the price seems to be fluctuating between 4010cr and 3985cr, so we're not getting too far above 4K, and I would like to hope that the price will continue to fluctuate within about 100cr of the 4k mark from here on out. A pipe dream, but still a nice one. Profit wise and based upon my experiences , a full run on T1 generally provides about 3~3.5k crowns, while a full run on the T2 yields upwards of 6.5k, not including the sales of any materials located and sold to others. The lack of funding also encourages player trade, which is important to stay afloat, it seems.
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Even if they -can- make little profit, or even as much profit as the first few days, it's a major turn off for a lot of players when they see they have to frequent the markets just to continue playing the game for free.
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Though I enjoy the trading aspect, I have to agree with this. I know several people who would concur as well.
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The thing about being able to trade Crowns for Crystal Energy is another issue, because it means less people will actually feel obligated to buy Crystal Energy and will just trade for it with Crowns, which means less players supplying the Crystal Energy, and this causes prices of Crystal Energy to rise. At a business standpoint it isn't wise to allow fewer buyers to try and keep your business afloat as it's incredibly easy to lose these ''pillars'' of the business. How much money do you think these players can shell out to feed theirs, along with others' needs for Crystal Energy before they say, ''I can't really afford this as much as I used to'', or even ''I don't even want to play anymore''? There are little buyers to begin with, but with even less the Crystal Energy prices rise further, thus not allowing most players to even afford it often enough to help keep their interests in the game when they have to play for an hour and a half, then leave the game so Mist Energy recharges in about 22 hours.
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The low cost of Crystal Energy seems to be enough to keep people buying, and while yes the prices are rising (as per supply and demand), as new players flow in, new buyers of said energy appear as well. Part of the appeal of the game is the player demographic, along with most of the dungeons, are dynamic, even if said dynamics isn't the most noticeable or noteworthy. As more players flow in who play this game more than one to two hours a day, the number of users who buy Crystal Energy is likely to increase. Breaking from the circular statement I've said, even if players lose interest because of the slow pace, players who are on a more casual time scale will find it pretty rewarding, and just about as fun, as they can use their energy for the day and then go do something else until about the same time tomorrow.
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It's hard for players to even see the worth of buying any Crystal Energy not only because of the Crown/Crystal Energy trade option, but because of the fact that the game doesn't have much to offer that's worth paying for. They advertise this as if there's thousands of ways to customize dungeons, but that's only the mix of them, not the actual maps themselves.
I've noticed the longer I play Spiral Knights the ''smaller'' the dungeons get, because they're the exact same maps everytime, so I end up already knowing, ''Okay, there's nothing in any of these blocks, and nothing in these bushes here, so no point bothering with them'', or ''There aren't any secrets over here, so I don't have to waste my time looking for any''. The name of a map means it's that map, and no matter what order it comes in it's always that same map with the same name. The only thing players can customize is the order in which you see these same maps.
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We as players have the most control over the Strarums, but I am pretty sure that the floors themselves are selected at random. Yes, eventually you'll see all of the versions of every map, but until then, why not enjoy it? The advertisement you mentioned may refer to "dungeons" as the entire Gate, in which you really can have thousands of combinations. Not only this, but to make it harder to see every single floor, the depths cycle at each elevator, and each gate will eventually be replaced by another. On one final note on the matter, with experience comes efficiency.
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The company can either find ways to fix the Energy issue, or they'll continue to see only a small amount of players, and an even smaller amount of players that pay compared to that, which will cause them to have to shut down the game. This isn't the first company to suffer from these issues. The way the game is now is that it's ''just a quick buck'', but not much of a long-term investment that will net -real- profits.
Maybe they can lower the cost of dungeon runs from 10 to 5, or maybe they can let the Mist Energy recharge much faster, or whatever, but they need to do -something- or the game will continue to ''turn off'' a lot of new players.
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Due to just how new this game is, I do not think it is currently possible to legitimately nor correctly predict player influx effectively. Also note that OOO happens to have four other currently alive games it has released (this information courtesy of the little Three Rings" button in the bottom right of this page), and while I cannot say I've played any of them, I have heard of them all, each one about a year apart. I am unsure of what issues are being referred to, but I understand where you are coming from on the matter. If memory serves, the other four games also have a structuring similar to Spiral Knights in terms of the "Free but you can pay if you want to" design. The "Quick Buck" profit strategy allows the company to continue to produce content for both this game and for the other ones as well, along with future developments. The turn off issues is understandable, but for those that do not quit on the first day, they will find that their ME has recharged some. This is one of the few MMOs that I believe is effectively balanced for both casual and intensive players.
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Spiral Knights, or -any- MMO for that matter, cannot survive off of just ''casual'' players. A lot of players currently only play until their Mist Energy runs out, then they stop playing until it recharges, but this hurts the company. ''Why pay for a game I only play for 1~2 hours a day?'' MMOs survive on having more players spend a lot of time in the game, getting hooked, and therefore more likely to choose to pay, or get more friends to play, which are more opportunities to make more money as well.
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For a counter argument of the first sentence, please refer to Farmville. Actually, I think that pretty much counters the entire paragraph....
Quite a bit of thought was put into the balancing of currencies. More than it may seem in fact. Casual players can just play when they have time or a little bit a day, and the more intensive players can put money into energy if they so choose. The fact that one receives so much energy for so little is a draw for even weekend warriors (so to speak). 200 CE is a really immense supply if you only live off of the Mist Energy, and since it's only $0.75USD, the "one won't hurt" mindset applies, thus bringing in just under a dollar for each player that feels this way. It doesn't seem like much, but the pennies add up. The inclusion of selling CE for Crowns means that those who perform actions such as Golf Farming must find less direct ways to do so, reward wise (what would be the reward? More energy? More Crowns? If you can buy energy, you can sell it for crowns, and vise versa thus neither is necessary). The requirement to Transmute is another way that purchasing Energy is encouraged. Since it takes more energy for the higher star recipes, players who are short on crowns, short on time, and in a hurry once again fall under that "one won't hurt" mindset. If anything, I think this company has created an organization with results that can nearly directly compete with other games of this organization and design itself, and even more so, since what players buy is raw currency, as opposed to some fancy weapon or feature. Though please note that this is just my opinion on the matter.
Oh, and briefly, on subject of the first post, I think the energy organization is fine. This will provide a bit of background on my bias if the above statements seem unsupported or opinionated.
new ideas hee-ah! get your red hot new ideas hee-aahh!