Someone sees you with sees you with P2P stuff (wings, hammer etc...) and makes some remark about 'Pay to win'ers...
Sometimes I wonder why people bother with generalized hate when they fully DON'T know they person behind that screen. They don't care who he is, what he did, or what he's like. All they know is that they fit into the category 'to be hated' and just hate on them.
Geez.
*shrugs* Call me what you like, I like the game so I support it. Yes, I get something out of it also... CE, pretties, a fun as hell expansion mission, but if I did not think the game was worth supporting I probably wouldn't.
The interesting part is that every F2P player that has anything 3* or higher wouldn't have that nice gear without a P2P player. P2P players are the sole resource for the CE trade. SOMEBODY had to buy it, it might not be the person buying it with Crowns, but somebody had to or it wouldn't be there for them to buy.
~Gwen
I make it a point to rub it in their faces.
"The interesting part is that every F2P player that has anything 3* or higher wouldn't have that nice gear without a P2P player."
That isn't true - treasure boxes drops, token items.
True but you can't get anything higher than the tier you are in so even if you do somehow manage to get something from boxes it would have to be in stratum 4 and it would have to be a 4* item and you have to get a shield armor helm and weapon to get into tier 3 and then a chance, that is bacicaly nothing, of getting 5* items finaly.
Edit: Someone who can get even one 4* item in stratum 4 is one of the luckiest people in game. Also you can buy scissor swords i guess.
Yes. Because relying on treasure boxes is viable to getting gear.
I'm F2P, and it does annoy me that some people have to earn their gear whilst others can simply buy it. Of course, skill can never be bought with money alone... and there are plenty of people willing to teach new players how to play.
Energy is primarily a capitol good, so buying it benefits you less and less as time goes on, as you can easily accumulate more if it later on as you get better at the game and earn better gear, similarly, trading CE for CR benefits you far more earlier on. Being that I can farm cr to my hearts delight as an "endgame player", buying energy for me doesn't help me much.... I spend way more than the energy is worth to me on things like big angry bombs. The only reason I would buy energy would be to support the game- given that the game "tries to make money" and "is a company" and "has to make money somehow" upon every update, I choose not to support it as I disagree with that attitude, not to mention that future content may not even require my ce. However, I love the art style, so I continue to play.
I don't care whether you think its viable or not, its a way that excludes paying players from the chain.
"you can't get anything higher than the tier you are in so even if you do somehow manage to get something from boxes it would have to be in stratum 4 and it would have to be a 4* item."
Not quite true. When I was a noob running in cobalt armor I managed to find a 4* Virulisk Suit. It was in Tier 2 so your sentence doesn't really make sense until you said Stratum 4, which is where I think I might have nabbed it.
~Vescrit
Then what he said is true. You have to be Stratum 4, which is contained within T2.
I may be misunderstanding you, but from what I read, you disagree with a company making money? You like the art style; Ian has to be paid... without making money, the game doesnt happen. No one will force you to spend, but saying you wont because the goal of a company is profit just seems a bit naive. I mean, they didn't make the game for free, out of the goodness of their hearts just so we can all play and enjoy. Obviously the goal is profit. People (not you) who are getting butthurt because people pay to play need to realize that pay to play is giving the company resources to continue improving the game. The free to players benefit the pay to players by giving them people to play with, people to buy their CE for crowns, sell things to etc.
This whole f2p vs p2p needs to end. We need each other, simple as that.
But you can simply get a friend to invite you on his higer tier runs. Or use the vial bug on emberlight to cross the barrier.
And here we go again....
@ Juances forgot about that one...and then people would run vana a alot to try to get some good gear from his tokens and then would pray for tier 3 treasure vault and their large amounts of trasure boxes.
the rich are a higher class of people in this game i just deal with it. they paid i didnt just remember if you take the time for anything then youll be good at it something P2p dont always have ( not tryin to offend) . Saying that im not perfect myself and have a long way to grow just be in harmony the other guy just jas some shiny hat
Pay to win!
Till you die!
Till the light dies in your eyes! d=
Seerusly though, I see paying players and free to play players on equal footings. The only difference is that a paying player will get stuff faster than a free to play player. Yes, the stuff from operation crimson hammer comes bound to you, but there is an unbinding shop for that.
@Paweau
Thats like saying that you can get through life on the quarters you find on the ground, and that "it doesn't matter if its viable or not, you're still not actually working for the money!". No one is about to constantly solo the next tier up in crappy gear until they are able to locate a piece of 4* gear just so they can be "truly F2P" or some crap like that. Its ridiculous, and frankly, it does matter that its not viable. All of the treasure drops that come out of the game barely add up to a fraction of the amount of gear that is crafted. I've heard of only a couple pieces of 5* gear coming from boxes, while I've seen dozens of skolvers and vog users. It barely makes a scratch on the gear market.
@perronius
I find that the philosophy "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" to be particularly true in this case. I understand that OOO needs to make money, but I don't understand why they need to make every update curved in such a way that directly makes them the most money possible at the cost of their playerbase... are they going under? I don't think they're starving to death, or that they're in that large of a financial crisis, but what do I know. The community is generally upset every update by these things. If they'd work on developing the actual game (meaning the randomly generated gates and non-costly bosses and even non-expansion missions) more often than the spin off adventures to gremlin land (meaning shadow lairs, and things like that), integrate things etc. then they'd end up pulling more people into the game. Look around haven a bit. There are only a couple hundred amazing players at T3 that partake in shadow lairs, and play regularly. Look at the games of lockdown that are going on- they're small. You can find the same few people everywhere. Look at all the people who have quit because of it, first at the unbinding update, then at the shadow lairs update, and finally at the crimson mission update.
CE costs around 6K when all is going well. Most T1 levels pay less than the price to play through them- it forces players away from the game when they can't play for as long as they want. The mission system did wonders for them, but the price of CE is still too high. Said price of CE is being brought up by things like the supply depot, and unbinding.
In other words, I don't disagree with them making money, I disagree with them making a pay2win game that so easily turns people away from it... most leave at the sight of the energy. If energy didn't play such an integral role in everything, more people would play, and OOO would make more money in the long run off of a much larger player base. Its kind of like running a TF2 server that gives crazy bonus mode with extra jump and rockets and bells and whistles to players that donate every month. Everyone who figures out you're doing it will just say "Wow... this is awful" and leave.
But that's just my philosophy on the whole thing. I'd love to hear yours.
The fact you can use ingame currency to instantly trade for purchasable currency (Crystal Energy) is what kept me from turning away when I started. I know I had to play longer to get gear, but you can play the game infinitely without spending a dime. Getting gear takes longer. It's a good way to do a free to play game.
Except it can't be sold, dropped or traded.
Oh well
You can still buy 5* gear at the AH for half a mil...
ANYWAYS!
I don't really see that much hate between P2P and F2P. I see more hate towards elitists (Mainly because, with two complete SL sets and an extra Maiden's Tear, I'm classified as one). I can't seem to criticize anyone in pubs for bad gear choices because then they just spit back "Pfft, Elitist..."
I mostly get passive-aggressive comments on occasion when I offer to give something to someone, but they essentially tell me that gifts are right up there with buying CE with real money as far as not having to work for your stuff goes. I'm never sure whether or not they're implying something of me when they do that. :/ I still try to be generous, though ... just not with those guys, anymore.
I don't like working with the extended logic. The: 'If you get something from someone who's paid for it it means it wasn't free', because by that logic, absolutely NOTHING is free, depending on how far you take it.
Actually this happened in LD, where I commented in team chat about how effective the attack-dash seemed to be, it being the first time I've played LD in a while, and the first time using the rocket hammer in it.
Someone I recognize from the forums replied to that statement with the classic 'Pay to win', to which I replied that it was actually gifted to me by a friend.
Again, 'Someone had to pay for it'.
I won't name this person, but he/she (I still don't know which) will recognize the name Psychodestroyer in this incident.
But actually, I still haven't paid anything for this game. The DLC was gifted to me by Ironskullkid, by more...indirect, I suppose, means.
It just ticks me off when people stereotype so bluntly. Stereotyping at best should just give you a base expectation for the persons attitude at the MOST, not allow you to make extremist judgements on them JUST BECAUSE you know the stereotype.
One's I've run into in the past 5 years or so:
-Communism=Bad
-Indians=Eat curry (as well as that mock prayer stuff yaddayadda...)
-Asians=Genius snobs, bad drivers, cannut speka deh engleesh... -_(\
-Teenagers=Drinks, drugs, hookers, partyguy, rebel etcetc...
-Arabs=Terrorist
-Koreans=Gonna smash you, kpop
-Maoris/Polynesians=Steal stuff, tendency to smash you
I don't use stereotypes on people, because that would be sad.
Generally, all I see people do is find out what stereotype fits you, then just use it to judge you. They don't care who you are, what you've seen, what you've done or where you've been; all they know is that based on their initial judgements, you fit into the 'stereotype-category', therefore the stereotype is you.
REALLY ticks me off...wherever it happens.
Psycho-Valkyrie,
Stereotypes are unavoidable because humans have a psychological disposition to conjure them up.
If we went up to a tiger without the stereotype that it is a vicious killer that could tear your limbs straight through, would we still be here?
While you say you don't use stereotypes, you in fact do. We all do. It's natural. Does it make us less of a person? No. Not necessarily, at least.
But these P2P and F2P stereotypes are so minute in apprehension.
These are a few of the perspectives I've seen in SK over the months. They've been under the tongues of many posts so I'll just address them now.
F2P Perspectives:
"Why would you spend money on a game? Those P2P players must be real low lives wasting their real money on an mmo."
"I don't believe an mmo should be milking the player-base and trying to drain people's money. They build the MMO so that you HAVE to pay with money. Why can't they build an mmo that is completely complete-able without paying money and maybe have a cash shop for costumes? All OOO cares about is that $$$$$."
“Those elitists won’t let me join their guild or join them in FSC because my gear is *4. They are probably P2P elitists which are more than jolly when they make F2P players feel like noobs.”
P2P Perspectives:
"Those F2P players are playing because WE let them. Without us buying CE what could they do? Nothing."
"It's a game I enjoy playing, so why not pay a little cash to enjoy it more? If I am paying rent and have a job, what's wrong with spending 20 dollars on something I like?"
“I support SK and I want them to make even more cool updates! Then those F2P criticize me for doing so, calling me a no-life elitist. (Which, btw, this conjures a negative stereotype of F2P players.)
These are some of the points people have made, or some of the implications people have made over the months. Different people, same implications. I believe that, in order to rid of the stereotypes, we must first understand the other point of view. Without that, we are just going in circles.
Although I was referring more toward stereotypes used on people, not everyday things.
I don't stereotype people, unless saying: 'this person is like the stereotypical [insert stereotype here]' after having actually spent enough time with said person to judge their attitude, counts, in which case I guess you could say I do.
Still, good point. Never thought about it that far really.
But the P2P/F2P feud I suppose you can call it...yeah, I agree with you on all points about that. I don't side on either argument about that, although I do tend to jump into the argument when they start pulling punches at each others P2P/F2P status.
I dont get why people say "OMFG DIS GUY BOUGHT CE WITH REAL MONEY! P2P PEOPLE SUX AND ARE LOZERS, THEY ARE SUCH A HXER I CANT EVEN GET MAH DUSKER SET!!!!!"
I am a F2P player. As a F2P player you need to have patience. I just do my runs and log off. I got my full 2* less than a week after starting. When I reached T2, I got my full 3* after about 2 or 3 weeks. (I quit this game for like 4-5 months after I got 4* ). Right now I have full 4* and a 5* armor piece. F2P players need to learn to be patient and then they will reach 4* and 5*. This F2P and P2P thing has been going on too long. What I did to make my self feel better and have the motivation to is that,when I get full 5* I know I did it legitly, and that the hardwork will pay off. WIthout P2P players SK would not be here. They support OOO to keep making the game better.
Wait, the rocket hammer and dark retribution lines can't be unbound? I did not realize that.
Thank you, that almost mirrors my POV on this situation.
Too many F2Pers think that stuff should come easy to them in the game, or complain about P2Pers who make it easier for themselves to progress.
I only became P2P after receiving the DLC gift from a friend. Before that, I was F2P.
Then there are SOME P2Pers who think F2Pers are noobs for not wanting to commit to the game by buying ce, or are too selffish/lazy to go out and work for some cash etcetc...
Geez, haters everywhere...
Swordsmen can get ASI very high, CTR very high, DMG very high without paying.
Gunners can get ASI ultra, CTR very high, DMG very high without paying.
Bombers can get CTR max and DMG max without paying.
If anyone hates on you because you're P2P then just laugh in his face.
Who says F2P swordsman/gunners can't have UV's?
Any F2P gunner/swordsman could possibly get max/max/max.
My point is, you don't need to pay a lot of money to roll for very high UVs in order to be successful. Therefore, this game is NOT pay-to-win, unlike what some F2P elitists think.
"In other words, I don't disagree with them making money, I disagree with them making a pay2win game that so easily turns people away from it... most leave at the sight of the energy. If energy didn't play such an integral role in everything, more people would play, and OOO would make more money in the long run off of a much larger player base."
Exactly! If you look at TF2, after you buy a $0.50 weapon, you are considered a "paid" player and can eventually get every singe weapon in the game without paying--or having to pay to unbind. And I haven't heard that that is going down because of lack of money being put into it. I've only been on a couple months, so I never say the game without unbinding fees and shadow lairs, and have only heard rumors of a time when crafting was cheaper, but I can still see how they are making it harder and harder to play F2P, or even limited P2P. Weapon slots, trinket slots, UVs, HoH weapons for energy, even the prestige missions that take 3*+ weapons, all requiring CE. It's the whole Laffer curve theory, or killing the goose that lays the golden egg. And doesn't TF2 have a larger base of players?
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/24/team-fortress-2-free-to-play-shift-inc...
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/06/24/team-fortress-2-overtakes-counter-stri...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/team-fortress-2-player-base-5x-larger-post-...
Friend got me a DLC though, dont know if that counts that im still F2P lol.
its mostly about grinding and using the market...
Just find what your good at, some people dont like grinding, so maybe they can sell uvs or some armor.
F2P can make money almsot as well as P2P players, its jsut that P2P has a boost from using real money.
if there was no P2P, CE prices would be a LOT higher than us, but P2P needs the F2P to buy their CE.
I stated my point in terrible sentences, but hopefully you can see what i mean. (._. )
Only thing that's different then and now is that it's possible to get to 4* and 5* gear without ever buying CE, even with crowns.
/e ollies outtie.
Just because I made that thread you HAD to bump this didn't you?
Are you kidding me?
That moment when someone, caught in the fervor of the savage pleasure in spiting his opponent in the (verbal) battlefield, thus ruins the good feast that others wished to partake of.
Oh wait. Related to SK?
That moment when some random guy keeps shield-bumping the Snarbolax away from the bell.
EDIT: For you, Whim.
That moment when I just wanna shove my poisonous survival knife (yes it's real) up someone's [redacted] for playing SK only just for the TF2 hat.
@Metagenic
Bombers can get CTR Max, DMG Max, and ASI Ultra without paying.
@Thread
Waiting for someone to say JEMPIRE.
"That moment when I just wanna shove my poisonous survival knife (yes it's real) up someone's [redacted] for playing SK only just for the TF2 hat."
/yes
Um, I think we are missing the important point that, Tweeter has a poisonous survival knife.
But,yeah it REALLY pisses me off when people do that. I told someone that they were a noob and probably didn't get past Snarby when they said SK was stupid.
Here's something that happens to me quite often, and is one reason I rarely play anything but Tier 3:
>Join a Tier 1 Party
>Party leader is an Apprentice
>They send me a friend request
>Two seconds later: "im just doing this for the tf2 hat"
>I close Spiral Knights
>I go eat a snack
>I come back and do a Tier 3 run instead
The moral of Dibs's lesson?
Remember to eat a snack, kids.
Though it is rather annoying to realize that millions of SK accounts and usernames are by people who played for a half hour, tops.
"Remember to eat a snack, kids."
Moreso of "remember to take breaks" rather than eat snacks.
I prefer naps and sleep instead. So I can actually explore the dark depths of my subconscious.
Stereotyping happens.