Agility Module
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 15:47
So, right now in Spiral Knights, we have trinkets for damage resistance, status resistance, and every aspect regarding weapons. However, what about speed movement? Now, I know people will say that the Mercurial Sets were designed for this purpose, but they don't seem to make much of an impact in-game. This trinket could help the set and make it go to Maximum! It would be the only way to get maximum speed, to mix the set with the trinkets. I say that there should be a trinket that increases speed of the player, at the expense of not being able to use another trinket for stats in other areas. This would work just like any other ability with Low and (possibly) Medium. It would become a Krogmo Machine module with a boot icon. Of course, this module could help armors that lower speed, for PvE, if you feel like it goes too slow for your pace. For PvP, in particular Lockdown. Let me explain:
Striker: This is, obviously, the fastest class in Lockdown. With the Speed Module, they'll go even faster, but who knows? It could be too fast for them, but if they decide to use it, it's at the expense of a ASI (excluding bombs), CTR, Damage, or Health trinket. This means that they would be speedy for capturing points, but they won't be the powerhouses that they are now (with the usual DA, GF, FF, BTT, etc.)
Guardian: This is the slowest class in Lockdown. With the Speed Module, they'll go faster, making them a bit more effective. Aside from being a powerhouse, they'll finally have some speed to counter the endless number of strikers. This class will benefit most because it is the slowest and will be able to become more effective in combat and defending points.
Recon: This, is the middle class in Lockdown in terms of speed. With the Speed Module, there could be a difference depending on its use. A Recon with their cloak up is more effective than anything. If they have the Speed Module equipped, they could go farther while cloaked and sneak up on unprepared foes.
-----------------------
For Weapons (added because of Gingermace's comment on bombs)
Sword: This will help people who want to be like ninjas and go in fast, strike fast, and get out. Of course, it wouldn't help swordsmen as much as others, but swordsmen have a full set of trinkets to pick from otherwise.
Gun: The speed boost could help gunners dodge, because they aren't set for close combat usually.
Bombs: This trinket would help bombers in particular, as mentioned by Gingermace. It will allow bombers to get in the action, bomb ready, and then get out as the bomb "goes off". It takes the place of ASI and could definitely help bombers, which usually suffer worst in Lockdown.
-----------------------------
The thought of limiting the amount of equipped Agility Modules has been discussed. For now, it's up to debate until people come to a conclusion or one seems more convincing/fair/right.
tl;dr: A speed boosting module from the krogmo machine
There would be Agility Module and Elite Agility Module.
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 16:43
#2
Thanks for the help, I'll add
Thanks for the help, I'll add that :)
I just thought, for other armors, that it's practically useless, as speed usually isn't an issue in PvE.
Edit, so I don't put another pointless-ish post: Gingermace, I added a little on that.
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 16:39
#3
Well, there is one less
Well, there is one less bombing trinket than the other ones (since bombs don't use ASI)... This would really help bombers.
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 16:55
#4
This sounds nice.
As long as
This sounds nice.
As long as you can only have 1 speed trinket, doesn't allow you to use another second trinket of any kind, and doesn't give a bigger boost than medium speed increase, this shouldn't be to OP.
+1
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 17:02
#5
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 17:12
#6
Bluebrawler, if you read the
Bluebrawler, if you read the very first paragraph, you'd know he already knows about those equips.
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 17:13
#7
+1
Good idea, but I think it'd be fine without being limited to one trinket. Others don't limit you, do they? But the best one should stay medium.
Rating: 85/100
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 17:15
#8
+2 < +6
For those who actually have a helmet and torso of either of the Mercurial sets, the movement speed is not significant enough to be too notable. I only use mine for Jelly King runs when I feel like taking a break from bombs and only using swords. The mobility increase exists but does not make a difference most of the time in close proximity. However, considering the buff is accumulative and not multiplicative, imagine the speed difference of having two Mercurial parts tripled; you would nearly be able to run circles around someone running in a straight line while keeping up at the same pace. Now imagine that even faster in Lockdown because someone has full Mercurial with two speed trinkets, since they can not prevent you from doing so if they are obtained the same way as the other gauntlets, even faster as a Striker. They would run faster than Alchemer bullets. Now imagine everyone runs that fast. Now imagine I am not making this face to you right now through your screen.
Make each trinket, at the most, give only +1 move speed. Otherwise everyone will soil themselves.
Mo, 04/16/2012 - 17:30
#9
I'll be updating the original post with suggestions people write
-Bluebrawler, read before writing please.
-At everyone else, I see ups and downs to limiting the amount of trinkets. I don't see too much trouble with not limiting it, since it takes up space from other trinkets (such as the popular health trinkets). Although, Luguiru, I see how people with Mercurial sets could abuse this. However, how many people do you actually see using Mercurial? I don't see all too many. It could bring popularity to the set however, but probably not as much as the wolver gears.
I laughed so hard at the pic, people around me started to stare.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 03:05
#10
How about "Dashing Module"
How about "Dashing Module" [Movement Speed Increase: Low] and "Elite Dashing Module" [Movement Speed Increase: Medium] available to be crafted from the Krogmo machine? That way if someone is really game they could aquire MSI Max if they got both MSI armour and helm and two MSI: Med trinkets. That would give about a 25% increase in movement speed.
I'm going to have a look at the speed of some weapons/bullets to see if this would be OP
Di, 04/17/2012 - 05:37
#11
IDEAS
insteed of a glove as the icon maybe a boot cause i dont see a glove effect your speed. and maybe make MSI /e cough MORE noticeble
RIP demotastic
Di, 04/17/2012 - 06:29
#12
Heheh,
Out run pulsar spam as a Guardian.
Not only am I famous, but I inspire Hipster...ness... Yeah.
~Tsu
Di, 04/17/2012 - 07:14
#13
@Hexzyle I don't believe it
@Hexzyle I don't believe it would be too OP because it takes up the trinket slots, and the movement speed increase isn't unimaginable at max. It'd just make things a bit more interesting. Also, numbers would be nice :) I don't have access to do that now.
@Demotaasd I didn't even think about the icon when writing out the idea. (/e is embarrassed) I put in the boot icon under the description now.
@Tsubasa I would love to see that... SO MUCH 0.0 If someone could do that, then we all win. Haha
Di, 04/17/2012 - 07:33
#14
About the name... XD
I kinda feel though that equipping a dashing module would make you look more handsome, lol.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 07:41
#15
Don't worry, the name isn't
Don't worry, the name isn't the most important part right now. It's still up to suggestions xD
Right now there is:
-Speed Module
-Dashing Module
-Agility Module
Di, 04/17/2012 - 14:21
#16
A dashing module for a
A dashing module for a fencer, then?
But seriously, I like this idea. +1.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 14:42
#17
Generally I like the idea,
Generally I like the idea, but why are you saying that Guardian is slower then Recon? As far as I know those classes has no bonuses nor penalties to speed so they movement speed is equal.
Also I'm not sure if Movement Speed bonuses work in PvP at all.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 16:00
#18
Hmmm
@Merethif I didn't actually mean the real "speed" they're going, but rather the speed of the action that they take part in. However, I did think, until recently, that Strikers moved faster, then Recon, then Guardian. I'll clear that up. Sorry, that's my mistake. Also, I don't know if it works in PvP. Unfortunately, I don't know of any tests with a Mercurial Set in PvP in the past. If it doesn't work for PvP, it could still be helpful in PvE.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 16:05
#19
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+
+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
I would have to say that they should only create one module for it though (5* variant) and you can only have a maximum bonus of low per module
Di, 04/17/2012 - 16:30
#20
It should be like any other
It should be like any other trinket. +1 to movement speed is only about a 4% increase, which means it's accumulative. This means at max you'll run about 25% faster. Just movement speed low means you can outrun pulsar and catalyzer bullets. 25% faster is not fast enough to make you outrun alchemers.
+1 if the trinket is treated like any other trinket. You can either run faster or have more health. It's a fair tradeoff. :/
Di, 04/17/2012 - 18:31
#21
-1
If mercurial can't have 2
-1
If mercurial can't have 2 stages of speed, a trinket shouldn't either. If mercurial had 2 stages of speed, it'd be a different story.
Unless you guys'd be cool with trinkets that have things like ASI very high for swords, and CTR very high for bombs. Then it'd be even.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 21:22
#22
@Fehzor I didn't mean to
@Fehzor I didn't mean to offend Mercurial users, rather, allow for people to use the Mercurial to it's fullest extent (Maximum speed). If two modules is really that much of a problem, then I can change it to one. However, Speed isn't an actual offensive statistic, meaning it's not going to change the amount of time/hits it will take to kill someone. However, it will allow them to dodge a bit easier. I see people are not liking the idea of two modules, and I'm most likely implementing that idea later, when I have more time to edit.
EDIT: Ok, for now, it's 2 modules. As stated below, I don't feel that to be very overpowered at the cost it'll come at anyways. You take away spots for more health or offense for this. The 24% max increase shouldn't cause too much of a disturbance. IT CAN CHANGE AT ANY TIME DEPENDING ON HOW THINGS PLAY OUT. Nothing is set.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 20:30
#23
I've already said how MS Max
I've already said how MS Max wouldn't be that overpowered, but people don't seem to want to pay attention to it. And Fehzor, the Mercurial Demo set has two buffs. Bomb Damage Low and MS Low. If anything, the Regular mercurial is ONLY SLIGHTLY underpowered, but it has a desirable defense: Piercing.
Why not make it an obtainable, but incredibly rare UV on armors? Would that be overpowered, too, because Mercurial only starts off with Movement Speed Low? No, because that armor already has it, meaning the degree of UV needed is less, therefore making Movement Speed max more obtainable.
But seriously. Why so against it? Do you realize that if people were to take these trinkets over heart pendants in PvP, that they would be giving up a large chunk of health JUST to move slightly faster? They'd die faster in the end, making them less of a credit to the team. Movement speed increase isn't terribly useful in PvE, either, so why bother shooting down something like this that would offer more variety?
Di, 04/17/2012 - 21:19
#24
Merc demo is better in almost
Merc demo is better in almost every possible way for PvE. Considering that lockdown is unbalanced for now, and needs serious rebalancing, mercurial mail is pointlessly outclassed. It needs speed med, but the devs will never give it that for the same reason they will never take this suggestion- they're scared of movement buffs. It was asked in arsenal when Nick was posting, and Nick explained that it was their first experiment in movement, and that the game "depended on those four little knights running about at the same speed".
I'm against it because I shouldn't have to buy trinket slots for the bonus that I made my armor for. And this isn't "helping" it, its replacing it. MSI maximum would be reachable, but undesirable compared to bonuses from other armor sets, like vog. Instead, MSI very high would be the norm for that genre of trinket.
Also keep in mind that each level of speed is ~4% of the norm. That means that MSI maximum would be the equivalent of 124% of the norm.
. What you're suggesting would be game changingly unbalanced...
The scout in TF2 travels at 133% of the speed of the other classes, and the medic in TF2 travels at 106.7%. This lets the medic keep up with the other classes, and be able to do his healing thing while essentially traveling with them as they moronically go about abusing him. Compare to mercurial recons running away from skolver strikers with broken striker boosts, attempting to take advantage of the striker before getting shredded by his flagpole sized toothpick. The scout on the other hand, can outrun everything, can dodge everything, and can deal meatshots in the blink of an eye. Compare to strikers retaining 1/4th of their speed boost after slowing down, greatly outspeeding every other class not bearing such trinkets.
In PvE, it's the difference between getting to kill enemies vs being stuck at the back making your party wait.
This begs the question- "Why do you support merc mail getting ASI med???"
2 levels of MSI are equal to 8%; 4 are equal to 16%. Thats half a scout speed, not 3/4ths of one. That isn't over powered, but it is noticeable. Most people would have you believe that the medic in TF2 is going normal speed- the same goes for mercurial users in spiral knights. It'd be the difference between a unique armor, and jelly 2.0. Not only would it increase the final form's usability, it'd offer lower tier'd knights, and people not wanting to invest, a chance to try out MSI, and judge for themselves. The loadouts from it at double would come in 2 flavors, mixed, and pure. Mixed would be at the same speed it is now, with just the hat or so. The knight could easily do what they do now, and outspeed their party a bit as well as maybe even dodge a bullet or two. Pure would be for people who want a strategy revolving around MSI.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 21:30
#25
This doesn't replace the
This doesn't replace the armor Fehzor. What I'm saying is that it well help those who want to achieve MSI max, achieve it. By having 2 mercurial parts on, you have a MSI med bonus. By using two MSI med trinkets, you could reach MSI max. It's the only way.
Also, it's the same with the Vog, Skolver, etc.. They have their boosts, but these boosts can easily be done with trinkets. It all just depends on the player's preference. Right now, let's say I use a Skolver/Vog combo with my Voltedge. I have the attributes of both to help my sword. Now, if I add an Elite Quick Strike Module and an Elite Slash Module, I can reach Very High on ASI and Damage in general. MSI really isn't much different or special. It's still an upgrade/ability that can be reached in a similar way.
It would be great if a SK dev or mod could come in and settle this part, but that's unfortunately unlikely.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 22:06
#26
Please go back and read the
Please go back and read the part about why we don't want MSI maximum to be reasonable, and about why such a bonus would outclass the armor almost completely.
Di, 04/17/2012 - 23:41
#27
An idea for testing the trinket
How about this:
We get the recipe for the 4* Dashing Module (with Low MSI) at the Krogmo Alchemy Machine. We don't get the 5* elite module (with medium MSI) yet.
If it turns out to be OP, we could either:
1) have the 4* recipe increased to 5* recipe cost (5* dashing module giving Low MSI)
or
2) simply remove the recipe from the Krogmo Alchemy Machine completely, and notify Dashing Module owners that their trinket is obsolete. (because limited edition equipment is not permitted in the game) The trinket becomes a collectors item and fetches high resale price. (like Zee cores and armours/shields with Sleep UVs...if they still exist)
This becomes a CE sink, which generates OOO more income, while people who bothered to buy and test the trinket will have a limited edition item that they can resell to collectors. Win-win situation.
However, after 2 months, if the trinket is not OP and does not become rediculously popular, but still increases the popularity of Mercurial Demo, then there will be reason to release the 5* elite module version at the Krogmo Alchemy Machine.
Alternatively, we could just have this put onto the test server...
Di, 04/17/2012 - 23:50
#28
What I am seeing here is the
What I am seeing here is the biggest issue being that MSI trinkets would outmode Mercurial armours.
In response we could simply cap the trinket at MSI: Low. (for either 4* or 5*, depending on what balancing is needed)
Then buff either the Armour or both parts of the Mercurial sets to MSI: Med so that we'd be able to achieve MSI:Ultra/Max.
So, 04/22/2012 - 11:21
#29
@Fehzor Sorry about that, I
@Fehzor Sorry about that, I shouldn't have been on the forums at 1:30 AM. I understand the problem, as Mercurial has always been the way to get MSI. What would you think of having on a 5* that gives MSI low? I'm trying to make this so that the community all likes it, which is kinda annoying/hard to do, even if it's completely worth it. I agree with Hexzyle that it could all be solved by:
A) Testing only a 4* first to see what happens
B) To make the Mercurial Set into Med, so that 2 MSI low trinkets could bring it to max (being the only way to achieve it).
-Bump
Sa, 04/28/2012 - 13:55
#30
BA-BUMP!
-_-
Sa, 04/28/2012 - 16:13
#31
nice.
i think its a nice idea, hope others support it.
It could work for PVE for those slow armor sets. But it would be a small bonus and just one trinket in my opinion, so the balance wouldn't break. Because if there were 1 star-5 star ranked modules, that would break the balance of both games. So just one trinket and one boost related to speed.