New PVP: Storm the Fortress.
Sáb, 04/21/2012 - 22:38
So, yeah. Just a random idea I thought of some time ago that I don't recall ever posting on the forums.
Storm The Fotress is basically just one team attacking a defending team. Yes, I know, extremely unorigional.
Attackers
-------------
The attackers are supposed to try to invade and break into a fortress, and do something that I haven't actually really thought of yet. Maybe cap an LD control point or something. Anyway, they'd have special units and buffs to help them break in, but also weaknesses.
Units:
Attackers: Just people who assault the fortress. They have an damage increase. Weakness not yet thought of.
Disablers: Knights we can disable traps set by the defending team. More on that later. A bit quicker speed than others, but low health.
Siege Men: Knights with those personal rocket launchers rom OCH. They can launch rockets over the fortress walls and do whatever to the area inside the fort. Have a speed decrease, but deal heavy damage.
Defenders
--------------
The defenders have to protect their fortress and prevent the attackers from achieving their goal.
Units:
Defenders: Knights who protect the fortress. They cannot leave the fortress. They have a health bonus, and a Guardian shield. Slight speed decrease.
Trappers: Knights who can sneak outside the fortress and lay a limited amount of various traps (blocks, exploding blocks, mines, spike traps, status panels, etc). They have a slight invisibility (think chromalisk invisible). Slight speed increase. Low health.
Turret Men: Knights who can arm controllable Mecha Turrets and shoot enemies. Weakness pending.
Hunters: Knights who can sneak outside the fortress and harass the enemy. Low damage, fast attack speed.
Gameplay
--------------
The attackers have to break into the defenders' fortress and achieve some sort of goal.
The side (attacker or defender) you are on is chosen randomly when you join the game. Since the defenders have the upperhand (as far as I can tell. Correct me if I'm wrong), the attackers have 2 or 3 extra men then they do.
The game begins with the defenders inside their fortress and the attackers in a camp some distance away from the fortress. They pick their class from those things that are also inside LD lockerrooms, and attack. The defenders do the same, but defend.
The fortress has two layers, ground level and battlement. Defenders (the class, not side) with guns can shoot attacking Knights, while turret men can shoot them using controllable mecha turrets.
There are two entry points into the fortress, closed by gates. The attackers have to attack and break down the gates in order to gain entry. However, traps may impede their doing so.
In order to let out trappers and hunters, the gates must open. As they come out, the attackers, if they're in the correct place during the correct moment, can enter the fortress.
The trappers have their choice of several different traps to set. I am still wondering how they should do this. Anyway, they have a limited supply of trap, which is only replenished is an enemy disabler disables their traps (Ex: One disabled spike trap = one new spike trap for the trapper). They aren't allowed to set traps inside the fortress. Also, their traps can affect their own allies (to keep hunters from exploiting situations such as attacking an enemy frozen on a freeze trap, when they can just run across without getting frozen), so everyone has to be careful where they step. I'm also still thinking about how the disablers should disable the traps. They could always destroy blocks with weapons, but the other stuff... ???
The turret men have to find a Mecha Turret on the battlement and gain control of it. When they do, an aiming thing appears, and the view in front of the turret man becomes visible. In order to shoot, they aim and click their attack button. They can shoot one shot every 5 seconds, and deal elemental/normal damage. Their range is depicted by a large red circle. Any area beyond the perimeter is out of range. The same goes for any Guardian on the battlements, except they have to use normal guns, and they have a much shorter range circle. They'd be using sniper mode, I suppose. The Defenders don't have to engage sniper mode, though. In order to engage it, you have to right click. There'd be a thing like what lets you use the auction house for you to use sniper mode.
The siege men have to get withing striking distance of the fortress before they can attack the fortress. Other than that, they can launch their rockets for regular battle against trappers and hunters, although the shots will be random seeing how they can't aim yet. When they get within striking distance of the fortress (determined by a red circle around the fortress. Pass the circle and you're in) They recieve a full ariel view of the area within the circle. They can still move around, but now that can aim and attack the fortress. The same aiming thing that the turret men get appears, and they can use that to aim and fire a rocket to anywhere withing the circle.
The game ends aftera max time of... 10 minutes? 5? Anyway, if the time is up and the attackers have not achieved their goal (destroying a battl epod), the defenders win. But if the attackers achieved their goal before time runs out, they win.
I know. Awfully messy and unorganized, isn't it?
I think there's some bit more that I'm forgetting, though. I'll post more later once I remember. Feel free to post opinions, comments, suggestions, and the what not.
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 08:09
#2
Now. Ideas for the thread
I'd much rather a "capture" or "destroy" a certain objective inside the castle rather than just blowing the entire castle up. If you've played Unreal Tournament you'll know what I'm thinking.
Perhaps have destructable terrain on the way to the fortress, or a gatehouse of some sort. Drawbridges are always fun. Or just a plain "bash the big door down to get inside"
And ideas for trap setters, coz this is a big topic in balancing issues:
TRAP SETTERS
Indestructable Blocks:
Will probably have to be a no-no. It's very difficult to add these without causing abuses. Trapping teammates, trapping enemies for the entire match, blocking off entire routes or making the game unwinnable are some situations.
Timed Explosives and Blast Boxes
Are probably going to be the most useful blocks in a trap-setters aresenal. With Timed Explosives he can obstruct the enemy team temporariy and with a large amount of Blast Boxes can do damage to them indirectly.
Team-mates should probably be immune to this though
Destructable Blocks
Can serve as an irritating obstruction to those who just want to get to the enemy. Chopping through 4 layers of destructable blocks takes time, and especially so with Stone Blocks.
Floor Traps
This is another hard-to-implement idea. A trapper should only be allowed to place a very limited amount of these, it should probably be around 3x3 big, and cannot be placed adjacent to another floor trap (to prevent people from creating large rows of them making the section of the level virtually impassable)
A trapper would have to return to the supply room to gather more "trap pills". (being able to carry only 3 of each, and having a hard limit on the total placeable, perhaps a hard limit regardless of the amount of trappers in the level. So in a 4v4 game, perhaps there could be 20 explosives placed, (timed counts as 3) 40 destructable (stone counts as 3), and 3 floor traps. The pills would not respawn in the respawn room until the blocks/traps/trap pills on the floor are removed.
THIEF / DETRAPPER / DISARMER:
Ghost Block
in a pill, to be able to clear out stone blocks and timed explosives with ease.
They would also have the shield ability to disable a floor trap, which would disappear and another floor trap pill would spawn for the trapper.
Regarding floor trap mechanics, it obviously would be an interval trap. However, in levels, floor traps are pre-placed. This makes it difficult to just "shove something onto the level while people are playing it".
What we could have is, on tier 1, if anyone has seen those "closed over" traps in some rooms and danger rooms, that is what we could have in this minigame. Using a floor trap pill while standing on a closed over floor trap would open the doors and activate the trap.
TURRET MEN
Could probably be renamed to mechanics, since manning a turret all day long sounds boring. Perhaps they could be able to place things just like the trapper. I know this is starting to sound like one team building a level and the other team trying to fight their way through it, but doesn't that sound AWESOME?
Anyway, they should have the following pills:
Mecha Knight
We all know this one, we know they're fairly useless, but they're also fairly annoying. Chuck a few of these out and irritate your attackers!
Mecha Turret
Those nifty lazer-beam turrets that zap through enemies and knock them halfway across the level. I think they're pretty cool, and if you're not expecting it you'll end up having a beam of hot blue plasma punching through your abdominal organs.
They're relatively useless in melee combat though due to their slow turning, but mix them up with some mecha knights and you're good to go!
And then on top of these two abilities, they should be able to man turrets. They should fire those huge bullets that Battlepods and Gremlin Scorchers shoot, just to annoy people, or do those sweet beam-blast attacks that Retrodes do at short intervals.
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 07:53
#3
How about the background?
I love this idea because it has some teamwork.. but It's background scenes??
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 08:13
#4
@Aplauses
Rampart.
Or if OOO feels like it, something new.
Or if it gets big enough, all the themes that Lockdown has.
Oh, by the way,
/thread hijack
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 10:01
#5
Woot! Thanks for the feedback
Woot! Thanks for the feedback guys.
@Hex
Awesome suggestions! Have a bit of feedback for them.
Yeah, you're probably right. Traps shouldn't damage allies. Well, maybe the trap panels can? YOu said they'd already be laid out for the game, so technically no team set them. Those should do damage to both teams.
Indestructable blocks could be in the game, actually, if you could use ghost boxes against them. And you said that the traps would have a cooldown time, so it'd be almost impossible to trap up an enemy in those blocks. Unless they were AFKing or something along those lines. But there should still be some kind of counter for it.
I was thinking of making the traper setters semi-invisible, because I don't want this to become too much like LD. But I suppose you're correct. Unless the background was something resembling Frostbite, they'd be easily spotted.
I wasn't thinking of putting traps in the fortress itself because of the problem with traps damaging allies. People would end up dying in their own fortress like that. But if traps don't damage allies, then maybe this could be added. But of course, it it was, attackers could be facing a wall of rocket launchers when they break down the door. XP
Do you also think that brambles would be a good trap? The defenders could surround the fortress with brambles. Technically, it'd still be passable, but the attackers would take some damage.
@aplauses
Truthfully, when I thought of this, I had the vision of a fortress sitting in the middle of a forest, like the Gloaming Wildwoods. That was the only background I'd thought of.
Anyway, thought of some new ideas for this.
MONSTERS
Not to sure how to go about this. Either monsters appropiate to the background (Ex: Forest = wolvers) are already found wandering around the place, or monster cages can be found. Anyway, the monsters can either attack the attackers or the defenders. I guess they'd sort of be their own faction. Maybe there could be some kind of thing that somehow allies the monsters for you're side?...
DEFENDERS
ATM, the defenders seem to OP. I either need to nerf them down or buff the attackers up. Even if the attackers do have 2 extra men. Ideas?
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 11:18
#6
@Lordofnecromancers
WAAAAALL OOOF TEXT!
"Yeah, you're probably right. Traps shouldn't damage allies. Well, maybe the trap panels can? YOu said they'd already be laid out for the game, so technically no team set them. Those should do damage to both teams."
Although they are already laid out, they are inactive, and are merely there as a tool for trappers. But I guess perhaps a damage could be added for what you said before, stopping people from just standing in traps and shooting the crap out of passer-bys.
"Indestructable blocks could be in the game, actually, if you could use ghost boxes against them. And you said that the traps would have a cooldown time, so it'd be almost impossible to trap up an enemy in those blocks. Unless they were AFKing or something along those lines. But there should still be some kind of counter for it.
Maybe, but there are countless exploits that we won't be able to think of (and neither will the Devs) that players will find. Then we'll need to go through 15 bug updates. Sure, there's ghost blocks, but what if you aren't a detrapper when you get stuck inside one? Or if you get trapped by your own team? The block would be there the entire match, and if the trapper makes a mistake in placing one, he can't take it back.
"I was thinking of making the traper setters semi-invisible, because I don't want this to become too much like LD. But I suppose you're correct. Unless the background was something resembling Frostbite, they'd be easily spotted."
It's PvP with an objectives system and classes. It already is just a variation of LD (Actually, it's resembling TF2 just like LD is, and there's nothing wrong with that)
"I wasn't thinking of putting traps in the fortress itself because of the problem with traps damaging allies. People would end up dying in their own fortress like that. But if traps don't damage allies, then maybe this could be added. But of course, it it was, attackers could be facing a wall of rocket launchers when they break down the door. XP
I don't mean damaging traps in the fortress, just blocks. Such as making the entrance to the castle filled with explosive blocks or something just to be obstructive XD
But rocket launchers, thanks for reminding me of them. Of course, all map-traps (floor traps, rocket traps, anything that is built into the map instead of being placed like blocks) should already be there (just inactive) and placed in such a manner not to be exploitable.
For instance. There is only one rocket trap in the level and it's aiming across the last walkway to the CP. Trappers have to face a decision whether to activate this trap or the spikes outside the walls.
There wouldn't be like a set of 15 rocket turrets aiming directly out the door when the attackers knock it down, nor would rocket turrets be placeable (or just not placeable in large numbers. Actually not placeable at all sounds good seeing as they are part of the map, are indestructable and have to have a direction set. All other abilities activated from pills don't have a direction)
Of course, there would be many more trap slots than this, to provide trappers with a wider selection and giving them a bit more creativity when constructing obstacles.
"Do you also think that brambles would be a good trap?"
Hmmm possibly, as long as there was a way to get around them without taking damage, even if it means going the long way around. Of course these spots could be plugged with traps/blocks by trappers XD
""MONSTERS""
Most likely not. Rock jellies are a pain in lockdown, although I'm not sure if they drop crowns or not. Monsters would be out-of-place and wouldn't serve any real purpose to attacking/defending the fort. They'd be more of a distraction than anything useful.
"ATM, the defenders seem to OP. I either need to nerf them down or buff the attackers up. Even if the attackers do have 2 extra men. Ideas?"
Not necissarily true. The defenders have to stop the attackers from getting to point A. In T3 that would be fairly easy as traps and weapons deal quite the bit of damage.
However in T1, traps to crap all (except freezelocking traps) and so do weapons.
A solution is PvP only gear: Default gear given to everyone who participates. (This has been suggested for lockdown as well)
Now, I reckon the Hunter class should be removed. The attackers have 3 classes, the Defenders should have 3 as well. (cmon, don't make this too complex) If we compare this to lockdown, Attackers would be the Strikers (offense), Disablers are the Recons, and Seige Men are the Defenders (defensive offense - move/fire slowly but hit hard). Defenders would be the Guardians, Trappers would be the recon and Turret men are the Strikers (offensive defense - set up structures that deal damage to the enemy)
The general idea would be for Attackers to move quickly through the fortress, and wipe out player resistance (combats the enemy Defenders, but is harassed by both Trappers and Turret Men)
Detrappers to get rid of traps (counters enemy Trappers, but can be hit by mecha turrets and defenders)
Seige men to clear out enemy machinery and unlucky players who get in the way. (Counters enemy Turret Men, but is hindered by traps and fast-thinking defenders)
Defenders are mobile and move to where they're needed in the fort, be it to smack down that Attacker almost at the point, get rid of detrappers messing with the defenses, or to eliminate that Seige man killing everyone
Trappers are for whittling down enemy health and slowing their progress
Turret Men are for doing the same but with moving obstacles (bullets, monsters, lasers)
Now, for each classes combat bonuses...
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 13:24
#7
Didnt someone already post
Didnt someone already post this idea?
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 13:51
#8
SPIRAL FORTRESS 2
do want
SPIRAL FORTRESS 2
do want
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 14:58
#9
+1
i will pick 4 mecha
+1
i will pick 4 mecha knights surrounding me than a trollaris any day, and twice on sunday
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 16:26
#10
"Didnt someone already post
"Didnt someone already post this idea?"
As far as I can tell, no.
@Hex
More like blocks of text.
It'd be intesting to surround the entire fortess in brambles. Then, in order to get to the fortress, you have to get damaged running through. Unless you can destroy the brambles?...
The hunter class... Well, I guess since the defenders already have turrets and the whatnot, they can still attack the area outside the base without infantry.
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 17:41
#11
I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD PAY TO PLAY THIS.
no really bro. i do. (but i wont xD)
just with that, you know u have a really good idea.
TEAMWORK, OBJECTIVES, STRATEGIES! all in one PvP!
but how big is this map gonna be???
is the most of the fight gonna be centered around the middle of the map in front of fort?
when you enter the fort, are you gonna get the same view of 2nd and 4th stage of Vanaduke throneroom? (tht'll be epic)
all in all. i like this idea SOOO much. good job :D
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 18:18
#12
YAYZ! MORE POSITIVE FEEDBACK! :D
The map would be... very big. Very hairy scary big. But not too big.
The fortress itself would be about the size of the Advanced training hall (okay, that's probably too big). So the entire map would be scary.
Most of the fight would be centered around the middle of the map by the fort, yeah. The main objective is to break into the fort and do something, right? So it makes sense most everyone would be there.
And when you enter the fort?... well, I haven't really thought about that. :/ There's 3 possibilities.
1) Normal view, like in LD.
2) Vava mode, like you said.
3)You-see-through-your-character's-eyes view. Which would be absolutely horrible and not fit at all for a game like SK. So more like 2 possiblities. This ione doesn't count.
The problem is that I thought of a new idea, where when the attackers break into the fortress, they can exchange gun fire with guys on the battlements. Since ground level and battlements level are two completely different hieghts, the only way I can think of making it happen is Choice #3. Then you could move an aiming thing around with the mouse and snipe them off the battlements, and vice versa. But it'd be absoutely horrible if you didn't have a gun, or you didn't care about guys on the battlements. So...?
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 18:46
#13
This seems it'd have too much
This seems it'd have too much strategy involved, but I kind of like that, actually. One thing I'm concerned about is the hell lot of balancing the Devs would have to go through not to make the game one-sided. It seems it has a lot of potential though. I particularly like the Trappers and Hunters units =p
Is it on purpose that the game revolves around Attackers at all times? Because, basically, we would have the 7 classes facing each other like this:
Defenders X Attackers (Defenders damage the Attackers to prevent them from destroying their Fortress)
Trappers X Disablers (Disablers focus on Trappers' traps that damage the Attackers)
Siege Men X Turret Men (Siege men damage the Turret Men who damage the Attackers)
Hunters (Basically the same as Defenders, but they attack all units instead of only Attackers)
I guess Attackers would need a bit more than only a damage increase to deal with that much firepower pointed at them. Or at least a decent respawn rate.
And I agree with Hexzyle:
"I'd much rather "capture" or "destroy" a certain objective inside the castle rather than just blowing the entire castle up."
Overall +1
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 19:10
#14
Yay! New comment!
Yeah. It's hecka unbalanced. Still needs a lot more thought.
"This seems it'd have too much strategy involved, but I kind of like that, actually. "
That's a good thing. BN is mostly bomb spam, LD is just "Team with most toockpick wolvers = default win." None of them require much strategy now that players have figured out ways to avoid thinking.
"(Siege men damage the Turret Men who damage the Attackers)"
Well, the turret men can technically just blow the crap out of anyone they want, not just attackers. Same goes for the trappers. Their traps can trap all of the enemy. But it does seem to revolve around the Attackers a lot.
Lemme think... Would this work?
Attackers: Guys who assault the fortress. They have a high damage bonus, low speed bonus, and ASI medium.
Something along those lines. Or is that too OP?
As for the objective, it could be to cap a Lockdown control point, or capture a flag, or destroy a Battlepod that fortunately spawns nothing so the defenders won't have even more power. Ideas?
If you have to destroy something out in the open of the fortress, the siegemen would become more important. They could try to destroy it from the outside. That would help balance things a bit, I think. Thoughts?
Ideas?
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 19:43
#15
"now that players have
"now that players have figured out ways to avoid thinking"
lol I loved that.
Yep, I think something along those lines would work better, but Defenders might have a hard time facing that kind of foe directly.
Destroying anything similar to a Battlepod, as an objective, would certainly be exciting.
Siege Men would be more of a threat if they could fire homing missiles from outside the fortress and deal heavy damage to the Battlepod, but I guess Hunters or Turret Men would have to be buffed too, in order to defend their fortress from the outside (while Defenders do that from the inside).
Mié, 04/25/2012 - 01:39
#16
RE:, and more ideas.
@Lordofnecromancers
"It'd be intesting to surround the entire fortess in brambles. Then, in order to get to the fortress, you have to get damaged running through. Unless you can destroy the brambles?..."
I'm thinking the brambles should probably be pre-placed, since I can't really think of a good way to set them up. There shouldn't be a way to disable them, they'll just be there to herd the attackers to certain choke points.
"The hunter class... Well, I guess since the defenders already have turrets and the whatnot, they can still attack the area outside the base without infantry
Allow Turret Men and Trappers to use weapons, that way when they're running about doing their thing they can beat up attackers that they see. A hunter class seems too on the offensive for a defensive team.
Plus if the enemies are going to be in the fortress for most the time (due to its size) then a defender will be sufficient.
"The problem is that I thought of a new idea, where when the attackers break into the fortress, they can exchange gun fire with guys on the battlements"
No, this is the Seige Men's job. ramparts are there to make guns, bombs and sword use difficult for the attacking team.
However since the seige men's weapons are bombardment, that's their focus.
"Well, the turret men can technically just blow the crap out of anyone they want, not just attackers. Same goes for the trappers. Their traps can trap all of the enemy. But it does seem to revolve around the Attackers a lot."
Yeah, exactly. There won't be any set scissor-paper-rock set-up. Attackers/Defenders (soldiers/pyro) are the melee units, Seige/Turret Men (demoman/heavy) are the ranged, and Trappers/Detrappers (spy/engineer) are the specialists.
"Attackers: Guys who assault the fortress. They have a high damage bonus, low speed bonus, and ASI medium.
Something along those lines. Or is that too OP?
"
As long as the defenders get a similar set up, should be fine. I don't think any of the other classes need weapon bonuses, as they're roles focus around thier special skills rather than their swords/guns/bombs.
"As for the objective, it could be to cap a Lockdown control point, or capture a flag, or destroy a Battlepod that fortunately spawns nothing so the defenders won't have even more power. Ideas?"
BATTLEPOD, YES! It's like a "core" or the power generater in Unreal Tournament 2004 > Onslaught. Should not be able to heal, and has a health bar displayed at the top of everyone's screen!
"If you have to destroy something out in the open of the fortress, the siegemen would become more important. They could try to destroy it from the outside. That would help balance things a bit, I think. Thoughts?"
Eeeh, probably not. But being the highest damage (should be dealing like, 600-1200 on each bombardment missile shot, or given a very large blast radius) output unit, although the slowest, once a seige man gets to the central pod then he can start dishing out some real punishment to it. The central pod should have a roof over it so he can't just shoot it from the other side of the level.
@Blue-Phaze
"Defenders X Attackers (Defenders damage the Attackers to prevent them from destroying their Fortress)
Trappers X Disablers (Disablers focus on Trappers' traps that damage the Attackers)
Siege Men X Turret Men (Siege men damage the Turret Men who damage the Attackers)
Hunters (Basically the same as Defenders, but they attack all units instead of only Attackers)"
I'm thinking more along the lines of:
Defenders > Infantry in melee (They'll have a direct advantage face to face with Seige Men and Detrappers but they'll have more of a problem with Attackers due to their buffs)
Attackers > Infantry in melee (They'll have a direct advantage face to face with Turret Men and Trappers but they'll have more of a problem with Defenders due to thier buffs)
Trappers > Infantry with traps (Aren't used to combat any one class but have to keep away from pesky Detrappers.)
Detrappers > Trappers (specialised role, although they can do a bit of face-smacking with turret men in melee but will get pummeled by Defenders)
Turret Men > Infantry ranged (Aren't used to combat any one class but will have to take out Seige men before themselves get taken out)
Seige Men > Mechanical Units and Infantry ranged (Aren't used to combat any one class but will have a direct advantage on the Turret Men's buildable units)
So each class will be different effectiveness when they're face to face with the enemy or on the other side of the level, any one class can beat another provided they are in the right circumstance. A Seige Man could blow up a defender from a distance but as soon as that defender gets close with his smacky-stick, that seige man is screwed.
If everyone can carry weapons, hunters aren't really needed. You just send a Turret Man out into the battlefield to beat up people.
Ok, regarding weapons, this is what I've thought up. You are given custom gear to battle with, instead of your normal equipment. Everyone gets the same armour (unless you can think up things for defence):
All these weapons are going to be in relation to 2* items:
DEFENDERS
1. Heavy Sword: A team-coloured Heavy Hatchet for defenders who love big swords. The damage would be buffed to match the troika.
2. Normal Sword: A team-coloured Calibur for the swordies who prefer it.
3. Normal Gun: A blaster for picking off people when not in combat directly
Attackers should have a similar set up.
ATTACKERS
1. Speed Sword: Be that a Spur or a cutter, hasn't been decided.
2. Normal Sword: A calibur just like the Defender
3. Norbal Gun: A blaster just like the Defender
TRAPPERS
In addition to the four trap pills they can carry:
1. Fix-Stick: A team coloured Wrench-Wand for melee.
2. Mines: Basically just Deconstructors. (bomb) Should have a relatively small radius (firecracker/cold snap) but charge quicker than the Blast Bomb.
3. Haze Bomb: To cause stun and slow enemies down, especially when moving through traps
DETRAPPERS
In additon to the ghost block pill they can carry:
1. Break-Stick: A team coloured Thwack Hammer for melee. It would be a reskinned Calibur.
2. Explosive Charges: Deconstructors again.
3. Static Capacitor: Which would have the added benefit of disabling floor/rocket traps within its radius
SEIGE-MEN
1. Mortar: Similar to the Mortafires attack just either more rapid, higher damage, or larger blast radius (or a combination of these)
2. Rocket: Using the Mortar Gun, fires a direct rocket like a rocket puppy, either faster or heat-seaking
3. Sledge Hammer: Appearance similar to the 1 star OCH Hammer but functions like a troika.
TURRET-MEN
In additon to his utility pills:
1. Command Module: attacking with this weapon while near a turret would cause the turret to fire in the direction the turret-man was facing, like the engineer's remote control thingy (ARGH NEED HELP THINKING HOW TO WORK THIS)
2. Alchemer: As a sidearm. Cryotech Alchemer would be great for halting advances.
3. Speed Sword: A cutter or another similar fast sword.
Dom, 04/22/2012 - 23:37
#17
I would build the level for
I would build the level for you guys if I could get the level editor to work :(
Lun, 04/23/2012 - 00:11
#18
@Atgatg
Someone posted this, and I actually was thinking the same thing. However, these two threads are turning out to be quite different.
@Hexzyle, Lordofnecromancers
I may or may not get around to reading Hexzyle's text walls completely, but what I have read seems alright I guess. >_>
Naturally, this PvP mode would take a lot of extra programming, so I don't know if we should look forward to something like this anytime soon, but like I said, its concepts do seem reasonable.
Lun, 04/23/2012 - 00:24
#19
I also thought of a battlepod
I also thought of a battlepod when I first read the thread. Or a giant crystal. (depending if you want it to be X amount of damage or X amount of hits).
Monsters I am unsure about, but maybe Steve's? (read: mechaknight)
Hexyle seems to have covered most of the other points I would have raised.
@Hexyle Hope you get that level editor working! It would be great for fleshing out other suggestions as well (new boss levels, missions etc.)
Lun, 04/23/2012 - 12:16
#20
@Milkman
Attempting to open the level editor with command line just returns a java line error, which I have no clue what it means. Spiral-Spy has left Spiral Knights so I doubt he can offer any assistance.
Lun, 04/23/2012 - 19:38
#21
WHEE!
Battlepod it is then.
Now, if there are to be several different levels, there should be special traps and counter-traps related to the level.
Let's start with levels relating to boss levels.
GW map:
traps: Brambles (they could either be there already or trappers could 'plant' brambles 'seeds' and they grow into brambles), bushes.
counter-traps: Weedwackers/weed spray (special weapons to destroy brambles/bushes)
Jelly palace map:
Traps: Spike traps
Counter traps: ???
IMF map:
Traps: Shock panels, rocket launchers.
Counter traps: Rubbber Tarp (covers panel), switch wall (pops up wall in front of launcher)
FSC map:
Traps: Spiked wheel launchers, shadowfire.
Counter traps: Water globes, statues (to block wheel launchers)
Stuff like that, you know?
Lun, 04/23/2012 - 20:59
#22
@Lordofnecromancers
Errr. This idea is already really complex. Can we simplify it down a bit by not having a large variation of traps?
Spike/Shock/Fire/Freeze traps on their appropriate levels and Rocket launchers on a select few levels would probably be sufficient.
We don't want EVERYONE to be a trapper. Already 80% of the thread is about them XD
Can someone give feedback on each classes weapons at the bottom of this comment?
Mar, 04/24/2012 - 15:12
#23
maybe = and -1
+2 is go for how it epic
-1 go for everyone want traps and add monster and non player knight who can be tame ( not the knights the monster)
Mar, 04/24/2012 - 20:53
#24
DEFENDERS
1. Heavy Sword: A
DEFENDERS
1. Heavy Sword: A team-coloured Heavy Hatchet for defenders who love big swords.
2. Normal Sword: A team-coloured Calibur for the swordies who prefer it.
3. Normal Gun: A blaster for picking off people when not in combat directly
Attackers should have a similar set up.
Hachet should be a troika. If it was a heavy hatchet, it'd be 1*, 2*, 2*. And for Attackers, it should be a faster sword, like a spur.
TRAPPERS
In addition to the four trap pills they can carry:
1. Fix-Stick: A team coloured Wrench-Wand for melee.
2. Mines: Basically just Deconstructors (bomb)
3. Stagger Storm: Or one of the smaller variants of it
No comment here.
DETRAPPERS
In additon to the ghost block pill they can carry:
1. Break-Stick: A team coloured Thwack Hammer for melee
2. Explosive Charges: Deconstructors again.
3. Volcaic Tempest: Which would have the added benefit of disabling floor/rocket traps within their radius
Nice. Althought the 5* Volcaic Tempest seems ouf place with all the other 2* stuff.
SEIGE-MEN
1. Mortar: Similar to the Mortafires attack just either more rapid, higher damage, or larger blast radius (or a combination of these)
2. Rocket: Using the Mortar Gun, fires a direct rocket like a rocket puppy, either faster or heat-seaking
3. I can't think of whether to have a gun or a sword here. Ideas?
A sword of some kind. A weak one, since they already got super powerful rocket launchers. Maybe a Cutter?
TURRET-MEN
In additon to his utility pills:
1. Command Module: attacking with this weapon while near a turret would cause the turret to fire in the direction the turret-man was facing, like the engineer's remote control thingy (ARGH NEED HELP THINKING HOW TO WORK THIS)
2. Alchemer: As a sidearm
3. Can't think of whether to have a sword ora bomb here. Ideas?
A weak sword of melee. Maybe a Cutter (again)?
In total, pretty nice! If this game was split into tiers, then the default weapons should upgrade or degrade (EX: T1 Heavy Hatchet. T2 Troika or 3* Troika. T3 4* or 5* Troika)
Mié, 04/25/2012 - 16:29
#25
@Lordofnecromancers
Hachet should be a troika. If it was a heavy hatchet, it'd be 1*, 2*, 2*. And for Attackers, it should be a faster sword, like a spur."
I was kind of talking about the appearance. But yes, it would have the statistics of a troika. I just think a hatchet would look good recoloured in PvP colours. Faster weapon for attackers? I guess that's alright, seeing as they gotta move fast to the point. I was trying not to block player styles but ok. Perhaps the heavy sword can be given to another class on the attacking team so that heavy-sword users will have something to play with.
"Nice. Althought the 5* Volcaic Tempest seems ouf place with all the other 2* stuff."
Again, I was meaning the static capacitor, i just couldnt remember the name for it.
"A sword of some kind. A weak one, since they already got super powerful rocket launchers. Maybe a Cutter?"
If you're going to give the attackers a fast/dash weapon (spur) then I think that these big guys should have a heavy sword. It wouldn't be as powerful as the defender's sword; all classes apart from the attacker and defender classes should have a relatively large melee/gun damage penalty.
"A weak sword of melee. Maybe a Cutter (again)?"
Sounds good, since the defenders already have the heavy sword. So now we got the defender with a heavy sword, attacker with a light sword, Seige man with a heavy sword and turret men with a light sword. 1 of each sword type for each team.
If this seems like too little weapons, a fourth slot could be added. However that's getting a little too complex at the moment. If further feedback is given then it should be considered.
I've updated post #16 to contain all the weapon updates I've just mentioned..
Jue, 04/26/2012 - 16:51
#26
Blimp
This is a bump. But in order to make it not seem like a bump, I have to post something meaningful. Besides, I can't let this thread die until Luigiru (or however you spell his/her name) posts his/her famous criticism.
"If you're going to give the attackers a fast/dash weapon (spur) then I think that these big guys should have a heavy sword. It wouldn't be as powerful as the defender's sword; all classes apart from the attacker and defender classes should have a relatively large melee/gun damage penalty."
Like I said, the Siege men already have rocket launchers, which deal heavy damage. A weak sword apparently won't work, judging by your post, but IMO a heavy sword seems too much. Maybe something average, something related to a calibur or brandish?
Jue, 04/26/2012 - 17:56
#27
"Famous criticism"
If you consider about ten users actually reading my posts and everyone else skipping the whole thing as famous, then I agree with this statement.
And now for our featured presentation. Wait, I forgot the "no cell phones" and "go buy snacks" clips; never mind, there is no time.
We shall begin with the "classes".
Offense:
Attacker: buffed damage
Disabler: deactivates traps
Siegemen: rocketeers
Defense:
Defender: restricted to stay inside the fort, health buff, Guardian shield, slower movement
Trapper: lays various traps; blocks, mines, spikes, et cetera
Turretmen: controls turrets
Hunter: lowered damage, fast attacks; essentially a scout
To balance the team classes, cut the Hunter class and allow Defender to go outside; before doing so, make it so Defender gets a defense buff where Attacker gets an offensive buff, making them opposites in damage to defense. The Disabler seems to be a sort of engineer, capable of disabling enemy traps and possibly using them for their own team by moving them; the traps would effect everyone as normal but the offensive team Disabler would be able to pick it up and move it somewhere else, out of the way or in the way of defense. The rocketeer seems interesting, but imagine a team full of these; consider making this restricted to only one or two per team or make it the "leader" class selected by the team. The "leader" would have no benefits to the user, but provide their team with various buffs: attack or movement speed, damage, et cetera; they may not be the best alone but they would have to work with the rest of the team to be useful.
As for the defense team, again, cut the Hunter and make Defender the common foot soldier. Trappers and Defenders would be allowed to run around; Trappers set up ambush points while Defenders stop the main wave. For the turret controlling class, they could be another "leader" by providing defensive buffs rather than offensive, or only have one or two Turretmen in a team restricted to a blocked off area where they have to stay with the turrets.
Let the game begin.
I assume the fortress layout has an inner hall, where the defensive team starts, and the battlement is an open area with various walls and blockades to use. The offensive team would charge, having various ambush cover and what not; a box to hide in, a hallway which goes around the defensive area leading near the end of the battlement, et cetera; having a creative map makes this part more interesting. Trappers would only have one of each trap (poison, freeze, fire, shock, spikes) and be able to set them up where they wish, such as in the previous hallway which flanked the defensive team. "Oh, you wanted to go around all of our team and pick off our turret guys? Nope, shock pad." Again, limit how many are on turrets if they are manually controlled; there could be two or three per player, who gets a "repair" weapon which fixes the turrets in place of having any weapons, forcing some of the defensive team to stay back to protect the inner base. A ten minute round sounds good for this. In the defensive team base there could be a flag or generator to protect behind the turret area; when the offensive team captures or kills it they win, if the defensive team manages to hold out then they win. All this needs is the same revival mechanic as the other minigames.
Sounds good. I would play that.
Effort: 10/10
Creativity: 9/10
Detail: 9/10
Mechanical applicability: 8/10
Profits Three Rings: 8/10
Jue, 04/26/2012 - 18:09
#28
:D
Woot! You actually posted! And gave a good rating!
It'll take some time for me to process everything you wrote and apply it, but it seems to be interesting stuff, judging my my quick skim.
Sáb, 04/28/2012 - 00:04
#29
So two issues still stand:
A)
So two issues still stand:
A) How the aiming mechanism for the Mortar will work
B) Will Turret Men, Seige Men, Trappers and Detrappers have weapons in addition to their special abilities?
I was thinking something along the lines of
A) Have it autotarget the nearest enemy. This wouldn't require any additional mechanics, but the problem with it is it would create automation and that's boring, not to mention frustrating at times.
B) I'm thinking they should. (Of course I think so, I wrote up a large section on what weapons they should have X] )
I reckon the buffs and debuffs of each class should be:
DEFENDER:
Defender Shield (Huge defense, no healing abilities)
Sword Damage Increase: Medium
Gun Attack Speed Increase: Medium
ATTACKER:
Default Shield (Overall Defense)
Sword Attack Speed Increase: Medium
Gun Attack Speed Increase: Medium
Movement Speed Increase: Medium
TRAPPER:
Recon Shield (Low Defense, Cloaking ability that can't be deactivated by a strike but has a charge bar)
Bomb Charge Time Reduction: High
Movement Speed Increase: Medium
Sword Damage Decrease: Low
DETRAPPER:
Surge Shield (Low Defense, Shield bumping floor traps shuts them off but breaks the shield)
Bomb Charge Time Reduction: High
haven't finished yet...
Dom, 04/29/2012 - 11:11
#30
i support you all the way bro.
+ 999,999,999 to this idea. friggin amazing. BUT! Hexzyle, i think u have made the trapper and attacker classes a little too OP. thats is my only objection. other than that, great job.
My name is InsaneJesterKing, and i approve this message.
Dom, 04/29/2012 - 12:22
#31
@Insanejesterking
Could you please clarify where, so I can fix it?
Dom, 04/29/2012 - 13:20
#32
np @Hexzyle :)
sorry about not clarifying myself. my bad. :/
I'll do that now:
In regards to the attacker-
i think that you may have overdone it a little on the buffs. the sword and gun attack speeds are good, but i think that you should drop the movement speed increase. my reasons are thus: the defenders are already a slow-moving class right? add a movement buff to the defenders main enemy (attackers) and the defender basically becomes a sad little turtle, feebly throwing up its shield, unable to move or attack while the attacker dances around it dealing damage faster than it can counter-attack. so sad T.T (see my logic there?)
on to the trapper-
lower the bomb charge reduction down to medium,
because high bomb reduction speed+speed increase med.= one hellafast bomb spammer, and that could cause havec on computers with low refresh rates. (think nitronome spam troubles times five O.o)
Soooo.....thats the gist of it. hope my critisism helped somehow XD
Lun, 04/30/2012 - 01:36
#33
Ah you're talking about the
Ah you're talking about the personal buffs, not the abilities/weapons. Ok.
I don't know all that much about detailed lockdown so I don't know what's balanced or not. I'll get round to changing this soon.
Mié, 05/02/2012 - 13:36
#34
+ infinity
I think trappers should also be able to drop monster cages.
The monsters when killed drop nothing not even hearts.
Also I think the battlepod should have 2 bullets orbiting around it like in toy soldiers.
Finally I think when you kill a person they should drop 1 heart like in lockdown.
Mié, 05/02/2012 - 19:55
#35
Hmmm......
i agree with leafbladers post. what about you hexzyle? L.O.N? WHAT SAY YOU!!?
Jue, 05/03/2012 - 04:11
#36
@Leafblader
I really don't know. I'm trying to refine the mechanics we've thought up so far, before adding any more things like monsters.
Sure, orbiting bullets would be ok, but only if there needs to be balancing issues i.e. in the case that attackers are always getting to and destroying the battlepod too fast. Having a heart drop from players would be a standard in all PvP games. But thanks for mentioning it.
Dom, 05/06/2012 - 09:08
#37
/e is surprised this is still alive.
Haven't checked up on this for some time.
Orbiting bullets would be fine, but, like Hex siad, only if there's a balancing issue.
Perhaps, instead of bullets, it could have those breakable shields? Not the ones that shut down, but the ones you gotta destroy?
Dom, 05/06/2012 - 10:39
#38
re: orbiting shields
that sounds good.
Lun, 07/02/2012 - 17:15
#39
lol other games.
Have any of you ever played Tribes: ascend? it has almost the exact same classes as the ones describes here.
this comment shows the classes for STF.
this wiki page for Tribes shows the classes in Tribes: Ascend.
Also a minor concern: i feel that the attacker's role will be limited in the first 1/2 of the game, and the siege-men will become useless in the second half.
Lun, 07/02/2012 - 17:24
#40
No necro'ing please :)
Please check the timestamp on the last post and make sure not to revive any threads that have been abandoned.
Kinda ironic how the comment quoted someone named Lord of Necromancers x3
Lun, 07/02/2012 - 19:06
#41
:D
I see someone has necroed my old thread. TY.
Now that someone's already neacroed this, I might as well add more stuff. Later.
Lun, 07/02/2012 - 19:12
#42
Hurp
Make another post for it instead of dumping it into the original post so we know what is new. Otherwise it all melts together like two chunks of cheese on a heated frying pan.
Dom, 12/02/2012 - 10:52
#43
+5
I really like this idea, makes me think of this game I play called Fat Princesses, don't laugh its a real game
Dom, 12/02/2012 - 21:04
#44
-
Oh I remember this thread :)
Lun, 12/03/2012 - 13:08
#45
Nice idea! :)
Nice idea! :)
I don't think traps should damage friendly troops. That would just raise the oppurtunity for epic trolling (like the many famous engineer team-killing/trapping pranks)
If you're going to have indestructable blocks, make it so that a pathfinding bot prevents the castle entrances from being completely blocked off like the restrictions in Desktop Tower Defense.
Depending on how large the fortress is, perhaps allow traps to be set inside it.
Trap setters should be completely invisible (by activating an ability) or not invisible at all. A chroma-like invisibility once played against for a few times will be almost completely useless except to the most careless of players.
Perhaps they could share a recon-like ability: Cloaking with the shield key, switching traps with the switch weapons button, and placing them with the attack button. Or they could Cloak with the shield key, switch weapons and attack like normal, but be able to pick up trap "pills" and place them by pressing the 1-4 keys.
There should be a lot of restrictions for trap setting, such as being inable to set a trap down where a player is standing, or having a cooldown time on how fast traps can be placed, or a "ghost-mark" where a trap is about to be placed to prevent perma-trapping teammates and enemies.
Remember, having constructable units can create a LOT of abusements (again, like engineers)