OP is full of fail

Points=energy

Post is full of nothing but troll or fail

I'm with deltaminion here. We really have to make sure to pander to absolutely everyone in the world immediately! I know there are some 4 year old girls who refuse to play this game because of the startling lack of ponies! We need some ponies in here NOW!

(in other words - if you don't like the system at all, then don't play the game. Suggesting small changes in precise limits and regen rates or availability is one thing, demanding that an entire fundamental system of the game is removed is another)

I started 5-6 days ago and I have almost been able to play endlessly without paying real money for CE and got to tier 2 two days ago. So the implemention hasn't been too limmitting to me. I do however find it a bit unmotivating/unrewarding when I go for a run and then have to give up 80 % of the crowns in order to keep playing (Maybe more or less depending on how well it went), not mentioning crafting requirements.

How I think it could be different? Make progressing in gates free, but with a con or several cons that would still motivate people to use energy in their "explorations" (or more exactly extermination).

My idea on how it could be done? When you either join a party or enter a gate you have an option to take a device with you. This device is what makes you able to pick up those infinite amounts of crowns, materials, and recipes (minerals are extracted by the mining operations when you enter the gate, so those whon't be affected), the drawback is that it will need 10 energy per floor to be kept active, it will not have to be activated on midposts or towns. In other words, having the device will be the exact same as now, with the difference that you will be able to continue travelling when the energy runs out, but with the cons from now on as if you had chosen not to go down with the device. The device is fully automatic and it can thus not be turned off manually.

So, what happens when you do not use the device? I am a bit uncertain of what would be the best win-win-win situation for non CE paying players, CE paying players and Three Rings.

- If we go with the describtion, players not using the device would have a limited space for materials, recipes and crowns. This would either be an individual limit for each category or a total limit. Matreials could be added to an temporary materials category making you able to throw them out or trade with other players in your party. There will be a time limit if you get a material while the temporary inventory is full, where you will get the material if a slot is made avaible within that time. If it is not, then the remaining players will randomly get it. If the time limit expanded by all players then the material is lost. This limit could change with player tier and/or gate tier. The most problamatic part of this soloution is that some players would leave the gate when their capacity is full, and I think we all agree on how much fun that is.

- If we can not limit by amount, then we could try to limit it by percentage gain. While the actual amount would need to be adjusted, I imagine something like 16 2/3 % (1/6) (EDIT 26/4: after measuering a tier 1 run, change that to 1/7) crowns (we still need to motivate people to buy CE, though this might be a bit much), you would have a lower change of getting materials. The disadvantage with this is the materials part. Having someone in the party with a higher change could call out some peoples... darker side. Another disadvantage is, that it would have no effect if all party members were not using the device or someone were soloing.

- A third option is a combination of the two previous limitations. Crowns would most likely be the most motivating limit for leaving the party when full, so the secound option would work better there. Materials, on the other hand, was the problamatic part of the secound option and would work better with a limited amount.

These are my thoughts on how it could be done, this became a bit more block of text then I had originally planned, thus thanks for reading this far.

~ gruntmaster1

@OP, Radical changes are not needed. I'm so tired of seeing radical changes as suggestions. Take out the energy, is so far from a real solution to anything that it isn't even a suggestion. Honestly, it's about as valuable as saying, MAKE THIS A SPORTS GAME!!!

Ok, here is a secret. The heart of this game is energy management. The game IS energy management. OK? Energy management is as important to the game as swinging your sword at a slime. It is the damn game. It is DESIGNED to be the heart of the game.

And you wanna know something else? A lot of people, myself, my brother, others, people who do post, people who don't post...a lot of people consider managing your energy an absolute blast. If you don't like, you should probably just play one of those other MMO's/games that all the whiners talk about.

or go play a sports game, i don't care

@Jeburk: I disagree entirely. Energy management is DEFINITELY not the heart of this game.

At this point, it is part of it - but obviously its not what the game is focused on. Spiral Knights is a fast-paced action RPG reminiscent of those old console games like A Link to The Past, and it brings that play style up into a MMO fashion. That is the heart of the game.

People asking for a redesign or change to the energy system have every right to talk about it - to them, it is limiting their play time of the core game. Personally, I doubt the developers wanted "currency management" as one of their primary game factors.

And while I'm sure people may have fun managing their energy, I'm sure even more like the game itself. I don't play these games to mess around with virtual currencies and their values.

Imagine yourself relaxing and enjoying a game at your computer or in your living room. Suddenly a stranger runs into the room and begins to repeatedly slam his face into a wall, shouting "LOOK AT HOW STUPID I AM! LOOK AT HOW IGNORANT I AM!"

That is how it looks whenever someone starts a new thread about energy.

modyobwoc: Do not forget that they would still have mist energy. They would be able to use this as they normally do and only after that would they have the tremndious grinding, currently they have nothing (not sure if all that mist energy is used on revivng or what, maybe I just had a lucky start).

All you have to do is spend $5 and you'll have enough of an energy buffer that you won't have to worry about not being able to play ever again. You can then play as much as you want as long as you spend some time trading in crowns.

If you're not willing to throw $5 into the game than I don't see why Three Rings should really care about you as "customer". I've spent only $10 and now I see mist energy merely as a freebie thrown my way and not the thing that lets me play.

@ modyobwoc: Not at all, I got like a little over 4k crowns by playing 2 days (also bought new helmet, vest,gun and recipe for like 1k total, not much only basic gear)..... I wanted to craft the weapon but it required 50 mist and I only had like 10 left.... next day I could buy it but then I would cut my play time of that day in half by just crafting a weapon??
And if I use that money I collected by playing 2 days on buying 100 mist.....I would throw away 2 days of money for what....an hour....hour and a half more play time?

Using energy ok..... but using such limited energy for the use of lifts, crafting, weapon slot AND reviving??? I find it just too much for a "free" game. I've said it before, lose the "free" in the advertisement and put DEMO limited time instead.

If you only have to pay 5$ like that other guy said, it isn't free.

Used energy I think 2 times last run to revive me and teammates (gave half my life to revive someone then he just died....) because I'm a teamplayer and like to help people, and the rest I used to descend levels. There were only 3 people in my party including me, 2 afterwards and the other dude died a lot.

I think energy isn't really the problem.

Before comparing SK to other MMO's, it should be noted that SK as a product that positions themselves entirely differently. It isn't a game like Maplestory, D&D, etc. They're positioned alongside browser-games like DD Tanks, Facebook games by Zynga and others.

SK differentiates itself from those "build your empire/farm" or "turn-based RPG" is that it is a casual, browser action MMORPG reminiscent of the old-school RPGs. Along with the other ThreeRing products, they were never meant to be played 24h. It is meant to be played a little bit per day, giving you the sense of gradual progression and adventure. Even the revival system reminds me of how punishing those old games are, where if you die, you either pay a hefty price or have to restart all over again. (those games with no savepoints were the worst...)

Also, if you were able to play for so long, I'm sure you'd be reaching cap. content in matter of days then quit. The idea of cashshops would throw SK into the more competitive game market and compete directly for players. Without energy limit playtime and player's progression in the game, it would also demand from SEGA perhaps a larger dev. team to push out more content, making it unfeasible.

Lastly, considering profit, the energy system is not only ThreeRing's source of revenue, but also a mechanism that "locks-in" their players. If you don't want to invest an hour dungeon-crawling or are too busy in life, you can always spend the energy crafting and still feel progression.

@killahpsych,
A few real quick suggestions, and i realize this is a learning curve, because i did the same thing you did...but only buy recipes when you are going to use them then/on the spot. At least for the beginning of you SK career, the rules will change a little as you progress. This may even mean opening the wiki and looking at the requirements of the item and getting them 1st as well. You don't want to be all set to make your sword and realize you need 2 swordstone and either have to pay 600-1k crowns for it, or be completely out of luck :(

Next thing, you said if you make the item now with the 50 CE requirement you will only get 1/2 your daily play. BUT!!! You can do your daily play 1st, then when you are done you buy more energy, then you craft your item. On day 3 you now have more energy than you would have otherwise had, AND you have your new item, AND with your new item you can theoretically make money slightly more efficiently.

I know this is not a solution to your problem, but i hope it at least helps.

Also, once your day is done from an energy standpoint, take the time to yell WTS in the trade chat. The sooner you get comfortable with this the better off you will be. Alternately, for a starting player i suggest do this: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/5059 works great for me when i don't feel up to shouting in trade channels.

Here's a small log of my first day on Spiral Knights, 'kay?

>Log on and make character.
>Finish tutorial.
>Hop in a dungeon and go all the way to the T2 gate, come out with about 2-3k crowns (In a party).
>Complete the mission and get a mist tank.
>Use mist tank and go in a dungeon again, come out with about 2-3k crowns again.
>Use crowns to buy 100CE.
>Run a dungeon again, come out with enough money for another 100CE and a cutter.
>Became self-sufficient and never bought CE with real money, ever.

I don't see a problem, maybe you people should stop being so generally terrible at games instead of whining about how a game needs to fit YOUR demands, I've been playing for about 2 weeks with 3 days total playtime, and I have full t4 without spending a penny on CE, can you see the difference?

TL;DR: Get your head out of your ass and play the game instead of whining about it

I see that it would be harder (read 'take longer') to farm mats/crowns for those not using energy but I just don't see why it is necessary. You say it would benefit those who are bad at playing, or can't manage their crowns as well but why panda to these players? What about just sending them an in game mail that says "if you're smart, you can make enough crowns from your mist energy to buy yourself ce and play for longer without spending $$". Perhaps worded in a slightly more encouraging manner.

Also why give bad players an easy way out but give nothing to the free players that don't suck?

The price of energy is not steep. Each elevator costs about 3 cents. A piece of 4* gear is only 75 cents (at most, less if you buy bigger packages of energy).

If you don't have a credit card you can pay by mobile, you can get an Ultimate Game Card (available at CVS, Walgreens, Target, etc.) and apply that via the "Pay By Cash" payment option, or you can even mail a check or money order to the OOO office (don't send cash!).

With the price and amount of Crystal energy you recieve when you buy it, its way more expensive then World of Warcraft, Wow is $15 a month and on this game i went through $12 in less then 3 days... what they need to do is get rid of Energy, or at least lower the price of energy.. simple as that.

yes you can play a month on $5 of energy if you keep refilling it with your crowns, but the downside is you have no extra money to get new armor or anything, your just running around in circles not going anywhere with your levels. I am suggesting that they make it so we can still access armor and weapons without having to buy energy to get more crowns and runs in. If you read my new thread its a great way to save energy but still keep the market going and save some players.

I know several people in 5-star gear that have not spent real money on energy at any point.

This punches holes in your entire argument. Moreover, the fact that this has been debated dozens of times(with more constructive, more intelligent, and far more well-thought-out and less insulting posts than yours), with roughly the exact same conclusion every time:

Shut up and play the game, or shut up and leave. Either way, shut up.

If you want to make money without losing players you should take away energy and make a cash shop were you can put exclusive equips and items in. you should make cards and send them to rite aid, cvs, albertsons,etc. every day your losing players because of the energy. some ideas of stuff to put in the cash shop is a little monster that can help you fight or a giant hammer or even a crystal gpa. all im saying is that you should make a cash shop for exclusive items. make cars like 20000 points for $20 or 10000 for 10, 50000 for $50. thats all i have to say.

Comeone. its just a game. :D

If this game have to stay alive then pay for the funding for this game. buy much energy all you want, this game is pose to keep the market spending out control, control over farming, control hacker overwhelming power, keep the chaos in order. Not only that its is true we do waste lots energy...I don't blame you, I think they need reduce the energy uses when going to the battle and crafting.

I don't blame your suggestion, but I can't ignore the game reputation and its funding it needs and yes I know its hard keep bunch players happy at the same time. Just enjoy the moments to cool down with.

On what Earth is this system broken?
I have never spent a penny on CE.
I currently have 400CE, 50,000CR and all 3 star equipment.
This is because I play one dungeon a day and know how to limit myself, Spiral Knights was not designed for long, long periods of playtime.

The only reason I haven't upgraded my equipment yet is because I'm happy to just farm money and CE for now.

That is all.

Also: self reviving is silly and should only be done the first time if at all.

This will never happen, OOO will lose tons of money.