Spiral Knights - The reason why I haven't played spiral knights for months

The reason why I haven't played spiral knights for months

24 replies [Last post]

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 21:43

Djawed

Spiral Knights has changed alot ever since the start. To get this out of the way quickly before some tards put me there with the whiners, I have actually been supporting alot of decisions 3 rings made and still make with the newer updates. I do login eventually just to check out how the game is doing, but i noticed a major reduction in the game's population. I actually saw this coming, and this is the reason why.

The newer content that was added with the mission thing, was in my opinion implemented in a horrible way. Every mission was set to be its own "party" so the chance you will meet someone in a mission now, after everyones probably done them allready, is very slim.

What I have to say to 3 rings is, do not underestimate the croud that plays spiral knights because how easy it was to meet someone others within a gate. Partying up was so simple that one didnt have to think about it. But now you are left to feel rather frustrated not being able to quickly team up with people within these missions, unless you ask friends (which u probably wont have as a new player) or just go around haven and ask someone (which is a pain in the ass).

My suggestion would be, change the mission mechanic system. As a great SEGA fan, i've been playing phantasy star online 2 beta lately, and that game encourages going back to previous missions, and it works well since there arent alot of missions. You get little quests from NPC's to go back and finish some quick asignment only possible within that specific mission. This is only 1 idea, but I also think it's hard to join each other when there are so many missions which divides people. Add in the dividing IP's for eur and US and the fact you can't join someone after he's gone down the elevator within a mission, it just is impossible.

I'm guessing some of you will say "so ignore the missions and just do regular gates where people do hang out alot". Honestly the feeling I cant finish the story(which i really wanna do) with the same amount of fun I have with regular gates, sucks. And i'm wondering what you all think. Should the mission system get an overhaul and taking "community" play more into consideration in the next version? I know it is farfetched but i'm only suggesting this as I love this game alot and dont want it to ruin the experience of newcomers. I have no doubt alot of newcomers may end up giving up as well when they start out with the missions and not find any soul to help em out.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I personally quit the game entirely after noticing this flaw.

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 21:54

Bopp

so in summary

So, in summary, it is hard to form a party for a mission, because (A) most players do most missions only once, and (B) at any given time there are very few players online who need to do your particular mission.

I agree. This is a design flaw.

It's such a small flaw that I can't imagine quitting the game over it.

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 21:59

Djawed

Yup well, it's a persnal

Yup well, it's a persnal characteristic. I can't stand games that are designed a certain way and not encouraged to be played using all it's functionalitiies in a perfect manner.

Compare it to games where you have an awful lot of movesets, but there is one that stands out being overpowered and is able to finish the most part of the game without any effort. Yes you have the choice to use the movesets, but it is gonna make you feel weird still. Such flaws irk me and make me quit games entirely since they make the game feel flawed.

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:01

Kitty-Softpaws

I've been whining about lack

I've been whining about lack of social aspect in this game since May of 2011..

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:02

Iron-Volvametal

So, um, yeah...

Can I have your Stuff?

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:03

Ripshock

-_-

Well I hope you know Spiral knights will never be perfect and is still growing... So if a tiny flaw means I giant difference to you then its your loss

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:08

Eltia

Kind of agree with OP

I believe the problem is that mission system and normal gate system fragment the user base. This becomes increasing noticeable when the user population is dropping.

What could be done is that, integrate the mission system into the gate system. e.g. when you reach a certain stratum, special elevator or path would take you to a mission oriented route, such as a boss waiting. If the existing party decides to help out whoever needing the missions, they can go together. Otherwise, people who want to leave may choose to go solo and the remaining party can wait for reinforcement.

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:09

Djawed

@Ripshock Take me out of the

@Ripshock

Take me out of the picture for a second and view this issue as a whole like I did in my OP. this isnt about me, this is about the player base in general. When people enter spiral knights, they have to get a great first impression the first few days. The missions are there to be done as a quick experience like let's say, a single player mode in an online shooter (call of duty and bf3). While many go straight to the multiplayer mode, alot of people still love doing the single player mode "first" in those games before they go on with the multiplayer. Now swap the single player mode of these online shooters with spiral knights mission mode, and swap the multiplayer mode of those games with spiral knights gates.

The difference here is that the mission mode has a flaw that can possibly kill ones first experience with the game, or like me, feeling stuck within the flaw and not even bothered to put effort since that is not the way it should be in the first place

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:24

Thissauceisboss

you may be on to something

although i don't think problem breaks the game at all, it was very annoying to find knights to help me with levels (like the gauntlet that i had to solo...and died a lot) so i think your idea would help to get people to assist others in some of the harder missions.

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 22:32

Gigglebytes

Great points

I've made it to some of the final T3 mission before KOA but I experience extreme difficulties actually getting through the levels. I feel like if I had a team to support me I would be able to get through the missions easier. But nobody that bothers to get that high wants to do those missions again. D:

Thu, 05/10/2012 - 23:04

#10

Krazyghost

its true

T1 and T2 i basically soloed, the only missions with people on them is the snarby one and JK. Not something i would quit over but definatley would have been a HUGE pain if i didnt have 4* weapons.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 00:31

#11

Evilnut

Didn't you get the message?

OOO's urging us back to the Arcade.

Mission crown and heat output tuned down, and the clockwork versions of the bosses pay better than the mission versions. The current patch's tweak to JK and arena missions further reinforce that.

Head back to the gates; there you have better earnings and social contacts you yearns for.

For help with missions, you should either:
- Enter the mission lobby with it unlocked, and wait. If there's another soul seeking a partner, they will attempt to join. That's how I find a partner to go through The Gauntlet (and we didn't die, not even once) and my first attempt at King of Ashes.
- Ask in front of AH. Since other knights would be using their time and energy to help you, you should offer something in return. Like giving them your heat, tab them some or all of the levels, crowns upfront, etc.
- Ask a friend to help. Many knights do that for friends from time to time.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 01:14

#12

Tunher

Yeah it seems like the wider

Yeah it seems like the wider and broader the content the slimmer the players enjoying each aspect of it. The slightly old MMO Guild Wars ran into this to where early towns and missions would be completely devoid of life. They eventually implemented NPC henchmen, let us hope Spiral Knights doesn't go the same route and either forces soloing or finding a party.

Some kind of global "LFG" interface would be handy, where people could say "I'm going to play Mission 6-2, anyone interested?!" and people can Tell and then Join directly. In general even the approach of only being able to invite people from your friends list is cumbersome. Similarly an in-Haven party system would be great, so that you could party up and all join the same mission without needing to be Friends and do manual Invites.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 06:40

#13

Pauling

There is zone chat in every

There is zone chat in every given haven instance if you want to reach people.

Or, try asking your guild mates for company. A good guild makes a world of difference.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 06:46

#14

Eltia

@Pauling

How many people you want to get reported for spamming?

Maintaining guilds in this game is more time consuming than others. This game is branded as F2P means people's turn over is pretty high.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 07:22

#15

Fehzor

I addressed that in my book-

I addressed that in my book- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/53465

Anyways, you're right, missions need some kind of a feature to get players to go back and do them. I regularly help people at them, but thats just because I'm nice... I don't actually get something from it, really. Hmm...

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 07:39

#16

Eltia

My thought

With the recent nerf of incomes from both money making missions and JK, together with nerfing of mobs + buffing of weapons, it looks to me OOO wants people to spend more time to earn CR. In a way, this is good because it helps keep CE prices down.

*However*

Let's not forget this game should be fun. Do people really want to grind over the same thing over and over again for minimum income (wage), or guide n00bs through missions over and over again (and eventually these n00bs prefer to play certain upcoming game starting with letter "D")? These are all things I hope Nick and his crews could address too.

The current strategy the Dev took would help keep the dropping body counts. But without new content to keep the game fun, SK will only be running on borrowed time.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 08:26

#17

Paweu

Last time I checked Diablo 3

Last time I checked Diablo 3 wasn't F2P so ???

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 08:57

#18

Eltia

@Paweu

Last time I checked, SK isn't entirely F2P neither. (It has a P2P component.)

Your point?

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 09:48

#19

Paweu

You can't play Diablo 3 at

You can't play Diablo 3 at all without paying, you can play Spiral Knights without paying.
What are you even saying?

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 10:45

#20

Eltia

@Paweu

In case you still don't get the point.

When people leave SK, it will be the P2P players. The F2P will never "quit" because it costs them nothing to enter or leave the game.

So your argument is moot because you are missing the point.

The mandate of Nick and crews should be:

1. Make the P2P players happy. One reason I still hold hope about this game is that the Dev listens. The Antialiasing, story, performance tweaks and gun patches are all nice. But since March, the Devs have been releasing waves after waves of useless accessories. Then followed by making the game ridiculously easy. OP has a point: mission system has design flaw in it and should be deal with. It reduces the social aspect of SK.

2. Have a better, harder look at the so-called F2P players. Let's face it, these people come and go because they are "free" by definition. They do not bring in revenue (P2P does). They exist because for 1. good publicity, 2. keep the social aspect of SK going, 3. potential candidates to be converted to P2P.

Let's not be mistaken about this. F2P does not bring in money. P2P does. (I know a lot of you folks do not like this statement. But as harsh as it sounds, this is the reality.)

3. Why that game begins with "D" will impact SK. Very simple. Many of us have been using SK as a time holder for waiting for the "D" game (some may wait for the "G" game). And now, the Lord of Destruction is about to arrive to Cradle. And we are still doing what? Think the "D" game won't do anything to SK because it is P2P?

It's not only Paweu that needs to think more thoroughly about the way SK has been going since March. Nick, in particular, needs to think very, very hard about how to keep SK floating not on borrowed time. OP raises some very good points about the mission system and I strongly encourage the Devs to take a harder look about the issue on hands.

At last, I know Ian's art works are good and all. Creating accessories are good use of his talents (but please don't abuse his talents this way).

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 11:28

#21

Paweu

"When people leave SK, it

"When people leave SK, it will be the P2P players. The F2P will never "quit" because it costs them nothing to enter or leave the game."

Well, there is no arguing that if someone leaves SK for Diablo 3 it will be a player from the paying playerbase (even though it will be at best like 20 people leaving lol)

"1. Make the P2P players happy. One reason I still hold hope about this game is that the Dev listens. The Antialiasing, story, performance tweaks and gun patches are all nice. But since March, the Devs have been releasing waves after waves of useless accessories. Then followed by making the game ridiculously easy. OP has a point: mission system has design flaw in it and should be deal with. It reduces the social aspect of SK."

Let's see if it was only accessories starting with March, ending with May:

- Added over 30 Rank Missions through rank 9-4, allowing you to achieve the rank of Vanguard.
Items
- Blessed and Sacred Silver Amulets have had their star values corrected.
- Volcanic Demo Suit now has a medium CTR boost.

Armor & Helms

Skelly series:
- Removed fire weakness

Magic Cloak series:
- Removed stun weakness

Drake Scale series:
- Added Poison resist.

Chaos set:
- Added Charge Time bonus
- Removed stun and sleep weakness

Justifier set:
- Added stun resist

Shadowsun set:
- Added poison resist
- Removed curse weakness
- Changed piercing defense to shadow defense
- Increased handgun damage bonus

Deadshot set:
- Added Handgun Attack speed

Nameless set:
- Added freeze resist

Bombastic Demo set:
- Added freeze resist
- Increased bomb damage bonus

Shields

Drake scale series:
- Added poison resist

Swords

Troika and Triglav Series, Thwack Hammer:

Charge attack changes:
- Charge attack is now a two hit combo
- Increased charge attack damage area
- First hit does not impulse or apply status, is weaker
- Second hit is more powerful, has status

Spur, Arc Razor and Winmillion:

Basic attack combo changes:
- Attack one no longer has a forward impulse.
- Attack one hit box narrowed and elongated slightly to bring inline with other swords.
- Attack two forward impulse increased slightly.
- Attack three knock-back impulse increased slightly.
- Attack three hit box widened.

Charge attack changes:

- Backstep at beginning of swing removed.
- Spur charge attack power reduced
- Arc Razor and Winmillion charge attack power increased, bullets now pierce through multiple targets

Now with Blast Processing!
Spiral Knights has received a significant performance boost! SEGA has shared with OOO the secret of ‘Blast Processing’ and it has result in faster, smoother gameplay across the board! (Ok, maybe we just introduced a bunch of graphical optimizations.)

Many players will find they now have greatly increased framerates in even the most hazardous of levels, such as the Ironclaw Munitions Factory. Please note that this boost will not necessarily be noticeable by every player, though some will see a dramatic change.

If you had problems running the game in the past, or know someone who did, now is the time to jump back in and see the action in a whole, new way!

Graphics
- Added a 'Cull Transients' toggle to the Advanced Video Options. This is an experimental toggle which could improve game performance in complicated levels. When enabled, there will likely be some side effects where certain graphical and audio effects will not be played.

New User Experience
The Crash Site, Rescue Camp and Rescue Camp Missions have been revamped. New players will now meet their pal Rhendon and join him as they save the Rescue Camp from the monsters that lurk in the dark and the evil gremlin Schemer, Razwog.

This new experience is a taste of what's to come in the Spiral Knights story. Stay tuned!

Items
- All bombs have had their damage output increased by 15%
- All handguns have had their damage increased by 10% and their charge attack damage increased by 20%

Minor art changes to the following Swords:
- Slime Slasher
- Super Slime Slasher
- Beast Basher
- Big Beast Basher

Damage increased:
- Slime Slasher
- Super Slime Slasher
- Beast Basher
- Big Beast Basher

- Hatchet: increased damage area for charge attack

- Damage bonus increased:
- Cyclops Cap
- Fencing Jacket

- Proto Bomb: now has a chance HIGH to Stun MODERATE.

Damage area increased:
- Twisted Spine Cone
- Proto Bomb
- Firecracker
- Cold Snap
- Static Flash
- Spine Cone

Fuse time decreased:
- Super Blast Bomb
- Twisted Spine Cone
- Dark Briar Barrage
- Proto Bomb
- Firecracker
- Cold Snap
- Static Flash
- Blast Bomb
- Spine Cone

Fuse time increased:
- Master Blast Bomb
- Spike Shower

Status power increased:
- Cold Snap
- Static Flash
- Firecracker

Bullet Speed increased, minor knock-back added, charge shot damage radius increased:
- Proto Gun
- Stun Gun
- Frost Gun
- Super Stun Gun
- Zapper
- Blaster
- Super Blaster
- Master Blaster
- Valiance

Moderate Knock-Back added, MEDIUM construct damage added, extra shot added before reload:
- Punch Gun
- Pummel Gun

- Robo Wrecker (0* sword) and Rugged Robo Wrecker (1* sword) have been added to the Bazaar catalogs

Nope, not at all. Only accessories alright. And just what made the game easier? Retrodes having less health? Please, let's not kid around. And if you check around you can see that bugs get fixed really fast if they are vital, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any content like a new floor type but we are getting a lot of stuff currently if you include those quoted things and all the bugfixes.

"2. Have a better, harder look at the so-called F2P players. Let's face it, these people come and go because they are "free" by definition. They do not bring in revenue (P2P does). They exist because for 1. good publicity, 2. keep the social aspect of SK going, 3. potential candidates to be converted to P2P."

Without F2P players the game would be a ghost town, I'm not going to point fingers because you can't blame either playerbase and discriminating one over another is really silly, they can't exist without each other.

"Let's not be mistaken about this. F2P does not bring in money. P2P does. (I know a lot of you folks do not like this statement. But as harsh as it sounds, this is the reality.)"

This is also a flawed statement because F2P can bring money, indirectly, by promoting the game between friends who just might be happy to pay.

"3. Why that game begins with "D" will impact SK. Very simple. Many of us have been using SK as a time holder for waiting for the "D" game (some may wait for the "G" game). And now, the Lord of Destruction is about to arrive to Cradle. And we are still doing what? Think the "D" game won't do anything to SK because it is P2P?"

Spiral Knights is a gamepad arcade game, Diablo 3 is a point&click clicker without any advanced combat mechanics, it has nothing to offer other than grinding. I can't really see how people who are for the arcade gameplay here migrating over to Diablo 3, really. Maybe play along if they like those clickers, but ditch one for another? Nope. I'm disgusted someone would compare even the gameplay. Diablo 3 is just a rehash of the previous ones.

"It's not only Paweu that needs to think more thoroughly about the way SK has been going since March. Nick, in particular, needs to think very, very hard about how to keep SK floating not on borrowed time. OP raises some very good points about the mission system and I strongly encourage the Devs to take a harder look about the issue on hands."

Yes, only accessories, keep it going.

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 11:58

#22

Njthug

@Elita

Maintaining guilds in this game is more time consuming than others. This game is branded as F2P means people's turn over is pretty high.

Maintaining guilds in this game is pretty easy, and not time consuming at all, the guild system is as simple as it can be which makes managing it very easy. The game is F2P players have reached 50kce+ without spending a dime in this game its a lot of handwork and dedication though (time factor buying Ce = reaching goals a bit easier). The game turnover rate is unknown, and if we were to even look at the game turnover rate compare it to its growth rate (amount of accounts created everyday).

Fri, 05/11/2012 - 15:48

#23

Kive

to the OP

I feel ya no one does any other mission besides vana and jk now. Send me a friend request ill hlep you with the missions

Wed, 05/16/2012 - 02:15

#24

Djawed

Ah I certainly didn't get

Ah I certainly didn't get much support on an overhaul of the mission system the last time

3 rings you ought to really consider this idea of overhauling it. As I said, people are finding no one to do missions with m

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The reason why I haven't played spiral knights for months