Which is status resist. That's how I'm starting to see it.. or is Tier 3 different?
Shields are only good for one thing
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 20:49
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:08
#2
Well what I mean is that for
Well what I mean is for defensive terms, it's better to get shields for their status resist than for their corresponding defense meaning how Skelly Shield has shadow defense or how Owlite Shield has elemental defense, etc.
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 21:13
#3
So you're saying you could make it through a fiend stratum with no shadow defense as long as you resist the status they inflict?
Tue, 06/26/2012 - 22:32
#4
No...........................
No.......................................... but Grey Owlite sure is dandy in FSC..
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 01:56
#5
/headdesk
What about shield cancelling and shield bumping?
Or starting a charge without making an attack?
>.>
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:25
#6
Ohh, I see what you're saying.
Ohh, I see what you're saying.
I haven't done tests, but let's say:
Fire + Fiend Level. Specifically devilites.
Would you rather bring:
a) Dread Skelly Shield (Lots of shadow def, no fire resistance)
or
b) Dragon Scale shield (No normal or shadow def, Lots of fire resistance)
You're saying that the fire resistance will be more useful than a shadow defence shield?
I'm not full convinced. I'd probably take option A. While the status resistance is useful, I think the dragon scale shield would break faster due to it not having any shadow/normal def.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:44
#7
You seem to miss the point
You seem to miss the point that many fire sources deal elemental damage (shadow fire, Vana's mask phase projectiles)
or normal damage (Vana's mace), not shadow damage.
Of course Owlite Shield has its use in FSC.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 02:56
#8
Processing Thoughts of You Always
@Sypsy: Maybe, but I'd rather bring a Grey Owlite rather than Dread Skelly. It protects against more dangerous statuses, taking less of a battering than the Dragon Scale due to its normal defence. Be frank - curse is the least common status (other than sleep from Slooms), and poison isn't exactly crippling on a knight. I would much rather be protected from shock spasms and the pure damage inflicted by fire... not to mention that fire is considered elemental damage in the first place.
And if I want shadow protection instead, there's always CoA as an option. :B
But we're getting off-topic.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 04:13
#9
Shields are actually good for all things
I supposed I don't a damage-specific shield when surrounded by turrets or devilites.
I'd also like to mention that my volcanic plate shield has saved my butt pretty hard while cornered by a trojan. Gave my friend easy access to his weak spot!
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 05:36
#10
to a shield, status is a kind of damage
Status affects shields very differently from how status affects knights. To a shield, status is a form of damage. When a shield gets hit with a poison attack (say), the poison causes it to lose some of its health. If the shield has poison resistance, then it will lose very little of its health, compared to a shield that has no poison resistance.
There is no way to definitively say that status protection is more important than damage protection on a shield, unless you can quantify the damage caused to the shield by status and the damage caused to the shield by damage. Lacking those numbers, there is no rational way to settle this argument.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 10:59
#11
bidnez
@OP
Shields are arguably more useful than the weapons you have. With shields you are able to block 100% of the damage you would normally take from an attack. Additionally, shield cancelling and shield bumping allow you greater control over your knight and the battlefield. Playing with people who don't use their shield wisely (or at all) is painful.
@Zeddy
Haha the Volcanic Plate Shield is the best! I'm fairly certain it can tank Trojan hits indefinitely as it recovers faster than they can hurt it. It's also the perfect counter to Vanaduke's mace... not that you should be in the way of it.
@Aureate
The Dread Skelly Shield protects against Freeze and Poison, not Curse. Freeze and Poison are not as immediately lethal as Shock and Fire but are potent in their own right. Also, Fire and Shock ticks deal normal damage, not elemental damage. Environmental fire sources are typically elemental but the actual fire damage is normal.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:03
#12
Shock ticks elemental. Just
Shock ticks elemental. Just check the damage on families on the wiki. Fire seems to be normal, although some enemies do take less damage from it than others.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:22
#13
wopos
That's right, I meant to just say Fire.
That being said, you can't always trust the wiki...
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:42
#14
@Aureate
But I was only talking about a specific level: Fire + Fiend Level. Specifically devilites. You can also think slag walkers since since it is fire+normal+shadow attacks.
Why would you bring a grey owlite over a dread skelly?
And don't bring CoA into the discussion, it has both shadow + fire properties. This is in response to Kitty-Softpaw's logic in post #2.
@Bopp
You can do tests. Have someone with a dread skelly and someone with a dragon scale shield tank swipes from a slag walker.
This will test normal + shadow def vs "fire" dmg.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 11:57
#15
Sypsy
Yes, I agree that one *could* collect data. I'm just saying that no data are being offered here. Until data are offered, this is all just opinion and anecdote.
Wed, 06/27/2012 - 12:40
#16
When you're really late game, there are only two shields you will ever need: Swiftstrike Buckler and Barbarous Thorn Shield. Swiftstrike is for the ASI high and the BTS is for the +Dam with Swords.
Also, status resist is a minor part of what you use a shield for. Beyond traps and the rare attacks that deal specifically only one status of damage, yeah you want status resist on your shield. However, it is far better to get a shield that can withstand a few hits from whatever enemies are around. In tier 3, your shield will withstand less hits, but a Crest of Almire (shadow def) will withstand a lot more Zombie hits than a Grey Owlite Shield.
Some people prioritize Fire as the main source of damage in FSC, thus they get a shield that counters Fire -> Grey Owlite Shield.
Some people (like myself) prioritize Shadow as the main source of damage in FSC, thus they get a shield that counters Shadow -> Skelly/Crest
So in short, shields are only good for either bonuses they give, or if they block the most common source of damage.
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 04:42
#17
@Sypsy
I'd still get the GOwlite. It can stand up well enough to flaming Devilite pitchforks, and I can usually kill them fast enough not to need the shadow protection on the shield.
/shrug
Admittedly, this is from someone who uses BTS for everything unless she's using pure guns or bombs, so...
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 05:50
#18
Interesting way of putting it
Not far off from the truth in terms of shield resistances.
I've joined a party in a poison Candlestick Keep level in tier three, thinking that they were by a loadout box and ended up having to do the level with a Dragon Scale shield.
Despite having no normal or shadow to actually resist the damage of the attacks, it held out remarkably well. I was careful, but a few poison howlitzer hits in a row barely turned it orange.
I was pretty shocked, but status resist on a shield really pays off. More so than with armour.
A good way to see this in action, is to use an appropriate shield to block a status wisp. Since they don't do any damage, only status, you'll notice that freeze wisps can't actually break a Heater Shield, nor can poison ones break Dragon Scale.
Many enemies also seem to do less actual damage if they inflict a status, compared to their "vanilla" versions (just like alchemer damage.)
This seems especially true of mechaknights, and seems to be the case with all turret types. (I believe the status ones do elemental as well as normal, but the plain ones only do normal damage, as well.)
Status resists only apply when shielding.
So if a shield has fire resist (grey owlite shield) then it will resist a fire trap more effectively than a shield without fire resistance, all other things being equal.