Spiral Knights - A short range gun

A short range gun

65 replies [Last post]

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 03:35

Psychorazer

Yeah, sounds crazy, right?

I was thinking about gunners recently, and about another game I played a while back. I thought that gunners' main problem was in close quarters, where there were few weapons that could help them out.

I'm not entirely sure if this is a good idea, so I'm throwing it out there in case someone likes it.

This gun is an addition to the Magnus line. I was thinking of putting it as a 5* upgrade of the Mega Magnus.

It's name is Magnitude.

In short, it's attack is a short range shockwave. More like a force-shotgun.

If you want the more detailed version, the gun is supposed to fire a short-ranged burst, causing high knockback and spread damage. If you don't get that, think of it like firing a large high-speed projectile PAST your targets, and your targets being caught in the ensuing sonic boom, as opposed to being HIT by the projectile.

So its range is, I would guess, about 1.5 squares to either side, and 2-3 squares in front. If drawn, the shape of the effective range should be a triangle. It should have medium knockback, probably 0.4 times that of a Calibur? Also, interrupt is caused by each shot.

Damagewise, it should probably be weaker (2/3 enough?) than the Valiance per shot, and deal normal damage. Two shots seems about right for a weapon like this. But it's damage is spread. That means, for each shot fired, everything in it's effective range takes damage.

The charge attack would be 2 squares to either side, 3.5 squares ahead, and be pretty much like the original attack, except with an extended range, and increased damage. It would also give the user a 1/3 chance of getting stunned. Knockback would be increased to 0.9 times the calibur-line charge knockback.

The purpose of this gun is for close-range gunning effectiveness, allowing a gunner to (hopefully) more successfully combat his/her enemies, instead of having to run away almost all the time.

I'd like some gunners commenting on whether or not they think this is a good idea. Other people are welcome to comment too, but I'd like to see if my target audience would rather shoot the idea down or not.

Sorry for the incredibly vague post, my ability of phrasing seems somewhat frayed at the moment.

List of details:

Weapon details:
- Magnus 5* upgrade
- Knockback-type Shotgun weapon
- Normal damage-type

Normal attack:
- 2/3 the Valiance's bullet damage
- 2-shot clip
- Range is 1.5 squares to either side, and 2-3 squares in front. Shape of range is triangular, base at the player.
- Knockback is 0.4 times the Levi-charge
- Interrupt with every shot.

Charge attack:
- Increased damage output (1.2 times Valiance Charge damage)
- Range is 2 squares to either side, 3.5 squares ahead. Shape is Triangular, as the normal attack.
- 1/3 chance of stunning the user.
- Knockback is 0.9 times Levi-charge.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 04:17

Zeddy

Considering how they're

Considering how they're removing my favourite weapon for "not being bomb-like enough", adding a gun that serves the role of a sword would cause a riot.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 04:40

Psychorazer

I suppose mechanics-wise, it is quite swordlike. But in terms of damage, it won't be close.

I assume you're talking about the RSS-like series? Yeah, I think that's going to take a lot of getting used to for a lot of bombers. Please accept my sincere sympathy in that regard.

And I also see that likeness of the two situations. I'll keep that in mind.

So you're more or less saying that you don't think it's a good idea? If so, reasons noted. I'll keep thinking, but if you don't mind, I'd like to hear what others have to say, especially other gunners.

No offense intended. My tone looks a bit shaky there, so I'm not sure if that came off right.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 04:49

Abyssal-Flamberge

No, no its not vague at all!

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 10:22

Serell

...

I would love OOO forever and ever if they made a short range shotgun <3
+1

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 10:53

Kraanx

short range gun that

short range gun that knockbacks enemies into medium range so youll have to move closer to hit them? seems legit.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 11:20

Storm-Shooter

I'm working on a gunslinger set and ill totally add this to my loadout because , i always get to close when i gun some times.
P.S. I LOVE THIS GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!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Fri, 06/29/2012 - 12:35

Digibyte

Durp

Ever heard of a Blitz Needle?

It's wide spread pretty much makes it a short range gun.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 18:22

Hargbeast

@Spiral-Spectre

I don't think Blitz Needle has very much knockback, though.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 18:35

Luguiru

Hurp

It has a little knockback at all ranges.

The bullet path does not go particularly far.

It has pure normal damage.

The projectile is fairly large.

Valiance.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 13:21

#10

Maharito

I agree that the Autogun

I agree that the Autogun series serves the shotgun role that you're talking about. If you wanted a gun with shorter range, it would have to be stronger (but Needle is already really strong). If it were really short-range, then it wouldn't be a gun. I don't think this one's all that viable.

To me, this just falls back into the 'I use only this class of weapons by choice, either for taste or to simplify high-level armor purchases, but I want to be able to do everything with it' whinefest. If you want an Autogun that does something like this but Normal damage, try Volcanic Pepperbox!

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 13:24

#11

Dukeplatypus

If you want knockback,

If you want knockback, there's pepperbox.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 15:16

#12

Misty-Wellington

The Blaster-series and

The Blaster-series and Autogun series of guns should more than suffice for short-range guns, in my opinion.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 15:39

#13

Serell

the thing is...

The Blitz Needle and Valiance look NOTHING like a freakin shotgun -______-
I...I need a real shotgun.... I... just love shotguns..
We need something that does lots of damage up close (like the autogun), has good knockback (like the blaster), and looks like a shotgun ^^

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:20

#14

Psychorazer

In regard to the 'whinefest' argument, I'm not even a gunner. I only use guns for range and tactical, inclusive of continuing damage inflicted by my sword (usually as a somewhat finishing move) and nuisance effect, hardly ever as my main weapon.

While I'll agree that the Autogun line works similar to this idea, this gun idea is more supposed to be used at a somewhat defensive standpoint. The Pepperbox does deal a lot of knockback, yeah. But last I THINK I saw, it's projectiles explode on contact, so it's only good for keeping a large mob at arm-distance, seeing as it can only hit a number of times. This gun is supposed to be a quickfire attack that repels your enemy.

With this gun, I was aiming for more a situation where you repel your enemy(s) back more effectively, trading defensive ability for power.

Also, it's more noob-friendly in the terms that it has a wider initial range, as opposed to the 'spread-out-later' effect I believe the Autogun lines adopt, so missing is a lot harder. And the knockback should be less annoying than the Polaris is to parties, seeing as it's a shorter range with a smaller clip, so you can't spam it everywhichway direction.

Hypothetically, it'd be used most in a situation like this:

-Mob closes in on you. In another moment, there will be no walking room.
-Pull out Magnitude. Fire at figurative wall of enemies.
-Wall of enemies cleared. Run out, fire as needed to clear the way. (obviously spamming would lead to damage, hence the small clip)

An Autogun line's knockback would leave you far too exposed to be used effectively. Although I think that argument isn't all that great, seeing as effective usually = easier, and easier is something a lot of Vet. players don't want to go for.

@Lug: The blast range of the Valiance is smaller than what I intend, and the knockback too small per shot. Also, this gun is supposed to be weaker, focusing more on player welfare and mob control than actually dealing the damage.

My reason for creating this weapon is mainly that guns fire single, focused shots that have little to no knockback, leaving them vulnerable in mobs. By using guns that have a larger hitbox and more knockback, it leaves them very open, so if not used almost perfectly to kite a mob, they can become overrrun very quickly.

Obviously more skilled gunners make very few such mistakes, but I just thought it'd be a useful gun for them to have.

@Kraanx: Better than have that Zombie that's going to jump you actually land on you. Like afore mentioned, this is a more defensive and tactical gun than DPS.

No sarcasm/offense intended.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:44

#15

Luguiru

Yurp

I understand the concept, but it would essentially be a close range Pulsar with more potential effective knockback by blasting several enemies away regardless of how low its damage may be. Imagine Sudaruska charge, the knockback; now imagine that on a gun which does the job better. Take a buddy, have them take their Sudaruska, teamwork.

Gashunk.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 21:26

#16

Psychorazer

Bump, because I want a wider range of thoughts before I can consider trashing this thread.

@Lug: Honestly, I'll bet a lot of weapons is the game can be summarized by relating them to other weapons 'but can do it better', no offense again. But your thoughts on this matter are valued, so thank you for your input.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 22:13

#17

Iapnez

The only problem I see with

The only problem I see with this gun is that it would be abused so darn much in PvP. You think the toothpick is overpowered? This will change that in an instant. If they integrate a weapon like this, I feel the user, with each shot fired, should take some damage or have a chance to be stunned on any shot fired by it. More knockback than a DA or toothpick while doing an insane amount of damage for a gun... No thanks.

I feel that a gun this powerful should have a risk to compensate the reward, otherwise PvP will be thrown all out of balance. Even PvE would be, in my opinion, though PvE isn't really balanced to begin with.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 22:21

#18

Luguiru

Yurp

My point is that it would not only overlap what we already have but also outclass it or multiple items. Compare Valiance to Pulsar during and after the Roarmulus update. Not many to this day know Valiance has knockback on basic and charge attacks but everyone knows Pulsar has knockback spamming ability. However, Pulsar does not have any knockback unless the bullet travels a short distance to expand while Valiance has a little knockback at all ranges along its bullet path, including point blank range.

The concept of a shotgun alone would be an issue, combining the close range ability of a sword with at least medium range from being a gun while having some area of effect imitating a bomb. Shotguns simply have too much versatility. Look at Doom, shotgun is how to win. I know your concept for it would have low damage but the substantial effective area covered by the knockback would instantly make Valiance even less useful in its last utility, creating the opposite range version of Pulsar.

Why is no one else responding? Do they have pants in their pants? Do they have pants spiders?

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 00:14

#19

Rm-Anami

+/- 1?

As a pure gunner, I couldn't agree more with the main idea of this.
A gun shot that pierces trough enemies and pushes them back would be very interesting, even for non-gunners, in tight places with lots of mobs, when shield bumping is not an option.
The problem is that, with it's current description, it's even more worthless then Iron Slug. A gun with short range should deal at least some nice damage. And since it goes trough enemies, it's fitting that it would deal piercing damage. But not to overpower it, a knockback, chance to stun user, maybe one bullet clip or something would be required, or else it would be total OP and spam on LD.
There were mentioned 2 guns, the Pepperbox and Valiance, as an alternative for close-range gunning. Both have a small knockback on each bulllet. But these guns are much more effective by keeping mobs away than pushing them back when they already are close. Any weapon from Autogun line requires stopping to shoot, which would leave you defenseless against monsters that are already close and Valiance wouldn't help much if you were surrounded by mobs, would it? Because as far as i could understand, the point of this gun is opening a escape route in places crowded with mobs.
But if the single purpose of this gun is pushback, dealing low damage, only normal and no status, then just scrap this idea. A heavy sword would do a much better job, while dealing some nice damage on surrounding mobs.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 02:06

#20

Psychorazer

/facepalm

How did I NOT think about the repercussions of the weapon. SO NOOB AT WEAPONS DEVELOPMENT.

Ok...What say you guys to a High chance of stun with each shot fired, with about a 1/3 chance of stun with the charge attack?

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 06:28

#21

Dagunner

well...

what your suggesion sounds like is a grenade launcher and other things like that, first something like that would either be WAY TO OP or UP. plus everyone knows that a gunner should at least get one sword for close range. the point of a gun in SK is to be long ranged not to be a stick that makes things go boom.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 07:49

#22

Blandaxt

hmm

how about making it a 0 to 1 star weapon with a 2 second reload for each clip fired. the charge attack could just have a .5 extra range added with a low chance of stun. this would decrease the use of it in the tier 3 pvp lockdown arenas but might tuin the pvp tier 1 arenas.

what do u think?

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 12:55

#23

Theopholis

If you want short range weapons with high knockback and damage

Get a sword.

If you want range, get a gun.
If you want area, use a bomb.

Is that really so hard?

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 13:04

#24

Tohru-Adachi

Some people prefer Pure weapons Theo.

So yes, it's really that hard.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 14:56

#25

Psychorazer

"Get a sword. If you want

"Get a sword.

If you want range, get a gun.
If you want area, use a bomb."

Been there done that. Need I really say it? This wasn't intended as a selfish suggestion. I wasn't even thinking of whether I'd use it or not when I made it, I was thinking more whether a GUNNER would use it. Not like I would be able to use it anyway if it came out; I can't play SK right now, or for a long while for that matter.

@Dagunner:
"what your suggesion sounds like is a grenade launcher"

How so? It's not like it's firing stickybombs or something. The only way it'd look like a grenade launcher is if you launched said grenade and it exploded infront of your face.

"the point of a gun in SK is to be long ranged not to be a stick that makes things go boom."

Yes, I know THAT much, been playing SK for over a year already thank you very much. The point of this gun was to give the user some breathing space, and in the case of a gunner, more room to shoot things.

"plus everyone knows that a gunner should at least get one sword for close range"

Don't assume. It's rude, and I don't like it. I know plenty of gunners that can manage fully well and better than me with nothing BUT guns, closed-up box-space or corridor. I'm a hybrid player, I use what I feel I need for the moment.

"WAY TO OP or UP"

Need I really say it again? The object of this weapon IS NOT POWER. It's a tactical weapon to be used from a defensive standpoint. The damage it deals is only to stop it from being completely useless in terms of being a WEAPON.

Where do people keep pulling out 'High damage' and 'Explosions' from? I'm pretty sure the closest words I used were 'Shockwave' and 'Sonic boom'.

The only thing that could ever be 'OP' about it at it's current state is in PvP as nuisance+repelling effect. Damage output-wise, you're better off with a Valiance. It's use revolves more around the EFFECT produced than the damage.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 15:58

#26

Hmmnm

This gun would probably leave

This gun would probably leave Sudaruska and Calibur completely useless. Its regular attack is like an instant sword charge, except without the damage.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 18:20

#27

Theopholis

I understand.

Yes, I know all about wanting pure weapons. I use swords, only swords. If I want to hit things from far away, I DON'T. I walk up to them, and hit them with the weapon type that I choose to carry. Sure, I could get a winmillion (laugh), or use the DA's charge (slow, without expensive UVs). But that's hardly comparable to actually using a gun.

Guns are set up in this game to be ranged, but to keep you out of the fray. There are supposed to be disadvantages to that, just as there are intended disadvantages to swords and bombs.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against gunners being good; I'm against gunners being swordsmen.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 19:18

#28

Dagunner

well

being pure weapons is usually bad if you are using weapon slots and for a gunner and a bomber using pure guns or just bombs can be stupid. people are supposed to use swords for close range not guns and the reasons for not having close range guns is the same as not having throwable bombs.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 19:19

#29

Dagunner

all you need is to have a sword with good knock back.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 21:06

#30

Iapnez

What I'm gathering is that

What I'm gathering is that this idea would be like a sword at close range, but there would be no swing time. It would be INSTANT knockback. No wait.

Might I offer a counter-suggestion to this? Make the shotgun idea still exist, but instead of instant knockback, it does high damage and zero knockback while being close range only. Very high damage without knockback. This is something that no sword can do. I would be fine with this as long it is one shot before reloading.

Mon, 07/02/2012 - 23:09

#31

Softhead

Dagunner, WHAT?

Blast lines, Pepperbox, Valiance.

LOL.

Also, look up Vana, Snarby, RT and JK bomb only runs.

On OP.

How about a single clip gun that does low/no KB, But always does KD. The range is small, it's like the scuttlebot's attack and its charge is a larger range of it.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 09:29

#32

Pepperonius

Just a thought

I personally like the idea, but I do agree with others that no wait for KB is a touch OP. A good idea may be small range med dmg on regular shot, 2/clip and then charge attack with KB (medium). Most gunners operate with some form of CTR reduction anyhow, so i could see this being a good compromise. NO instantaneous knockback, but still a good close up option, and if you find yourself on the verge of being surrounded/trapped, charge it up and bust free.

Also, i think normal damage is a good idea in this instance. High chance of stun i would disagree with, because stun is glitched and the last thing you want is instant-attacks at close range from mobs. Perhaps a 1/3 chance of being stunned on the charge attack yourself though, to ensure that the risk/reward is there.

Wed, 07/04/2012 - 10:15

#33

Derpules

It's a nice idea.

Simple balance measure: add a brief delay before the shot. Not so hard. :P

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 21:38

#34

Psychorazer

Slight edit of the OP to add user-stun on a charge and relative damage. I'm a tad reluctant to make any major changes at this stage, but the discussion is still open if anyone would like to further argue their points.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:12

#35

Orangeo

I'd love a shotgun. Would be

I'd love a shotgun. Would be fun as hell to do a graveyard with one, full deadshot, and a swiftstrike.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 19:55

#36

Mk-Vl

Balance balance balance.

You're on the right track, although when people hear knockback it seems as if they think you are going to have instacharge suda hits. If I may? Change the knockback on the regular shots only to interruption. This way it can be viable in PvE for example syncing T3 kats so you don't get shock locked and in PvP stopping a striker giving you time to pop a shield or change weapon. As long as it holds to magnus shot timings it should be fine. Also charge attacks are supposed to blow scuttlebots halfway to almire.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 21:35

#37

Fehzor

I'd be down with this. I'd like to see such a weapon be to magnus what sudaruska is to the cutter line- huge and slow.

Wed, 07/11/2012 - 23:15

#38

Psychorazer

Added a list at the bottom with the current weapon details, as edited.

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 01:01

#39

Iapnez

The knockback is overpowered.

The knockback is overpowered. Period. End of story.

My final vote is -1. We already have guns for knockback. Valiance, Polaris, and Supernova. We don't need any more than that, unless the mechanic is truly awe-inspiring, which this is not. This is basically "Let's make a gun be a sword, but it LOOKS like a gun!"

Thu, 07/12/2012 - 11:29

#40

Softhead

And Da and Windmillion

Are Sword/Guns.

This reason is as poor as OOO changing the RSS line!

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 04:21

#41

Derpules

@Malsvir-Branea

"The knockback is overpowered. Period. End of story."

Wow. And you know this. . . how, exactly?

Player A: I suggest a high-damage sword!Player B: High damage is overpowered!

Silliness. Knockback can be balanced, like everything else.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 13:49

#42

Blandaxt

this idea.

this idea should keep being developed, it should be shut down because the game hasn't got any kind of close range gun yet. the magnus shoots a slug bullet, not applicable for close range. this gun sounds it has potential to be a a good close range/ mid range weapon.

Fri, 07/13/2012 - 15:56

#43

The-Rawrcake

From someone who has used all

From someone who has used all guns,

The Supernova's charge attack would be the "short range" + good knockback gun attack we are looking for here.

Plus, I have been a gunner for almost 11 months in this game and never experienced an issue that I felt it necessary to use a short ranged attack that works like a sword. You must just be kiting wrong if this is the case.

If that were the case, I would just get a sword. Don't forget about shield bumping too -.-

-1, unecessary gun.

If you want a gun idea that isn't redundant, go see the Snarbolax Gun idea by Incoherrant. We need to have a piercing gun that gives us mobility while firing: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/38341

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 17:07

#44

Psychodestroyer

Bump because I have an Ex-GM that still approves of this.

Also I want to see how the rest of the 'new community' reacts to it.

Fri, 11/23/2012 - 19:54

#45

Hexzyle

I like the idea of implementing new guns, regardless of what it is. Actually, I think a lot of new weapons could be implemented. We haven't had new weapons put in the game since... since never? (Talking about F2P items, and I'm excluding the robo-wrecker because it's only 0*/1*)

Chuck it in, see how it goes, if it's OP then it can be balanced.

Sat, 11/24/2012 - 00:20

#46

Irthan

I don't think it's fair to

I don't think it's fair to compare this weapon's knockback to that of a pulsar or valiance; they both affect whatever they hit, but pulsar and valiance only hit those in front, whereas this weapon is AoE (although in a directional cone). So, normal shot = slight delay + high damage + very low knockback, charged shot = very low damage + AoE knockback.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 08:34

#47

Delardino

Why not just take a sword

Why not just take a sword rather than using a SHORT RANGED GUN with REDUCED Damage :/

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 10:46

#48

Akvar

@OP

I like your idea and support it just the way you have described it, plus it may even have the ability to reduce the OPness of the clones.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 14:02

#49

Psychodestroyer

"Why not just take a sword rather than using a SHORT RANGED GUN with REDUCED Damage :/"

Because some gunners want to use guns. Insisting they take a sword is just presumptuous, rude, and they're probably not going to do it anyway.

Fast-serving high-knockback gun. Is it so hard to realize that this is more than just 'a sword that looks like a gun'? Seriously, even if you had a sword, you could bat at things all you want, but when you're surrounded, you're screwed.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 14:41

#50

Little-Juances

I will totally not make a RSS reference to counter that.

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A short range gun