Currently, it is impossible to interrupt a hammer combo during the second hit (the charging part of the attack). I think OOO should change this to be in line with other swords, it's currently almost impossible to dodge a AA user's hammer, and it's completely impossible to counter because it shows no vulnerabilities to interruption.
Make hammers interruptible
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 10:37
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 15:27
#2
Dodging a Hammer is Easier than Dodging a Toothpick
By this logic, toothpicks should be nerfed too because they are too hard to dodge. In other words, if you want to nerf a less powerful weapon, you should nerf the even more powerful weapon, because the even more powerful weapon will still be an issue. In my opinion though, hammers are just fine as they are.
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 15:37
#3
Yeah
Hammers are very easy to dodge. If you get killed by a hammer, you are very noob or the other person has got some real skillz. There's only a hand full of people I've seen that can use the hammer well.
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:33
#4
"If you get killed by a hammer, you are very noob or the other person has got some real skillz."
I suck at LD, and managed to kill a Guardian, Striker and Recon on the same CP at the same time because I got lucky with my Attack/shield/movement timing sync with my WRH.
Now you make me feel sorry for them. They probably think they're worthless now Q.Q
Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:09
#5
The hammer
Needs razor thin timing and leading to be effective. If you don't predict a striker coming in and hit him first chances are his VH ASI toothpick will interrupt-lock you're attacking. Also it only seems OP because no one wears elemental armour.
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 04:17
#6
With Mk-VI
Wore mad bomber and trolled some t3 LD.
Hammerbores (variation on hammerbro) only got as much damage on me as a toothpick does on clone armor.
So damage is fine, weapon is fine, now get back to your pulsar and toothpick spam while I blast your stuff.
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 11:38
#7
Responses
@ trollingyou
I don't see your argument here; toothpicks only have a limited range and you are hence only vulnerable THERE. A player with a broken shield/booster/cloak has a near impossible time dodging a hammer from ANYWHERE vaugely near the hammer using player, and there is no way to counter the hit since you CANNOT INTERRUPT THE CHARGE. No one seems to be addressing the main point here..
@serell
Hammers are highly dangerous if you know how to use one, or if you're just AA spamming it and the target has no shield/booster/cloak (cloak cancels AA, but you'd have to be cloaked BEFORE the charge). I have seen tons of generally respected players get hit by hammers, you're pretty much insulting half of the game.
@psychorazer
No points I need to address here..
@Mk-VI
I find it hilarious when people say "it's OP because no one wears elemental armor". I happen to wear half vog for ~70% of my matches, and I believe it's OP. Damage isn't what we're talking about, we're talking about the freaking attack pattern. I DO NOT CARE if it does half a pip or all my health; if it's hitting me in a way that is near impossible to avoid, it needs to change. Most players don't actually use the full combo anyway, but those players who AA spam it are the subject here. I think you'll find that it does not require anywhere near as much skill as you believe it does, common tactics (hit and run) take a similar amount of skill to using a toothpick without AA.
@Skold-The-Drac
Don't care about damage, as I already said. Why do people keep bringing this up?
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 11:48
#8
...
AA makes it hella lot easier to dodge. You need to predict where your oponnet is going to hit them, AA will just send you towards them :U
Yes, they can be dangerous if you know how to use them. But they are very hard to use right, only a handful of people can use them well, so I don't see what's so OP :S You don't get it... you don't need to interrupt them, all you gotta do is take a step to the right/left out of the way.
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 13:51
#9
Treat us like trojans.
The attack pattern is just a faster version, really. If you keep moving sideways or backwards, the dash is too slow to hit. With a Flourish you can interrupt the first attack of the hammer (repeatedly, which is really annoying for hammerer's) and you won't have to worry about the dash.
The hammer is actually pretty hard to use. If a player hits you with it, show some respect for their skill, and don't just whine about it being an overpowered weapon. It's strong, but easily made moot by flourish.
Sat, 07/21/2012 - 16:45
#10
CANNOT INTERRUPT THE CHARGE....
You don't need to. Just side step it, the range is extremely narrow. If the guy is using auto aim it'll make it HARDER for him to hit you if you're strafing properly, because he cannot lead his dash in the direction you are moving in. Also, yes, the toothpicks are far more powerful than the hammer, they don't even allow a chance to counter attack, which is far worse than being immune to interrupt for a split second.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 11:09
#11
Actually
The players who AA spam the combo are the ones I'm least worried about. By the time the first swing is done the second one's AA sets to the current position of the enemy. This makes it impossible to lead with the hammer as it pushes back to the enemy's current position. Moving laterally is easy then because the hit range is less than a block wide whilst being fourish blocks long. And you're right, only noobs spam the full combo. Most of the competent players either only do the first hit or both the first and second before shield cancelling.
The best way to use the hammer is to turn off AA so when people start moving laterally you angle your second hit more to the side as in the picture http://i45.tinypic.com/rti1xw.png .
Where you are the red arrow, the enemy is the green and the blue is where the second hit should be aimed. This way the first part of the second hit will miss but the other two will hit carrying the enemy into a place where it is easy to shield cancel and start the next attack.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 12:10
#12
If you can dodge a toothpic you can dodge a hammer.
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 12:36
#13
this seems like an appropriate place to say this
a recon rocket hammer is the most annoying thing ever that is not a toothpick. you don't see it coming...
Sun, 07/22/2012 - 22:59
#14
Ok.... How about this?
Toothpick has a forward lunge right?
Said lunge is incapable of being interrupted, unless colliding against a wall/enemy.
Charge lunge is the exact same.
Toothpick is SUPPOSED to be a very light weapon.
HAMMER is a HAMMER that is HEAVY.
The 2nd attack is a charging motion... uninterruptible due to (logically) the INERTIA.
The charge is a heavy double-thwack, once you put a heavy object in motion INERTIA is going to make sure it stays in motion.
Also, knowledgeable to most any storm trooper, shield cancel toothpicking can readily lock a hammer to the point the first attack becomes impossible. Or, you know... gunning/charging a shock weapon.
@Dmatter
You should see when I'm doing recon hammer+blast bomb... nobody likes it when I pop up out of nowhere, hammer, disappear, reappear and drop a rad of doom. Must be why my armor style (yes, style, in a method of decoy one of my friends copied my loadout) is attacked quickly in t2. But yes, it's an annoying, effective tactic. And sadly, I think it makes recon about as viable as the clones.
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 08:19
#15
--
Okay, I've yet to actually find a real AA spamming hammer player to confirm how hard dodging really is... still trying. t2 LD usually yields more spammers than this..
And as for what skold said, I don't think you are completely following what I mean by interrupt, every hit of the flourish combo can be interrupted, running in to a wall does not interrupt the actual attack. It would totally make sense if you were to keep moving due to inertia, but the actual combo of damage should be interrupted (no explosion when you stop, slight hitstun on stopping, combo gets restarted).
And toothpicks aren't a light weapon, DVS is a light weapon. Toothpicks deal the same damage @28 as brandishes.
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 08:42
#16
Dat distraction
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 09:21
#17
Oh boy
Pepper needs new shorts!
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 13:03
#18
@Skold The Drac
I totally agree! INERTIA and PROPULSION are what makes a rocket hammer uninterruptable! Otherwise it would just be called Hammer. I mean would you really parry someone who has a rocket booster attached to their sword? Awesome idea GMs, maybe some more Anti-Striker Weapons would be nice, like a gun that shoots Freezing Mines.
Mon, 07/23/2012 - 22:53
#19
Like many people have said...
tha hammer is hard to use, and if there are any traps in the charge path at all, if you miss, you'll be taking a lot of damage, I think of the larger group of hammer users to be kamikazes
Tue, 07/24/2012 - 07:22
#20
Why ask the AA hammer spammers?
They are not the ones trying to dodge the attacks, we are dodging the attacks. Even then, dodging the hammers would be easier for them because they use the attack all the time and could dodge it in their sleep. If you want to know about dodging something, don't ask the attackers, ask the one's who are dodging it.
Techncailly speaking, it's the rocket alone that propels the user forward, unlike any other combo where the kngihts actually has to move his arms and hence interruption makes sense.